So my landlord has decided to sell our house is not renewing our lease.
With the house on the market, we were requested to allowing real estate agents to show the
house per allowed in the lease agreement.

Initially this seemed like no big deal. The agent called us up to set up some initial ground rules which we mutually over the phone agreed to...

1.) We could be present at the house.
2.) Do not let the Cat out when visiting.
3.) Provide a 24 HOUR advanced notice of an upcoming appointment. (such that we have time to tidy and possibly make plans for one of us to be there).

To this date I would estimate that 80% of the real estate agency calls have not provided a 24 hour notice. Roughly half do not even provide a 12 hour notice. This past Saturday for example I was called at 8 AM to show the house at 10:30 AM. Beyond my own desire to sleep in, my roommate works as a hotel manager on 2nd shift and sleeps until about noon. On another occasion I had a call at 2 pm on my girlfriends bday, for a 6:00 pm appointment, which would have been in the middle of having company over for a celebration grill out. We thus have been declining many of these last minute appointments.

The agency calls have also on many occasions gotten out of hand. On some days I receive 4 calls a day from agents trying to show the house. So basically my 2nd job is playing housing appointment coordinator for this woman's house.

So today I get a call from Century 21, who the lady pays to manage the house, from the leasing bitch that we were violating our lease by not cooperating with the sales agent. I argued with this woman that we were being saturated with calls and that we were often given very little notice and being called at unreasonable times. As an example I told of the situation on Saturday where we were called at 8 am for a 11 am showing. She blew this off and stated the lease agreement permits "showing of the house during reasonable hours upon advanced notice.” She than threatened that unless we start cooperating the land lord can kick us out for violating our lease agreement. This would forfeit our deposit, ding our credit report, and some other B.S. that I really am not sure would be true.

I find it very unlikely the landlord would evict us given there is <50 days left in our lease. My questions though are as follows.

1.) Could we really get evicted for this and would it really hit our credit report?

2.) Given the vague statement on the lease, could the definition of "reasonable time and advanced notice" be argue in court.

3.) Do we have any rights as tenants in this regard of showings of the house. Although we do have only 50 days, this is becoming a burden to field 10+ agent visits per week and I do not want to field agent calls at 8 am on the weekends.

5/3/2011 1:38:51 PM

I'm a landlord, but not a lawyer. My take.

1) Eviction is not quick. Unlikely they would succeed in getting you out in the 50 day period. They would only have credit action if you failed to meet your financial obligations. If your deposit covered the remaining rent and any damages, they would have no case against you. They would still be obligated to return any money to you if there was some left.

2) You'll probably lose that one. Advanced notice is usually a call ahead. It isnt realistic for realtors to schedule all their showings 24 hours in advance. My suggestion is having the listing agent adjust the showing times. They can put notes in the file such that the house can not be shown at certain times and days. Your best bet is being really nice to them about this, and bargaining. They need you to keep the house clean, but there are things you can do that will negatively affect their ability to sell the house. They should know this, and not be dicks.

3) Unknown. I dont believe there is anything they can do about you being in the house. They have the right to show it. They dont have the right to make you leave.

Bottom line, the landlord has fucked up a lot by not working with you. I'd never pull a stunt like this on a tenant. I would develop a schedule for showings with the tenant and stick to that schedule.

If this is owned by a couple and not a company, you could probably scare the crap out of them with one letter from a lawyer. Don't send it to the management company. Send it to the owners.

[Edited on May 3, 2011 at 1:49 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2011 1:47:44 PM

Just leave the house as messy as possible and make it more difficult for them to sell the house. Lock all of the interior doors so they have to key them all open, leave clutter everywhere, etc. Just generally drag your feet about anything and everything that they want you to do. Make it as difficult for them as it is for you.

Since you only have 50 days left, you should just start packing your stuff up slowly and put the boxes all over the house and in hallways, etc. Then at least you will be ready to move out.

I also like carzin's idea of having pre set days and times that they can schedule to come see the house.

