It's time we gave Bernie the attention he deserves.

9/18/2015 12:49:36 PM

9/18/2015 1:23:50 PM

This thread displeases Shrike

9/18/2015 1:27:00 PM

HIs protectionist trade policies worry me.

9/18/2015 6:07:20 PM

he'll be on the Tonight Show later tonight

9/18/2015 8:32:00 PM

^^ yeah fuck this guy. he's far from the savior people think he is.

9/19/2015 10:35:59 AM

Savior? Probably not, but who do you like better than him that's running?

9/19/2015 10:51:36 AM

9/19/2015 1:21:24 PM

^^ hahahaha are you serious? I'm not sure who I wouldn't like better, on either side.

Hell I'd probably volunteer for Hillary's campaign before I voted for him. Huckabee/Santorum would probably be worse, I guess. Maybe Trump. Fuck, I'm not even sure if Trump would be worse. I haven't spent any time thinking about it, because it's not like I'd ever vote for any of the above.


Sanders/Huckabee/Santorum/Trump, at a minimum, I view as, like...doomsday candidates. We would be totally fucked in the butt if any of them won...especially Huckabee/Santorum, because then we wouldn't have crazy Congressional Republicans restraining them.

Rand Paul and Kasich are the only 2 I'd even possibly vote for, no matter who ends up on the (D) ballot. Paul has zero chance; Kasich...maybe one in a million. I'm not voting for any (D) candidates.

9/19/2015 11:06:45 PM

Can we really be any worse off with any of these candidates than we are with Obama? Or we were under Bush? Or Clinton? Or Bush Sr? Etc?

9/20/2015 1:06:22 AM

I'm a big fan of the Clinton administration. I just wish Bill's name could still be on the ballot and not Hillary.

I agree with about 95% of everything Bernie Sanders says. I don't think I've ever identified that strongly with any candidate for anything.

9/20/2015 2:15:42 AM

How did the duke manage to lump sanders in with crazy gop candidates. I thought it had to be a typo but it cant be in a bernie thread.

9/20/2015 2:20:59 PM

I agree with the sentiment of Sanders, but not the substance on a lot of issues.

For example, I agree education is a problem--we need kids to stop spending $40K on an English degree if that's going to result in them on food stamps and/or disability. Just give them the food stamps instead of a blank check to party in college.

It also seems shitty that people can work at Wal-mart or McDonald's and also be getting food stamps.

I think ultimately a campaign like his will end up demonizing people with a super high family income, but can't afford a house where they live. The people making $1 mill+ aren't going to be footing the bill for his tax plans, they have actual political power. It's going to be the small number of people making $300K-$500K getting the tax hike.

9/21/2015 9:51:23 AM

I can't help but laugh whenever someone brings up food stamps and implies we're doing too much for other people. First of all, obtaining food stamps is hard enough (especially if you are illiterate or don't speak English) and secondly families on food stamps are not eating 5-course meals. In many cases a can of vegetables has to be enough to feed a family of 4.

There are way fewer millionaires than there are not millionaires, so it's just up to the American people to stop voting against their best interests. This just might be the candidate to convince them.

9/21/2015 2:25:17 PM

Quote :

"I can't help but laugh whenever someone brings up food stamps and implies we're doing too much for other people."

I don't care if people need food stamps. I care about colleges over selling what they provide and saddling people with debt, resulting in the college grad needing food stamps anywhere. You'd save half the money by just providing food stamps. Going in debt for an English degree is proven to be a bad idea, when are we going to quit subsidizing it?

9/21/2015 3:52:16 PM

^I always assumed the "we shouldn't be paying for people with a degree in X" line of thinking was just people being trying to be funny... but that's an idiotic line of reasoning to try and build policy around.

We want an educated populace. The government shouldn't be in the business of telling you what major you should and shouldn't be doing to get a loan, this should be a personal choice. It should be up to advisors and professors to be realistic about what students can do and students to decide whether to continue that route, not the government. Corporations can woo students into certain degree programs by supporting scholarships or donating to programs, not forcing public policy to confirm to their desires.

Not to mention, there's going to come a point within our lifetimes where AI can be trained to do most human jobs, especially engineering and science. Lots of people go to college for the simple human joy of learning. The whole point of society is to support human pursuits, not to create employees for corporations.

It's a slippery slop to suggest the government should only support policies that help big business. Government should support policies that promote life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and businesses should build themselves around this.

