I'm having trouble keeping Kaysee in her crate without barking and howling when I leave her alone.

She has no problem with being in the crate while I'm in the room with her and while she's sleeping. I just can't control her barking while she's in the crate. Any suggestions?

10/16/2008 1:15:36 PM

maybe get one of those dog pheromone plug-in things...? i dunno

10/16/2008 1:17:15 PM

I know crate training is quite in-fashion right now, but i don't think that it's a must for a new dog. I'm sure other people who have successfully crate-train their dogs will give you tips on how to get her to get used to it, or that it's better for them in the end, but if you've tried for a while and it's clear to you that the dog is not liking it, then I say, why force it?

As long as you are vigilant about taking her outside multiple times a day, before bed, and first thing in the morning, then why bother with the crate? You can still house-break them without a crate, and if that works for you, then who cares where they sleep? Get a doggy-bed or something.

---
also, as I read your post again, you said that she is fine when you are in the room and when she is sleeping. So..... if she is fine for those activities, when why is she in the crate for the rest of the time? "Crate training" doesn't mean leaving your dog in a crate 22 hours of the day

10/16/2008 1:23:07 PM

where do you keep the crate? I had a hell of a time getting my dog crate trained in the beginning. I put his crate in the kitchen since it was lenoleum, and I figured if he peed or shit it would be easy to clean up. Well, he would cry and howl so loud that the neighbors upstairs called animal control. One day I had the bright idea to move his crate into the bedroom, and immediately it stopped. Also, put something of yours in there when you leave, like an old shirt or something. It will have your scent on it and help keep her calm.

Quote :

"I know crate training is quite in-fashion right now, but i don't think that it's a must for a new dog."

If you are a renter, it is absolutely a must. You can't be with your dog 24 hours a day, especially if you are a student and/or you work. And when you are away, is when they get bored and chew shit up. Last thing you want is to have to lose your deposit and shell out extra money on top of that because your puppy destroyed the place.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 1:37 PM. Reason : a]

10/16/2008 1:35:02 PM

^^I crate train because I live in an apartment that my roommates don't do their best to keep puppy proof. I don't leave her in the crate for 22 hours a day...5 hours at at time at the most while I'm in class and I work. She is out plenty. I try to take her to the dog park once a day.

^I will put my shirt in there...I used to keep it there but I forgot to put it back there when I cleaned out her crate.

10/16/2008 1:38:13 PM

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10/16/2008 1:38:30 PM

^^ and also, my vet recommended dramamine if my dog got too out of control with the separation anxiety.

10/16/2008 1:40:49 PM

^that is a great idea....any clue on dosage?

10/16/2008 1:42:13 PM

10/16/2008 1:42:54 PM

I wiped her down with a lavender scent and laid the scent next to her crate to calm her. I took her out and also gave her some mental training.

10/16/2008 1:44:23 PM

Quote :

"that is a great idea....any clue on dosage"

2mg per pound of dog

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 1:47 PM. Reason : a]

10/16/2008 1:45:01 PM

It sounds like your dog is associating the crate with you being gone for long periods (work maybe?).

1) Leave the dog alone in the crate for short time periods 5 min. or so and then build up.. If the dog stays quiet, come back with a treat and reward. This will help the dog slowly learn that you aren't always leaving for long periods

2) I also had success putting a blanket over the crate. When the dog would whine or bark, I banged a pan or made some sort of loud, startling noise. The dog didn't like it, and learned quickly that if they stayed quiet, they didn't have to hear the noise.

Even now, I feed both my dogs in their crates and I regularly give them treats in their crates so they associate it being a good place. You could also leave a toy or other chew thing in the crate so they don't get as bored while you are gone. My dogs love Nylabones, for example.

10/16/2008 1:45:33 PM

She's around 40 lbs.

I don't think she associates the crate with being alone...because I've spent a lot of time with her while she's in the crate too. She also has a huge bone

10/16/2008 1:46:57 PM

^ check my edit. so you would want to give your dog 80mg.

