Background info:

Over a year ago, a backplate on a pointer broke. The pointer points copper tubing for drawing. On the original backplate, there was a ring that could be attached to it to allow cleaning and removal of tooling. The replacement backplate was from another machine and was a quick fix. The replacement backplate does not allow for greasing or for a metal ring to be attached to it. A new backplate was supposed to be fabricated.

In April of this year, the backplate was finally ready. About a month later when the pointer on the machine finally broke, the new backplate was put on, but we did not have the ring! So the wrong backplate was put back on and a ring was supposed to be commissioned to be made.

Jump to 5 weeks later:

We have no ring. No quote for a ring. Nobody knows about the status of the ring, except for the maintenance manager who took it upon himself to get a machine shop to fabricate the ring.

On Thursday in a meeting, I made mention to the CEO of the plant that we are not able to clean the pointer or change the tooling because we were missing the ring. That made the CEO not too happy (not at me, but at the maintenance manager), and he told me that I need to be more forceful and that just because I'm new doesn't mean my opinion caries any less weight than anyone else.

On Friday, the maintenance manager was not happy with me and he made some snide childish comments that I shrugged off and ignored. I asked him about the status of the part, and he said that he hasn't been able to get in contact with the machine shop for 2 days. I asked him what about the previous 4.5 weeks. He changed the subject to how he didn't even know that he was supposed to get the part. He then stated that he's been trying to get the backplate put on for over a year, a blatent lie to my face (although I did not call him out on it to try not to irritate him further and make the situation worse). I asked him whether he got the drawings from the company who made the pointer. He said he didn't think to ask them.

At that point a guy turns to me and says that he will call the company right now and ask for the drawings. I said ok, that's great. That made the manager not too happy.

As he's calling him, he then shouts out "I'm sending an e-mail to them right now!" And the other guy goes "well I'm calling them, they have holiday today. If I call them we can have the drawings by monday." At that point the manager turned to another guy who hasn't been involved in any of it and started saying how we have stopped working as a team and that it's a waste to have 2 people doing the same thing. Then he started talking about me to the guy while I'm standing there, which makes me none to happy and it's something he has done to his subordinates (which I am not a subordinate of his).

He said "we've done a lot for "them" (me) and this is what they do? I'll tell you, this isn't how to get along. It ruins this "inner circle." I've tried working with them." At that point, I address him and say "You've tried working with me? If you've tried working with me, then how come you don't keep me updated? How come purchasing knows nothing about this? How come nobody knows the status? If you're trying to work with me then why don't you tell me anything or keep me updated on anything? You never work with me." He finally addresses me and says "Don't come here and bark orders at me. You won't get far." I just roll my eyes and go back to the guy who's on the phone to the company.

They told us to check if we had the drawings, I said ok, and left.

I went back to my office, double checked to make sure we don't have any hidden drawings, sent an e-mail to the company asking for the drawings copying my boss, the maintenance manager and two of his subordinates who were involved.

I went and talked to the production manager, and he told me they've been begging to have to new backplate put on. This confirmed my belief that the maintenance manager was lying to me, since I already knew that they could fix the pointer when they aren't using it or during the umpteen million times the machine has been down for days at a time...

My question to you if you're still reading this:

I will get the drawings, the company already said they had no problem providing us with the drawings. I have no interest in doing the guy's job, and I don't wish to "show him up" anymore than he already has been. I am thinking I will just send him the drawings and let him handle it while asking for updates every so often on the part. What would you do?

Do you see anything I have done wrong or that you would have handled differently? When I told the CEO, I never mentioned him by name. I just said we didn't have it. I had no idea at the point how they were going about getting the replacement ring (whether purchasing/maintenance was "handling" it). My concern is that we are literally destroying the equipment and for 5 weeks there has been no update of anytime.

6/25/2011 8:40:10 PM

Sounds like this guy doesn't like getting called out for not doing his job.

