Conservatives really want their own Sharia laws here in the US, its discussed in many threads but I'll use this thread to collect examples as I see them.

It's important that we point out these examples to challenge the Christian persecution complex. Christians are not persecuted in the US, they are in power, and its time that we stop taking their shit.

4/11/2014 10:06:21 AM

This morning's example comes from Pensacola Christian College. Similar to how some users here want to shame women for seeking an abortion in cases of rape, and similar to Islamists who want to punish women in cases of rape, Pensacola Christian College wanted a women to repent for being raped. Instead of helping her, they forced her into counseling sessions to make it clear that she was the one at fault.

http://www.xojane.com/issues/samantha-field-pensacola-christian-college-rape-stalking

4/11/2014 10:07:46 AM

4/11/2014 10:19:55 AM

Eh, not not far off really.

One religion uses violence quite often to force their religious beliefs and law onto others.

The other uses mostly demonstrations and legislation to do the same. Occasionally you'll see violence.

End goal? The same.

[Edited on April 11, 2014 at 11:14 AM. Reason : .]

4/11/2014 11:13:50 AM

Eh, if comments from some "Conservative Christians" on WRAL and Foxnews were to be taken literally, violence would be used a lot more often if mob rule allowed them to get away with it.

4/11/2014 11:17:10 AM

you only have to go as far as the death penalty thread below this one to see conservative violence fantasies

4/11/2014 11:19:00 AM

Awww how cute. You've found a story from a private Christian college and you're trying to equate that into some attempt at forcing people into some type of ?Sharia? law that you've made up in your head.

Try again. Somebody does this shit at a public university they'd be fired faster than you can even say Sharia. I don't subscribe to moonbat Christian ideals, nor do many Christians.

The only actual law that I can come up with deals with abortion - but you get into a discussion about morality that goes beyond just Christianity.

4/11/2014 11:21:29 AM

my claim is not that people are trying to start christian sharia law, its that christians are, so your response that it's a christian school is confusing

4/11/2014 11:39:09 AM

Here is presidential candidate Rick Santorum publicly calling for Christian Sharia law:
http://youtu.be/bgeu21Xu3Mc

Quote :

"... a country that is given rights under the god, under god, not any god, the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, and that God that gave us rights also gave us a responsibility, and laws, by which our civil laws have to comport with. A higher law. God's law"

around the same time, during a discussion of marriage equality he said:

Quote :

"“The question is whether we should change the laws of this country to reflect a different value structure. What we’re talking about here are different values. We have Judeo-Christian values that are based on Biblical truth and truth that can be acclaimed and resolved through reason. And, those truths don’t change just because people’s attitudes may change.”"

Here is presidential candidate Mike Muckabee stating that we should the amend the constitution to match God's standards:

Quote :

"I have opponents in this race who do not want to change the Constitution. But I believe it’s a lot easier to change the Constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God. And that’s what we need to do is amend the Constitution so it’s in God’s standards rather than trying to change God’s standards so it lines up with some contemporary view of how we treat each other and how we treat the family."

4/11/2014 11:49:27 AM

Sharia law is "Islamic Law". You don't have to go very far at all to find examples of christian Americans, and politicians, that want to pass biblical laws, or laws that promote Christianity.

[Edited on April 11, 2014 at 11:57 AM. Reason : ^you could also find plenty of examples from presidential candidates Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin]

4/11/2014 11:49:50 AM

Quote :

"Conservatives really want their own Sharia laws here in the US, its discussed in many threads but I'll use this thread to collect examples as I see them. "

Think i posted about something similar in another thread. Kind of ironic that it is the right-wing Christians that are so war-hawkish Islamic countries (like Iran, Afghanistan, etc) believing it is our duty to "free" them from Islamic based tyranny when in reality they support a similar type of Christian based theocracy over here.

4/11/2014 11:56:45 AM

Christians once rammed through prohibition, used Christianity to justify slavery, Christianity was used in churches to justify the Iraq war. I've argued with Christians who, in the same discussion, said they would take their children to see criminals hanged, but called Muslims executing their criminals by cutting their heads off monsters (there's a slight distinction, but only slight).

