Please help--Fight Tuition Increases

submitted by doozer511 on Monday, October 20 2003 at 6:40 PM

This Thursday, an important meeting of the NCSU Tuition Taskforce will be held. Last week, the Tuition Taskforce at UNC Chapel Hill approved a $300 increase each yr for the next 3 yrs. Typically NCSU and UNCCH keep similar tuition rates. Meaning that if we do not give them a reason to act otherwise, the NCSU Tuition Taskforce could vote this week to do the same--something that the students at NCSU cannot afford to let happen.

At the beginning of this year, I explained to you all about a project, www.personalstories.org. The goal is to get 100 personal stories on students experiences with tuition increases & use these stories in our argument against these increases. Thus far, I have 22 stories. Now granted, I have 20 very incredible mind-blowing stories...but, these alone cannot make the difference for students.

PLEASE over the next couple days find some time to tell all of your friends about the Personal Stories project. Let's work together to try to get NCSUs 100 stories by Wednesday night, so that we can present them to the Tuition Taskforce on Thursday. I believe at this point it will be one of the few opportunities students will have to stop the tuition increases.

Here are a few off the top of my head (but feel free to add your own):
-Chalk the website, www.personalstories.org, on the brickyard or paint it in the tunnel
-Put it on your AIM away message & buddy info
-IM chain to all your friends
-Email all the your listserves & friends

posted by C-Mack on Monday, October 20 2003 at 7:07 PM

JACK IT UP!

10/20/2003 7:09:16 PM

now there's plenty of stories out there people, and each one counts. make your voice heard. now.

10/20/2003 8:09:01 PM

please?

10/20/2003 9:04:15 PM

and how do we propose taht we keep up with educating the students?

nothing costs the same as it did last year, and it is asinine to assume that education costs the same. Give me back the sections, the professors, the classes and I will gladly pay more in tuition costs.

10/20/2003 9:47:43 PM

Damn guys, with all the bitching and moaning on TWW, there have got to be more people who have stories. I submitted mine already.

10/20/2003 10:29:13 PM

http://www.personalstories.org

Submitted mine already too...

It's easy and worth it folks

props to Amanda for all tireless work she does

10/20/2003 11:54:44 PM

oh yeah, you guys need to understand that funding education is a zero-sum game.

so quit trying to make my graduating on time goal impossible and accept the reality

[Edited on October 21, 2003 at 1:47 AM. Reason : .]

10/21/2003 1:46:47 AM

Will they ever stop with the damn tuition increases?!?

10/21/2003 4:06:30 AM

nutsmackr, I think you have a misinformed opinion on how this whole thing works.

A tuition increase will not restore any of your class sections--that's not the administration's priority here.

10/21/2003 6:45:15 AM

Quote :

"nothing costs the same as it did last year, and it is asinine to assume that education costs the same."

Yeah it's called inflation...currently around 2.5% in the US (although granted it is on the rise). http://www.gpec.org/InfoCenter/Topics/Economy/USInflation.html

Now lets see if I look at this...http://www7.acs.ncsu.edu/cashier/Tuition/undergradtuition2003-2004.htm

I see that current tuition rates for full time in-state undergrads are around $1500...that's about a twenty percent increase! Even for out of Staters (which make up a minority) its still 3.5% (which is still higher than 2.5%)

Oh wait...maybe by education costing more now you mean that NC State lags behind in the salaries it pays for quality professors and so they will be attracted away to other schools so we must needs pay them more. Hmmmm...lets see depressed economy and there are currently only two States in the Union not going through budget difficulties similar to North Carolina...hmmm, I find it hard to believe that any of these States will be able to offer Proffessors all that much more than we can. That leaves private Universities who even in the States highest boom years we couldn't possibly hope to compete with in the salaries we offer. So I hate to break it to you but the professors that are leaving (which is actually very few) would have left anyways for the most part no matter what the budget situation was or how much we increased tuition.

Quote :

"Give me back the sections, the professors, the classes and I will gladly pay more in tuition costs."

