I'm pretty sure they don't. I've been out of school for 2 years this May. Every job listed anywhere wants 3-5 years exp at least. I worked in politics for the past few years, as a Campaign Manager then as a consultant with a consulting firm. As campaigns end, so do the jobs. Have been unable to find a job without a 6 month timeline and everything I apply to wants 3+ years exp. /rant

4/14/2011 4:16:01 PM

Yes.

4/14/2011 4:19:09 PM

I've had the same troubles. It got so frustrating that I eventually decided to go back to school and get a more "useful" degree, with which I hope to have better luck finding a job.


Though it is not too surprising that a bs/ms in math is useless unless you want to teach or get your phd

4/14/2011 4:19:26 PM

Quote :

"I've had the same troubles. It got so frustrating that I eventually decided to go back to school and get a more "useful" degree, with which I hope to have better luck finding a job."

4/14/2011 4:23:15 PM

Yeah, they exist. If you've got a degree in some kind of humanities, you're most likely not going to find anything related to what you studied. Chalk it up to a B.A. being the new high school degree and either retool or find some kind of service job that pays 10-14 bucks an hour. After a couple of years of working in that kind of position you should be able to find something more lucrative.

4/14/2011 4:24:06 PM

if you are really having trouble finding a job, take one of the 6 month positions and try to leverage that into something better. every job i've had was because of a job i had before. only one time did i ever have trouble finding a job, and when i was about to take a part time bs job a real job found me.

do none of the contacts you've made working in campaigns know of anything? if i were you i would start setting up some lunches and touching base with everyone in your network.

4/14/2011 4:28:30 PM

^they do know people. The issue is, I moved to another state with my fiancee to be with her while she is in dental school. If I were still in NC I'm confident I'd have no issue. I came with her because I felt it was the right thing to do, was confident in my skills and my track record of success and thought I was young enough that I could move and start over, it hasn't proven that easy.

4/14/2011 4:33:45 PM

there's always a career in pdrankin films

4/14/2011 4:39:12 PM

They do exist, but for a lot of the corporate world the entry level job has been replaced with internships. Less cost to the company and they don't have to commit as much to your development up front.

4/14/2011 6:05:01 PM

are you part of any professional organizations? if so, find when the local group meets and start attending events. linkedin may also be a good place, join groups related to your profession and keep an eye on anything in your area.

4/14/2011 6:32:55 PM

same ole "i cant or dont want to move" thread again. the employer has thousands if not tens of thousands of people from all over the company to choose from. you have to beat out all of them. Meanwhile you are limited to a very select few employers due to your inflexibility.

tough break, but that's the way it works.

4/14/2011 7:35:29 PM

Yes, they exist.

At my company, a masters degree is worth 2-3 years of experience. A Ph.D. is worth around 4.

On top of that, at many companies that 3-5 years of exp. is a 'nice to have' in an applicant. Almost any hiring manager/HR rep can make an exception if they're really interested in you.

4/14/2011 7:50:02 PM

Quote :

"Though it is not too surprising that a bs/ms in math is useless unless you want to teach or get your phd"

Not true at all. How was your GPA? I have a BS in math and managed to land something. It did take 6 months or so though.

4/14/2011 7:50:14 PM

maybe its because you drink pee?

4/14/2011 8:08:22 PM

What type of position are you looking for?

4/14/2011 8:10:14 PM

just because they desire a certain amount of experience shouldn't deter you from applying. you really never know.

[Edited on April 14, 2011 at 8:40 PM. Reason : at least with lower level salaried jobs]

4/14/2011 8:39:55 PM

Quote :

"Not true at all. How was your GPA? I have a BS in math and managed to land something. It did take 6 months or so though."

my gpa was outstanding- the issue was that i had no interest in education or doing pure theoretical research for the rest of my career. I got into math publishing at a small company while in grad school in SC, but my experience was not considered to be enough to get a job at any larger companies in the field.

unless you specialize in a particular application (finance, stoch. processes/modeling, operations research, actuarial science, etc...), math is not the easiest degree to translate into the work force.

