Ok, so here is the story. I'll try not to make it long. StiIts my last semester at state (for those who say just forget it and graduate, no thanks), and I took a free elective AEE class. The class didnt seem like alot of work, had a great grade distribution, and actually was involved in what I want to do with my life, so I figured it would be a good choice to take.

From day one I felt out of place. Everyone was a CALS major, and I was a CHASS student. I am studying Spanish and Int'l Reltaions, with hopes to work with immigrant population outreach. I talked with the professor, and he said it was great if i stayin in the class. I actually just got offered a job in Extension services last week, working in their migrant workers outreach.

So the class is mainly based on attendance and participation. We had 5 assignments, all to which I got a 100% on. The last part of the grade is attendance. He only randomly checked attendance 20 times, and I was there 15 of them, so I got a 75%. (averaged together, a 87.5%)

I checked this morning, and I got a B in the class. I didnt think this was fair, so I emailed him. After an explination similar to the one I just gave, he said

Quote :

" Since the assignments are very subjective and a reflection of your own personal beliefs in leadership I find it personally difficult to give a quantitative value for those assignments. Therefore, like I mentioned from day one and often during the semester, this was a participation course. We can't learn from each other and our experiences if you're not here. Due to your taking enough effort to followup...and thinking back and considering your participation when you were in class I am willing to adjust your grade to an A-. "

I was happier with that, until I learned that one of the other students in the class got 100% for the assignments, a 70% for the attendance, but yet an A in the class. I had better grades, but I got a B originally, and now an A-, still lower than them. And the more I ask around, the more that I see similar things. These are all students in CALS who have had him before.

I am meeting with him tomorrow, as he said he was leaving the office today at 11:30. Any advice on what I should say? I really feel like I have been discriminated against because I am not a CALS student.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

5/12/2011 12:15:22 PM

be happy with the A-. missing 5+ classes is not good when the class is based on human interaction/participation.

5/12/2011 12:22:50 PM

Quote :

"be happy with the A-. missing 5+ classes is not good when the class is based on human interaction/participation. "

you failed to get an A on your own, but your professor gave you an A- instead of a B... The problem??? Sorry, but you got way more than you deserved, not much room to complain.

You can definetely talk with him, it will help, but don't expect much from it. Talk to him about what you learned in his class and why you didn't show up 5 times, but really comparring your grade to others is not going to get you anywhere. To each is his own situation.

5/12/2011 12:26:03 PM

Man, you think too much! I bet you get straight A's and shit!

No, I got a B once. Well, actually it was an A minus, but it should have been a B.

5/12/2011 12:27:22 PM

I talked to him. We could have 2 excused absences. Two of the classes I was sick, and have the proper documentation for them to be excused. So it was just 1 un excused absence.

What I dont understand is why everyone else in the class got an A, but yet he gave me a B. I had to email and explain and everything for him to change it.

5/12/2011 12:29:08 PM

How was your participation when you were physically present?

5/12/2011 12:29:42 PM

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, but i really do think the A- is fair.

5/12/2011 12:30:50 PM

By your own calculation, your grade should have been a B. I don't see what the problem is and if I were him and a student came by again to nag me about a grade that I already adjusted upwards (beyond what they actually earned), I would probably knock it back down.

5/12/2011 12:32:39 PM

This is such small potatoes that what you had for breakfast this morning will literally have more impact on your life than whether you get an A or an A- in an elective course in your final semester of college.

5/12/2011 12:33:14 PM

just tell him exactly what you said here.

5/12/2011 12:33:26 PM

Quote :

"Any advice on what I should say? "

Thank him for changing your grade. Tell him you really enjoyed the class. Tell him the best thing you learned. Tell him the best lecture he gave. Tell him the hardest thing for you to grasp. Tell him the worst lecture he gave. Give him advice on how to teach the class so that CHASS majors can learn the material better without taking anything away from the CALS majors. Don't say anything related to bumping your grade higher.

