I still need to find my copy of the lease and look it over, but I want to go ahead and find out from some of TWW's legal finest to see if I'm grasping at straws.

[WORDS]

Backstory: I moved into this apartment last August. When fall came around, I realized my heat (gas heat) wasn't turning on so I looked in the closet where the furnace was. There was a tag hanging on it that said, "DANGEROUS CONDITIONS" and followed with "Flames coming out of burner. Use at own risk." So, of course I was all and called the landlord (more like company) to tell them about it. They came out that week and fixed it and said they "forgot" to fix the problem before I moved in.

(Sidebar: I always thought my heater acted funny when I had it on during the fall/winter but just chalked it up to being different than what I was used to... This is important for later.)

Last night: This past week I would come home to a slight smell of natural gas that would disappear after a few minutes. Last night I got a little worried about it and decided to call the gas company to report a leak. A guy immediately came out and looked at both my stove and furnace.

Turns out, there was a gas leak in one of the valves. But, it gets better. Apparently the leak wasn't enough to be combustible by me lighting a candle or anything but due to the set-up of the furnace itself, the gas was building up in my apartment over time and that's why I have been able to smell it recently. When I would come home and open the door, enough would escape to where I wouldn't smell it until the next day.

I apologize for the large picture, but bear with me.



The gas leak was coming from the gas control valve. See the return duct going from the return register to the furnace? My furnace doesn't have one. According to Mr. Gas Man, that was actually more dangerous than the gas leak going on. I know I won't do a very good job of explaining it, but from what I can gather every type of air that is going through that thing needs to remain separate. My furnace, however, was mixing all these things and pumping it back out into my apartment. I guess within the closet there could have been a dangerous situation. He flat out told me it's "not up to code" AT ALL, and thankfully he shut the gas off. He put another dangerous tag on it, and I signed it saying I knew (now) not to turn it on. (Which I obviously wouldn't turn it on in this heat anyway, but whatever.)



So my question is... Is there any way I can break my lease for them essentially saying something was fixed and perfectly fine to use, when a) it probably wasn't even fixed and b) it was still a dangerous condition and wasn't up to code? They told me afterwards that it was perfectly safe to use, and now I know it wasn't.


Again, I'm going to look through my lease but I didn't know if any of the TWW lawyers could give me advice (or those who work with real estate law or something). This isn't the first problem I've had with this apartment telling me something was "fixed" when it in fact was not. (Example: my shower windowsill that is not rotting away and probably has mold all in it.)

Thanks!


PS - There are quite a few reasons why I want to break my lease, and now I realize many have to do with this issue. I forgot to mention that the exhaust stack goes into the attic... and there's a giant, gaping hole. So not only has this created issues with extra heat during the summer and extra cold during the winter coming into my apartment, but it also might explain a few suspect bugs I have seen. And, ya know, I just hate living in a place where nothing is actually fixed and they just patch it up (like the moldy windowsill).

PSS - My lease ends July 31st

[Edited on June 5, 2011 at 2:07 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2011 2:02:05 PM

Its going to take you a month to get a court date. At this point you might as well just wait out the lease. However, as soon as you prepare to move out, call the city and report a code violation.

If the heater really is in violation of code, they will prevent the property from being rented again until it's actually fixed and inspected. I've done this to two property owners over the years as a final "fuck you" for being slumlords. One house went through 18 months of renovations to get back up to code again. The other one turned out to not be a code violation, just a really shitty installation.

6/5/2011 2:15:35 PM

Yeah, you can break you lease and pay the rest (most likely you would have to do this since it ends in July).

[Edited on June 5, 2011 at 2:17 PM. Reason : w]

6/5/2011 2:16:35 PM

I have no idea, but my guess is that as huge of a pain in the ass it would be to try to get out of the lease when it'll be over on July 31st anyway, it's not worth it.

6/5/2011 2:17:26 PM

I would guess if you reported it to your landlord and they refused to fix it, then you could not break the lease. I think you have two issues going against you here.

1. Even if they did refuse to fix it immediately, it is summer and you have no need for heat. The gas is shut off and you are in no way unsafe (now).

2. I don't know a lot about heating units, but perhaps when the apartment complex initially "fixed" the problem, they actually did fix that particular issue. It almost seems like the second issue is unrelated to the one they initially fixed. I could be way off-base here, but that's just the way it sounds.

If it were me, I would just bite the bullet on the last 55 days. But that is just me.