10/16/2008 1:48:11 PM

Well, there is some sort of separation anxiety going on if she barks and howls when you leave her alone

10/16/2008 1:48:50 PM

I never kept Sabrina in a crate when I was at home, unless I was going to bed. I only put her in the crate when I was away from the house. When I was home, I just made sure to take her out at regular time intervals, and tried to keep it at the same time everyday.

I was always really positive when I put Sabrina in her crate. Rubbing her and talking with a happy tone of "go to your crate!," and rubbed her while saying "good girl!" when she got inside. Sabrina would whine and howl when I first put her in there, but as soon as she was in and I closed that door I would ignore her. She would eventually stop before I left and just go to sleep while I was gone. I left her plenty of toys to play with when she was in the crate. She eventually realized that when I put her in the crate this is a safe place and it wasn't a permanent thing. It got to the point all I would have to say is "Go to your crate!" and she would trot on in.

Keeping Sabrina in a crate until she was about 8 months prevented me from coming home to not only pee or shit on the floor, but also chewed up items. As she got older, I started leaving her out of the crate if I went to run a quick errand. I built up the time she spent out of it while I was away, and weened her off the crate completely. Up until a year ago, I still had the crate, but just left the door open for her to go in when she wanted. It became "her den" versus her crate. Eventually it took up too much room in the den so we moved it...she stopped using it after that.

Just give it time. You just got her, and it can be very frustrating at first. If she's still howling after a month, then it's time to think of something else. But keep doing what you're doing now...she, and you, will get the hang of it.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 1:51:29 PM

^ yep. it's all about repetition. eventually she will learn that you are not leaving for good and that you are coming back.

10/16/2008 2:02:59 PM

crate training is cruel. you don't ever see caesar milan doing it do you?

10/16/2008 2:23:19 PM

^ no, but I have sure as hell seen Caesar choke the shit out of some dogs. Plus, I don't think I have ever seen him deal with puppies, but then again I don't watch the show much

10/16/2008 2:25:15 PM

Crate training is cruel huh? How exactly is it cruel? Having an untrained animal that could potentially get injured or tear your place up isnt I guess.



I trained my dog using a crate, worked fantastic. But it also didnt happen over night.

I think part of the problem people have with crate training is that they dont have the patience to do it properly. Dumbasses think that the dog will be trained in far shorter time than it actually takes. It takes a while.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 2:42 PM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 2:39:17 PM

it took me a long time to get over a similar problem. here are some things I did that I found worked for me.

I used to have the crate where she could see me coming and going. That was a mistake. She would cry everytime I left, so I moved the crate into the bedroom where she didn't know exactly when I was leaving the house. I also had some success partially covering the crate with a blanket. I draped it over the crate so she would have to lay down in order to peer out. I figured she would be less likely to scream laying down and she likes to be able to see out. That worked fairly well but not always.

From my trainer: don't ever use the crate as punishment. You can probably figure the reasoning in that. Also, try to get your dog to go into the crate on its own and associate a word with it like 'go crate' or something. Use treats. I used to leave my dog with a Kong with some peanut butter in it and she wouldn't care if I left. My dog also seemed to like it better when I put a pad in there instead of just being on the plastic crate floor.

Finally, if you can, I found that keeping a routine helped my dog get more comfortable with the crate faster. I take my dog out to do her business, then bring her in and feed her. I get ready for work while she eats. Then I take her back out for a short walk and come back in, get her a treat and put her in her crate. I gotta get up a little earlier to tend to the dog but it works. It took a while, but now at the end of the routine she just prances right on in and all I have to do is shut the crate door and leave.

10/16/2008 4:31:30 PM

^ good advice. I also made sure that I gave my dog a treat every time he got in the crate. Also I had a little thing I would say every time like "You be a good boy, I'll be right back". I said it EVERY time. Again, repetition is the key to getting them used to the fact that you are coming back.

10/16/2008 4:39:51 PM

^^agreed.

an aside...i'm really looking forward to our play date on sunday! i think we should take Sabrina and Kaysee to Lake Johnson since 'brina is a dog park party pooper

10/16/2008 4:46:06 PM

Yeah I think her biggest problem is seperation anxiety.

