For those of you that know what Westside is...

Who would be interested in a full day westside seminar (9-5ish) with Westside certified staff? The main instructor would be Chris Mason, owner of AtLarge Nutrition. He's worked with Louie Simmons at all CF Westside certs and other Westside seminars.

The price would be around $300 for the whole day.

12/16/2011 12:19:14 PM

If you get this scheduled I am going to be so jealous I am not in NC anymore

12/16/2011 12:35:18 PM

I'd be interested, but I am not a huge fan Chris Mason.

How many do you need to pre-sign up to get the event scheduled?

[Edited on December 16, 2011 at 12:39 PM. Reason : ;]

12/16/2011 12:37:01 PM

^ just curious but why is that?

12/16/2011 12:38:13 PM

Whys that? Hopefully, whatever the reason, it can be put on the back burner....


Luke, you should just go ahead and plan on a weekend trip to NC

[Edited on December 16, 2011 at 12:41 PM. Reason : ]

12/16/2011 12:39:03 PM

His dogma for Westside and his obvious association with crossfit for profit motives.

He writes off Mark Rippetoe and Starting Strength for various reasons with out even reading the whole book.

I'm not saying his not an accomplished lifter or a bad coach. Just that some of the stuff he's written on his boards rubbed me the wrong way.

12/16/2011 12:41:03 PM

What date are you thinking about for this event?

If it were to happen, I would more than likely sign up for it, despite my previous comments.

12/16/2011 2:00:20 PM

It's still in the very early stages. We need at least 15 people so I wanted to feel out interest here before unleashing it upon my fellow CrossFit breatheren of the triangle.

It will probably be hosted at CrossFit Durham since they're the largest. I'll keep you updated as we move forward.

[Edited on December 16, 2011 at 2:05 PM. Reason : ]

12/16/2011 2:05:14 PM

Basic schedule:

A basic itinerary would be as follows:
- Open with discussion of the concepts of ME and DE days.
- Cover conjugate variety and its importance
- Discuss special exercises
- Lunch
- Nutrition and supplementation discussion
- Cover the specifics of upper and lower body ME and DE days (to include percentages etc.).
- Class participation drills where we show proper execution of many of the exercises used in the program.
- Q&A

Possibly February 11th or 18th...otherwise, not until April 7th or 14th.

12/16/2011 5:05:17 PM

that sounds really awesome.

but I can't afford that

12/17/2011 1:20:50 AM

When and where?

I'm in. Schedule it in Feb, so I can do a tour of Campbell' law school and NCSU' mba program the day before!

[Edited on December 17, 2011 at 1:56 PM. Reason : ]

12/17/2011 1:47:09 PM

Quote :

"Nutrition and supplementation discussion read gear"

12/17/2011 1:49:17 PM

^i was gonna say aren't Louie's guys notorious for this?

12/17/2011 7:06:27 PM

Louie himself is notorious for that; he doesn't even recommend cycling for his athletes.

12/18/2011 11:02:31 AM

It wil more than likely be the 11th or 18th of Feb.

It will be at CrossFit Durham.

I believe the address is 410 w geer st, durham

Supplementation will NOT include gear

12/18/2011 1:57:32 PM

Hurry up with the details, so I can see if I can get in reimbursed through work!!

[Edited on December 18, 2011 at 2:04 PM. Reason : I also will need to find someone to run my VITA site that weekend, too ]

12/18/2011 2:03:19 PM

Aside from Chris Mason, the other main instructors will be:

Justin Tooley

And

Sherrie Ramsey

Both are Westside certified among other certs.

12/18/2011 2:15:06 PM

Date set for Feb 18th

12/18/2011 3:26:45 PM

^ You CrossFit people are fun to watch, I saw a guy alternately dragging a tire and sprinting in front of the building
as I was biking by.

12/18/2011 3:41:54 PM

Now it's time for me to set my stuff up so I can be there!

12/18/2011 3:43:42 PM

^^but it feeeels soooooo good


when you're done

12/18/2011 4:06:23 PM

get dave tate

12/19/2011 8:27:00 AM

Dave Tate talks out both sides of his mouth. Fuck him and Chris Mason.

12/20/2011 2:25:37 PM

Dave Tate ran me over @ the 2008 Arnold Classic; he only apologized after I bowed up

12/20/2011 3:06:13 PM

How can you hate on a guy who writes gems like this:

http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/iron-brothers/efs-classic-im-amazed-at-what-people-dont-know/

12/20/2011 5:04:27 PM

It's all about pushin more weight and mass gains bro

12/20/2011 8:31:02 PM

more like eating junk food and downing copious amounts of oral steroids until your blood lipid profile resembles gravy, then posting online recommending that others follow your same half-ass techniques.