5/12/2011 12:34:04 PM

Quote :

"How was your participation when you were physically present?"

it was great. He said it several times in the email that I sent. This class on grade distribution has an 88% A distribution.

And I was happy with him changing it to an A-. Until I talked with 3 other students who had lower attendance %, the same assignment grades, and got an A. And several of them never talked, and when they did come to class, showed up late. They are just extension majors, and have had the teacher before.


I know this will be hard to grasp, but, by the owns teachers admit, he didnt teach hardly any this semester. We sat around and talked. He maybe had like 4 actual lectures the whole semester, all of which was there. And we had alot of guest speakers, again all of which I was there. All the other times we either watched movies or sat around and talked.

[Edited on May 12, 2011 at 12:36 PM. Reason : ]

5/12/2011 12:34:39 PM

Also realize that similar griping over such trivialities in your future endeavors will most certainly be frowned upon.

5/12/2011 12:34:48 PM

Quote :

"be happy with the A-. missing 5+ classes is not good when the class is based on human interaction/participation."

5/12/2011 12:36:52 PM

yea I get that Slavefamous. But i figure I have nothing to lose. He's not going to lower my grade back to a B, because I dont understand and am questioning his grading. It was me questing this grade to start with that moved me from a B to an A-. I realize its not a good habit to get into, but i havent paid all kinds of money, and he's not getting paid $77,500, to get lower grades just because im not in CALS and havent had him before.

5/12/2011 12:39:13 PM

grades are supposedly confidential. you shouldn't ever use other student grades as a basis your own.

5/12/2011 12:40:47 PM

i have a similar story (if you dont mind me hijacking for a sec)


one of my classes-the professor took attendance randomly 6 times...yes only 6 times.
i was there for 4 of them (which is funny b/c i really do not skip...it was sheer luck that i missed class 3 times and two were during these days)...
the way he tells whether we're there or not is via these clickers...turn on your clicker (which is associated with your student #) and you have a pop quiz. even if the answer is wrong he gives you credit for attendance.
one of the 4 times i was there my clicker batteries were dead....and the ruling on that-its not his problem....you don't get counted for the day.

the final grades came in-i made a 79.4.
yes if that one single day had been counted then i would have made a B.

and we don't get graded on plus or minus scale.

79 gets you 2 gpa points
80 gets you 3.



THAT sucks.

[Edited on May 12, 2011 at 12:47 PM. Reason : dfdfds]

5/12/2011 12:46:27 PM

Quote :

"Also realize that similar griping over such trivialities in your future endeavors will most certainly be frowned upon."

QFT

5/12/2011 12:48:06 PM

He is already helping you out, quit complaining. If you didnt want this to happen you should have showed up for all of the classes. This is how the real world works.

Other students grades that are based on attendance and participation are subjectively determined by the professor, there is nothing that can change this. And as SF said, keep up with this trivial whining and complaining when you get a real job and you will learn quickly that that shit doesnt fly.

be happy with your A-

5/12/2011 12:48:52 PM

THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE IS THE FIRST TO BE REPLACED.

5/12/2011 12:49:56 PM

Quote :

"Any advice on what I should say?"

Just be simple and to the point: Complain to him how it's unfair that he gave you a higher grade than you earned.

5/12/2011 12:52:18 PM

i'd be pumped about the a- given the circumstance.

5/12/2011 1:08:37 PM

Quote :

"I was happier with that, until I learned that one of the other students in the class got 100% for the assignments, a 70% for the attendance, but yet an A in the class."

Part of your education on life I guess. In the workplace that becomes:

I was happier with my salary, until I learned that one of my coworkers that is always coming to me for advice and has fewer years experience is earning 40% more than I am.

5/12/2011 1:11:37 PM

ok, so i failed to explain an important part of my argument.

