Just for shits and giggles today, I googled aspartame and depression, as my episodes tend to be somewhat cyclic, with numerous stimuli instigating and exacerbating depressive periods in life. And now it seems to be cycling high.

I got a bajillion hits. Obviously, we get a heckuva lot of conspiracy theories, anecdotal testimonies with little to no valid supportive evidence, and what looks like decent research and studies, though by organizations of questionable validity.

Any of you have any good input on this? Valid sources of real, pertinent studies?

4/5/2013 10:34:43 AM

I'm willing to bet that you find a similar litany of results for just about any substance. Nevertheless, it's something that's pretty easy to cut from your diet. Try it out and see what happens.

4/5/2013 11:04:01 AM

From my very scientific study with a sample size of one I drink a buttload of diet dr peppers and don't find myself overly depressed.

4/5/2013 11:04:50 AM

Yea I love the health nut friends who decided to cut aspartame and magically started feeling better. Of course it could be that they also started on a new diet and exercise regime, but that probably had nothing to do with it.

What would be really telling is to do a blind study telling folks they are cutting out aspartame and see how many are positively affected but still give half of them diet sodas. Would be funny to find a lot of people saying they sleep better, are less depressed, lose weight, etc. and it all be in their damn head.

4/5/2013 11:10:22 AM

Therein lies the whole thing...where the hell are the double-blind trials by universities or by the FDA or by some official, objective organization?

And why do my interwebs have to be cluttered by so much worthless garbage?

4/5/2013 11:15:57 AM

^ Studies are expensive.

4/5/2013 11:17:24 AM

I agree with darkone. If you're worried about it just cut it out of your diet and track your results (tracking in a journal or notepad doc is probably key here). I think that's the best method for everything. All the studies in the world may be inconclusive or incomplete. What works for 99% of the population may not work for you. We're all in the 1% of something. Maybe in 100 years we'll have a full understanding of how the body works, but for now I think studies should just be a basis for your own experimentation to see what works best for your body and mind.

Looking at the things people have undergone throughout history to survive and/or make a better future for themselves I've come to believe you can do almost anything for 90 days and get your own results. I promise 90 days without caffeine, gluten, lactose, corn syrup, flouride, aspartame, or whatever else you're worried about won't hurt you. Don't try to go 90 days without food/water/oxygen, but you get the point.

Depression makes every task in your life harder, but if aspartame is one of the sources of your problem staying off it should get easier the longer you stick with it. It's easier to just cut it out than to theorize what cutting it out will do for you. Who knows...It may provide a placebo effect that helps break the cycle of depression. Either way, you have nothing to lose.

[Edited on April 5, 2013 at 11:20 AM. Reason : s]

4/5/2013 11:19:39 AM

^ ^That and too many variables. You would also have to follow the patients for a long period of time, 10 years, and maybe even more to see any significant correlation. And that costs money!

The government is also hesitant to finance things that are difficult to explain mechanistically.

[Edited on April 5, 2013 at 11:23 AM. Reason : .]

4/5/2013 11:22:59 AM

i thought i'd read something a while ago about phenylketonuria, tyrosine, and depression

but i might be making that up

4/5/2013 11:54:49 AM

All I know is that when I drank diet sodas I tended to be hungry ALL THE TIME, so naturally I gained weight. So I would say I was depressed but I don't know if it was because of the aspartame or the weight gain. It's totally worth it to stop drinking them though. I feel so much better physically and mentally.

I stopped drinking sodas all together for a year and now I drink one every couple months, but I make sure it's a regular soda. Overall, I eat a lot better now and I'm a much happier person so I encourage everyone to make their diet better. I mean I have been slacking on that somewhat lately, but I still feel way better than when I was drinking sodas all the time.

