I'm so mad even though I've known for at least 10 years. I wouldn't be as mad if it didn't all come out. It feels a lot better when you're labeled as a troll or conspiracy theorist and theres no absolute facts to back up the conspiracy but when its there in plain sight and still no one does anything, you really lose your mind.

18 years of this bullshit. Trump, Obama, and Bush are all culpable. American people should be in the streets. Everyone involved should be investigated and probably locked up. The Pentagon should be audited and completely drained.

None of those things will happen. Liberals won't even see anything because Obama's hands are dirty. Of course the media isn't making this the top story so theres no one to force feed this like they do less important things. Just distract distract distract. Trump Trump Trump.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/explosive-investigative-report-says-u-s-government-misled-public-on-war-in-afghanistan

Quote :

"They were ordered to spend spend spend as much as they could as fast as they could"

No one's going to jail and the war goes on because Cherokee still thinks its making us safe.

and of course you have to buy wapo to get the full story or even share the link. we even have to get fucked over to read about how we get fucked over.

12/10/2019 1:34:49 AM

Perhaps this lends a little bit of credence as to why Trump wants to get out of the Middle East.

12/10/2019 9:40:32 AM

That's really what you think?

12/10/2019 10:04:01 AM

Just a trillion?

12/10/2019 10:09:06 AM

Look, all actions Trump takes, or the motivation behind them, has to be on Hitler-level evil. Even a blind monkey can bowl an occasional strike. Not like it makes him redeemable, but that's a quagmire we need to leave behind.

12/10/2019 10:14:55 AM

Except he has actually brought MORE troops to the Middle East at large.

You’d think by the year of our lord 2019 people would learn to look at what Trump DOES and not what he SAYS.

Quote :

" Liberals won't even see anything because Obama's hands are dirty"

This is such a weird strawman. I’m sure there are but I don’t know many liberals on here who have even tacitly supported Obama’s foreign policy.

[Edited on December 10, 2019 at 10:23 AM. Reason : X]

12/10/2019 10:22:12 AM

The liberal stance to every war or conflict the US involves itself in:

"It's a tricky situation and the president is doing his best."
"He had to clean up the mess [previous president] made."
"We can't just leave, there would be a power vacuum. The terrorists, or worse, Russia, would gain power in the region."

And yet, every time, the truth comes out a decade or two later that actually we were doing horrible things, intentionally committing massacres, torturing and executing dissidents (or funding paramilitary organizations to do it), selling off resources to multinationals at bargain bin prices, stealing tax money, etc.

But the people who call this out every time, while it's happening, are considered irrational and un-serious. Wonder what we'll learn about Syria in 10 years?

12/10/2019 11:15:53 AM

Well learn we gave the green light for syria and Turkey to slaughter a lot of people

12/10/2019 11:54:59 AM

We'll find that the US government never intended to remain allied with them long term and it was purely a relationship of convenience. In fact, we should already realize this, because the CIA considers the PKK to be a terrorist organization and the PYD is an offshoot of that organization.

As with almost everywhere else, the Kurdish and Syrian people would have been far better off without our "help".

[Edited on December 10, 2019 at 2:02 PM. Reason : .]

12/10/2019 2:02:06 PM

they would have been better off without us ever getting into the area, sure, but you can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. us abandoning them did not make them better.

12/10/2019 2:09:12 PM

Its almost as if being in NATO creates an unnecessary conflict of interest with respect to Turkey.

12/10/2019 2:23:38 PM

We should have let the Kurds negotiate an agreement with the Syrian government, which is what they wanted to do. Obv the Trump administration wouldn’t allow this, so it left them to quickly scrap one together after they were already abandoned.

But the point is we never should have been there, and it could have been prevented had liberals and centrists opposed the intervention.

12/10/2019 2:29:13 PM

the bare minimum would have been a coordinated withdrawal that was coordinated in advance with the kurds and as little as possible should have been publicized. that's the minimum

it's weird that the far left can't even criticize trump for announcing on twitter a quick withdrawal because turkey asked him too and fucking them over and leaving everyone in the command chain confused

[Edited on December 10, 2019 at 2:49 PM. Reason : horseshoe theory confirmed!]