6/5/2011 2:17:37 PM

Is the hassle worth it? Probably not. If you're going to do it anyways, report the problem in writing. Give them time to fix it (5 business days). If you've already notified more than once in writing, skip this step. If it's not fixed in a timely manner, send a termination of lease letter, and move out. You won't win in any court of law if you are still living in the apartment. If they demand payment of rent on July 1, they may take you to small claims court. Then it's just a matter of "is it worth it to me to fight this and maybe win, and pay for legal fees or should I just pay the month's rent?"

And you can always report them now. If you're ready to move out, and they have notice of the problem, and they haven't fixed it, there's no reason to wait to report a code violation. I would guarantee they have sufficient written notice of the problem first.

*This post is not to be construed as legal advice given by an attorney.

6/5/2011 2:19:13 PM

Do you have another place that you really want but you are afraid that you will not get it if you stay through the lease and that is why you want to break it?

6/5/2011 2:22:45 PM

Well, regardless, I'm moving the F out of there by the end of June. This was the straw that broke the camel's back I guess you could say.

I really just want them to be like "yeah, we screwed up" and let me leave without requiring that last month's rent.


The gas man mentioned that they will be sending a letter to the company telling them it's not up to code, and gave me a list of "preferred contractors" if that tells you how bad it is.


^ Even though I wasn't using the gas heat at the moment, the way the whole furnace is set up was actually creating more heat. I could even fell it if I stood with my hand in front of the vent. And the fact that the closet area is open to the attic and the parts of the furnace aren't closed in (aka doesn't have the proper duct work) is also creating more heat.


Last time it described the dangerous condition as flames coming out of the burners. When I talked to the gas man last night, he said it could have been dangerous due to the way it was set up (he wasn't the one who put the tag so he couldn't be 100% sure). The filter was just kinda laying next to the whole furnace instead of being attached to the return duct and such like in the picture, which is what makes me think why it was considered dangerous if there were flames coming out. :\



I really just want them to shorten the lease by 1 month or work out a deal where I don't have to pay July's rent, and I can move out of there by the last week of June.


^ No, I don't. I was kinda looking for places earlier online this year to prepare for my move in late July, but I never even viewed an apartment or spoke to any other landlords.

[Edited on June 5, 2011 at 2:26 PM. Reason : Oh, and I plan to notify them tomorrow (no one is there today)..]

[Edited on June 5, 2011 at 2:27 PM. Reason : clarification]

6/5/2011 2:23:53 PM

It won't hurt anything to just ask the landlord to let you out early, but make sure you get the answer in writing. I've asked to be let out early simply because the neighbors smoked so much my entire apartment smelled like cigarettes, and they let me out a month early and still returned my entire deposit. Some people are nice like that.

And you can always threaten a lawsuit if he says no and see what happens. You are leaving anyways, so what's the worse that could happen?

6/5/2011 2:36:17 PM

^ That's true. I feel like it could go either way... the lady who I normally speak with has been nice - the real issue lies in the maintenance men don't a very shitty job, or in some cases flat out lying. (One of them said they fixed and painted two places in my apartment that possibly have mold and wrote "no further repairs needed", oh and he went in my bedroom... and NOTHING was fixed. Literally. NOTHING. The lady came and looked at it herself and immediately hired a contractor to fix it because she couldn't deny nothing was changed.)

6/5/2011 2:39:35 PM

its hard to tell from hearing things second hand, but it sounds like the condition the man might have been describing was blow back, which could be caused by inadequate venting

6/5/2011 3:52:26 PM

Before I post, let me just say that my advice is 100% clouded by the fact that I really want to make it onto The People's Court.

I'd write them the letter telling them they have 5 business days to correct the problem (or at least make a good faith effort to do so) or you're moving out ASAP as the place is unsafe.

If you have to move out, pay the prorated amount of rent from June 1 to when you move out. If they due decide to sue you in civil court, get them to agree to drop their civil case and have your case settled in TPC.

6/5/2011 3:54:29 PM

As someone going through a similar situation currently, try negotiating with the management company. They're moving us into a different complex owned by the same management company just to get us to STFU about all the code violations in our unit. So we're getting a much nicer apartment and paying about $250 less/month than everyone else living there

6/5/2011 5:22:20 PM

^enjoy it while it last......

6/6/2011 8:58:58 PM

It has now turned into an all out battle.

They tried threatening me with "attorney" and I bounced back with "fire marshal" and "building inspector."


Now the repairman who didn't fix it in the first place is trying to force his way into my apartment to make repairs. I informed him a licensed contractor has to do it, he stated it had to be done today and they couldn't wait for a contractor. Then by the end of the conversation he smiled smugly at me and said he IS a licensed contractor.


I put a note on my door saying they have to give me 2 days prior notice of them coming into my apartment without consent, and cut and pasted the part of my lease stating such.



