My friend had his AC unit looked at recently, and the guy said he had a coil leak. The guy told him that because of the R-22 phaseout, he would have to replace the whole system instead of replacing the coils.

I read a little about the phaseout on the EPA site (http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/homeowners_faq.html), and there's some stuff in there about not needing to replace equipment just because of the change.

Anyone here know enough about HVAC stuff to know if the tech was just feeding him some BS to sell a system? Is there an actual problem with replacing the coils? I know you can continue to work on and refill R-22 systems. Hell, they did ours just a month ago. Just trying to get a gauge if this is reasonable.

5/20/2012 6:26:57 PM

What they told your friend was half right.

You can still get the coils and R-22, but at a substantial expense. We just went through this with my house.

It was going to be $2000 to replace the coil and pray that the rest of the 12 year old system held out to make the $2000 worth it.

We ended up getting a new system.

5/20/2012 7:05:25 PM

I guess a follow up just cause I'm unaware: How long do AC units typically last?

5/20/2012 9:22:26 PM

20-30 years

5/20/2012 9:38:45 PM

^^depends how well it is sized, how well the rest of the system is designed, and how well it is maintained. 10-15 is pretty average, but if everything's done right you should be able to get 20 yrs out of a quality unit.

[Edited on May 20, 2012 at 10:39 PM. Reason : adsf]

5/20/2012 10:39:23 PM

^ +1

depending on sizing of unit/house size 20 yrs is pretty good.

if the system is old, get it replaced. If it is reasonably new, get it updated.

5/21/2012 12:15:18 AM

my unit was installed in 1990 and is still chugging along (with some minor maintenance over the years)

*fingers crossed*

5/21/2012 12:30:52 AM

So at this point (9 year old system), it's a tossup for him it sounds like. He could spend a little more to replace the parts (I assume he could find someone to do it) or he could just get a new system. I know his house has dual units, so it's only having to cool the downstairs.

I guess it's probably work asking this guy how much a new unit is, and then asking someone else who will do the repairs how much for those. I feel like an "old school" repairman (like my grandfather) would have fixed it and said "you're good to go", but a new guy or a company that's more about the money would just try to sell him a new system as it's more money for them. I've become jaded about repairmen.

5/21/2012 7:23:22 AM

^x5 my ac unit is 27 years old...it still "works" but is in no way efficient. I've been contemplating replacing it, but being that I want to move within the next year and a half, I can't justify paying ~$5k if I don't have to at this time.

5/21/2012 8:27:57 AM

ASHRAE released a proposal this year to hasten the phaseout of R-22 so it may be even more cost to just replace R-22 components. It probably won't be much cost difference to replace the entire system. Just my opinion.

5/21/2012 6:11:16 PM

Quote :

"How long do AC units typically last?"

Typically? I wouldn't assume any longer than 15 years for an average unit. Sure you'll find examples or longer ones but it's not the norm these days.

At 9 years, it really depends on exactly how much he is getting on quotes to repair it vs quotes to replace it (in both cases from multiple contractors). It's a little earlier than I would want to replace a system, but at the same time you have to look at the costs comparatively.

[Edited on May 21, 2012 at 9:20 PM. Reason : ]

5/21/2012 9:18:11 PM

I'm hoping someone can help me with an HVAC question.

I recently moved into a 2-story home (4-bed, 2.5 bath and 2000sf). It was built in 2004, and has a single HVAC unit with no zones. It stays anywhere from 5-10 degrees hotter upstairs depending on how hot it is outside. I currently have all the downstairs vents partially closed, with the upstairs fully opened to try and force more air our up there and that helps the temps some, but I know it's not great for the system. I also keep all the blinds closed, but its brutally hot during the day in the summer. We have to put the thermostat on 68-70 at night so we can sleep. What are my options? I would like to keep the cost down as much as possible since the entire unit will need to be replaced within the next 5 years or so anyway, and at that point I can either install a second unit or have it zoned. Window units are not an option.

6/19/2014 8:27:45 PM

Your problem sounds really familiar to one we had. Turns out there was no return vent upstairs. The vent had a filter in it but the ducting in the attic for the vent was terminated (inspector didn't catch that and neither did we). The previous owners turned the upstairs return duct into a supply duct and had two supply upstairs. They were trying to force air downstairs. It didn't work.