There has been an 80% increase in tuition rates over the last four years (I think that's a conservative estimate, not an exaggeration, I'm sure someone will correct me), the same years that the cutting of sections and classes has become a problem for students. Hmmmm...now maybe I'm missing something but if you're supposing that paying more in tuition means that it will keep these things from happening, how exactly do you reconcile those facts?


[Edited on October 21, 2003 at 7:56 AM. Reason : .]

10/21/2003 7:45:50 AM

but nutsmackr, while i disagree with your reasoning on tuition increases (see above arguments from natalie and dan), i do agree that students are facing major problems graduating and obtaining the classes they need due to budget cuts. so, if you are one of those students, feel free to submit your personal story on budget cuts at http://www.personalstories.org. thanks.

10/21/2003 8:54:36 AM

I think a tuition increase can be a good thing. Hell most of the professors didnt even see a raise this year. yea itll suck, yea youll pay more money, but that mony just dosent go to making Fox bling bling, it updates labs, buys paper for printers, maitains copiers and a whole lot of other stuff.
You want less tuition increase, then dont increase my tuition 300 bux and use 100 of it to pay for financial aid students an others that pay no at all, give em a little burn raise EVERYONES tuition 200 bux.

[Edited on October 21, 2003 at 10:07 AM. Reason : dd]

10/21/2003 9:58:55 AM

and Hadrian, what was the tuition increase from 5 years ago. Maybe they have to adjust to inflation, likewise, there are more reasons for the rise than just inflation, better lab equipment, buildings etc. Those all work into the equation.

And do not give me this "Free as possilbe shit" hate to break it to you, but $7000 is cheap for education. if you are against the increases, find some other means of paying for it then, because all I see now is an absents of any idea on how to pay for education.

10/21/2003 10:08:03 AM

Quote :

"I think a tuition increase can be a good thing. Hell most of the professors didnt even see a raise this year."

um yeah, not very many people did get raises last year...its called a recession.

Quote :

"it updates labs, buys paper for printers, maitains copiers and a whole lot of other stuff."

um...actually, no it doesn't. Very little of your tuition money goes for any of those things. You pay fees for that...check it out:
http://www7.acs.ncsu.edu/cashier/Tuition/tuitionexplanation2003-2004.html

Thanks I realize it doesn't go to making the Chancellor "bling bling" largely it goes to try and plug holes in the constant cuts the General Assembly makes...which is a losing battle.

Quote :

"and Hadrian, what was the tuition increase from 5 years ago. Maybe they have to adjust to inflation, likewise, there are more reasons for the rise than just inflation, better lab equipment, buildings etc. Those all work into the equation."

I hate to break it to you but your tuition is more or less automatically increased to adjust for inflation based on the Higher Education Price index which is generally only a couple % higher than CPI and takes into account better lab equipment and building maintenance. An actual tuition increase that's initiated by the BOG or BOT is on top of that.

Quote :

"if you are against the increases, find some other means of paying for it then, because all I see now is an absents of any idea on how to pay for education."

Just because you have an absence of ideas doesn't mean there is one. There are a host of thing that could be done centered largely around the idea that the GA stop passing the buck down the University Administration, be proactive leaders, and actually respond to the people they're supposed to represent. Part of that begins with people trying to hold them accountable, such as the efforts of Amanda with things like the http://www.personalstories.org./ project and other efforts.

I could tell you some solutions but those are just my personal opinion and I don't think this issue should be torn apart based on differences in personal politics. Basically I think tuition increases are the least efficient way for Public Higher Education to be funded...so if you think that there is a problem in the funding of higher education....it should be the last thing you do not the first.

Any other points I'd make are pretty well summed up here: http://www.personalstories.org./facts.php

[Edited on October 21, 2003 at 10:53 AM. Reason : blah]

10/21/2003 10:51:25 AM

nutsmackr, show me one tuition increase that goes to better lab equipment and buildings, etc. You can't because they don't exist.

Quote :

"AntecK7: it updates labs, buys paper for printers, maitains copiers and a whole lot of other stuff."