A team of building inspectors will be out here tomorrow. The assistant fire marshal I spoke to was all about listening to me and received my pictures, etc. He did not seem happy.



These people are slumlords and are trying to bully me. They messed with the wrong person


Just to give a little backstory, I gave them plenty of notice and she didn't respond to me. She claimed she had no idea when I tried contacting her again.. and yet, they received the letter from the gas company.

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 11:22 AM. Reason : .]

6/27/2011 11:19:55 AM

which apartment complex?

6/27/2011 11:51:14 AM

she lives in Bama

6/27/2011 11:52:23 AM

They came and ripped the note off the door then came back with one scheduling repairs on Wednesday

I can't wait to see the building inspectors tomorrow.

6/27/2011 12:00:25 PM

GG

Go get 'em tiger

6/27/2011 12:03:49 PM

Yeah this is ridiculous.

I shouldn't have been nice at first and just gone to the inspectors immediately. GG to whoever said that earlier.


I do have a question though - the reason this whole battle started is because I had to notify her again after not hearing back for almost 2 weeks (even though they had received a letter informing them of the issue). When she finally did respond, I had asked if it was possible to get out of my lease early due to this issue. She came back saying I needed to turn in a 60 day notice to vacate. I realized I had forgotten to fill out the form (I told them through email but never signed it and turned it in through the office - so before you flame me, I am fully aware of such and realize it's their legal right to tell me that). Even so, I basically asked her if we could negotiate and I could do a 30 day notice to vacate since I've been living in dangerous conditions. That's when she decided to be extremely bitchy about it and claim that I was just trying to move out early because I found a new place to live. When in reality, I am moving out ASAP because of this issue!! I didn't even start my extreme "must find new place NOW" hunt until the gas company came and checked everything out. She then told me she would have their attorney look over all emails (which is stupid because a lot of this stuff happened over the phone) and I responded with a message basically saying that's fine, and I would be contacting the fire marshal and building inspector.



Now, my question is - which one rules out?? They didn't fix this issue in time (for one) and they also lied to me about its safety. This apartment was dangerous for 8 months - and I did the research on why that's dangerous. Not only can it cause an explosion apparently, but all of the products of combustion have been pushed into my apartment which I think can make people sick. I actually had allergy-like symptoms at the end of winter/beginning of spring which was right after I had been using my heater a lot (and I have never had allergies). Not sure if that's related, but anywho....


Even if I HAD remembered to turn in that form, this furnace issue would have still happened and they would still be in violation of the Uniform Residential Landlord and Tenant Act of Alabama (specifically section 2.104).

So, which one rules? The fact that I forgot to sign the form (I have an email saying I wasn't planning on renewing, and I know that's not clear cut language so that might hurt) OR the fact that they lied about the safety of my apartment?

And again, please don't flame me for the 60 day notice thing. I realize I dropped the ball on turning it in. I just believe that them lying is worse than that.

6/27/2011 12:16:46 PM

I don't know what I'm talking about, so here goes:

I'd imagine that a place that is illegal to live in supercedes any rules or tenant contract that the apartment complex has in place. That's like finding black mold everywhere in the apartment and them saying you need to live there another 60 days because you didn't file paperwork.

Look for state laws that break a lease due to safety. The 30/60 day things sound like normal "hey I want to leave please" situations, not building code violations.

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 12:22 PM. Reason : lkj]

6/27/2011 12:21:14 PM

Yeah, from what I can gather I might be able to get a "constructive eviction" depending on what the inspectors say.

Obviously, if I had no issues I would suck it up and pay through that 60 days. But I think them not maintaining the apartment and not having major things up to code, then lying about it, would overrule that 60 day notice to vacate. I'm just double checking. I also found that you can give a 30 day notice in Bama, but ultimately it's what your lease says - I know my lease says 60 days and I fully admit I just didn't fill out the form. I'm not sure how much the email would hold up though.


I seriously hope the safety of an apartment would rule over that notice to vacate any day. Especially because if I had turned it in, we would still be having this problem and I would still be asking to leave early.


Oh, and I made sure to inform the assistant fire marshal that the management company might tell them I'm just doing this to get out of my lease early because I found the new place to live - he knows the truth now and he made a note of it.

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 12:26 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2011 12:25:05 PM

I've lost track. Do you still have a gas leak or whatever?

You're probably not going to be able to break your current lease unless the apartment is currently unsafe. Past safety issues probably won't matter with respect to the current state of he lease.

6/27/2011 12:34:46 PM

and if they cut the gas line you aren't in any immediate threat, you'll just need it fixed by fall/winter

6/27/2011 12:40:35 PM

That's the thing.