9/21/2015 4:13:19 PM

Quote :

"We want an educated populace. The government shouldn't be in the business of telling you what major you should and shouldn't be doing to get a loan, this should be a personal choice. "

I agree we need an educated populace, but I think college is falling down on the job--and all the while costing a shit load of money that people can never pay back.

Quote :

"Imagine a large corporate machine mobilized to get you to buy something you don't need at a tremendously inflated cost, complete with advertising, marketing, and branding that says you're not hip if you don't have one, but when you get one you discover it's of poor quality and obsolete in ten months. That's a BA."

[Edited on September 21, 2015 at 4:50 PM. Reason : a]

9/21/2015 4:45:26 PM

Quote :

"^I always assumed the "we shouldn't be paying for people with a degree in X" line of thinking was just people being trying to be funny... but that's an idiotic line of reasoning to try and build policy around."

It’s relevant though, the value/marketability of a degree is easily measured and tracked. If you are unable to pay for college and tax payers are paying your way, we want a return on our investment.

Quote :

"We want an educated populace."

Yes but we want an employed populace more

Quote :

" The government shouldn't be in the business of telling you what major you should and shouldn't be doing to get a loan, this should be a personal choice"

You still have your personal choice, you just have to use your own money to choose it.

Quote :

"Not to mention, there's going to come a point within our lifetimes where AI can be trained to do most human jobs, especially engineering and science. "

Engineering and science will be the jobs that make the AI though. I think AI mainly starts in the bottom with manufacturing jobs, then customer service, typically jobs you don’t need college degrees for anyway.

Quote :

"Lots of people go to college for the simple human joy of learning."

LOL

Quote :

"It's a slippery slope to suggest the government should only support policies that help big business. "

It isn’t about helping big business; it’s about return on investment.

Quote :

"Government should support policies that promote life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and businesses should build themselves around this."

Part of happiness, for me, is not being on food stamps with a UNC degree in Swahili.

9/21/2015 5:35:19 PM

Quote :

"Going in debt for an English degree is proven to be a bad idea, when are we going to quit subsidizing it?"

Plenty of jobs don't care what your degree is in, just that you have one. The goal is to make people employable.

If English teachers were paid a real salary then 1) they wouldn't be in debt after college and 2) college English programs would become more competitive so you'd know you're getting the best. It would make it so someone couldn't sign up for an English degree "just for the experience" and we wouldn't be paying for it.

9/21/2015 7:26:34 PM

I have a degree in English Literature. It's useless aside from being able to say that yes, I have a bachelor's degree.

It has virtually no utility, the only career path options it gives you is teaching or something like technical writing.

Pretty much everything JCE2011 just said is correct, you can major in whatever the hell you want to, but you shouldn't expect loans to be given without an expectation that the recipient of the loan will be capable of future repayment.

[Edited on September 21, 2015 at 7:39 PM. Reason : sdfsdf]

9/21/2015 7:36:42 PM

Quote :

"you shouldn't expect loans to be given without an expectation that the recipient of the loan will be capable of future repayment."

Outside of the current procedures which attempt to do that, what exactly are you proposing?

9/21/2015 8:52:40 PM

^ Personally removing colleges with low employment rates from getting student loan money could be a start. Many colleges are using Federal money to create a country club atmosphere without giving students any real value for their future.

There are students from rich families, that can afford such things, but we shouldn't be expected to subsidize it when nothing of value is being added to society. Kids can find hot tub parties on their own without $100K loan.

9/21/2015 9:52:09 PM

If we were at full employment and if (most) states hadn't continually cut investments to universities, then I think most liberal arts majors would be doing just fine paying their loans and building a career.

Still, I'd be interested in proposals that limited federal loans going to colleges that don't meet certain standards. I think that was a thing for a little while until for-profit universities started lobbying congress to "shut that whole thing down."

9/21/2015 10:27:00 PM

Quote :

"I have a degree in English Literature. It's useless aside from being able to say that yes, I have a bachelor's degree. It has virtually no utility, the only career path options it gives you is teaching or something like technical writing. Pretty much everything JCE2011 just said is correct, you can major in whatever the hell you want to, but you shouldn't expect loans to be given without an expectation that the recipient of the loan will be capable of future repayment. "

That's not a problem with the english degree, that's a problem with the broader educational and loan system... how is this not obvious?

Do you think we don't need teachers and technical writers? Pretty much every TV show and movie you watch has english majors that help with the creation.