[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 9:13 PM. Reason : and then pushing your supplement line in-between sentences.]

12/20/2011 9:12:38 PM

^Welcome to the world of mainstream fitness marketing.

12/20/2011 9:17:51 PM

^^ Figure you would like Chris Mason then, his supplement company is one of the few that doesn't try and push a bunch of garbage

12/20/2011 10:11:14 PM

Chris Mason is the epitome of a supplement spokesperson pushing overhyped and overpriced supplements. Go to this seminar and you'll see for yourself. He'll give you 50 reasons why you need to be taking a whey/casein protein blend like the one he sells, and none of those reasons will have legitimate science backing them up.

[Edited on December 20, 2011 at 10:34 PM. Reason : but he's taking advantage of crossfit disciples, so I'm torn.]

12/20/2011 10:26:38 PM

Ok eleusis, what does your routine look like?

You should be happy CrossFitters are interested in Westside

As far as Chris Mason goes, shame on him if he doesn't recommend what he sells...it's his damn business.

12/20/2011 10:54:23 PM

I've stated numerous times that I don't have a problem with crossfit, as long as people are honest about what it is and it's strengths / weaknesses. What I have a major problem with is the pompousness of a lot of their members. For people that train for mediocrity, they sure do seem to think they are following the best training program known to man for every fucking thing. I'm even less thrilled about some of them watching a seminar that talks about WSB training principles and thinking that they're going to become strength athletes through crossfit.

But regardless, kudos to Chris Mason for ripping those douchebags off. He found an untapped gym resource that obviously has money to burn if they're paying $100+ a month in gym membership dues, and he's digging in deep with them. Just don't expect me or anyone else to take his supplement advice serious.

12/20/2011 11:25:16 PM

CrossFit, as it's written, is purely for GPP. Most reasonable people will admit that. Thats why the majority of us add in strength work and keep the conditioning under 15min...but then is that really CrossFit at that point? Who cares, it works better and it's more enjoyable (to me at least).

12/21/2011 6:33:07 AM

i don't know the guy, chris i guess??? that is doing the seminar.

from what i know about crossfit and my experience with Westside (through multiple cycles), it doesn't seem like the two can coexist. in fact, i know they cannot coexist.

the most roided up powerlifter with gear would not be able to run sprints or do such high volume (as found in crossfit) without taking away from their go-no go muscle fibers that they need for that one push.

beware that this is just some gimmick to get you to buy something that claims you can make tremendous strength and conditioning gains.

you will have to abandon the thought that you can run 5 miles a day and squat 650 lbs and bench 4+. it just ain't gonna happen unless you're a freak.

12/21/2011 7:52:31 AM

Quote :

"CrossFit, as it's written, is purely for GPP. Most reasonable people will admit that. Thats why the majority of us add in strength work and keep the conditioning under 15min...but then is that really CrossFit at that point? Who cares, it works better and it's more enjoyable (to me at least). "

This has been my point about Crossfit...

Successful "crossfitters" bastardize all successful training modalities (endurance, gymnastics, strongman, strength training, oly lifting, power lifting) and then call it something else.

With any fitness endeavor the program is as only good as the coach. With Crossfit's model of certification and affiliation, there is practically zero quality control. The result is a some great coaches, who generally learned their training foundations within a specific training/sports context; and then there's a large amount of coaches who can't coach their way out of a wet paper bag.

The westside/conjugate/russian/ME+DE/blackbox method, or whatever you want to call it, works well if you can utilize the different aspects of speed, maximal, and repetition training modals.



[Edited on December 21, 2011 at 8:22 AM. Reason : ;]

12/21/2011 8:20:41 AM

So packman, this is a CF seminar? I thought it was a Westside seminar (?).

...

...

...


Not so sure about this now...

12/21/2011 10:01:39 AM

Quote :

"i don't know the guy, chris i guess??? that is doing the seminar. from what i know about crossfit and my experience with Westside (through multiple cycles), it doesn't seem like the two can coexist. in fact, i know they cannot coexist. the most roided up powerlifter with gear would not be able to run sprints or do such high volume (as found in crossfit) without taking away from their go-no go muscle fibers that they need for that one push. beware that this is just some gimmick to get you to buy something that claims you can make tremendous strength and conditioning gains. you will have to abandon the thought that you can run 5 miles a day and squat 650 lbs and bench 4+. it just ain't gonna happen unless you're a freak."