12/10/2019 2:47:47 PM

Can we stop equating the far left with Jimmy Dore-ites? They’re in the minority compared to all of the Marxists, DemSocs, and anarchists who actually read and understand the material situation in Rojava.

12/10/2019 2:52:07 PM

I just did criticize Trump and essentially agree with what you’re saying so if you’re talking about me idk what to tell you

12/10/2019 2:53:39 PM

Wrong thread

[Edited on December 10, 2019 at 3:36 PM. Reason : ]

12/10/2019 3:08:32 PM

The problem isn't being able to criticize Trump. The problem is that criticizing Trump fails to acknowledge that the scope of the problem is far wider the Trump. Bush, Obama, and Trump have all been part of this mess and criticizing us being there in the first place needs to take priority over criticizing the logistics around any form of pulling out.

All three presidents have been duped into staying in these wars and or expanding them by the so called experts at the Pentagon. This is further evidence that all of these career folks at the state dept and pentagon need to be dismissed.

So no, we will not let you just blame any problem associated with Syria on Trump because he should have never inherited it in the first place and if you don't want the president doing favors for Turkey, you should be pushing for our exit from NATO. Trump did what allies do.

12/10/2019 3:33:12 PM

You should talk to some of the leftist volunteers who were fighting in Syria

12/10/2019 6:08:10 PM

Quote :

"I'm so mad even though I've known for at least 10 years."

12/10/2019 10:48:06 PM

Quote :

" Perhaps this lends a little bit of credence as to why Trump wants to get out of the Middle East."

Last I saw he’s more than doubled the amount of troops there... he wanted to sell nukes to Saudi Arabia. Between the policy on Syria and Iran it seems things are way less stable. I get trump says he wants to get out but he’s doing the exact opposite...

12/11/2019 1:04:10 AM

I don’t feel lied to about Afghanistan. We’ve always known it was a boondoggle. We knew under Bush the Taliban wasn’t a nation state that could be defeated.

The American public just sucks when it comes to a realistic understanding of what the military is good for and the GOP is doubly bad. We think we can drop some bombs and leave and guarantee there’s no more terrorists. Trump’s campaign was that we weren’t dropping big enough bombs on enough families.

People don’t want to hear that so-called terrorism isn’t random but in fact a response to our foreign policy. They don’t want to hear that diplomacy and foreign aid do more to keep us safe than a soldier with a gun.

The Iran Nuclear deal was a historic triumph of foreign policy as an alternative to war so I give Obama huge credit for trying to right the wrongs of the past with this.

The election of trump is another huge boondoggle that we’re not going to be able to neatly undo too. I don’t know what costs we will have paid for this 15 years from now...

[Edited on December 11, 2019 at 1:21 AM. Reason : ]

12/11/2019 1:17:47 AM

Quote :

"We’ve always known it was a boondoggle. We knew under Bush the Taliban wasn’t a nation state that could be defeated."

Bush's approval rating was 90% when he declared war in Afghanistan, slowly dropped to 60% by 2003, then jumped up to 70% again when he declared war in Iraq.

12/11/2019 9:52:19 AM

^
Yeah but plenty of people including Ron Paul were calling out the policy.

Wasn’t one of Obama’s mini scandals when his pastor was recorded saying “the chickens came home to roost”? Americans collectively don’t like to hear this.

12/11/2019 4:17:01 PM

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN OUT IN THE OPEN

Quote :

"He also said al Qaeda has found it "easy for us to provoke and bait this administration." "All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al Qaeda, in order to make generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses without their achieving anything of note other than some benefits for their private corporations," bin Laden said."

- Osama bin Laden, Two-thousand fucking four.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/

12/11/2019 4:28:12 PM

^^
Lol I didn't realize it at the time but that was a reference to Ward Churchill's amazing essay blaming the US for 9/11

https://cryptome.org/ward-churchill.htm

12/11/2019 4:46:24 PM