A society without writers, historians, artists, and related fields would be pretty awful... might as well become communist russia or saudi arabia or something.

9/21/2015 11:09:24 PM

Do we really need 5 million English teachers though

9/21/2015 11:28:13 PM

^^ you're still riding on that college dick. The branding has got you to the core--how many TV show writers got to where they were because of fucking college?

If it were that easy everyone would do it. The point is college doesn't provide a 1/10 of what they are selling.

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 12:20 AM. Reason : A]

9/22/2015 12:19:28 AM

^ college is providing what it's always provided, arguably more. It's our corporate culture (meaning our culture is built around corporations) that isn't providing what was expected just a few decades ago.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/wages-productivity-Figure-A.png

There's a lot that factors in there, but fundamentally, we're being screwed by our employers (as a whole). They might have excuses for why they pay less, but we know they're profits aren't the reason (this number is captured in productivity).

I love STEM majors as much as the next guy, but it's only an in-demand major right now because math and reasoning are difficult for computers to do easily. It's not going to even take full AI to suppress engineering wages and reduce available jobs, and engineers/scientists are going to be in the same boat humanity majors face now.

It's stupid to try and address this problem by cutting off the humanities majors, rather than fixing the root of the problem and address compensation and wages that match productivity.

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 1:27 AM. Reason : ]

9/22/2015 1:27:15 AM

Math is difficult for computers? I like how your whole mindset is that math and science are worthless, because eventually artificial intelligence and robots will take over. Yet a humanities degree will teach people creativity and talent. So out of touch it's unreal.

9/22/2015 1:38:51 AM

Quote :

"Many colleges are using Federal money to create a country club atmosphere without giving students any real value for their future."

If this were true, there would be no reason to have boosters, donors, alumni foundations, or endowments. Sanders wants to make TUITION free for all students. That just means free classes. Students would still pay fees and I would still get what feels like 10 calls every month asking me to give money back to the school. Housing, meal plans, student health, organizational activities, etc would all still come out of students' pockets and big things like facilities and construction would come from private giving.

Quote :

"Do we really need 5 million English teachers though"

http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/common-jobs-for-majors/humanities
http://www.insidejobs.com/blog/100-careers-for-english-majors-they-do-exist-really

9/22/2015 1:53:23 AM

So you should major in English Literature to get a job as an Accountant or a Real Estate Attorney? seems like bullshit

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 1:55 AM. Reason : lol it lists Software Engingeer as a job for English majors...wtf is that article]

All that really says is that your degree is relatively worthless depending on what you majored in, which has already been mentioned. I don't use my degree for any of my jobs.

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 1:56 AM. Reason : .]

9/22/2015 1:55:10 AM

^^^ lol, it's not out of touch at all, you just are being close minded and defensive. Mainstream articles on AI and the coming automation revolution are now saying what I just said... but scientists have been writing about this for decades.

And I never said humanities degree teach people creativity or talent, I'm not even sure how you remotely read that in there... that's a completely off-the-wall interpretation

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 1:58 AM. Reason : ]

9/22/2015 1:57:47 AM

You've made plenty of irrational leaps, like taking a statement that an English Lit major not having practical value means that Kurtis is for a world without art, music, literature and school teachers.

Tell me moron, what type of people are inventing those automated systems? Is it philosophy and history majors?

You are living in your little utopia for some reason, which is fine, but just not the real world.

9/22/2015 2:01:35 AM

Back to the original topic...Bernie Sanders is for free tuition. Cheaper college = more college grads = stronger workforce and better educated public at large.

9/22/2015 2:07:30 AM

Quote :

"Sanders wants to make TUITION free for all students. That just means free classes. Students would still pay fees and I would still get what feels like 10 calls every month asking me to give money back to the school."

Assuming you went to NC State you didn't go to the type of school I'm talking about--High Point University being the most notable in the area. Tuition being free isn't really free, payment will come from somewhere--likely from people that make $200K in California but still can't afford a home. Meanwhile those people with free college still won't have jobs--because like people keep mentioning automation, college can't get you a job etc.

So now we get to pay for these people twice--in college and then supported in either the prison system, on food stamps, or medical system. Why not just cut the bullshit and give them a living wage to start? Why spend it on college? Because college has brainwashed us into thinking it's valuable.