No doubt someone won't be a stud powerlifter by adding some westside techniques/thinking into their crossfit training but it could still be helpful for someone who likes to crossfit but would like to add some emphasis to their strength training as well. I don't ever plan on competing in powerlifting (or anything besides rec league softball really) and I don't have these delusions that crossfit would prepare me for something like that even with including westside style training. I just like to mix in some more strength work than the typical crossfit programming calls for.

12/21/2011 4:39:15 PM

^^This is a WESTSIDE seminar...being held at a CrossFit Facility.



The 2 actually coexist quite well if you can think outside of the box.

When setting up CF/Westside hybrid you really only do ME days from westisde (1 upper, 1 lower) each week

The typical DE Days are instead olympic lifting at lower % which actually ends up fitting in quite nicely.

Is it going to mirror Westside exactly? No...but it doesn't have to.





[Edited on December 21, 2011 at 5:04 PM. Reason : ]

12/21/2011 4:59:56 PM

Chris called Louie to get his thoughts on the seminar and he didn't want to push his luck with CF HQ. Because of this, there will no longer be a seminar (FUCK).

On the positive, for us CrossFit douchebags, there could end up being a CF Powerlifting cert here now (usually they're only in Columbus)

12/22/2011 4:52:41 PM

westside trains you to be good at one thing

crossfit trains you to be good at NOTHING

again...how can the two coexist? oly lifts are a good conditioning exercise, but you're stupid to think that doing a snatch with 95 lbs for 75 reps will somehow translate into big squat gains.

westside is about increasing your capacity AND increasing your speed to bust through mini-maxes. don't forget that bench press and upper body strength (neglected by crossfit because the people are twigs and are scared of the "useless" bench press) is 2/3 of the power lifts. i've never seen a powerlifter with weak lats or pecs. i've never met a crossfitter who has spoken of bench press in glowing terms. and if you want to add numbers to your bench, YOU HAVE TO DO BENCH TYPE EXERCIES

rack lockouts
close grip
j and m presses
incline work
dumbell press

crossfit facilities don't even have the capacity or desire to let people train like that. and if going to a weekend seminar and paying $1K makes you a certified powerlifter crossfit trainer, you're full of shit. being in "good" shape is one thing. but being in "westside" shape is completely different.

without drugs, diet, adherance to the plan, and MINIMAL taxing cardio, you will NOT see growth with Westside. besides, did you know that the big three lifts are not even done in Westside until competition? no. are you going to sacrifice your dear rowing machine for dimmel deadlifts, hip pull throughs, glute bridges, 45 minutes of triceps, HEAVEN FORBID biceps work 2 times a week, face pulls, and other auxillary exercies that have nothing to do with the power lifts or crossfit? doubtful.

the two can't work together. but keep dreaming.

12/23/2011 9:16:25 AM

I FUCKING LOVE YOU.

westside trains you to be great at one thing

crossfit trains you to be good at everything


again...how can the two coexist? oly lifts are a good conditioning exercise, but you're stupid to think that doing a snatch with 95 lbs for 75 reps will somehow translate into big squat gains.

doing lighter snatches/cleans is comparable to speed squat/deadlift IMO

westside is about increasing your capacity AND increasing your speed to bust through mini-maxes.

you don't think the olympic lifts train for speed? There's no increased capacity by doing these lifts!?

don't forget that bench press and upper body strength (neglected by crossfit because the people are twigs and are scared of the "useless" bench press) is 2/3 of the power lifts. i've never seen a powerlifter with weak lats or pecs. i've never met a crossfitter who has spoken of bench press in glowing terms. and if you want to add numbers to your bench, YOU HAVE TO DO BENCH TYPE EXERCIES

rack lockouts
close grip
j and m presses
incline work
dumbell press

who said anything about wanting to increase their bench? Why can't a CrossFitter do any of the lifts you suggested if they wanted to? We have racks, benches, and dumbbells..

crossfit facilities don't even have the capacity or desire to let people train like that. and if going to a weekend seminar and paying $1K makes you a certified powerlifter crossfit trainer, you're full of shit. being in "good" shape is one thing. but being in "westside" shape is completely different.

you're making a blanket statement about what you THINK CrossFit gyms are like or how they train. Who said a weekend seminar would make anyone a "certified powerlifter trainer"...I certainly never did. Being in "good" shape is relative..."westside" shape...are you fucking kidding me? No shit, there's a difference

without drugs, diet, adherance to the plan, and MINIMAL taxing cardio, you will NOT see growth with Westside. besides, did you know that the big three lifts are not even done in Westside until competition? no. are you going to sacrifice your dear rowing machine for dimmel deadlifts, hip pull throughs, glute bridges, 45 minutes of triceps, HEAVEN FORBID biceps work 2 times a week, face pulls, and other auxillary exercies that have nothing to do with the power lifts or crossfit? doubtful.

the two can't work together. but keep dreaming.