What I would do if I were you is send him the pertinent information in an email, giving a rundown of what needs to be done and the timeline in which it needs to be done, CC his subordinates and also his direct supervisor. Seems like it's important that this guy's supervisor also be kept in the loop over what's going on.

6/25/2011 8:45:02 PM

I was thinking about BCCing my boss, possibly the production manager (the guy above him), but not the CEO (he is leaving at the end of the month, and I'm not going to bug him with this stupid bullshit) and CCing his subordinates.

This way if he doesn't do his job, the people above him will be kept "in the loop" without creating confrontation and stupid ass drama, and giving them a direct reference to this guy's incompetence.

6/25/2011 8:51:10 PM

I work in the same office area as someone with an extremely annoying laugh. She cackles all day long. The office area is as big as a football field, but it doesn't matter. It's THAT loud.

6/25/2011 9:30:35 PM

^^ Yeah I really think that's your best course of action in this situation. And if he emails you throwing a hissy fit, reply to him in a professional manner and make sure to CC his direct supervisors in that email as well so they can see the hissy fit

6/25/2011 9:38:38 PM

I really like BCCs, because it allows people to make asses of themselves.

6/25/2011 9:40:15 PM

Fire that motherfucker and get somebody in there that will do their damn job.

6/25/2011 10:04:46 PM

If only it were that easy. I've seen plenty of people in my day that should have been straight up fired but companies will keep them on for stupid ass reasons like he's the cousin of the CEO or they don't want to have to pay unemployment benefits to the douchebag, etc etc.

6/25/2011 10:10:09 PM

Unless you're leaving something out, sounds like you handled things about as well as you could have.

6/25/2011 11:44:23 PM

Quote :

"Jump to 5 weeks later: We have no ring. No quote for a ring. Nobody knows about the status of the ring, except for the maintenance manager who took it upon himself to get a machine shop to fabricate the ring."

There's your first problem. You know there's a problem and for 5 weeks you haven't heard anything about it, but you let it go. Check it. Double check it. Hound the guy responsible until he gets it done. Every day. Every other day. Get updates. TPS reports. Don't let up until you know you can trust these people to do what they say they will do.

Quote :

"On Thursday in a meeting, I made mention to the CEO of the plant that we are not able to clean the pointer or change the tooling because we were missing the ring. That made the CEO not too happy (not at me, but at the maintenance manager), and he told me that I need to be more forceful and that just because I'm new doesn't mean my opinion caries any less weight than anyone else."

1) CEO agrees with me. You're in charge of that area. Your responsibility to follow up on things to make sure they get done.

2) You could have tried to take responsibility for the issue. I don't know how you worded it, but for you to say that something was wrong and the CEO to get mad at someone else then sounds like it was aimed at the maintenance manager.

3) Blame this time was put on the maintenance manager because he is experienced and knew better than to let it slide, but next time it WILL be on you.

The rest of the drama with the manager (because it really just boils down to that) comes with learning to deal with different types of people. The damage was already done because a report was made to the CEO that ended up getting a guy in trouble, so that guy's already going to be pissed off at you. Avoid doing that in the future.

Since you're in the superior position (I assume), take the blame for your area's failure. Hell at this point the CEO will go easy on you since you're the new guy. Don't let the blame get shoveled off onto others who can very easily make your work a pain in the ass, especially when its your duty to make sure the work gets done. Sure, its their job to actually do it, but you knew the ring needed to be fixed.

Typically, us college kid engineers were taught that you must not come off as an uppity college kid and you must give the experienced managers respect. To fix the situation, I'd suggest going one on one with the manager, coming to an agreement, and learning to work with him.

To become a good pack leader and get people to do what you want/need, you need them to respect you. Build a trust between the two of you and you should start getting better results. I'd suggest picking up some books to help you in this area, 360 degree leader, 7 habits of highly effective people, and some other book that's like 21 something or others of leaders. Its usually common sense stuff, but it helps when you see it in print right in front of your eyes.