Christians to this day use Christianity to justify the bullying of gay students and their sympathizers. We stand apart from our peers in other nations in our non-acceptance of Evolution, this undercurrent of Christianity affects our funding of science, our views of science, our response to ecological issues; already as a country we are not taking climate change seriously enough because of the same underlying distrust for scientist.

While this doesn't say anything about the individual Christian, it's pretty clear that the loudest, most visible Christians are the nuttiest bunch, and they aren't afraid to influence politics.

4/11/2014 11:57:17 AM

Former House Majority Leader, Tom Delay:

Quote :

"Jesus died for our freedom. And Jesus destroyed Satan so we could be free and that is manifested in what is called the Constitution of the United States. God created the nation and God created the Constitution; it is written on biblical principles."

Quote :

"I think we got off the track when we allowed our government to become a secular government, we stopped realizing that God created this nation, that he wrote the Constitution, that it’s based on biblical principles."

4/11/2014 11:57:20 AM

Quote :

"already as a country we are not taking climate change seriously enough because of the same underlying distrust for scientist. "

This isn't being taken seriously because, well just check out the thread on that topic. There's lots of good non-faith arguments against global warming, or what you now call climate change since global warming doesn't fit your argument anymore. I'm not saying there's good arguments for global warming either, but to sit there and say we as a country don't take global warming seriously because of a supposed deity hanging out in the sky is ludicrous.

4/11/2014 1:15:45 PM

religion plays a factor:
http://www.christianpost.com/news/christians-launch-campaign-against-global-warming-hype-32396/

Quote :

"The “We Get It!” declaration, which currently has nearly 100 signers, is backed by prominent Christians including Tony Perkins of Family Research Council, Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family, award-winning radio host Janet Parshall, and U.S. Senator James Inhofe of Oklahoma. What supporters of the statement seek is to inform Christians about the biblical perspective on the environment and the poor, and to encourage them to look at the hard evidence, which they say does not support the devastating degree of climate change claimed by mainstream society."

4/11/2014 1:17:47 PM

Sure, maybe a factor with the 1% or less of the population that's moonbat crazy

4/11/2014 1:54:12 PM

a popular radio host, us senator, and two of the largest (and well funded) christian organizations is not a fringe movement

4/11/2014 1:56:57 PM

Quote :

"which currently has nearly 100 signers"

They were really on the move there back in 2008. Wonder if they ever reached their million. Doubtful.

4/11/2014 2:03:14 PM

you keep missing points that are sitting right in front of you

4/11/2014 2:08:40 PM

Quote :

" While this doesn't say anything about the individual Christian, it's pretty clear that the loudest, most visible Christians are the nuttiest bunch, and they aren't afraid to influence politics."

Seconded

Quote :

""The “We Get It!” declaration, which currently has nearly 100 signers, is backed by prominent Christians including Tony Perkins of Family Research Council, Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family, award-winning radio host Janet Parshall, and U.S. Senator James Inhofe of Oklahoma. What supporters of the statement seek is to inform Christians about the biblical perspective on the environment and the poor, and to encourage them to look at the hard evidence, which they say does not support the devastating degree of climate change claimed by mainstream society.""

I can respect someone for arguing against climate change legislation because they feel current predictions are exaggerated.
What I can not STAND are the arm-chair scientists, who most likely know jackshit on the subject just what Faux News tells them,
and try to argue that humans unequivocally can have no impact on global climate.

[Edited on April 11, 2014 at 2:59 PM. Reason : f]

4/11/2014 2:58:54 PM

Quote :

"I can respect someone for arguing against climate change legislation because they feel current predictions are exaggerated. What I can not STAND are the arm-chair scientists, who most likely know jackshit on the subject just what Faux News tells them, and try to argue that humans unequivocally can have no impact on global climate. "

That's the problem, science is about asking questions, but the people asking questions are only doing so because Fox News or their pastor told them to, not because they want to strengthen the integrity of the science.

People still question IF humans can impact the climate, and we definitely can. When you see people asking the wrong questions, you know it's politically motivated.