5/3/2011 2:59:52 PM

Yeah, it seems like they are being totally ridiculous with you. If they want to pull the old, "We're within the rights of our contract," routine, then two can play at that game. I would go to the porn store and find the most obnoxious porn possible.... fat girl porn, gay porn, grannie porn..... use your imagination. Post pictures in every room of the house. Turn the heat up to ridiculous levels when you know people are coming over. Don't flush. Make it very clear that if they are going to make life inconvenient for you, then they will not be selling their house while you are there. It might sound like a bitch move, but in all seriousness, they started it, so fuck them.

5/3/2011 3:23:12 PM

Well, there are consequences to that. If they need to move elsewhere, they'll lose any ability to get a good recommendation.

The best thing to do is contact the landlord directly, explain the situation with the showings, ask them to conform to predetermined time slots, and try again.

5/3/2011 3:58:50 PM

Quote :

"Just leave the house as messy as possible and make it more difficult for them to sell the house. Lock all of the interior doors so they have to key them all open, leave clutter everywhere, etc. Just generally drag your feet about anything and everything that they want you to do. Make it as difficult for them as it is for you."

Do the opposite of this. There is no reason to be passive aggressive. I would call up the landlord and apologize for the miscues and be as nice as possible and try to rework an acceptable showing time schedule.

5/3/2011 4:15:15 PM

And then leave an upper decker in each toilet.

5/3/2011 4:20:52 PM

I think the landlord already has made it clear that he is playing hardball. Maybe being vindictive is not yours (or HUR's) style, but when people fuck with me like they are doing to him, I don't feel remotely bad. They have basically kicked him out of his house so they can sell it - that's well within their bounds. But that is still technically "his" house for 50 days, and they are treating him like shit.

5/3/2011 4:22:08 PM

there is nothing outrageous about wanting to show a house on an evening or saturday morning, that's when people look at houses.

call the real estate agent, explain schedule restrictions regarding your roommate who works late and sleeps in, and don't be so difficult about it.

5/3/2011 4:28:18 PM

The landlord is an asshole. He/She should just wait until their lease is up before putting the house on the market. Their tenants are being annoyed as shit by this simply because they want free staging for the house.

Fuck 'em.

5/3/2011 4:31:29 PM

Yeah, the only card you;re holding is basically "make the house I live in shitty."

I'd take the polite tack and try to explain why an 8am showing is a problem.

5/3/2011 4:33:28 PM

being passive aggressive about this is a terrible idea.

if you just explained to them your schedule restrictions they are going to work with you. being a dick is just going to make your life a headache.

5/3/2011 4:34:46 PM

I know in internetland that the key to winning is to be the biggest asshole, but it doesn't work like that in life. The main mistake the selling agent made was to verbally agree to those unreasonable selling stipulations in the first place. 24 hr showing notice is not at all common, nor is the part where you have to be present which severely limits the number of possible showing hours.

There is no reason to go the passive aggressive route. In fact, unless you have a reason why you need to be at this location for another 50 days, I would go ahead and be looking for the next place and see if they will let you out of your lease early. Seems like a win win.

5/3/2011 4:45:31 PM

Quote :

" Bottom line, the landlord has fucked up a lot by not working with you. I'd never pull a stunt like this on a tenant. I would develop a schedule for showings with the tenant and stick to that schedule."

Pretty much. We are already pretty pissy about having to move. Figuring they would not sell the house in two months, I even tried to negotiate an extension of the house for a month. This of course would be tentative on them now selling the house within the 30 days of us moving out. Yet she expects us to keep the house in pristine condition and open the house up on 2 hour notice for random people to look at.

Quote :

" If this is owned by a couple and not a company, you could probably scare the crap out of them with one letter from a lawyer. Don't send it to the management company. Send it to the owners."

Good call.

Quote :

" Turn the heat up to ridiculous levels when you know people are coming over."

We do not even have to “try” to do this. The A/C at this residence is horrible. Even on the Normal April 78 degree days, the AC is running 100% with the interior barely keeping under 80 (thermostat temp of 75).

Quote :

" Do the opposite of this. There is no reason to be passive aggressive. I would call up the landlord and apologize for the miscues and be as nice as possible and try to rework an acceptable showing time schedule."