6/26/2011 12:25:44 AM

Quote :

"There's your first problem. You know there's a problem and for 5 weeks you haven't heard anything about it, but you let it go. Check it. Double check it. Hound the guy responsible until he gets it done. Every day. Every other day. Get updates. TPS reports. Don't let up until you know you can trust these people to do what they say they will do."

How do I hound him without causing more childish immature drama?

Quote :

"Since you're in the superior position (I assume), take the blame for your area's failure."

I am not in the superior position. I am "below" him, but outside of his department. I do not work for him, and he does not work for me. My area of responsibility is focused more on improvement projects, improving equipment and yes, finding problems with equipment and notifying maintenance of the project.

The only thing I knew before the meeting with the CEO was that maintenance knew about the problem and they were going to have the item made through a machine shop called Reynolda Machine Shop and it has been well over a month with no update.

Each week we have LPMS meetings and this item (the pointer) has come up for discussion. While the maintenance manager is not present for these meetings, the guy directly below him (the maintenance scheduler) is present. He has been asking about the item from the maintenance manager every week.

Now I am not going to have the part made, as I am not going to do his department's job. He has a guy who works for him who's job is to maintain drawings and place order's to purchasing for new parts. I am not going to do that for him. While he can get angry at me for what equates to him, or his department, not doing their job, I'm not going to "show him up" and be an asshole in that respect.

6/26/2011 6:13:29 PM

Quote :

"How do I hound him without causing more childish immature drama?"

well for starters, you don't let things fester for 5 weeks

6/26/2011 6:24:51 PM

They've been "festering" for over a year. It took them a year to finally get the backplate ready.

But at the very least for this guy is he can use the excuse that he doesn't have the resources to put the backplate on (because our maintenance department is lacking in personale relative to what is needed). But there is no excuse for not getting a ring made.

6/26/2011 7:28:07 PM

Quote :

"How do I hound him without causing more childish immature drama?"

Again, its about approaching the issues with these guys with respect. Connect with him, say you understand he has a lot of work to do, suck his dick for all anyone cares, but its one of those things you'll need to learn how to do when stuff like this comes up.

Quote :

"I am not in the superior position. I am "below" him, but outside of his department."

Gotcha, I missed that part about maintenance being separate. Regardless, if you think of this project as a task with a chain of command to it, it was ultimately up to you to make sure the repair got it done to your process. The maintenance department could be considered an outside source, so this is akin to blaming the printer on not being able to turn a paper in or something. That's how the CEO saw it at least, in how he lectured you about needing to be more stern about these things.

Quote :

"That made the CEO not too happy (not at me, but at the maintenance manager), and he told me that I need to be more forceful and that just because I'm new doesn't mean my opinion caries any less weight than anyone else."

I almost guarantee that the maintenance guy got the request and was all "psh, this guy" and went to do other stuff. This is just because you're a new college grad, its how shit goes with these people. Veteran staff sergeants who get put under the command of a fresh 2nd Lt, process line guys with 20 years of experience who get a 21 year old college kid as their area engineer, same thing. You just have to end up proving yourself and gaining respect by giving them theirs...while making sure they do their work. It's not easy

I do find that approaching people in person or on the phone helps to make the connection better between you two as opposed to email contact. A lot easier to make sure you are polite and respectful in person than with a to the point email. Find a common ground...when I was a sophomore working at DuPont and got a 50 year old technician assigned as my union worker, I was lucky enough that the guy was incredibly nice and we found a common ground in college basketball. His daughter went to UNC, and while he didn't understand the rivalry, we were able to converse about basketball in general and other stuff like this Tahitian Noni crap he was selling, and as a result he would be more willing to do my work on time.

My next term I got exposed to a lot more workers, and my main union assignee was this really ornery guy and it was very clear very quickly that he was of immense influence among the other union workers. He was like the damn ring leader of the whole place. Anyway, just by being nice, polite, and making good conversation with this 60ish year old dude allowed us to build mutual trust and respect, even though the guy pretty much hated engineers.

