So I watched this documentary called Pump on Netflix. It talked about how car manufacturers are in cahoots with the oil companies and deliberately do not produce many Flex Fuel cars. I understand that cars that run on E85 aren't as efficient as their pure gasoline counter parts but it seems like car companies deliberately program the ECUs to work in a way that makes E85 seem inefficient. I also learned that E85 is hygroscopic and attracts water if left out in the open but is is really an issue if it is an enclosed container like a gas tank?

Brazil seems to have made a transition and is completely energy independent. Why can't we be the same?


P.S. Only after creating this thread did I realize that there is a discussion going on in - "EPA to study making 95 Octane "regular" "



[Edited on September 13, 2015 at 11:12 AM. Reason : P.S.]

9/13/2015 11:08:45 AM

yes, ethanol blends are a problem in any container or tank. a gas tank has to be vented. old cars were vented all the time. new cars have solenoid vent valves, but they still have to let air into the tank. something has to take up the volume of the tank as fuel leaves the tank. water vapor goes into the tank with the air and fucks your shit up if you leave the ethanol in there.

fuck ethanol and every motherfucker who ever grew a kernel of corn that ended up in my gas tank.

9/13/2015 9:14:26 PM

as I said in the other thread, efficiency and MPG doesn't even matter when you're comparing gasoline and ethanol blends. all that matters is $/mile, and E85 loses that battle. not to mention what it does to food prices.

9/13/2015 9:22:03 PM

How is an entire country like Brazil making it work then?

9/13/2015 9:43:53 PM

for one, they're getting it from sugarcane, not corn.

that documentary was funded by folks who have special interests in ethanol.

[Edited on September 13, 2015 at 10:47 PM. Reason : do you own a boat? small engines? any internal combustion engine that doesn't get run weekly?]

but i admit, i have special interests in using pure gasoline instead of ethanol blends. and by that i mean that i'm especially interested in not having to rebuild/replace the carburetor on my boat, chainsaw, lawn mower, etc every fucking year. i'm extremely interested in not having to pump an entire tank of fuel out of my boat and pour it out simply because i didn't use my boat for 3 months.

[Edited on September 13, 2015 at 10:51 PM. Reason : adsf]

9/13/2015 10:46:32 PM

the ethanol industry has been hit hard in Brazil because of the low gas prices caused by the economy

that's good though, if ethanol booms again and sugarcane becomes valuable it will displace crops like soybeans and others which will increase those food prices and accelerate deforestation of the rain forest. even in Brazil, ethanol isn't rosy environmental perfection

9/14/2015 10:57:34 AM

Ethanol isn't a great solution for replacing gasoline. IIRC, it would take up most if not all arable land to grow enough ethanol-crops to supplant gasoline usage for a large consumer like the US. Also, the air pollution byproducts of burning ethanol are kind of a bitch. Brazil has had some big problems with that. Then there are the cost and energy efficiency issues.

I'm still holding out for fuel cells or some sort of new battery technology with respect to moving automobiles away from fossil fuels..

9/14/2015 4:07:32 PM

$/mile e85 makes great race gas.


Otherwise don't touch it.

9/15/2015 1:12:33 AM

I have to drive a work car that is E85. Total crap. The car gets driven less than 2000 miles a year, and sometimes the tank can sit with E85 for months. It is required to be filled with E85 unless you do a lot of bitching. Eventually, the car will not start except after turning the starter for over a minute, then it runs rough as hell. The instant fix for this situation is to fill the tank with normal fuel. E85 is absolute garbage.

9/15/2015 9:47:54 AM

CAR MANUFACTURERS IN CAHOOTS WITH [B]BIG OIL [/B] SAY IT ISN'T SO

Just look up how big oil and the auto manufacturers bought out and scrapped all the trolley and light rail systems of american cities back in the early-mid 1900's. Such bullshit....

Either way I don't know if E85 is an answer.....

I have almost a bigger gripe over the subsidizes and dick sucking our politicians give for the Corn industry than Big Oil. At least big oil isn't going into my stomach by sneaking HFCS into everything i eat. Although a car-centric and gluttony for high fructose corn syrup are both contributors to our obese fat society.

9/28/2015 10:16:22 PM

you guys do realize that "big oil" now owns most major ethanol plants in the US, right?

9/29/2015 4:41:08 PM

^don't pay the troll any attention.

9/30/2015 8:26:23 AM

"big oil" is smart and wealthy enough to purchase every other competing energy source other than some sort of wired infrastructure that power companies would own directly.

9/30/2015 2:02:40 PM