4/14/2011 8:51:38 PM

try an internship? that's what i'm doing

i also applied for a job that only required an associates degree with 3 years experience. figured my bachelors degree would even out the lack of experience i have.

i'm definitely lowering my standards, but you gotta start somewhere. and I can always work my way up to a "big girl job"

a job > no job

i'll do practically anything to stop waiting tables

4/14/2011 9:02:14 PM

Move out of NC.

At my current job, when I first started almost 6 years was temp and all didnt expect it to last long, just wanted the experience, the temp thing lead to a perm job but I had to move three times to land it. I have been at my present location for over three and a half years (when I got the perm position an I had to move to another state to get it). The first time I applied because the annoucement basically said no experience (temp job) and the second time, the perm one, I thought it was a long shot because I didnt have the experience, but I figured I would anyways (said many openings). It had short answer questions but I had already answered them for other positions, every annoucement asked about your written and oral communication skills, so it took me just 15 or so minutes to apply. I found out later they REALLY needed people and took chances on people that did not have the experience. It also helped that I was already working for the agency....I work for the feds and been working for them for over 6 years now (both temp and perm). At least now you do not have short answer questions, but that makes the applicant field huge now.

It seems the way to get in with the feds now is the contractor route, it is like a training ground.





[Edited on April 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM. Reason : w]

4/14/2011 9:25:53 PM

Yeah being a freshman in college is entry level
Having an internship is entry level

I'm astraladvent and I approved this message

4/14/2011 9:41:33 PM

1. Get a technical degree
2. Move to where the jobs are
3. The job ad that says 3-5 years is just a trick. They will take less if the candidate is strong and has the gumption to actually apply.

If you follow these 3 steps, you will have no problem getting a job.


If you studied some humanities, lord knows what you have to do to get someone to pay you for your "skills."

4/14/2011 11:16:49 PM

^ /thread

4/14/2011 11:55:09 PM

We have many openings in Iraq / Afghanistan / Libya

If interested please apply, no previous experience required.

Oh yeah, unless you're from the entitlement generation and think that a BA is a meal-ticket. It IS the new high school degree and is far from a credential. It's a license to exist at or marginally higher than the poverty line in some, but not most, job markets.

Plus, I think the question was answered. Just because you can't find something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

So:
Yes

4/15/2011 12:08:56 AM

Quote :

"unless you specialize in a particular application (finance, stoch. processes/modeling, operations research, actuarial science, etc...), math is not the easiest degree to translate into the work force. "

Only my opinion, but I felt like just the opposite was true. I think math is a highly marketable degree to companies that understand that it teaches how to think creatively and logically, skills that transfer to a huge variety of fields. Firms and hiring managers that are worth working for will realize that what math majors lack in specialized technical knowledge can more than be made up for by the skillset that the degree gives them.

4/15/2011 12:12:31 AM

Math: It Adds Up

also - I highly recommend this book as far as jobs are concerned:


Gentleman's Guide ISBN: 3-8331-1061-9

It's kind of a hard book to find, and I bought it in a high end custom suit store in Glasgow, Scotland.

Basically it answers everything from: why you should not wear French cuffs to a job interview, why LaCoste's logo is an alligator, and the difference between trousers, slacks, and pique polos, etc. etc. There are a lot of little rules that make a huge difference in dressing for whatever your purpose.

Bottom line is that if you can't market yourself as a person in a back room crunching numbers and/or providing a very valuable indispensable service, you have to be a salesman and be able to influence people to get a decent job.

You have to flag signals with the clothes you wear, nobody wants to hire a fat person, so make sure you're in tip-top shape for a job interview, and don't have your expectations too high in general about anything.

[Edited on April 15, 2011 at 2:39 AM. Reason : ]

4/15/2011 2:28:25 AM

Quote :

" the difference between trousers, slacks, and pique polos"

Do you really need a book to tell you the difference between these 3 items?

4/15/2011 8:48:18 AM

Yes because most people think they know but they are wrong.