The gas was shut off because yes, there was a gas leak. But the gas leak wasn't even the dangerous part - the furnace isn't up to code and is missing the return duct.

Back in early fall when I first went to turn my heater on, nothing happened. The furnace had been red tagged, so I immediately called them and they came out to fix it within the next week.

Following those repairs, they told me everything was all set and it was safe. Then I found out in JUNE that it was not safe during that entire time. So not only did they lie to me, but they failed to maintain a safe unit. I informed them of the issue, she ignored me for almost 2 weeks, I tried calling them again and they still didn't take it very seriously. They had apparently gotten the letter from the gas company and just never told me (I know they got it because the repairman slipped up and said so).

So not only did they take too long to even do anything, but I was living in this place under the impression everything was safe when it wasn't - and they KNEW about it.



And now they're outside my door and I have no idea why. Be right back I guess

6/27/2011 12:41:48 PM

but the gas is off, so the furnace isn't running, so you aren't in danger


doesn't make it okay, but you are safe for 60 days if you need to be

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 12:50 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2011 12:43:15 PM

The gas is off only because I called the company. Had I not paid attention to the slight smell of gas it would still be on.


I don't understand how that is considered ok when they were supposed to have it fixed LAST OCTOBER and it wasn't - and has been against building codes

6/27/2011 12:44:54 PM

Missing the return duct isn't a big deal and, depending on the layout of the apartment, is sometimes common practice. Is there a grill either in the wall or on the door of the closet where the furnace is? If so, the closet is in effect the return duct. The leaking valve is worrying however. I hope that valve has been replaced.

6/27/2011 1:01:47 PM

The gas company told me the missing return duct was the bigger deal than the gas leak, because there's a huge section between the vent in the wall to the furnace. The furnace closet is also open to the attic - when I spoke to the fire marshal earlier (he has seen pictures) he did not sound happy with it.

They haven't fixed the gas leak yet either. They're trying to force themselves in today because they know I'm calling building inspectors, but I do not feel comfortable AT ALL with that repairman fixing it because he obviously is incompetent. The repair man for the apartment also blatantly lied and at first said he wasn't a licensed contractor then by the end of the conversation said he is licensed. I guess he was able to obtain licensure in 5 minutes?

The gas man wouldn't have stressed the importance of a contractor coming to fix the return duct first if it wasn't a big deal. And after some research, not only can it pull some bad things into the furnace by not having a return duct, but the products of combustion can be forced back into the apartment.


This company obviously doesn't give a what about their residents when it comes to maintaining this property. One neighbor was forced out by a termite infestation (that they claimed to have taken care of, but in fact didn't) and another lady was forced out by mold. I would be willing to bet my furnace isn't the only one in this building up to code, either.

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 1:08 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2011 1:07:05 PM

Quote :

"The furnace closet is also open to the attic"

That's not normal.

If there is a vent in the wall you don't really need a return duct. Discounting the lack of ceiling, the closet is in effect acting as the duct. This isn't unusual. Air from your home is pulled through the vent into the closet and then into the unit where it's heated or cooled and redistributed via your ductwork to the output registers. However, if the closet is open to the attic above, you'll be pulling in air from the attic and you don't want that. Take pictures of that if you haven't already.

6/27/2011 2:35:35 PM

Oh I have pictures. Here ya go:

Area in question:


Looking up into the attic:


Area in question again (showing how the filter is sitting):


Well, the guy said that return duct not being there wasn't up to code... Is it possible different states have different codes? He was also not happy with how they had the filter just laying against it. And, of course, the attic... and he also said the pipe going up into the attic might not be up to code because it was really close to the wall.


Anywho, to give an update... I called the guy back who knocked on my door earlier - he is with the city. I explained I had spoken to the assistant fire marshal and he was COMPLETELY fine with waiting to come out until tomorrow. I guess now I know why she had an attitude when telling the man which apartment was mine - because he wasn't with the property management company


I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING

Sometime in the winter, my smoke detector blurted out, "WARNING - CARBON MONOXIDE"... Could this be related?! I didn't really know what to think of it at the time and now I'm seeing products of combustion and other shit can cause you to have allergic reactions. I seriously have never had "allergies" until I moved here.

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 2:48 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2011 2:42:18 PM

Yeah, that could do it. It does not matter that it's summer time, working heat is required for habitation.

6/27/2011 2:53:42 PM

you ignored a CO warning?

um

why?

6/27/2011 2:56:02 PM

I only heard it that once (I guess it could have done it again while I was at school or something) and at the time I wasn't aware of these furnace issues and what it could cause.