So the syllabus has attendance/participation at 300 of the total 1300 points for the class, that being 23% of our final grade.


me
77% Class assignments 77/77 (100s on everything)
23% Attendance/Participation 17.25/23
Final Class grade, according to the syllabus should be 94.25



The example of the two grades average together was just supposed to be an example of how a B didnt make since any way you looked at it.

5/12/2011 1:12:57 PM

Quote :

"DIDN'T MAKE SINCE "

5/12/2011 1:14:34 PM

Cancel your meeting with the professor and accept the grade.

For your sake, I hope you look at this thread in the future and can laugh at how insignificant this issue really is.

5/12/2011 1:19:39 PM

Attendance/Participation

Participation is subjective, this allows him to give you any grade that he wants to. I cant believe you have made it all the way through college and have yet to run into a class like this. He can justify almost any grade that he gives you by pointing at the participation.

And you already are going to graduate, and you already have a job offer, is the .0003 gpa pts going to make a difference?

Quit being a petty trifling know it all and accept what you were given. He prob bumped you up to an A- just so you would quit bitching

[Edited on May 12, 2011 at 1:23 PM. Reason : .]

5/12/2011 1:20:59 PM

Please do go to your scheduled meeting and do come back here and post the result.

5/12/2011 1:24:13 PM

It's pretty trivial, but if it's in the syllabus like that, I'd probably be irked enough to meet with the teacher as well. I wouldn't even mention that I had compared myself to other students, I'd only point out the math and ask wtf.

5/12/2011 1:33:52 PM

Please guys I have an A- tonight

5/12/2011 1:35:51 PM

So you are a CHASS student, with a job offer in hand complaining about an A-?

OK

5/12/2011 1:47:07 PM

if i was your professor and bumped your grade up to an A- for your being persistent, then you came to meet with me, the second you mentioned you should have an A i would show your ungrateful ass the door.

5/12/2011 1:58:46 PM

Quote :

"Any advice on what I should say?"

Apologize for being petty, unappreciative, and wasting his time, then excuse yourself and leave.

5/12/2011 1:58:49 PM

as other people have already said

don't complain any more to this guy

you already got an improvement in your grade

thank him and move right along

Quote :

"Also realize that similar griping over such trivialities in your future endeavors will most certainly be frowned upon"

so true

5/12/2011 2:06:57 PM

I feel like we are getting trolled with this one, but maybe this guy is serious

5/12/2011 2:13:11 PM

If the professor provided a grading rubric on the syllabus, they are obligated to honor it.

All you should say to the professor is that you want your grade according to what the grading rubric says it should be. It's a reasonable expectation and it's the only situation where the university might side with you against a professor. The grades the other students got don't matter and isn't something you should bring up.

Assuming that you have a numerica grade from the professor concerning you attendance/participation grade, I would frame the whole thing as a grading mistake. I would provide the records of my grades for assignments and attendance, make sure they match the professor's records, then confirm that the grade assigned matches the rubric on the syllabus. If it doesn't, ask the professor to adjust the grade according to the standards that they outlined at the very beginning of the class.

If they won't do that, you do have recourse options, but that's not a road you want to go down if you don't have to.

A question: Will this grade affect your graduation status or honors status (e.g. dropping from magna cum laude to cum laude). I'm assuming that the impact to your GPA is on the order of a thousandth of a point. If the grade doesn't have an impact on graduation or honors, I would drop the matter if you can't convince your instructor to honor their own syllabus. I would eventually send a letter to their department head with your evidence, but it wouldn't be a critical matter, just an FYI.

[Edited on May 12, 2011 at 2:17 PM. Reason : typing FTL]

5/12/2011 2:16:42 PM

i had a class last year and the grade was 50% homework, 50% final paper (grad school course)

my homework grade was a 90.5%
my paper grade was just "B"

final grade for the course: B

never got an answer from the professor as to why it wouldn't be a B+
take your A- and be happy.