4/5/2013 11:55:35 AM

^ robert lustig mentioned that on the diane rehm show a couple of months ago...your brain tells your body you're about to take in something sweet and so triggers an insulin response

http://theprimalparent.com/2011/09/22/fructose-hunger-energy-leptin-insulin/

Quote :

"“Insulin makes you feel like crap.” Keeping your insulin levels low will actually result in higher energy, less carb cravings, and better leptin sensitivity. “When your insulin goes down, you don’t crave carbs.” Leptin helps to regulate your appetite and energy expenditure. When you’re leptin resistant, you won’t get a sugar high, your body will try to conserve energy and find more food. Lustig says that “if we could fix leptin resistance, there wouldn’t be obesity.” And that the very act of losing weight makes you more leptin sensitive and so you have more energy and less food cravings. “Insulin blocks leptin,” so that your body thinks it’s in a state of starvation even when it technically isn’t."

[Edited on April 5, 2013 at 12:09 PM. Reason : full disclosure: note: these are notes someone took at a lecture of lustig's, but they're correct]

4/5/2013 12:07:58 PM

^ In terms of leptin resistance, I started eating 30-40G protein for breakfast within 30 minutes of waking up last year and it made a huge difference in my hunger/cravings after about 3 weeks in. I did 3 eggs scrambled up with some meat (ham, chicken, sausage are great) and half a scoop of protein powder (~12g protein) 7 days a week. After about 3 weeks my lunchtime hunger started coming in much later in the day (2:30-4:30 instead of 11:30 a.m.-12:30 p.m.) and I found that I could easily skip lunch and go straight to dinner if I wanted to. I started eating lunch or snacks because I knew I needed to rather than because I wanted to.

It's hard to prioritize breakfast when we all have so many other things to do. It made me late for work quite a few times. It was hard to force myself out of bed as soon as I woke up to start cooking every single day. In the end it was worth it and I've continued to follow this 4-5 days a week for the last several months.

Here's some reading on it, but this guy recommends much more protein than I was taking in:
http://www.jackkruse.com/my-leptin-prescription/
(I'm not advocating or supporting his statements...It's just the first thing that popped up in my google search. I don't personally feel like I have a strong enough understanding of how Leptin, T3, and T4 work to make any claims on the subject other than the fact that it seemed to work for me.)

[Edited on April 5, 2013 at 12:29 PM. Reason : l]

4/5/2013 12:20:09 PM

^ that and more fiber make a lot of difference, i think

and folks who skip breakfast really should try eating something solid before worrying about anything else...it's amazing what a difference eating like you should can make

4/5/2013 12:27:12 PM

i'm diabetic and manage it entirely by diet. i've read that stuff about artificial sweeteners (and also some that contradict it), but just based on my personal experience i can't do artificial sweeteners because they make me crave carbs. i don't need to know anything about it personally, because for me I can't do those because they make me crave carbs which ultimately makes me slip up and eat some so my glucose spikes up and down. i definitely feel pretty down and depressed when my glucose is jumping around, I'm much happier and in a better mood when its stable.

since i only use diet to manage mine, i eat on an exact schedule with a closely regulated amount of carbs (and make sure they include some fiber and protein). I also make sure that one of the small meals is immediately before bed and has some fiber, it prevents my levels from getting too low at night so i don't feel terrible in the morning or wake up in a cold sweat when my body starts to pump adrenaline to compensate for low glucose levels. then i make sure my next small meal is immediately in the morning when i make up.

i always felt terrible until i learned i was diabetic, often grumpy and depressed. but that could be not at all what is going on with you.

tldr;
cutting artificial sweeteners and regulating carbs makes me happier and in a better mood (it works for my situation at least)

4/5/2013 12:58:37 PM

My 2 cents: Just like most artificial things we eat as humans (high fructose corn syrup, highly processed foods, etc.) it's probably not very good for us. Having a few a week shouldn't kill you or significantly increase your risk of cancer, but I wouldn't go about drinking 2 L a day of the stuff.