As hadrian pointed out, tuition doesn't go to pay for this kind of stuff...they are funded by both state appropriations and student fees.

Here's the real picture: Tuition increases are the least efficient way for Public Higher Education to be funded.

hadrian's point is 100 percent accurate.

10/21/2003 11:33:24 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=us&cat=education

10/21/2003 5:32:35 PM

From all of the people bitchinga bout tuition increases, I have yet to see anywhere they propose we make up for the deficit. Furthermore, you do not have some right to have dirt cheap education. The fact remains that the state cannot afford to finance all of the institutions that it controls through tax dollars and tuition increases are necessary to fund that.

Furthermore, this is not a problem that is centered in North Carolina, this is systemic across America. Last fall, Arizona had tuition increases in the neighborhood of 150%, I don't think $300 comes anywhere near that. ANd to the poeple saying tuition increases do not bring back sections, or faculty, or classes, then where the fuck do they go. THey just don't go into some sort of secret black ops fund.

10/21/2003 5:57:44 PM

Quote :

"I realize it doesn't go to making the Chancellor "bling bling" largely it goes to try and plug holes in the constant cuts the General Assembly makes...which is a losing battle. "

10/21/2003 6:08:23 PM

I propose we make up the spending by eliminating all these corporate tax loopholes that allow corporatations to get away with not paying taxes in the state, while not providing additional jobs for North Carolinians. Like the Nabisco, who got a tax break across the board when they proposed building an additional facility in Garner...and surprise, surprise....they never built the damn thing.

Quote :

"nutsmackr: The fact remains that the state cannot afford to finance all of the institutions that it controls through tax dollars and tuition increases are necessary to fund that....ANd to the poeple saying tuition increases do not bring back sections, or faculty, or classes, then where the fuck do they go. THey just don't go into some sort of secret black ops fund. "

I think you're missing the point. There's no way that tuition dollars can recoup what we've lost in budget cuts. The university received in FY 2002 $328,187,101 in state appropriations, down $25 million from the previous fiscal year (that's about 1/3 of what we get in tuition now). Do you have any understanding of what kind of tuition increase it would take to recoup that money? It's just not feasible. Tuition increases have not gone to support increases in class sections because, quite simply, there isn't enough money there.

Faculty salaries, graduate student stipends, etc...that's where the money goes.

Quote :

"nutsmackr:Last fall, Arizona had tuition increases in the neighborhood of 150%, I don't think $300 comes anywhere near that. "

You're being melodramatic. Lord--c'mon nutsmackr, at least try and come up with a moderately plausible argument. 150 percent? Try 39 percent.

http://www.abor.asu.edu/1_the_regents/reports_factbook/financial/6_tuitionhist.htm

[Edited on October 21, 2003 at 6:39 PM. Reason : user tag]

10/21/2003 6:38:56 PM

No matter how they divy it up, money in the school is money in teh school, they can say it goes to xyz, but then they can divert some money from xyz to zyx ectra. Yea it sucks but soemtimes increases are necessairy.

10/21/2003 9:21:33 PM

sorry, it wasn't arizona, but one state did have a 150% increase. Furthermore, even if it is only 1/3, that is still money going into the school and wouldn't be eitherway.

maybe in a socialist dream world we could have free education, but taht is not going to happen, so accept that fact and help pay for teh schooling, instead of trying to pass the bill onto the legislature, without in the meantime fucking up my education.

10/21/2003 10:45:47 PM

I don't think anyone's asking for a free education.

I think we're just asking for higher education to be "practicably" accessible, which is guaranteed by the Constitution of the state.

An increase of the magnitude proposed by UNC and currently being considered by NC State is far from practical.

hadrian, you're the bestest.

[Edited on October 22, 2003 at 7:01 AM. Reason : fix]

10/22/2003 7:01:29 AM

What would this increase go to? If it went to hiring more professors and having more classes then I'm all for it. I have a 3.75 GPA and will not be able to get into Biomedical Engineering because they have met there cap for students If raising tuition would open more spaces I say go for it.

10/23/2003 2:50:21 PM