We have no direct access to the owner. All is done through Century 21.

Quote :

" call the real estate agent, explain schedule restrictions regarding your roommate who works late and sleeps in, and don't be so difficult about it."

By the way I neglected to state it in the original e-mail but I have attempted this. A 3rd party company handles the arrangement of appointments and we have attempted numerous occasions for them leave notes for the agents about showing the house at a better time. Plus, I complained to Century 21 (since we can not talk to the owner directly) and requested for them to discuss with the owner our feelings on the issue.

5/3/2011 4:51:30 PM

I would just go about my life normally. If the house is messy, too bad. If your buddies are over drinking, let them stay and drink.

5/3/2011 5:19:16 PM

^I agree. Be cordial, be polite - but don't go out of your way.

5/3/2011 7:02:47 PM

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/gascripts/statutes/StatutesTOC.pl?Chapter=0042

Short version: You have paid for the right of quiet possession of the property. Eviction proceedings take longer than 50 days. Sales agents bitch when they can't show a house. You don't have to be a dick anymore than you want to be.

5/3/2011 7:06:08 PM

What does your lease actually say? Did you read it, or are you going by what the lady on the phone said?

5/3/2011 7:25:21 PM

I am literally in the exact same situation. I live in another state (I assume you are in NC), but back in November, our landlord told us the exact same thing.

I've been through the "house must be clean at all times," the ridiculous attempts to schedule viewings, and a breakdown in the relationship (which was previously very professional) between tenant and landlord.

Here's my take - my landlord's dire financial situation does not mean she should expect my roomies and I to have any motivation to help her sell the townhome. PM me and I could give you some details of the shit we've been through, but basically I went to student legal services, which I have access to as a grad student at CU, to see where we stood with tenant rights.

That lawyer sees quite a few cases like this with younger tenants, reviewed our lease, and basically said if things got messy, we would probably be fine. In the end, our landlord offered to buy us out (this was last November, our lease goes through July 31) of the lease, but we couldn't agree on an amount, so our place was taken off the market.

*** Big piece of advice - buy a cheap webcam and take timelapse pics on your rooms on any days that you have a visit. My iPad was also stolen during this shitstorm. From then on, I just used the iSight camera in my mac to do 10s time lapse movies during visits. The agents do NOT keep the tenants under close watch when they're in your place ***

5/3/2011 7:34:44 PM

Just decline the showing appointments that do not have 24 hours notice, if that is in the criteria. Most of the shoppers will not come back, if they do you have 24 hours notice.

5/4/2011 10:06:46 PM

Quote :

"What does your lease actually say? Did you read it, or are you going by what the lady on the phone said?"

Yeah. Checking to see what the lease says would be the first thing I would do.

5/4/2011 10:13:04 PM

I would not pay another dime of rent.

5/5/2011 11:38:52 AM

you have paid to be in the house. you have a right to the property.

you are doing them a favor by any cleaning or putting up with any inconvenience that comes upon you.

however, being a grown up, I am sure you can appreciate their need to try and sell the house as quickly as possible, which is why you agreed to said inconveniences. that said, they should be grown up and understand that you LIVE there and have no motivation to sell their house. they shouldve offered you free rent or something in return to give you incentive.

5/5/2011 12:42:14 PM

If/when this happens with my homes, I will probably give them an incentive of 20% off rent to put up with showings on pre-assigned days and times.

5/5/2011 1:14:34 PM

I think that is very appropriate. Or offer them a $texas bonus if the house sells while they are in it...which would give them incentive to keep it clean and be flexible.

5/5/2011 1:25:29 PM

in this thread we continue to learn how HUR is a racist fuckboy who needs his hand held through everything in life

5/5/2011 3:01:12 PM

Yeah, the racism in this thread is horrendous.

5/5/2011 3:04:44 PM

So the situation gets even better. Currently the apartment barely stays habitable even on a warm day. With recent temperatures in the high 70's and low 80's, our HVAC runs 100% during a sunny day. Temperatures inside warm to 80+ degrees.