I stopped drinking 2 Coke Zeros a day this semester, because I know it's probably bad for me. I haven't significantly changed my diet or exercise routine, and I've lost 5 lb. I drink green tea in the afternoon instead and I don't feel those major mood fluctuations I used to.

4/5/2013 1:14:48 PM

My 2 cents: don't drink sugar or fake sugar. They're both bad for you. I don't like sweet things in general. Why would I enjoy fake sweet things.

[Edited on April 5, 2013 at 1:17 PM. Reason : s]

4/5/2013 1:17:13 PM

Cocaine Aspartame The mind is a helluva drug

4/5/2013 1:45:01 PM

also...exercise

i have no idea what you've tried, but my google-educated opinion and personal experience is that an eating schedule (smaller meals with fruits or nuts as snacks in between), minimization of artificially- (or overly-) sweetened foods, and regular exercise (planet fitness usually has a $10/month special going on) will go a looooooooong way toward making you* feel better

*i recognize that it's not that simple for everyone...i just think it's a good place to start

4/5/2013 2:28:43 PM

I go to the gym now more than ever in my life, and mentally I've never felt worse.

4/5/2013 2:49:54 PM

yellow #5 all over again

^you go to the gym and do mindles lifting or running; nothing that causes you to think or make quick decisions thats my guess

[Edited on April 5, 2013 at 3:17 PM. Reason : d]

4/5/2013 3:16:48 PM

well i'm in the best shape I've ever been in.

Outside of the gym i go mtn biking (and skiing in the winter).

Not sure what you're suggesting?

4/5/2013 3:50:33 PM

Mentally you've never felt worse

Mental

4/5/2013 5:32:53 PM

i didn't feel "bad" mentally before i started going to the gym...but i feel better now (part of that was losing weight and feeling better about myself, physically)

i read while on the elliptical 2-3 times per week and i do yoga twice a week...the yoga has made a huge difference and i love it

4/5/2013 5:40:50 PM

^Same. GF finally got me doing yoga 1-2 times a week. Huge difference in how I feel.

4/5/2013 8:09:33 PM

i'd love to start yoga, but i'd feel dumb the first few times so i haven't

4/5/2013 8:57:08 PM

The first time I couldn't stop myself from laughing after all the up and down dogs.

Relevant:

4/5/2013 8:59:47 PM

Quote :

"I go to the gym now more than ever in my life, and mentally I've never felt worse."

same here. not sure what the fuck is going on.

4/5/2013 10:23:51 PM

Bingo. Gym time doesn't help much. If at all. I swear, it seems the older I get, the worse I feel.

40 was not bad. 42 is a real bitch. I don't know if I'll make it to 50 without blowing my brains out. Seriously.

4/6/2013 12:38:29 AM

Vitamin D

4/6/2013 5:03:08 AM

^ All winter; every winter.

4/6/2013 2:28:34 PM

I used to have migraine headaches all the time as a child and my mom said the doctors linked it to aspartame. She stopped giving me her diet coke and I and stopped having headaches.

4/6/2013 4:54:25 PM

Probably the caffeine

4/6/2013 5:07:26 PM

I got migraines once a week or so back in the day when I ate like shit. I attribute it to swings in blood sugar. I've probably had one per year in the last 8 years. It was a good warning sign that I couldn't continue eating like that (fast food, junk food, and soda made up most of my diet.)

This thread has been all over the place lol. Sorry ZX!

[Edited on April 6, 2013 at 5:55 PM. Reason : l]

4/6/2013 5:52:25 PM

If I have too much aspartame, then I will sleep 18 hours a day and can't think straight. It also makes my Mom insane.

4/6/2013 10:12:04 PM

How are you managing to eat aspartame at all? That shit's gross.

4/7/2013 12:36:44 AM

I probably drink around a 2 liter of diet soda most days of the week and I'm fine*





*YMMV, definition of "fine" also negotiable

4/7/2013 6:58:15 PM

There is a anecdotal relationship between diet soda and major bladder issues. I would think about cutting back.