Quote :

"I love STEM majors as much as the next guy"

Only some stem majors. Biology and biochem majors end up labeling bottles in a lab for $30K the rest of their life if they don't go to medical school. Ph.D's are running out of value too: http://www.salon.com/2014/09/21/professors_on_food_stamps_the_shocking_true_story_of_academia_in_2014/

** Disclaimer, I have a Biochem degree, and a Philosophy degree! I should be poor as fuck, and resorting to "I'm smart, college is my identity."

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 2:16 AM. Reason : a]

9/22/2015 2:08:40 AM

Quote :

"likely from people that make $200K in California but still can't afford a home"

I make $42k in California and I can afford my living expenses (and Santa Barbara as a city is more expensive than most). It's all about the lifestyle choices you make. If you make that much and are seriously struggling, then the problem is you.

9/22/2015 2:19:08 AM

Quote :

"You've made plenty of irrational leaps, like taking a statement that an English Lit major not having practical value means that Kurtis is for a world without art, music, literature and school teachers."

The point was you can't pick and choose which programs government loans are used for. You can have specially targeted programs (which should be up to corporations to fund IMO), but a school loan should be a school loan.

Quote :

"Tell me moron, what type of people are inventing those automated systems? Is it philosophy and history majors? You are living in your little utopia for some reason, which is fine, but just not the real world. "

LOL you are not following along well are you? And there's actually a huge amount of cross pollination between Ai and philosophy and psychology (and linguistic) majors. I don't think i need to explain why we need history majors here.

This isn't a fantasy or utopia... this is the near future. You must not follow the news very closely, because in the past 6 months, there's been articles about it in every major news outlet.

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 2:21 AM. Reason : ]

9/22/2015 2:20:20 AM

Quote :

"I make $42k in California and I can afford my living expenses (and Santa Barbara as a city is more expensive than most). It's all about the lifestyle choices you make. If you make that much and are seriously struggling, then the problem is you."

I wasn't talking about me, and I wasn't talking about struggling--I said afford a home.

So @ 200K you take home $5K every two weeks. Neglecting bonuses that someone at that income level probably gets. A home in Santa Monica costs $800K for a condo, $1.2 million for a small house. A down payment is going to eat up most of anyone's available cash. So can they afford a $4500 house payment after they throw away all their money on a down payment? Santa Barbara prices are similar, and I'll be damned if I'm commuting 1.5 hours each way like some of my coworkers.

How strong is the labor the market? How strong is the housing market? Is it guarantee'd you'll be able to pay the bank ~$55K a year for what amounts to ever? What happens if there is a riot or housing bust like in the past? How long will it take to save that $200K down payment again? $200K gives you a hell of a runway if your expenses are low.

Quote :

"You must not follow the news very closely, because in the past 6 months, there's been articles about it in every major news outlet."

You are watching propaganda from the tech press to justify to the world investing the 0.1 percenters billions in dick pic and grocery shopping apps. After all, us tech workers need catered lunches and excessive bonuses--better than repairing the crumbling infrastructure and figuring out something to help the lost manufacturing jobs for the middle class. I'm not complaining--I just got a Tres Leches delivered from Whole Foods. Enjoy your Uber, TaskRabbit, and Instacart jobs when the disability check runs out.



[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 2:44 AM. Reason : a]

9/22/2015 2:31:24 AM

Quote :

"You are watching propaganda from the tech press to justify to the world investing the 0.1 percenters billions in dick pic and grocery shopping apps. After all, us tech workers need catered lunches and excessive bonuses--better than repairing the crumbling infrastructure and figuring out something to help the lost manufacturing jobs for the middle class. I'm not complaining--I just got a Tres Leches delivered from Whole Foods. Enjoy your Uber, TaskRabbit, and Instacart jobs when the disability check runs out. "

o.O

Throughout this thread i've been arguing we need to give non-STEM majors the same access as STEM majors to gov education funding, partially on the basis that gov. policy shouldn't be set to cater to the needs of corporations (i.e. uber et al).

I support increased wages for all workers, particularly low-skilled ones, but also medium wage workers because they've been getting shafted too.

Also, automation revolution isn't "tech press propaganda," few people doubt AI will be able to meet or exceed humans in all tasks at some point, the only question is when. But to suppress wages and take jobs, it doesn't have to meet or exceed humans, it just has to be good enough at the right cost.

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 3:03 AM. Reason : ]

9/22/2015 3:02:57 AM

Quote :

"Throughout this thread i've been arguing we need to give non-STEM majors the same access as STEM majors to funding, partially on the basis that gov. policy shouldn't be set to cater to the needs of corporations (i.e. uber et al)."