We got that corrected (and installed a split level unit for the upstairs) and haven't looked back. Our single unit was approaching 20 years old anyways. Really pricey to get everything reducted and install a new unit, but worth it.

You can get a dedicated unit for the upstairs and just use the old one for downstairs only. It would be oversized so watch for condensation build up. Thats one option.

[Edited on June 19, 2014 at 9:00 PM. Reason : ed]

6/19/2014 8:56:42 PM

the coil in my NC house just had to be replaced after ~4 years.

this is after the refrigerator having to be replaced after 2.5.

6/19/2014 9:18:54 PM

^^^ I didn't think closing the vents helped at all in newer homes.
Also, not sure why you are surprised it's 5-10 degrees hotter upstairs.
It has always been that way wherever I have lived.

6/20/2014 9:23:22 AM

It is really an air distribution and a controls issue. Anytime you have a single unit serving multiple floors you are going to have issues unless you have multiple zones with multiple thermostats (doesn't always fix the problem but helps a lot depending on the layout of the house) and multiple return intakes. In addition to that, your ductwork for your 2nd floor is most likely run in the attic which is the absolute worst place for ductwork to be run.

If you have a dedicated unit for each floor that is properly sized and installed, you would be able to maintain the design set-point on each floor. There is not a lot that can be done on the cheap to fix this issue.

6/20/2014 10:13:12 AM

^ultimately, the cheapest fix is to install window units in the upstairs bedrooms.

Quote :

"Also, not sure why you are surprised it's 5-10 degrees hotter upstairs. It has always been that way wherever I have lived."

Then you haven't lived in a properly designed and engineered house. I've lived in a house similar to that as described by chipendave, and it is absolutely horrible. The bottom line is that the HVAC system for that house was built on a pretty low budget. Anyone that buys a multi-level home that only has 1 zone thermostat is just asking for trouble.

The proper fix is either a second AC unit (or replacement of the existing old one with a larger unit), 2 zone thermostats (1 per floor) and a few motorized dampers in the ductwork to properly direct airflow as requested by the zone thermostats. Depending on the duct layout this could require some new ductwork as well.

I used to live in Trailwood Hills (rented) and suffered the same problem that chipendave mentioned. Liked the neighborhood well enough and considered buying a house in there (including the one I was renting - landlord wanted to sell) but I knew that every house built around there was built on the cheap with a horrible single zone thermostat control. And F that.

6/20/2014 3:05:19 PM

There is an old Trane Heat Pump at a condo I own that is original from 1983. I had it checked not too long ago and the tech told me not to mess with it, he said if you start screwing around it might break but there is no systems made these days that would ever last that long.

I dont think its particularly efficient but the condo is underground built in to the side of a hill so it doesent run that much due to only having one outside wall.

6/20/2014 5:22:11 PM

Quote :

"I'm hoping someone can help me with an HVAC question. I recently moved into a 2-story home (4-bed, 2.5 bath and 2000sf). It was built in 2004, and has a single HVAC unit with no zones.... What are my options? I would like to keep the cost down as much as possible since the entire unit will need to be replaced within the next 5 years or so anyway, and at that point I can either install a second unit or have it zoned. Window units are not an option."

I'd have a zone kit installed.

6/20/2014 5:30:46 PM

Are all those government rebates over?

6/20/2014 5:45:45 PM

Quote :

"Then you haven't lived in a properly designed and engineered house."

Hot air rises. I don't see why it's crazy to think the upstairs is always going to be 5 degrees hotter in a single zone system.

6/20/2014 6:06:13 PM

In a Trailwood Hills house now (renting) with some of these some problems even with 2 zones/2 thermostats... 4 bed/2.5 bath with the main room stretching up to the second floor and big windows, that combined with the house being built in the cheapest way possible, it just sucks in hot air. New HVAC was just installed a month ago and even with that, the upstairs was at 82 when I got home despite being set at 78. Downstairs set at 74. Power bill is stupid.

6/20/2014 9:37:12 PM