Yes, I had a few run-ins and disagreements, but by building a relationship I was more able to understand where they were coming from and vice versa and thus get work done more efficiently. For future ordeals I'd recommend getting to know the guys you will depend on. They don't have to be your best bud but some familiarity and good manners definitely goes a long way.

[Edited on June 26, 2011 at 11:01 PM. Reason : I will also say that I hope I never have to work with unions again ]

6/26/2011 11:01:28 PM

Why does it take so long to get parts? What was the lead on the back plate? How detailed of a machine job is this ring?

6/26/2011 11:25:38 PM

Quote :

"I almost guarantee that the maintenance guy got the request and was all "psh, this guy" and went to do other stuff. "

Here's a bit more of the backstory on the pointer.

About 1 year ago the backplate broke. They scrambled and took a spare backplate from another pointer and put it on as an interim fix as a new backplate was being made.

In March of this year the backplate was ready after many delays. This was about the time I was getting involved with the machine. The backplate was ready and shortly thereafter a scheduled date was set to bring the machine down to fix it (amongst other things).

Well, the pointer broke. The jaws broke and a large block broke. Completely sheared apart. It was pretty incredible to see.

Well, they put the new backplate on, re-welded the broken parts. At this point they realized that they could not locate the old ring. The maintenance department, who has a person responsible for maintaining drawings and order parts for the maintenance department to do repair work, was responsible for getting this part, and the manager and his people knew that a new ring was needed.

So meanwhile I'm keeping relatively hands off and trying to let them do their job. They are responsible for fixing the machine and doing planned maintenance on them. We go over it in our LPMS meetings and nothing is being done. The only information that was given was a machine shop was having the part made.

When it comes to shit like this, I cannot do this for them. Yes, I can hound maintenance, but I have my own responsibilities. It is impossible for me to do my job in addition to their job.

My job is not to get drawings and have parts made. They pay a guy who's sole job is to do just that. If he doesn't want to utilize him or if he wants to do it all himself, then so be it. He is ultimately responsible and you're absolutely right in saying I should hold him to his responsibility.

Quote :

"For future ordeals I'd recommend getting to know the guys you will depend on."

I have tried getting to know the guy. We've found common ground in music, my parents live in the same area he used to live (Greenville, SC area). But this guy is two faced. He really is. Our production manager, who is an awesomely nice guy and very bright, this guy talks shit about behind his back. He sits here and complains about how he won't let him do maintenance on a machine, but it simply isn't true. He has no fucking spine. When the production manager inquires as to why he wants to take the machine down, the guy backs down and says he won't take the machine down. Hell, the production manager has had to push the maintenance manager to schedule downtime on machines.

He also will talk crap about my boss as well.

He doesn't manage his people at all. He lets his people lie to him and he lets them fuck up on a continual basis. And his people HATE him. They all do. He lies to everyone, he never keeps his word, and he's more concerned about protecting his ass than getting the job done, which continually backfires on him. When the maintenance planner tells him they don't have a part to him, he shoots them down and puts them down. Then when he (the planner) tells the people above him, the manager flips out. But then when the planner fixes the problem, the manager puts on his shit eating grin and takes credit.

The guy is a piece of shit that nobody who has to deal with him on a daily basis likes. He is a "nice" person to talk to, but he doesn't do his fucking job and he doesn't keep his word.

He was supposed to have a material detection flap moved about 2 weeks ago. The production manager brought this to my attention and I pushed for it through the maintenance manager and his planner. We had a 30 minute meeting where he designated his people to certain tasks and he was supposed to put some people on that task. It would take 2 hours tops to do and it has been a problem for 2 years, one that the production manager has begged maintenance to fix. But, the next day, it didn't get fucking done! I ask why and they said they had "something" come up. So I push for it again, and now it is on schedule for July 4th, but now I have lost faith in it happening because I don't trust the piece of shit to have it done.

6/27/2011 7:47:18 PM

did you get your flap, or did you cause one?

7/5/2011 9:04:44 PM

the words per post ratio in this thread is ridiculous

7/5/2011 9:59:20 PM