We called to complain about the A/C (or lack there of) and they sent out a technician who topped the freon off. This did not fix the problem, and to put salt in the wound the owner is taking this visit out of our security deposit. She claims that the technician found the filter clogged up and a dining room vent shut.

This absolutle bullshit as the filter is barely 2 months old. Further, we received our bi-annual inspection and passed with no issues claimed about our air filter. Our lease agreement clearly states that we are responsible for replacing the filter on a 3 month schedule. Further the "closed vent" in the dining room is not even connected to the HVAC system. The vent opens straight into the attic, as the morons who renovated the garage into a bedroom, merely took the duct going to the dining room and plopped it onto the vent for what was the garage.

What legally can I do about this? If i replace the filter and the A/C still will not maintain a reasonable temperature; I should incur no responsibility for the cost of the maintenance visit. I also believe that the lack of responsiblity taken by the owner to correct the HVAC is a breach of lessor obligation for maintaining a hospitable unit.

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 11:17 AM. Reason : a]

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 11:18 AM. Reason : a]

5/6/2011 11:17:19 AM

Small claaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimmmmmmmmmmmmmmms

5/6/2011 11:25:42 AM

I want to be sure... Is the management company telling you this, or the owner? Management companies are bastards. it why I dont use them for anything other than finding a tenant. You need to pick up the phone and discuss the numerous situations in a calm professional manner with the owner.

5/6/2011 12:30:12 PM

+1, property records and google should find the owner quickly, even if the management company won't tell you. Be careful what you say, since you will probably have to take them to small claims.

5/6/2011 12:49:13 PM

if you live in Wake County
http://services.wakegov.com/realestate/


Also who needs the A/C during "recent temperatures in the high 70's and low 80's, our HVAC runs 100% during a sunny day." That's perfect window open and maybe a fan weather, I wont turn mine on until we hit 90+

5/6/2011 1:27:22 PM

i can probably get you a phone number for the owner in 15 minutes or less

5/6/2011 1:44:38 PM

Quote :

" want to be sure... Is the management company telling you this, or the owner? Management companies are bastards. it why I dont use them for anything other than finding a tenant."

This is the owner's request being delivered by Century 21. The mainteance guy who "came" by was not a Century 21 mainteance
contractor, but the owner's personnal mainteance man. Two weeks before the Century 21 inspector passed our house (including air filteR)
on the semi-annual inspection. There are also notes from previous reports from the Century 21 HVAC crews last summer
about the HVAC's inadequacy to provide the proper cooling load to the house.

Quote :

"Also who needs the A/C during "recent temperatures in the high 70's and low 80's, our HVAC runs 100% during a sunny da"

Our house has no shade protection. Due to simple thermodynamics, the house will be warmer than the ambient environment due to solar insolation.

5/6/2011 2:13:59 PM

doesn't matter what you all agreed to verbally, what does it say in writing

does it say that they:
1) have to provide 24 hour advanced notice
2) or just reasonable time

simple as that

5/6/2011 2:23:24 PM

^

Quote :

"the lease agreement permits "showing of the house during reasonable hours upon advanced notice.”"

5/6/2011 3:46:21 PM

sorry then you have no case.....it's reasonable and often times the norm for to schedule showings on the spot, or even agents calling just a couple of hours before to schedule.....agents use the CSS system, which actually tries to get agents/buyers into the property within the hour

[Edited on May 6, 2011 at 4:52 PM. Reason : k]

5/6/2011 4:51:22 PM

Quite right. Negotiate a schedule, get it in writing, and stick to it. If you don't want to be woken up at 8am by a phone call, put it in the schedule how early they can call. But 24 hour advance notice seems like a dick move just to make it difficult for them to show the house. The rules should be simple: If it is allowed on the schedule, someone is home, and I answer their call, then they can do a showing.

Now, that is what I would do because human being need to get along with each other. Legally speaking, the contract is vague with implied definitions. However, you have a verbal agreement defining what prior notice is, namely 24 hours. As such, you have a moral right to enforce this rule which never should have been made in the first place (they are idiots for agreeing to it and you were wrong to expect it).