4/11/2014 3:04:31 PM

the people are not asking questions at all because Fox and their Pastor told them they didn't need to

4/11/2014 3:07:30 PM

Phyllis Schlafly Claims Women Paid The Same As Men Won't Find Husbands
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/phyllis-schlafly-equal-pay_n_5154150.html

Quote :

"Days after Senate Republicans unanimously blocked a vote on the Paycheck Fairness Act, Phyllis Schlafly, founder of "pro-family" organization Eagle Forum, claimed that providing women with equal pay for equal work would deter their chances of finding a “suitable mate” in a Christian Post op-ed published Tuesday."

4/18/2014 4:34:59 PM

But... if they were paid the same, they wouldn't have to seek out men who make more. It gives them more freedom to choose their mate. Ah, old people.

4/18/2014 4:46:09 PM

Paycheck fairness act gets blocked in America? Is this Asia or Africa we are talking about?

Sick.

4/18/2014 5:10:50 PM

most opponents hide behind the argument that its not necessary or that women get paid less for whatever reason, so at least its refreshing when they just outright admit that they oppose it because women should make less money because jesus

4/18/2014 5:22:59 PM

Strange (and fucking crazy) how some conservative women also hold back the progress/equality of women, whether in Saudi Arabia, or in the USA.

4/18/2014 5:59:07 PM

Quote :

"This morning's example comes from Pensacola Christian College"

Oh yeah, PCC is full-retard, all the time. They have people out in town here standing on street corners reading from the Bible at the top of their lungs and/or telling people that they're going to hell. Their male and female students can't hang out together, etc. They're, like, a step or two up the crazy ladder from Liberty or Bob Jones.

(and in the spirit of this thread, their female students wear full-length dresses, because it would be terrible if they, like, bared an ankle or something).

[Edited on April 18, 2014 at 7:15 PM. Reason : ]

4/18/2014 7:09:04 PM

Clearly the problem is Christianity. And conservatism.

All such cases mentioned are exclusive to Christians, not atheist regimes, Muslim extremists, megalomaniacs, political hacks, "moonbat crazies", or just selfish human beings. It has nothing to do with the self-interested human condition or the exploitation of religion for personal or political gain. This is unique to Christian conservatives.

People like William Wilberforce, MLK, and Mother Teresa drew their humanist philosophies from thin air...err..secular naturalism...or something...not sound Biblical doctrine.

With that said, most of the links ITT do include moonbats that deserve to be exposed and discredited. So gg. But some of the comments here seem to lump them in with the rest of the historical Christian tradition, as if the exploitation of faiths/ideologies is something unique to "Christians".

Studies like this- cited in the NY Times- would even seem to suggest that the problem isn't so much faith, but rather the half-assed practice of it: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/30/opinion/sunday/douthat-the-christian-penumbra.html?_r=0

[Edited on April 19, 2014 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ]

4/19/2014 12:48:21 PM

Quote :

"Clearly the problem is Christianity. And conservatism. "

In America, the country most of us live in, this is a pretty accurate statement.

4/19/2014 1:30:09 PM

Quote :

"Studies like this- cited in the NY Times- would even seem to suggest that the problem isn't so much faith, but rather the half-assed practice of it"

In some cases, that may be true. But then, Christians being half-assed is good when it comes to gay rights, women's rights, and every other terrible thing the bible tells them is okay.

4/19/2014 4:28:17 PM

Speaking as a conservative Christian whose neighbors are mostly Muslims and friends, this thread is asinine. Thank you.

OK, I guess I should clarify the things that are asinine:

1) Implicitly associating Islam and Muslims with religious extremism
2) Lumping all conservatives and Christians into one religiously extremist group
3) Listing a handful of moronic examples of extremist Christians who were soundly rejected by mainstream conservatives and Christians

These are the chief complaints

[Edited on April 19, 2014 at 4:40 PM. Reason : ]

4/19/2014 4:33:48 PM

No true Scotsman conservative Christian...

4/19/2014 4:53:27 PM

That's what I'm talking about, right there. If this thread were "asshole agenda for douchebaggery law" I'd be in favor of it, because the people that dtownral is really referring to* are assholes. They aren't Christians, or conservatives, any more than Stalin and Mao were "secular humanists" or "progressive liberals."

*- this is giving dtownral a huge benefit of the doubt here. For all I know he thinks everyone who is conservative or Christian voted for Bachman/Huckabee/Santorum, in which case he is operating on the same asshole/douchebag level.

