Does anybody know anything about drainage laws? My neighbor is demanding that I made some changes to the drainage in my yard. I am somewhat sympathetic and will probably just acquiesce, but I'd like to know what I'm required to do vs. simply being a good neighbor.

I have a series of drainage pipes that collect water from my downspouts and some drains in the yard. The drains dump into a ditch in the side yard that connects to the ditches along the street. The drain outlet is on my property, but the water immediately flows into the neighbors ditch. This drainage was put in by the previous owner and has been there probably 10 years. Apparently the side ditch was there at the time. The complaining neighbor later had the ditch improved by adding rocks.

The neighbor wants me to extend the pipe to the ditch along the road. This will be somewhat challenging because the land transitions to uphill between the current outlet and the street. It is also in close proximity to utilities. I suggested we could run the pipe through the ditch, which wouldn't require any digging. I also suggested I buy the problematic piece of land. The neighbor seemed agitated by both suggestions.

This side yard ditch is where water flows naturally. If the drainage system wasn't there, the water would end up there anyway. In fact, in heavy downpours, the drainage gets overwhelmed and a river forms in front of and behind my house that flows to the ditch in the side yard.

Some questions I have:

- Does it matter that I didn't actually do this?
- Does it matter that it has been like this for a long time?
- Does it matter that my neighbor improved the ditch to accommodate the drainage.
- If I leave it as it is, what is my neighbor's recourse? ie if she sues and wins, what would I be ordered to do?
- If I didn't have the drainage system and the water flowed there just the same, would the neighbor have a valid complaint? If that's the case, does it matter that the water comes out of the drainage pipe or flows naturally?

2/23/2014 4:30:03 PM

Here's some pics.


You can see, there is a ditch along the road and on the right.


The drain outlets are on the bottom right. The property line is about a foot to the right of the outlets. The rocks and water are on the neighbors property.

[Edited on February 23, 2014 at 4:56 PM. Reason : ?]

2/23/2014 4:55:32 PM

I know drainge, but not how residential laws apply here. What exactly is the complaint? I see the neighbor's "improvements" which didn't work, likely because whoever did it didn't know what they were doing. Is the ditch draining more than your 2 properties (e.g. does it come from properties behind you)? If so, AFAIK, there's nothing the neighbor can make you to do, as drainage ways are more like easements (even if not legally called an easement); however, if you (or previous owners) have done something to change the hydrology/hydraulics and it causes damage, then you could be held liable for the damage... I think.

I don't see the point in extending your pipes when there is a ditch right there. And it won't solve the apparent issue, unless your two drains are the primary source of water to the ditch. The issue is the ditch and erosion control. You need some stone at the end of your pipes and the ditch needs a defined channel. Throwing a bunch of rocks on the ground doesn't help much. The water has obviously done what water does and found the path of least resistance (formed an incised channel beside the rock).

If you two were going to fix this, then you would take up all of that rock, grade in a proper channel, large enough to handle common flows (10-year event), lay down some filter fabric/high quality landscape fabric, then some NCDOT A and B stone. Be sure to incorporate point sources (such as your 2 drains), e.g. , wrap fabric and stone around those.

[Edited on February 23, 2014 at 5:13 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2014 5:06:25 PM

Her complaint is that the pipes are dumping water on to her property. I suppose she would disagree as to whether the side ditch qualifies as a ditch. But it seems clear to me that it does now.

As far as function, it works pretty well and would work great if she would let me grade the incision a little better. True, the rocks she put down are comical, as they are on the high ground. The water just flows beside them.

I agree that fixing the ditch would make more sense, but she's standing on principal. But I'm not sure she's standing on firm ground. I'm tempted to offer to split the cost of fixing the ditch right, but it would probably be cheaper for me to just extend my pipes to the ditch, since that is a job I could do myself.

I was reading up on common law, and it seems I'm pretty well in the clear there. The side yard is where the water would go without the drains, I think a reasonable person would consider the side ditch a reasonable place to outlet water, and I can't conceive of any monetary damages to the neighbors property. But, I also want to be a good neighbor and she gets agitated at any solution that involves her property. I'm not sure if there are any municipal laws I should be concerned with.

From what I was reading, her main recourse would be to fill in the ditch.

[Edited on February 23, 2014 at 5:52 PM. Reason : ?]

2/23/2014 5:49:14 PM

If you extend your pipes in that ditch, they'll be on your neighbor's property, no? Would she appreciate that? You'll also need to use internal couplers and probably screws, or the extensions will likely come loose during a good sized storm.

Where does the ditch start?

In the end, if you all don't fix the actual problem, the issue won't go away. Extend the pipes all you want, but water will still flow to the ditch and continue to erode that area and look like crap. And you can't help it that a neighbor has a ditch on their property which draws water to it. I wouldn't give in but so much to this lady. And let her fill the ditch, it will reform in a hurry if there's that much land area feeding it.