5/6/2011 11:55:28 PM

Quote :

"CarZin patent pending 9287 Posts user info edit post Well, there are consequences to that. If they need to move elsewhere, they'll lose any ability to get a good recommendation. The best thing to do is contact the landlord directly, explain the situation with the showings, ask them to conform to predetermined time slots, and try again. 5/3/2011 3:58:50 PM "

best advice /thread

5/7/2011 1:21:39 AM

Certified mail

5/7/2011 1:34:16 AM

Actually, the phone conversation would matter. NC is a state that permits oral contracts.

5/7/2011 5:32:34 AM

I hated this when I lived in an apartment. I finally gave up caring and just slept with my door locked. Never got any grief for it though.

5/7/2011 6:29:28 AM

I had this happen and would just say no (or clutter the house) when all the agreed upon terms were not met. They told me to move out because I was being unreasonable so I did (there are a billion places to live, moving sucks but you can do anything for two days). House was foreclosed ~4 months later.

My advice : Just be a PITA until they make you move. If its obvious they are facing money problems you have the upper hand and will eventually get the last laugh.

5/7/2011 9:28:13 AM

Passive agressiveness itt. Be the bigger man, I wouldn't go out of my way to help out but keeping the house clean and accommodating a couple 20 min showings isn't the end of the world. I understand you're frustration as it seems you have a particularly thick skulled landlord/management company, but acting childish is NOT going to help the situation(not saying you are, just being advised to). If anything I'd suggest you just start finding a new place to live and try to get out a month early.

5/7/2011 10:26:49 AM

...as if we needed another confirmation that HUR is an internet badass but a real life kitten.

5/7/2011 10:50:33 AM

Quote :

"Quote : " Do the opposite of this. There is no reason to be passive aggressive. I would call up the landlord and apologize for the miscues and be as nice as possible and try to rework an acceptable showing time schedule." We have no direct access to the owner. All is done through Century 21."

Quote :

"+1, property records and google should find the owner quickly, even if the management company won't tell you. Be careful what you say, since you will probably have to take them to small claims. "

Tax records will help you find this.

Quote :

"I would not pay another dime of rent."

Do NOT do this. This doesnt help you at all.

Fight the HVAC charge. Your inspection is proof against this.

As a couple of posts have said, get this is writing now. Refuse any showings until this is done. Get some legal help.

Quote :

"Actually, the phone conversation would matter. NC is a state that permits oral contracts."

Not sure if this is valid, but Id check into it. If it is, find your phone records and haul them to court if they dont agree to it.

Good Luck with this!

5/7/2011 6:42:27 PM

^ & whoever else brought it up....

Verbal contracts are binding in NC but they are NOT enforceable simply because there's no proof. Phone records will simply show a call was made and anyone with an iq over 80 is smart enough to say "I just called to check on the house and tell them we'd give a couple HOURS notice"

Contract says they'll give you advanced notice so all they have to do is call when they're on the way. You have no legal leg to stand on since you signed that contract. You need to talk to the owner like an adult to see if you can work something out. Otherwise you're between the agents and a several thousand dollar commission and you're just some kid renting the place so who gives a shit whether you like it.

5/8/2011 7:51:52 AM

^ truth

5/8/2011 4:12:42 PM

Quote :

"you're just some kid renting the place so who gives a shit whether you like it. "

I work for the 2nd biggest private employer in the county. A friendly trip to our HR department has the potential to lose them $1000's in potential revenue from our current relationship with century 21 for providing housing to new hires.

Ideally the landlord should let us get out of the lease early, such that she can clean the place up and show off the property whenever the fuck the agents want to.

Just need to get the lady's number, century 21 won't give it. If I provide the address and owner's name could anyone look it up?

[Edited on May 9, 2011 at 9:03 AM. Reason : a]

5/9/2011 9:01:57 AM

Look at your lease. Most leases establish that notice must be given in advance in writing. If this is the case, you can point out that clause and they'd have to give you writing in advance.

5/9/2011 11:31:23 AM