I have a lawyer friend will to work for free, so if I don't go through with this I'm out about $7000.

Basically things were going fine at first, it was a nice pay as you go setup.

He completed about $2000 worth of work. The next phase required a bunch of windows and roofing materials, so I paid for that.

Delivery time to his warehouse was extremely long, but he hasn't been out here since the beginning of June to actually do anything.

Seems at the very least I'd have a case for theft since those are my materials I've purchased. He won't answer my (friendly) emails, texts, or voicemails.

My realtor and lawyer have both tried to contact him in a friendly manner, and even when he answers he is non-responsive to doing any work.

It's always a big sob story about his partner screwing him and he can't find any help. His wife is pregnant, his crew chief's wife is in the hospital, his father in law has had a stroke.

Now this is a small county and my realtor and I checked everything out; these stories are legit and this dude has had a seriously rough summer. I can't loan 7k to people for months on end at zero interest though, and I'm not a particularly compassionate person in the first place.

I was aware of some of these problems earlier this summer, but at least at the time he had a schedule. "We will be out there on Sept 7th at 8am, see you then!" He was optimistic about beginning work again and apologized for the delays, even offered to waive part of the end balance.

But then a no show. So we are all really just scratching our heads here. I know contractors can be notorious about this sort of thing, and I honestly should have researched the guy more. In the Lake Norman area however, he came highly recommended and works on tons of houses more expensive than mine as well as high dollar historic restorations.

I'm pretty sure I'm not going to see my money or materials again, at least that's what I'm expecting, but what course of action would you pursue? I only brought a lawyer into it when he became non-responsive. I mean to me you just can simply clam up for a month when you have that much of someone's money and they have nothing to show for it.

I know the worst case scenario is he declares bankruptcy and vanishes. At the same time I know enough about him to know he isn't actually licensed and he officially dissolved his company in 2010. While that makes me look fucking stupid for actually hiring him, and makes my realtor look bad for recommending/using him, it actually works to my advantage as I know now I can go after him personally and not the non-existent business.

Meaning I know he has a house here, a house in Blowing Rock, several expensive vehicles, etc. He has the means to make this right, in other words, even if he has to be forced.

I appreciate any/all opinions! Even the inevitable critical/mean/stupid ones

This is my first house AND renovation. Something like this I suppose was bound to happen. Won't happen again that's for sure.

9/22/2012 8:32:34 AM

Show up with a moving truck, retrieve your materials.

Then watch him as he sleeps.

9/22/2012 9:15:39 AM

Maybe just say you will sue him. He may just give it up.

Also next time don't pay up front.

9/22/2012 10:46:47 AM

Well I didn't pay up front until a hefty amount of materials were needed.

In hindsight should have ordered them directly/had them delivered to me.

Still, seems like if threat of a lawsuit doesn't work, cops arresting him for theft would. Drop charges if work commences/money is refunded.

9/22/2012 10:59:37 AM

So he has all your stuff in his garage? I would tell him you're calling the cops.

9/22/2012 11:05:12 AM

his partner screwed him. big whup. he can do the work himself

his wife is pregnant? so what? my wife's pregnant and she works 40 hours a week.

9/22/2012 11:37:44 AM

Yes, contact him and let him know that unless materials or money is refunded you will be suing him.

9/22/2012 11:48:40 AM

I think you've passed the "threat of a lawsuit"...just go ahead and file suit. You say $7,000?? In my county, small claims is anything under $7,500...I know the highest ones are usually $10,000. Easy to file in small claims and usually not that expensive.

Won't take up much of your time, not too pricey, and will get the quickest results. You've given this guy plenty of time....stop fucking around and REALLY get his attentions.

9/22/2012 12:17:06 PM

Go to his house with a truck. Tell him you want your stuff. If he says ok, take it and warn everyone you know not to do business with him. If he says buzz off, then call the cops.


Or just come back that night with some friends and shotguns.

9/22/2012 12:57:26 PM

He never ordered your materials, he used that money for payroll, other bills, etc. showing up with a truck to get your shit would be pointless

9/22/2012 2:21:48 PM

Is his company bonded? Did you have a contract for the work? If so you are covered.

9/22/2012 2:36:19 PM

^^ yea unless you've seen the materials, that's probably accurate

9/22/2012 3:14:49 PM

Thanks for most of the comments, guys.

Looks like the threat got his butt in gear, although he won't talk to me, just my lawyer (fine with me).

We will see if he keeps his word Monday!

9/22/2012 8:16:23 PM

good luck with this... my mom had some guy paint her house only to not finish the job (of course in that instance he didn't collect the majority of his pay either.)

9/23/2012 3:11:41 AM

I'm with smc on this one

9/23/2012 8:12:06 AM

Quote :

"his wife is pregnant? so what? my wife's pregnant and she works 40 hours a week. "

Exactly. Anyone trying to use a pregnant wife as an excuse for why he can't complete a contract on time gets a gigantic from me.

9/24/2012 8:36:44 AM

Ahaha, motherfucker told my lawyer to call back tomorrow.

