https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/04/stray-thoughts-meritocracy-racist-cartoons-betsy-devos-leftist-lincoln
10/11/2018 6:23:59 PM
10/11/2018 8:09:58 PM
Not for most of the US
10/11/2018 8:14:38 PM
This is exactly true. So what?
10/12/2018 10:18:04 AM
How do you propose we fix the problem?
10/12/2018 10:52:39 AM
Argument in the OP is pretty airtight, but it’s also the absolute most strict definition of a meritocracy I’ve ever seen.Achieving Absolute 100% equality of opportunity and circumstances? Why not loosen the definition to something more like “the state provides a base state of opportunity and means coupled with a societal worldview change that abhors elitism.”Suddenly it’s achievable and many would agree it’s a direction we should move toward. It seems like the strict definition is an effort to ignore a good idea because it’s not perfectly achievable.
10/12/2018 7:01:36 PM
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/09/brett-kavanaugh-banality-elites-meritocracy
10/12/2018 10:15:04 PM
^^,^^^^
10/12/2018 10:17:07 PM
10/12/2018 10:57:28 PM
So you're basically admitting you're a white supremacist, then.
10/12/2018 11:32:25 PM
Is this a real conversation or are you an ad hominem bot?Fixing this problem would start with destroying the world economy. All major civilizations on the planet function in a way that provides praise for no real reason other than luck and chance. Everyone on this board exist in a world built on positive circumstance.
10/13/2018 12:29:39 AM
The point of this thought exercise is not to suggest that 100% equality is a current or even future solution. It's just to explain that immense inequality can not be solved by "equal opportunity" alone.[Edited on October 13, 2018 at 1:07 AM. Reason : .]
10/13/2018 12:48:54 AM
Ok?Most people on the planet don’t care about equality in any sense of the word. How do you propose we fix that?
10/13/2018 7:30:31 AM
^ call them "white supremacist", apparently.
10/13/2018 10:55:13 AM
I mean, you are, or you at least indirectly support it. You recognize the flaws of our inherently white supremacist meritocracy, but you don't believe in fixing them.
10/13/2018 11:32:53 AM
I’m speaking about the population of earth. Not specially the USA. So talking about all lives matter is pointless. Are you focusing only on the USA in your “thought experiment”?
10/13/2018 12:53:18 PM
It’s a problem all over the world, but I thought it was clear this is targeted at the country that jerks itself off over being a meritocracy, my b.
10/13/2018 5:39:18 PM
You got a citation for that claim?
10/13/2018 7:12:11 PM
I'd rather focus on the US to be honest. What about this topic offends you so much?
10/13/2018 7:34:40 PM
The claim that people think the USA is a Meritocracy. I’d like to see something to prove people claim this.
10/13/2018 10:35:51 PM
You want me to prove that people believe the US is a meritocracy? For real?Here's an excellent related article by Naomi Klein:https://theintercept.com/2018/10/10/donald-trump-inherited-wealth/
10/14/2018 6:04:31 PM
Well...yes. Bc I disagree the majority of people think we live in a meritocracy.
10/14/2018 9:25:58 PM
10/15/2018 12:31:50 AM
It's tough to hear that you're complicit in white supremacy, but the idea is nothing new.
10/15/2018 10:54:38 AM
^I know you know better, but you make is sound like you think every white person south of Maryland owned slaves.Perhaps if you applied that argument to descendants of the one percenters, then it might make sense.
10/15/2018 11:06:48 AM
Wealthy families have absolutely benefited more and should be held most responsible. But white people have still benefited collectively. That's how systemic racism works.
10/15/2018 11:09:23 AM
As I tried to argue in the other thread about this, you're not going to get anyone on your side be calling them white supremacist. That word brings to mind too many awful things, like American History X. You're wasting your time if you just call people that right off the bat.
10/15/2018 11:16:08 AM
10/15/2018 3:49:53 PM
10/15/2018 4:01:52 PM
Who are you quoting? Certainly not me, my statements made no position on whether anyone was owed anything. My assault was upon the assertion that "The only reason that the present generation of white Americans are in a position of economic strength...is because their fathers worked our fathers for over 400 years with no pay". Malcolm X, and adultswim by quoting him, asserted they somehow were, without addressing how that could be true, when it seems obviously untrue to me. America would be a far better economic position today had Americans hundreds of years ago been more educated and more productive, two things which were severely dampened by the institutions of Slavery. [Edited on October 15, 2018 at 4:26 PM. Reason : .,.]
10/15/2018 4:16:24 PM
malcom x's claim is about inequality, it's about the unmatched wealth that white people have because black people spent their times as slaves working for the white people but not getting paid for it. how have you made multiple replies but missed this basic point?
10/15/2018 4:34:21 PM
10/15/2018 4:47:05 PM
How does "people believ(ing) meritocracy is an equalizer" result in "(giving) white people an enormous leg-up over black people"? One does not cause the other. Any subset of the population being hamstrung by history and therefore less productive just results in the rest of society being similarly less productive. I guess you just mean relatively? White people are poorer, yes, but black people are even more poorer and so white people have a leg up over them? I don't see why we should care about relative impoverishment. All we should really care about is that we're all poorer than we could be.
10/15/2018 4:57:11 PM
10/15/2018 4:58:58 PM
10/15/2018 5:13:41 PM
The American Dream is what keeps the right wing alive (including most Democrats, btw). They do believe in fairness, for the most part, but their idea of fairness consists of creating an "even" playing field without taking into account the build-up of past oppression.School choice would just further entrench the problem, because people with the means & money will choose the better schools in better areas, and poorer areas will, like always, be stuck with scraps.
10/15/2018 5:28:07 PM
As it is, the Rich already have school choice. With vouchers, they would finally have a choice between schools. If the current school provider sucks, a new one can open up across the street and drive them out of business. Unlike today, where they have to take whatever the state-run monopoly gives them, otherwise known as "scraps".
10/15/2018 7:14:21 PM