That's a great way to get back at the corporations--fund educations for people that could never be hired so they are easily exploitable and need to take Uber jobs to make ends meet. Oy...

Give them the $100K free and clear to start a company or even for blow and hookers--at least that's honest take on the skills they'll have when they throw it all away in college and end up on food stamps anyway.

Quote :

" Also, automation revolution isn't "tech press propaganda," few people doubt AI will be able to meet or exceed humans in all tasks at some point, the only question is when. But to suppress wages and take jobs, it doesn't have to meet or exceed humans, it just has to be good enough at the right cost."

Some of it is tech press propaganda. In case you missed the last thirty years there isn't any real journalism being done--especially in industry mags. It's just a circle jerk of people trying to talk about whatever they are into. Tech is cool so you get stories written by VCs going unchecked right into the Atlantic, Wall Street Journal, and TechCrunch which then gets circulated a day later on the Today show if it gets enough hits on Reddit/Twitter.

9/22/2015 3:11:09 AM

Quote :

"That's a great way to get back at the corporations--fund educations for people that could never be hired so they are easily exploitable and need to take Uber jobs to make ends meet. Oy... Give them the $100K free and clear to start a company or even for blow and hookers--at least that's honest take on the skills they'll have when they throw it all away in college and end up on food stamps anyway. "

Ha, you're right they'll end up on food stamps, but the point youre missing is that we'll all end up on food stamps unless you happen to be the lucky top 2% of your field. That's the risk we're facing. Productivity will continue to rise, while wages stagnate or fall, based on how our economy works now. The solution isn't more education, or more STEM education, the solution is to shift (or return?) to a government that aims to support the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, away from the corporatist thinking that dominated public policy since the 70s.

Quote :

"Some of it is tech press propaganda. In case you missed the last thirty years there isn't any real journalism being done--especially in industry mags. It's just a circle jerk of people trying to talk about whatever they are into. Tech is cool so you get stories written by VCs going unchecked right into the Atlantic, Wall Street Journal, and TechCrunch which then gets circulated a day later on the Today show if it gets enough hits on Reddit/Twitter. "

Ha, that's a plausible theory, but if you post-stalk me, you'll see AI is a interest and a skill set of mine. I'm basing my opinion on this on comp sci papers of the researchers working on this, and my own personal experience replicating some of their work.

9/22/2015 4:06:42 AM

^ this would all be interesting five years ago. You'll see the former middle class take more and more Uber jobs and on the extreme low end you'll see fast food workers replaced. Robots won't be making bomb ass artisanel pickles or finding the ripest avocados any time soon. Besides the top 10% can afford to pay someone to do all that.

The real interesting question I have: if the top 10% can afford all the previous trappings of the rich like personal drivers, delivery services, maids on demand and made from scratch food. What are the true rich doing and what opportunities are there in that market segment?

9/22/2015 4:33:30 AM

Quote :

"Math is difficult for computers? I like how your whole mindset is that math and science are worthless, because eventually artificial intelligence and robots will take over. Yet a humanities degree will teach people creativity and talent. So out of touch it's unreal."

Truth. It did provide laughs though.

Quote :

" There's a lot that factors in there, but fundamentally, we're being screwed by our employers (as a whole). They might have excuses for why they pay less, but we know they're profits aren't the reason"

This is not even remotely close. This is economics 101, supply and demand. The higher demand and less supply, the more you can negotiate your wage. More people willing to do the work for less.

Quote :

" http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/common-jobs-for-majors/humanities "

This is not representative at all. Hey if you major in statistics your potential jobs include CEO of SAS with a $9b estimated net worth!

Quote :

" gov. policy shouldn't be set to cater to the needs of corporations"

This makes zero sense. If you are “needed by a corporation” that means you have a usefull skillset and a marketable resume. Corporations ARE the market, catering to the market is exactly what people should do, because that’s how you make money.

Quote :

" I support increased wages for all workers, particularly low-skilled ones, but also medium wage workers because they've been getting shafted too."

“I want everyone to get more money! See? Problem solved guys”

9/22/2015 10:11:06 AM

Quote :

" http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/common-jobs-for-majors/humanities " This is not representative at all. Hey if you major in statistics your potential jobs include CEO of SAS with a $9b estimated net worth! "

lol, maybe this will help:

me·di·an
'mede?n/Submit
adjective
1.
denoting or relating to a value or quantity lying at the midpoint of a frequency distribution of observed values or quantities, such that there is an equal probability of falling above or below it.