4/7/2013 9:37:56 PM

^^my boss is an oncologist and he drinks diet coke every day. he ain't worried!

4/8/2013 12:13:14 AM

I stopped taking mega doses of Vitamin D about a month ago, but I can't really tell much if any difference. Started back a couple days ago, and nothing better yet, but we'll see.

4/8/2013 4:19:12 PM

Wow, amazing how educated people are so ignorant about the very things they are supposed to be educated about. Sad.

4/8/2013 6:56:09 PM

Warning this has no medical fact in it what-so-ever but it's how i reason myself to just have the real thing and work out some (not enough right now tho)

so... your body has a response to sugar that kicks it into over drive see "sugar rush"

Now after you switch to fake sugars your body still has a sugar rush... but with no sugar to process.

After a while you train your body not to have a sugar rush.

then you eat sugar... and get fat because your body is all like "THIS IS THAT BULLSHIT THAT DOESN'T WORK DON'T FALL FOR IT"

i also think when your body grabs ahold of not sugar and tries to make it work where sugar works... there is a good chance of wonky shit happening.

4/9/2013 9:34:28 AM

That's false. There is no insulin response to diet sodas/calorie free drinks. There could be something psychological going on there; maybe you get cravings for chips and candy when you taste soda, something like that, and obviously if you act on those cravings it has an impact. Your body doesn't "try" to use the chemicals in artificial sweetener for energy, though.

No one is immune to or exempt from the laws of thermodynamics. If you could trick your body into getting fat, there wouldn't be starvation anywhere in the world.

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 9:48 AM. Reason : ]

4/9/2013 9:43:02 AM

^^ Humans get fat when they eat more calories than they burn. Please stop spreading shit you've apparently just made up that sounds plausible.

4/9/2013 12:51:04 PM

with all this conjecture and anecdotal evidence, here are some facts about aspartame:

-more so a protein than a carb because it's made of phenylalanine and aspartic acid (and methanol)

-it does have calories (4kcal/g), but since it's 200x sweeter than sucrose, only a small amount is needed to obtain the desired sweetness

-it has been approved and endorsed by World Health Org, American Medical Asco, and American Diabetes Asoc

-does not cause tooth decay

-damaged by heat and will lose sweetness if used for cooking

-FDA set the acceptable daily intake (ADI) as 50mg/kg body weight, which is around 20 cans of diet soda

So let me ask everyone - which would you rather consume, high fructose corn syrup or a non-nutritive sweetener (like aspartame)?

4/9/2013 2:25:10 PM

Neither. I'll consume sugar on occasion in the form of fruit or juice but aspartame just tasks nasty. Anything diet tasks bad. I don't even like soda. Y'all are crazy who drink diet things.

In fact the best soda to drink:



Shit is awesome. Slightly flavored sparkling water. No sugar and no fake shit.

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 2:58 PM. Reason : s]

4/9/2013 2:56:11 PM

^agreed. shit tastes horrible.

I'll drink my regular coke over diet anything. I just drink it sparingly, i.e. less than 20 oz per week.

4/9/2013 3:00:32 PM

Quote :

"There is no insulin response to diet sodas/calorie free drinks."

uh, you're wrong...ever heard of the cephalic phase?

4/9/2013 3:31:17 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7652029

Please go.

4/9/2013 3:40:35 PM

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18556090

you first. mine's 13 years newer than yours, too.

4/9/2013 4:28:46 PM

From 2009: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/32/12/2184.short

Dark line diet soda, dotted line carbonated water:



And from 2010: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20619074

The body of literature on the topic doesn't support the claim that very low/no calorie sweeteners have any significant impact on insulin release, and certainly not on fat gain. While taste stimulus may have some effect on gastrointestinal functions (a response to optimize/prepare for digestion), the energy needs of the body don't change due to this response.

[Edited on April 9, 2013 at 5:00 PM. Reason : ]

4/9/2013 4:48:10 PM