Another option is to abandon these pipes and just let your downspouts discharge to your yard; what's the harm in that? Get some splash pads and call it done. The water will still go to the ditch, but it won't be piped.

[Edited on February 23, 2014 at 7:27 PM. Reason : .]

2/23/2014 7:26:49 PM

What she wants me to do is follow the property line and daylight into the ditch along the street. It would still immediately flow into her property, but she is OK with it being in that ditch.

I made the point to her that even with my drainage system, a lot of water still drains into the side ditch. She said she was going to fix the ditch, after I move the pipe. Basically, she is still pissed at the previous owner for doing this and she is trying to right a past wrong I guess. I'm not sure why she's taking it out on me.

The side ditch starts about 25' back from the first picture I posted. It doesn't run the whole length of either of our properties.

So the drainage serves more than just the downspouts. There are a series of three drains in the back and there is one in the driveway that catches runoff from the houses uphill from mine and the driveway. There are also french drains (still discovering more) and a sump in the crawlspace. Even with all this drainage, my yard is a swamp half the time. So I couldn't imagine abandoning it. The biggest thing the drainage achieves is preventing 2 rivers from forming in my yard which cause a lot of damage to landscaping. Even with the drainage, this happens 1-2 times per year.

2/23/2014 7:40:12 PM

Quote :

"Her complaint is that the pipes are dumping water on to her property."

NOW it all makes sense.

2/23/2014 8:09:11 PM

Offer to extend the pipes if she will sign a contract waiving her right to request or file suit regarding any future water flow changes, erosion, or other complaints/maintenance related to the said ditch.

Otherwise, offer to fix it the right way, splitting the cost with her.

2/25/2014 11:09:00 AM

That's not a bad idea.

2/25/2014 11:30:01 AM

Doing it her way, she loses the right to complain in the future. Doing it your way, she doesnt lose the right, but pays for half the work to get it done the right way. Win Win for you.

2/25/2014 11:44:23 AM

I talked to Durham Wastewater and they said that nothing was improper and that she can't do anything to force me to move it. He said that she is required by ordinance to maintain any ditches and it would be unlawful for her to do anything to block the water from flowing. He said that water flows downhill and that once it crosses the property line, it is her water. I'm hoping my neighbor will chill and we can approach this from how can WE improve the drainage together.

2/25/2014 3:50:22 PM

A+. I figured as much

2/25/2014 4:07:06 PM

looks rather tranquil to me.

2/25/2014 4:33:40 PM

Drainage law in NC is pretty much you are allowed to reasonably develop your property. You aren't diverting water it looks like that is where it flows naturally. You are good.

2/25/2014 6:37:05 PM

Quote :

"North Carolina long adhered to the Civil Law Rule in regard to surface water drainage. This rule obligates owners of lower land to receive the natural flow of surface water from higher lands. It subjects a landowner to liability whenever he interferes with the natural flow of surface waters to the detriment of another in the use and enjoyment of his land. Since almost any use of land involves some change in drainage and water flow, a strict application of the civil law principles was impracticable in a developing society. Thus, a more moderate application of this rule to allow a landowner reasonable use of his property evolved. The North Carolina Supreme Court formally adopted the Rule of Reasonable Use with respect to surface water drainage and abandoned the Civil Law Rule (Pendergrast V. Aiken) in August 1977. The adopted Reasonable Use Rule allows each landowner to make reasonable use of his land even though by doing so, he alters in some way the flow of surface water thereby harming other landowners, liability being incurred only when this harmful interference is found to be unreasonable and causes substantial damage. "

[Edited on February 25, 2014 at 6:41 PM. Reason : .]

2/25/2014 6:40:44 PM

I just had major deja vu. Then I realized someone else reads City Data

2/26/2014 8:21:00 AM

Haha, yea. I think I'm done with that place. Worse trolling than Chit Chat.

2/26/2014 9:14:43 AM

^we will step up our game. Sorry to fail you

[Edited on February 26, 2014 at 1:26 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2014 1:26:18 PM

Quote :

" He said that water flows downhill and that once it crosses the property line, it is her water."

Somehow I find this hilarious and awesome.

6/19/2014 5:08:04 PM

I wouldn't do a damned thing until and unless she starts being cool. I wouldn't even slightly enable bitch behavior. I wouldn't even discuss it with her unless she starts being cool.

6/19/2014 9:23:16 PM

It basically comes down to this: don't buy property that is lower in elevation than neighboring properties if you're going to bitch about water. The hydrology of the land existed long before you did. This is very similar to buying property next to a farm and then bitching about smells.

It's one thing if you cut/fill the terrain on your property and do major grading (she would have a case in this instance). Building and maintaining a house is considered "reasonable use," so the water is her problem once it gets to her property...plain and simple.

6/19/2014 10:37:56 PM