9/22/2015 10:34:51 AM

Oh goody, a statistics lesson! Great try. Maybe this will help.

Median doesn't matter if you hand pick the positions.

We all know $160-$65k is nowhere near representative of what English Majors can expect.

I'm not trying to shit on CHASS/English, I enjoyed those classes. Just saying, if you are poor and the government gives you a free ride, ride it out of poverty, not right back into it.

An English degree does not help you make money, this isn't because "Corporate America is destroying the American dream" this is because learning about old English texts has zero utility in society. Either way, pretty soon the robot revolution will happen and AI will take all the CHASS teaching jobs.

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 10:51 AM. Reason : .]

9/22/2015 10:51:29 AM

^

While we are on the subject, overly attractive people land jobs for which they aren't qualified. If you hand pick a few attractive comms/english majors you'll find they have six figure incomes too! English is so valuable!

9/22/2015 11:09:27 AM

Quote :

"^ this would all be interesting five years ago. You'll see the former middle class take more and more Uber jobs and on the extreme low end you'll see fast food workers replaced. Robots won't be making bomb ass artisanel pickles or finding the ripest avocados any time soon. Besides the top 10% can afford to pay someone to do all that. "

Yeah, and this is a problem. Do we want a society going forward, where a small slice of people lead fulfilling lives because they're the super-rich, and the rest of us fight for scraps based on the "sharing economy"?

This is what Bernie is wanting to help solve. Outside his trade policy, he has the best platform to address these issues. The other candidates are almost entirely blind to this issue... and if the next president serves 2 terms, they'll preside over a significant ramping up of the automation revolution.

9/22/2015 11:35:11 AM

TIL that JCE2011 has a comm degree and is bitter about it

Sanders' trade policies are good, since we have protectionist policies on labor we need protectionist policies on capital or the market is too heavily in favor of capital

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

9/22/2015 11:42:55 AM

^^

But it's not the super rich. It's the kind of well off top 10% - 20%. Now instead of a broad middle class you have a narrow aspirational class that can afford "New Luxury" goods. Think Whole Foods, these delivery services, and $5 cold brew. The class making money is much larger than the conditions of the French Revolution, and we have a safety net and Wal-mart, so the poors can eat corn syrup and cheesy blasters--at least they won't be hungry.

Quote :

" The other candidates are almost entirely blind to this issue..."

I agree that no other candidates I see talk about it, and that is one thing I commend Bernie Sanders on. Everyone else blames the problems on Mexicans or or some economic policies of 1990 which ignore the internet being common and that every kid capable of wield a recursive function goes to California to get rich off destroying jobs. Power has decided this is how it wants society structured, and lots of money is being invested to make it so--your only hope is to fight like hell out of poor. I don't see the Wal-mart crowd starting revolution on a rascal scooter or the military industrial complex helping them.

* New Luxury is from a marketing book that's about 15 years old but it described the phenomenon of people "Trading Up" by spending more money mass produced luxury goods.

[Edited on September 22, 2015 at 12:03 PM. Reason : a]

9/22/2015 12:02:41 PM

Quote :

"TIL that JCE2011 has a comm degree and is bitter about it"

I don't have a communications degree. How is that relevant if I did either way?

The facts are facts, some degrees have higher utility and worth, higher degrees of difficulty, and are more marketable and lucrative. If we sponsor someone can't afford college, why should tax payers pay for a degree where they don't get a return on investment?

9/22/2015 12:07:08 PM

Quote :

"I'm not trying to shit on CHASS/English, I enjoyed those classes. Just saying, if you are poor and the government gives you a free ride, ride it out of poverty, not right back into it. An English degree does not help you make money, this isn't because "Corporate America is destroying the American dream" this is because learning about old English texts has zero utility in society. Either way, pretty soon the robot revolution will happen and AI will take all the CHASS teaching jobs"

LOL. You have to look at the bigger picture... look into the future, consider the feedback looks and domino effects.

Someone from poverty getting a degree in English because this is what they're passionate about and makes them happy, who then gets a job in a bank or as a teacher, this IS getting the out of poverty. This is the goal. You can't force people to like math and science and engineering, then punish them on top of this by denying them equal access to loans. This just sets people up for failure.

Government policy should be built around the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness, and corporations should build up around this.

9/22/2015 12:30:27 PM