4/19/2014 6:26:03 PM

Former Bush Strategist: Anti-LGBT Law Uses Christianity Like Muslim Terrorists Use Islam
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/former-bush-strategist-anti-lgbt-law-uses-christianity-like-muslim-terrorists-use-islam/

Quote :

"On This Week With George Stephanopoulos, former George W Bush campaign director Matthew Dowd predicted that Arizona Governor Jan Brewer would veto a just-passed bill that would allow discrimination against LGBT customers, and also read the impetus behind the bill into the history of people using religion to mask exploitation and repression. “I think in the end Governor Brewer is going to veto this,” Dowd said. “It’s an easy veto to do because of the things going in the business economy there.” “This is one of those problems where people use religion as a way to enforce discriminatory practices,” he continued. “People used religion back in the 1860s, when they used religion to defend slavery. We’ve used religion to go to war. People criticize Islam because they use religion to fight and kill people. This is the problem. I think she vetoes it, because there’s no way this can survive.” “Hallelujah,” Donna Brazile said. “I hope you’re right.” Watch the clip below, via ABC News:"

video in link

4/19/2014 6:37:51 PM

Quote :

"That's what I'm talking about, right there. If this thread were "asshole agenda for douchebaggery law" I'd be in favor of it, because the people that dtownral is really referring to* are assholes. They aren't Christians, or conservatives, any more than Stalin and Mao were "secular humanists" or "progressive liberals." *- this is giving dtownral a huge benefit of the doubt here. For all I know he thinks everyone who is conservative or Christian voted for Bachman/Huckabee/Santorum, in which case he is operating on the same asshole/douchebag level."

I just wonder what Universe you're living in, where ideology has zero impact on behavior. Where people are just randomly assholes or not, completely independent of whether they've been indoctrinated by bigoted and hateful beliefs for their entire lives.

For instance, all the people campaigning for Amendment One, citing the Bible and God for the reason for supporting it: what were they going on about? They're just randomly secret homophobes and just happened to find the perfect cover which has been institutionally against homosexuality for thousands of years? What a coincidence!

[Edited on April 19, 2014 at 11:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/19/2014 11:18:15 PM

Quote :

"I just wonder what Universe you're living in, where ideology has zero impact on behavior. Where people are just randomly assholes or not"

I live in a universe where approximately the same percentage of atheists and theists turn out to be assholes, which leads me to believe that the condition of "being a colossal shitbird" is randomly distributed. Religion is probably why these particular assholes are homophobic assholes, but the presence of large numbers of religious people who aren't homophobic or assholes suggests to me that something else is in play here besides religion.

4/20/2014 12:45:36 AM

You're right that religion doesn't create an asshole, and asshole can exist independently of religion.

The problem is that religion in this case makes it extra difficult to get these assholes to change their viewpoint. if someone can point to mainstream politicians and preachers telling them their religion wants them to hate gays, they aren't going to take any real time questioning this, compared to the asshole who hates gays because it's icky.

Normally, when you work to change an asshole's mind, you're just overcoming the asshole-hump, with a religious person, you have to overcome not only the asshole-hump, but the extra religion-hump. And as deeply as ingrained as religion is, it's by far the more daunting hump to try and traverse.

and damn you for making me type the phrase "asshole hump".

4/20/2014 1:16:30 AM

Or, to put it another way:

Religion is an Asshole Enabler.

4/20/2014 1:53:08 AM

Also a really powerful asshole political machine

4/20/2014 8:54:53 AM

People manage to be assholes just fine without religion, and they're equally hard to dissuade.

Quote :

"Normally, when you work to change an asshole's mind, you're just overcoming the asshole-hump, with a religious person, you have to overcome not only the asshole-hump, but the extra religion-hump. And as deeply as ingrained as religion is, it's by far the more daunting hump to try and traverse."

It took a Cold War, Vietnam, Korea, and a few close calls with the eradication of humankind to get over the political-hump of the emphatically atheistic USSR and Maoist China. I suppose it goes without mentioning that these regimes were the most prolifically murdering assholes in the history of the world. (I'd bring up the Nazis too, but everyone does that and somebody will find a quote from some time when Hitler pretended to like Christianity or any religion not based on his own self-aggrandizement.)