Update pending-

9/24/2012 2:20:04 PM

Chances of you getting your money or the stuff he supposedly bought with that money are low

9/24/2012 2:37:13 PM

not if

Quote :

"Is his company bonded? Did you have a contract for the work? If so you are covered."

9/24/2012 2:51:29 PM

I have a feeling if he was bonded this would have already been resolved without having to come to TWW.

And a contract don't mean shit. Every person I've known to get screwed by a contractor had a contract in hand, went to court, had a ruling in their favor, and the contractor then turns around and declares bankruptcy so they never see a penny. It's like there's a textbook handed out to sheisty contractors on how to get away with robbing clients.

9/24/2012 3:07:03 PM

contract + bonded = not screwed in that case

9/24/2012 3:21:27 PM

Not bonded, I have a contract.

Fairly certain he's even operating without a license at this point, so his company declaring bankruptcy means nothing to me at this point.

I'll go after the individual, and I know he has plenty of assets.

If that doesn't work I'll go after my realtor for pushing this guy on me knowing full well he wasn't qualified.

9/24/2012 3:45:01 PM

Quote :

"Not bonded, I have a contract. "

See

I really feel for you. I've known too many people to go through the same sort of shenanigans. Has taught me to never hire someone who isn't bonded watching their experiences.

9/24/2012 3:50:14 PM

Oh trust me, my lawyer is going to investigate the shit out of anyone I use next time and have them sign her on contract rather than any shit they draw up.

If they have a problem with that they can kiss my ass.

9/24/2012 3:52:22 PM

Do a search of the North Carolina General Contractors Database. If he is unlicensed, he could be breaking the law (depending on whether our not the work needed to be permitted).

^^ All a bond is is an insurance policy that the contractor will complete the work and pay for the materials (so there isn't a risk of liens). Most of the time they add 1 to 2% to the total cost. The owner ultimately ends up paying for it.

To the OP, I don't know how it typically works in residential, but we are paid monthly for work in place and can bill stored materials if they are on site. Never prepay. It pisses me off when contractors do shady stuff. It makes a bad name for the rest of us.

9/24/2012 11:30:25 PM

Yeah, my rate is 1.4% for p&p bond for most of the things I have to deal with

9/25/2012 7:23:41 AM

^^^

I hope you pay him when he does this. Nothing worse than being an attorney with a bunch of free-loading friends.

Quote :

"I have a lawyer friend will to work for free"

9/25/2012 7:31:31 AM

Lawyers just love the law!

9/25/2012 7:49:30 AM

More like they just like the fact they are the only lawyer in our group of friends and are very good at their job.

They get off on showing off, in other words.

I've already offered to pay, but we'll see if they actually take me up on it.

Roof is being worked on today, should be finished today or tomorrow.

Windows are another story however... I don't know how long they've been in his possession, but apparently they're just now noticing they were damaged during shipping. They were custom-made too, so it's gonna take awhile to get new ones.

Personally I think they've had them for well over a month, and didn't bother looking at them until threats starting being made. Now they're all like "uh oh."

Anyway, conflicting reports on the windows saying between 1 and 3 weeks. Lawyer at this point is just going to get him to sign something legally binding with a finish date and an understanding that my outstanding balance is hereby nullified.

9/25/2012 11:11:11 AM

He may not need a contractors license to do a job that size. I do not know the rules, but I thought the cost of work had to be 25k or 30k to require a GC license.

9/26/2012 11:16:16 AM

$30k, but no HVAC, electrical, or plumbing. I don't do anything in residential stuff, but I'm pretty sure a homeowner can act as their own GC so they might have some more flexibility.

9/26/2012 12:06:48 PM

I'm always weary of contractors esp since most want money upfront.

My parents lost around $4000 after hiring someone to pave the parking lot of their restaurant, only to find out the guy skipped town the next day to take a "Las Vegas" vacation.

9/26/2012 12:45:52 PM

Some jurisdictions require a license period. Some will also require a homeowner to pass a test (basically a Contractor exam) before allowing them to do some work (Boone or Watauga comes to mind).

Quote :

"I'm always weary of contractors esp since most want money upfront. My parents lost around $4000 after hiring someone to pave the parking lot of their restaurant, only to find out the guy skipped town the next day to take a "Las Vegas" vacation."

We require a third up front, third upon material arrival (basically when we begin construction), and final third minus $500-2000 upon substantial completion). For each contractor out there that skips town, there's probably 5 customers that won't pay. We had over $160k in unpaid invoices just in our Service Dept. in 2010-2011. 4 lawsuits alone last year and several more written off as not being worth pursuing. Contractors aren't like mechanics. If you don't pay, we don't get to keep your house/addition/work until you do. We have to spend time & money in the HOPES that we will get what we're owed. That's why you won't find many contractors that have been in business long or that are in demand that don't get a sizable deposit up front. We start getting a bit more relaxed when business slows but we've been in business for over 30 years and usually keep a 2-3 month backlog for sunroom additions. Whether a contractor charges a deposit or not should really be the last thing you look at when trying to decide who to hire.


[Edited on September 27, 2012 at 12:55 PM. Reason : .]