She already knows that when I say "go to bed" it means go to her crate.

I'm gonna try with putting a blanket over her crate now and see how that works. I hate to drug her right now. If she seems to still have this problem for a long time then I may try it. She goes back to the vet in two weeks for a booster, I'll ask him if there is still a problem.

Thanks for the great advice guys.

^good Idea

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 6:58 PM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 6:54:27 PM

I am telling you the no bark collar works wonders.

The dog will only bark once. It will get used to sleeping in the crate if you consistently make it sleep and take naps in there. Eventually the dog will get ingrained in it's mind that "crate=go to sleep" instead of "crate=boring, bark to get out".

10/16/2008 7:00:32 PM

Well I do make her sleep and take naps in there and shut the door while she's doing that.

I don't think it's a problem of her not liking her crate. Sometimes when I tell her no she will go in there like she's wanting to go somewhere she won't get in trouble.

I will also put her in there to hang out while I'm sitting with her in the living room so she doesn't associate it with just being alone. I think she did pretty good today while I was at work, she didn't bark to long after I left. I will stand outside the door and listen.

I read somewhere that if I put her in the crate 10 mins before I leave...and then just ignore her while I sit and watch tv then get up and leave with out paying her any attention can help.

I also keep her toys in her crate so that she knows to go there to get good stuff. I also will randomly put treats in there when she isn't looking so that she will be surprised by good things in there. And I try to keep a rotation on her toys so she won't get bored with the same ones.

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 7:08 PM. Reason : ]

10/16/2008 7:04:49 PM

if you put her in her crate and she cries, then you go to make sure she's ok, you're taking a step forward and two backwards. unless it becomes a problem with your neighbors, let her get it out. I have a beagle mix(biigggggggg barkers) and she cried for the first week or so but now the only time she ever whines is when she needs to go outside to use the bathroom. Just make sure you don't go back when she whines, because she'll associate whining with you coming back.

10/16/2008 7:10:12 PM

We were fostering a puppy here a few weeks ago, it took a good five days before he gave up barking in the crate. The collar allowed us to get sleep, which also allows us to keep rescuing dogs.

The first few nights it went like this.

1) dog goes in crate
2) dog barks and keeps everyone awake
3) no bark collar is hung on side of crate by me
3) dog barks once, citronella squirts next to crate
4) dog goes to sleep

the rest went like this

1) dog goes in crate
2) dog goes to sleep

I never had the patience to crate train my personal dog (who is also a beagle mix) because she would not stop barking. She also sucessfully ruined pretty much every inch of carpet in my house as a result and took way longer to house break. She had way to many opportunities to sneak away and go on the floor because she always had free reign over the house.

This was before I knew about the bark collars. The reason I finally invested in a collar was basically out of respect for my neighbor because my dog never tires of barking and will not stop. Since I have had it she has learned that incessant barking is not gonna get her anything she wants, it will only get her a squirt of that stuff. She does not bark nearly as bad when she is outside now even if the collar is off.

The collar was $50 but was well worth it when you factor how much it has improved the dog-human relations at my house.

I did not used to agree with crate training either but after what I went through training Mollie I decided it was worth revisiting. Dogs have a "den mentality" in the wild. They will dig small caves or dens under trees or anywhere they can that will give them a sense of safety where they sleep. The last thing a wild dog wants to do is be caught snoozing out in the open at night.

The domesticated dog will consider the crate its "den" if you can get past the barking and whining and the dogs fear of being away from you. It is those first few days that are the hardest when the dog will not let anyone sleep, the bark collar will take care of that for you.

10/16/2008 7:31:26 PM

I agree with the treat in the crate also, just make sure you're not using the crate as punishment.

10/16/2008 7:43:03 PM

it's separation anxiety. and sadly, the only way she will get over it is with continual separation

10/16/2008 8:49:28 PM

yeah I know it's the seperation anxiety. I feel bad for my roommates though. However the roomate that seems to care the most is the one that owns the cat that tore up my chairs that I just refinished. So it doesn't bother me that bad.