^2 Great... I saw the symptoms of CO exposure and that basically describes what I thought were allergies.

6/27/2011 2:59:10 PM

CO warnings! GTFO of there. That shit will kill you. CO warnings mean that you're not properly venting combustion byproducts. If you're getting CO warnings YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER.

The filter should have been secured to the return plenum. When I used to install these things we had a bracket they would fit it that would hold them in place. Where the flu the goes up into your attic shouldn't be open like that and you're ceiling in there is all fucked up. Looks like there was water damage at some point.

Take a vacuum to that closet and clean it up. It looks like there is a lot of dust and drywall debris in there.

6/27/2011 3:11:35 PM

...after the fire marshall and all others see the damage of course

6/27/2011 3:15:21 PM

I hope now it's apartment why the F I want out of here! And honestly, I'm not touching that thing til the inspectors can look at it... I want them to see what it looks like in the state it's currently in :\


I guess now I'll make a note to let them know my detecter said CO warning

6/27/2011 3:16:26 PM

The CO warnings are key. That's not a code issue (well it is....), it's a risk to your life issue.

6/27/2011 3:21:02 PM

I just called the assistant fire marshal and told him. He said I'll have a whole entourage here tomorrow.


I have a feeling they're going to rip this place apart.

6/27/2011 3:23:24 PM

Your issues aside, I think this whole thing is kinda funny. The property owners could have your furnace in good shape for less than $500 dollars if they wanted. It's looking like this might cost them a lot more than that. This is why I hate cheapskate landlords.

6/27/2011 3:26:40 PM

Exactly. I was willing to work with the lady and not call these inspectors and just make the deal of "please let me leave here and you can fix it properly, and I can still give you 30 days notice." Then they decided to be huge A-holes... that's when I started wondering whether I should take a stand or just go with it. They have messed with quite a few neighbors I have had (termite lady, mold lady, etc) and they obviously don't give a shit about the safety of their residents.


At this point, I don't care if they take me to court. I feel like with all the evidence I have at this point, it would most likely get thrown out or it would just go in my favor. And even if for some reason they forced me to pay, at least I know these people were taught a lesson. I don't think they would be freaking out this much if they didn't know their building had a TON of issues that they have ignored....


(PS? This company is pretty well known in the area for being slumlords, apparently... Wish I would have known that before renting here. I guess they're the equivalent to the Preiss Co.)

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2011 3:30:33 PM

Pay them anyways. Stay on the safe side. You can sue them in small claims court later for some of the money back. If you don't pay them you will have to prove why you didn't. It will also negatively impact your credit. So pay them anyways. But do get out of the lease.

6/27/2011 3:46:09 PM

I am not paying them if I am told tomorrow that they need to let me out of there.

6/27/2011 4:19:38 PM

in north carolina having a problem does not give you the right to refuse to pay rent, no idea what it is like there.

6/27/2011 4:23:54 PM

Excuse me, but where did I say I wasn't going to pay my rent just because I have a problem??

Oh, that's right. I never said that. Ever.

6/27/2011 5:12:37 PM

Quote :

"I am not paying them if I am told tomorrow that they need to let me out of there."

^?

thats what it sounded like to me. not going to pay them what?

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 6:21 PM. Reason : kjfk]

6/27/2011 6:20:53 PM

He was making it seem like I have no intentions of paying rent at all

I was saying I have no intentions of paying them anything if the inspector tells them x, y, or z and says I need to move. In other words, I have no intentions of paying them rent if I am able to legally break my lease due to them not maintaining a safe apartment.

6/27/2011 6:32:16 PM

It is against North Carolina law for a tenant to withhold rent for ANY reason.

You should pay it and then recover it either through a refund or through small claims court.

6/27/2011 6:42:47 PM

She doesn't live in NC

6/27/2011 6:46:15 PM

^ Thank you LunaK


I do not live in NC - and I have already looked into the local laws here. I still have 8 days before my next rent check is due, so tomorrow will ultimately determine what decisions will be made. I am not just going to withhold rent for the hell of it - I am only saying I'm not going to pay the rent if I am legally allowed to leave this place and break my lease.


This is the exact kind of detector I had, and this is what it said:

http://player.vzaar.com/player/vzaar_player.swf?ts=20110627230042&account_type_id=28&id=64678&guid=vz57ee3bcd0fbe4b1ab7651c4f701081ae&home_path=http%3A%2F%2Fvzaar.com&w=448&h=336&format=mp4&duration=4.39&deliveryMethod=progressive

[Edited on June 27, 2011 at 7:01 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2011 6:49:46 PM