9/27/2012 12:38:19 PM

Quote :

"If you don't pay, we don't get to keep your house/addition/work until you do."

Isn't that what liens are for? Granted it doesn't affect anything until the house sells but you can't easily sell a car not in your name if the owner doesn't pay up either.

9/27/2012 6:17:44 PM

^Most people spending money on additions/renovations/etc. (really any large sum of money) aren't going to be selling their house anytime soon.

9/27/2012 7:14:55 PM

Or they are trying to spend 7k to increase the house value by 15k? From what I've heard, its not uncommon to renovate bits and pieces here and there to increase the perceived value of a house.

Granted my source is TV shows where they help people increase the value of their home and make it more attractive to sell, so what do I know .

9/27/2012 10:53:08 PM

I'm glad my experience with a shady plumber only involved $120, and he gave me a refund in exchange for me not publishing his name in connection with not finding where a gas line had been crushed with bolt cutters and was leaking there. He didn't even look at the all the gas lines.

9/28/2012 3:23:42 PM

You had a plumber working on your gas lines?

9/28/2012 3:52:19 PM

^ lots of plumbers work on gas. Who do you think installs Gas Water Heaters?

9/28/2012 6:39:35 PM

They run gas service to it? News to me.

9/28/2012 8:13:26 PM

Around here they do.

9/29/2012 1:03:08 AM

plumbers absolutely run gas lines. some also do (fire) sprinklers.

I always hear sob stories about contractors, most of the time (and I have no idea if this is the case this time) the person got screwed because they hired some jackleg in a truck.

If you hire bullshit contractors you get bullshit results. STOP HIRING THESE FOOLS. It happens a lot more now than it used to..probably because a) people expect to get a "great" deal due to the economy and trouble the construction industry has had and b) this area is a great place to live and the economy is better compared to everywhere else and out of state guys are moving in to try and take work on the cheap. Again, I have no idea the OP's situation, but I bet contractor wasnt licensed, didnt have insurance or references or something along those lines.

There are those of us out here that spend a lot time and money to have the proper licensing and insurance, we join the BBB and local chamber of commerce. We build a network of references. WE WILL BE A LITTLE MORE EXPENSIVE. But we also wont fuck you over.

9/30/2012 2:46:29 PM

also, I almost always ask for a deposit. thats pretty standard. usually I set milestone payments with the customer.

9/30/2012 2:48:38 PM

^^ I'll add to that about people complaining also being people that don't read their damn contracts. I have to put out fires all the time with customers when I go to a job site and go over everything and then they say "well I thought we were getting this too, we talked about it when the salesman was here." Well you and the salesman talked about a bunch of shit. If it's not in the contract, you're not getting it (unless it's in his pricing which happens about once a year). I don't understand why people will sign a contract for $20-100k and NOT READ IT!

9/30/2012 5:54:12 PM

Quote :

"I always hear sob stories about contractors, most of the time (and I have no idea if this is the case this time) the person got screwed because they hired some jackleg in a truck."

the well established contractors will try to fuck you over just as bad if they think they can get away with it, such as promising work during a site visit and trying to leave it out of the contract or claim that materials cost way more than they do.

9/30/2012 6:22:36 PM

Oh it's getting better.

For the second time now I'm being harassed by the subcontractors because the contractor isn't paying them. This kind of shit has already led to my paying for the gutters twice (in essence). Not going to happen with something as big as a roof.

This week should be interesting from a legal standpoint... After all is said and done I will be happy to plaster names, references, contact numbers, you name it.

You guys can then avoid them like the plague and also spam the shit out of them like Gregg Higher.

9/30/2012 6:23:21 PM

Quote :

"the well established contractors will try to fuck you over just as bad if they think they can get away with it, such as promising work during a site visit and trying to leave it out of the contract or claim that materials cost way more than they do."

which is why you always base your contract with a GC on design documents (blueprints and specs).

when you cut corners on scope definition things get left out or lost in translation.

the problem is, people dont want to pay the money up front to do these things and it usually ends up costing them more in the end.

9/30/2012 6:29:31 PM

Quote :

"For the second time now I'm being harassed by the subcontractors because the contractor isn't paying them. This kind of shit has already led to my paying for the gutters twice (in essence). Not going to happen with something as big as a roof."

are you still paying the GC direct? you should AT LEAST be doing a joint check and requiring a lien waver from any subcontractor.

9/30/2012 6:30:32 PM

Quote :

"which is why you always base your contract with a GC on design documents (blueprints and specs). "

most remodeling projects aren't big enough to justify blueprints, and the ones that are should still be bid off of unit prices and not lot pricing so that any change orders can be itemized.

9/30/2012 6:44:04 PM

I disagree. Most of my business is commercial remodels. every job I do I recommend drawings or at least a minimum set of design documents.

creating a scope of work/spec/blueprint can be done for a couple thousand. not to mention they are good to have to obtain a permit. they almost always save you money.

bidding on unit pricing is not efficient if there are subcontractors involved. take their bids, vet them, select one, then negotiate a change order rate and request receipts and back up with said change orders.

9/30/2012 6:55:17 PM