10/16/2008 9:15:50 PM

yeah I know it's the seperation anxiety. I feel bad for my roommates though. However the roomate that seems to care the most is the one that owns the cat that tore up my chairs that I just refinished. So it doesn't bother me that bad.

10/16/2008 9:15:50 PM

yeah I know it's the seperation anxiety. I feel bad for my roommates though. However the roomate that seems to care the most is the one that owns the cat that tore up my chairs that I just refinished. So it doesn't bother me that bad.

10/16/2008 9:16:12 PM

yeah I know it's the seperation anxiety. I feel bad for my roommates though. However the roomate that seems to care the most is the one that owns the cat that tore up my chairs that I just refinished. So it doesn't bother me that bad.

10/16/2008 9:24:27 PM

yeah I know it's the seperation anxiety. I feel bad for my roommates though. However the roomate that seems to care the most is the one that owns the cat that tore up my chairs that I just refinished. So it doesn't bother me that bad.

10/17/2008 12:19:26 AM

yeah I know it's the seperation anxiety. I feel bad for my roommates though. However the roomate that seems to care the most is the one that owns the cat that tore up my chairs that I just refinished. So it doesn't bother me that bad.

10/17/2008 1:49:10 PM

We crate trained with treats. Every time we left, they'd get a treat.

Works like a charm. Promise. She can't howl with a snout full of dog biscut

10/17/2008 2:29:29 PM

Some dogs just never take to a crate.

We crated our boxer for a while, but he would whine, howl and drool like crazy while he was in there. In order to get him in the crate, i would physically have to pick him up and cram him in there and shut the door before he ran back out. Eventually he got to where he could be left out of the crate and could hold it for 8-10 hours without having to pee or shit.

Our brittany not only submitted to the crate, but she actually likes it. She was a rescue, and we had her crate trained in a few days. After two weeks, all I have to do is say "Sydney, Go home" and she'll run into her crate. no hassle or fuss. Sometimes, she'll just go in there on her own and just chill.

I don't know, i think some dogs just have a personality such that they do not like to be crated. I'm no expert, this is just my own experience.

10/17/2008 2:41:17 PM

She just woke up from a nap in her crate and starting barking and crying to get out. But I ignored it until she stopped. Then like 5 mins after being quiet and good I started praising her and told her she's such a good girl. When I did that she looked up at me like "fuck you bitch just let me out" and I ignored it. Haha...I guess I'll let her out now and see if she has to poop.

10/17/2008 9:06:14 PM

Sounds like separation anxiety. Hide treats in there so that there's something exciting about being in the crate. DO NOT give her any attention whatsoever for barking/howling when you put her in the crate, if you do she's just training you instead of the other way around. I've heard before that if your dog has separation anxiety you should leave them in their crate and leave and come back into the room a bunch of times so that they get the idea that you're not permanently leaving. When you leave or when you get home do not give the dog a bunch of attention - I know it's hard, but when you get home don't immediately run up to the crate and act like it's a big deal that you're home. You need to essentially ignore the dog for a few minutes.

Crate training is the most effective way of potty training - don't give up! It wouldn't be any better if you left her in the house not in the crate, she'd just be tearing you stuff up and using the bathroom everywhere. If it's separation anxiety (likely) the problem isn't the crate, it's that you're leaving and she doesn't trust that you're coming back.

10/17/2008 10:24:56 PM

I might work on doing that today. It's a saturday so it won't be as big of a deal if there is barking.

10/18/2008 9:23:16 AM

squirt gun

10/18/2008 9:30:36 AM

Got a shock collar today. Saps wanted to cry when she got shocked, but I tried to tell him that the reason she jumped and welped is cause it scared her since it was the first time she got shocked from it.

10/18/2008 5:34:26 PM

^ there you go

If anyone says you are being mean remind them that its just a static shock no stronger than you get trying to turn on light switches sometimes.

10/18/2008 5:55:35 PM

get a dog muzzle...its not cruel and inhumane at all...sure some hippy douche will try to say it is though

10/18/2008 7:06:32 PM

IMO muzzles should be used for aggressive dogs, not to stop them from making noise.

10/18/2008 9:42:25 PM