I completely beg to differ, but you can't get your fucking head out of your ass to see it any other way. They don't do the big three lifts except in meets!? Holy shit, that's fucking news to me. Seriously? The tricep thing and biceps thing I'll give you....weighed chinups, ring dips, pressing...just doesn't do it...sigh. I still think the two can work together. Don't confuse this as me saying that "doing westside + CrossFit will make you an awesome power lifter". I do still maintain that doing a hybrid of the two will increase one's strength. It falls to you though...prove me wrong.












[Edited on December 23, 2011 at 11:17 AM. Reason : ]

12/23/2011 11:03:51 AM

I think this argument can be settled by agreeing on semantics.

Crossfit is really just a term for "we train more elite than you; so either drink the kool aid, or be unfit".

You can't put your finger on crossfit because it isn't one thing. Each crossfit gym (box) has a dramatic variety of quality, focus, and atmosphere.

Some of it is great. Some of it is laughable. They don't do one specific thing, but take methods that have been around for decades, then throw it against a wall, whatever sticks is called crossfit.

12/23/2011 12:18:33 PM

yeah, I'm starting to think Crossfit is just a name for a ridiculously overpriced gym, not an actual method of training.

12/23/2011 12:50:55 PM

You think you can replace box squatting with light weight oly lifts done for too many reps and hence with poor form?

doubtful?

Louie Simmons seems to agree with me.

http://westside-barbell.com/westside-articles/PDF.Files/04PDF/Box%20Squatting.pdf

And as for squatting before a meet, don't forget to read this sentence "Let me say first that, no, they won't hurt your spine, you don't use1000 lbs. on a 25 inch tall box, you don't rock on the box, you don't touch and go, and there is no need to do regular power squats before a meet. No knee wraps are worn nor are the straps of the suit pulled up."

[Edited on December 23, 2011 at 6:58 PM. Reason : .]

12/23/2011 6:57:34 PM

You're making an awful lot of assumptions to "be right l

Who said there was no box squatting?
Who said a ridiculous amount of oly lifts to where form breaks down?

I also was acknowledging that its not common practice to do reg. squats before a meet.

These "discussions" always go the same way....stay on your side of the line and I'll stay on mine.

12/23/2011 8:33:25 PM

DE leg day: do you think you'll have the juice left to do 200 "power snatches?" doubtful

http://www.westside-barbell.com/westside-articles/PDF.Files/05PDF/BOX%20SQUATTING%20BENEFITS.pdf

Quote :

"The Olympic lifting rule of 60% is that one workout should be 60% volume of the most recent workout for the same muscle groups. In powerlifting the rule is 30% give or take 5%. Why? Powerlifting commonly jumps 50 or 90 pounds per set. Olympic lifters jump 11 or 22 pounds per set. This rule of 30 is true for benching or squatting workouts."

still think they can coexist? power lifting has way too much volume for crossfit "cardio" to be thrown in. i really don't think you can do all the running and rowing and still have the legs or lats under you to throw down on serious heavy weight as evidenced by the below article.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/articles/using-the-conjugate-system/

with that being said, if you are looking for a combination, i would look at what football athletic trainers have published. have you seen what linebackers and defensive linemen look like these day? they are strong and conditioned in the classical sense. i know crossfit does not harp on the pecs because they feel they are not necessary for overall fitness despite tons of evidence to the contrary and the millions of powerlifters, bodybuilders, and athletes with huge chests and shoulers and triceps to show that pushing movements from the upper body consitutes nearly 1/3 of general fitness. get out of the box, embrace the chest/lat/tricep/biceps concept and see the gains. knock yourself out with crossfit and westside, see that you can be adequate at one, but never great at either unless you lose the other. please do come back and tell us how it goes.

[Edited on December 28, 2011 at 8:35 AM. Reason : final paragraph. ]

12/28/2011 8:31:02 AM

Check this out:

http://outlawcoach.wordpress.com/about/

12/28/2011 9:04:01 AM

so what world records have they developed? geared? raw?

1000 lb deadlifts and squats? 600 lb bench press?

12/28/2011 9:30:07 AM

You're still missing my point.

I agree with you. If that's what we were after, a pure Westside program would be the best bet.

Getting stronger, while maintaining our conditioning/gained skills (gymnastics,oly lifts, etc) would not work on pure Westside.

Not everyone wants to set world records.

12/28/2011 9:51:07 AM

So you train to fail?

I think it's better as a statement. You train to fail.

12/28/2011 12:16:31 PM