Ideology is the asshole enabler. It can be religious and it can be antireligious and it can be political and racial and whatever else. Since everybody has an ideology of some kind, maybe we should admit that human nature is an asshole enabler.

4/20/2014 3:24:27 PM

opinions of Reagan apologists are generally ignored

4/20/2014 3:47:14 PM

Well then I rest my case.

But seriously though, does that not prove my point? Or maybe not. I don't know dtownral, maybe he's a widely recognized troll/buffoon. This is what happens when you move to the jungle, you get out of touch.

4/20/2014 3:49:46 PM

You'll figure it out after you've lived in a 3rd world country as long as I did

4/20/2014 4:02:17 PM

^^ dtownral is a widely known troll.

4/20/2014 4:14:07 PM

^^ where did you live and for how long?

4/20/2014 5:41:23 PM

Nepal and various places in SA for 7 years (missionary parents). It's not related to the OP, but eventually Grumpy will go somewhere and see first hand the results of Reagan's terrible legacy.

Actually I guess this is related to OP. Growing up my parents were pretty progressive, but most of the people who came to visit or who provided support were the conservative stereotype. I sat through so many meetings where people would ask for family planning and be offered bibles, instead of agriculture classes they got a piano for their church. This is probably when I decided that religion was a joke, and while my parents never admitted it, I suspect it's when they came to the same conclusion.


[Edited on April 20, 2014 at 5:58 PM. Reason : .]

4/20/2014 5:50:44 PM

Quote :

"I live in a universe where approximately the same percentage of atheists and theists turn out to be assholes"

How in the world did you come to this conclusion? The vast majority of humanity in recorded history have been theists. The two populations aren't even comparable in this manner.

And maybe you would count me as one of the assholes; but I guarantee you that I could never be convinced to murder innocent people or vote to subjugate women or homosexuals because someone says a god wants me to.

In your quest to disassociate religion from the harm it does, you're missing the forest from the trees. The rank and file of Christianity in America aren't assholes. Even the ones that vote for shitty laws that seek to turn our society back to the bronze ages. Unquestioning dogma is the best tool for getting common good folk to do really shitty things to themselves and to other humans.

Religion is the biggest subset of unquestioning dogma there is. Even your moderate, pseudo-tolerant varieties. The problem isn't credulous people: it's the assholes convincing them that things are true that they couldn't possibly know.

[Edited on April 20, 2014 at 8:34 PM. Reason : .]

4/20/2014 8:12:52 PM

Lol, dtownral just told grumpygop to go live in a 3rd world country. He really is the dumbest fucking user in this site.

4/20/2014 9:43:12 PM

Quote :

"Ideology is the asshole enabler. It can be religious and it can be antireligious and it can be political and racial and whatever else. Since everybody has an ideology of some kind, maybe we should admit that human nature is an asshole enabler."

This is the point if the thread. The asshole enabler in the United States right now is Christianity. In other parts of the world, it's Islam. In North Korea, it's the dear leader (and really in the examples you cite as "atheism").

America atheists aren't asking to directly supplant Christianity with atheism, the intention is to promote science and reason based thinking over dogmatic ideologies.

As a species of course we gravitate to dogma, it wouldn't be easy to make decisions this way, there would be problems, but it's better than how we've been doing it.

I think most atheists would understand that some people just feel better, live better lives, by believing in something greater than themselves. But there is nothing inherently theistic with rejecting modern day science on evolution, vaccines, climate change, or disregarding any statistical evidence on the myriad of other issues that shouldn't be political but are.

On a side note, if you've been able to get episodes of Cosmos, one of the writers' main focuses has been showing how science can touch on matters of spirituality, in the sense that we are connected to our ancestors by the fact that we breathe the same air and are made of the same molecules, and that we are connected to the universe by the fact that we are all made from stardust (in a manner of speaking). It's impossible for even most of the population to spend the time to attain an academic understanding of scientific issues. But it's very possible for humans to retain their desire in feeling part of a greater whole, without clinging to an explicitly mystical ideology.

4/21/2014 12:20:38 AM