5/12/2011 2:22:40 PM

The attendance policy for that given class is irrelevant. If you miss a class five times, no matter the reason, you have no ground to stand on demanding an A.

If you really wanted an A, you would've been there.

5/12/2011 2:26:38 PM

^exactly my thinking...unjustified professor grading? you missed 5 classes in a participation-based class. someone needs to rearrange your brain to think normally.

5/12/2011 2:29:14 PM

Man, in my CHASS classes if you missed 5 days you were getting an F.

Take the A- and run.

5/12/2011 2:51:27 PM

Unless this is keeping you from becoming the valedictorian then:

Quote :

"This is such small potatoes that what you had for breakfast this morning will literally have more impact on your life than whether you get an A or an A- in an elective course in your final semester of college. "

5/12/2011 2:58:50 PM

just forget it and graduate

5/12/2011 3:19:19 PM

This is a life lesson. The professor may be slightly in the wrong here, but you are still acting like a huge cunt. You complained about getting graded down in a subjective participation class that you didn't fully participate in, and when the professor unjustly increased your grade you want to get mad that he didn't increase it enough? Take your free points and be grateful and move on.

5/12/2011 4:18:22 PM

obiviously rufus you didnt read all of my posts. nothing unjust about raising my grade when it shouldnt have been that low anyways

Quote :

"ok, so i failed to explain an important part of my argument. So the syllabus has attendance/participation at 300 of the total 1300 points for the class, that being 23% of our final grade. me 77% Class assignments 77/77 (100s on everything) 23% Attendance/Participation 17.25/23 Final Class grade, according to the syllabus should be 94.25"

5/12/2011 4:20:50 PM

Your participation is whatever the hell your professor wants it to be. That includes attendance and the quality of your comments in class. Complaining that he didn't raise your grade enough is just rude, and the thought that he didn't give you a higher grade in the first place because of your major is laughable. Even if he graded you harshly on your participation, going back to him and complaining about your grade after he agreed to bump it up is just amazingly ungrateful.


p.s. just felt like adding

this is what you get for taking a class for the sole purpose of getting an easy A

[Edited on May 12, 2011 at 4:37 PM. Reason : .]

5/12/2011 4:31:51 PM

I thought this was a freshman

5/12/2011 4:33:48 PM

My advice would be to contact your advisor and see if he'll provide with a big box of tampons and/or a training bra.

5/12/2011 4:39:10 PM

I've been out of college v1.0 for over 5 years now. Your grades in individual courses ultimately do not matter once you graduate, unless it was a core course and you need a decent grade for application to a professional school (i.e. med, dental, etc.).

And the only time I ever quibbled over a grade was in physics, when the visiting professor forgot to include my final in the calculation of our grades, and half the class had Ds and below before it was corrected.

5/12/2011 4:43:16 PM

Students do this to me all the time- they're lucky I agree to meet with them in good humor.

The fact of the matter is I can pull out any one of their assignments and point out multiple instances where they fucked up. Yeah you're right, the math doesn't make sense, but it's probably in your favor.

Don't make them take a second (closer) look at your work. When students really push it with me I put them under the microscope- especially if it's the beginning of the semester.

Every semester I have exactly one of you. If I had a bunch of them I might actually think I was doing something wrong, but no, there's always just one. Why is everyone else in the class so happy? Could it be you're just an ass?

This semester my favorite student decided to go over my head straight to the dean. The dean then called me and said this student was the most condescending and arrogant prick they'd ever spoken to. I randomly sample my students' work for plagiarism, but this made me so mad I ran this twerp's entire collected works through the system.

Guess what? She went from being unhappy with her 89 to failing the course. I guess she thought there was something wrong with me, a professor from bumfuck NC, essentially giving the UN's top scientists a B+ on some of their climate change findings.

Hilarious indeed! Beware Geography departments in Western NC...

5/12/2011 4:43:37 PM

^ lol. I like that post.

5/12/2011 4:54:28 PM