Did you know that certain ties on suits are actually patterned for certain fraternal organisations in the UK and you can come across as the obnoxious American if you wear one unwittingly while in the presence of a member? No real offense, it's equivalent to farting on the tennis court next to a business partner.

There are many things people think they know, but they're wrong. Like the difference between a sportscoat and a blazer? Yes, there's a diff. Then again, it depends on how much you care to know.

4/15/2011 9:09:46 AM

Trousers.
Slacks.
Pique Polos.

4/15/2011 9:17:22 AM

they do and we've hired mostly college grads over the past year

4/15/2011 9:18:53 AM

Somehow, I don't think these are the barriers that the OP is running into. in 2011, very few job sectors are that superficial about what tie or cufflinks you're wearing to an interview. I have no desire to be a government bureaucrat, lobbyist, or work on wall street.

If I'm going to be judged on my accessories and not my skills, i can be certain it's not a company I want to work for.

So far I've done ok with that mindset. But if that's the game you want to play, by all means, go for it. be a douche.


[Edited on April 15, 2011 at 9:24 AM. Reason : .]

4/15/2011 9:23:41 AM

Entry level jobs do exist, but without the specific industry experience you are referring to most of them are

1) customer service or call center jobs

2) mostly commission based. they go by all sorts of names, but they end up being some form of sales job.

As far as the whole moving thing goes, well you have to decide whether moving is worth giving up whatever you have going on in your area. If you are settled and like where you are, moving for a marginally paying and/or potentially uninteresting job may not be worth it. The more compelling the opportunity the more it makes sense to go. If you don't have much going on where you currently live then there's less reason to stay.

[Edited on April 15, 2011 at 11:35 AM. Reason : .]

4/15/2011 11:31:48 AM

come to California, where the entry level jobs flow like milk and honey

4/15/2011 11:35:28 AM

should have majored in engineering

4/15/2011 12:51:59 PM

Employers ask for the world. Apply anyway. "Years of experience" is normally bullshit.




We ask for a masters and 7-10 years experience for helpdesk positions. We usually end up hiring someone's son who is a high school grad with a cert or two.

4/15/2011 1:06:14 PM

Trousers snake

4/15/2011 1:20:06 PM

[quote]should have majored in engineering[quote]

no shit

4/15/2011 2:28:41 PM

wake tech offers job-ready skills in two years or less...

4/15/2011 2:39:50 PM

^i have marketable skills. I managed a few house races in NC then was a consultant for a campaign firm and did government affairs and policy research/advising. I guess the issue is that I don't know anyone in KY and it's taking a while to network.

4/15/2011 2:48:43 PM

Quote :

"We ask for a masters and 7-10 years experience for helpdesk positions"

wow

4/15/2011 3:04:51 PM

it doesn't count as a job-ready skill if you can't get a job with it, b.

4/16/2011 1:41:53 PM

Quote :

"my gpa was outstanding- the issue was that i had no interest in education or doing pure theoretical research for the rest of my career. I got into math publishing at a small company while in grad school in SC, but my experience was not considered to be enough to get a job at any larger companies in the field. unless you specialize in a particular application (finance, stoch. processes/modeling, operations research, actuarial science, etc...), math is not the easiest degree to translate into the work force. "

You're just a moron then. Math is not an impossible degree to get a job with.

4/16/2011 8:25:36 PM

Math is definitely a great degree for getting a job. Statistics is an awesome degree too. One of the biggest compliments of my life was when the Dean of the College of Mathematics (PAMS) sent me an invitation to study statistics in 2001 based on my performance on the AP test, I assume. I mean, who more flattering to receive an invitation from? He obviously knows how to interpret the data and make decisions on who gets a personalized letter. I saved the letter, but it did him no good because I still did CHASS but I am happy with my life. I did do two solid years of the engineering prereqs, though, and you have to be able to think logically in today's world. Nobody wants creative writing vignettes about candycanes all day.

The most important thing is finding what is happy. It's a market, meaning asking conditions are always higher than what comes to the negotiation. Would anyone legitimately put out a hiring notice stating that mediocre people with limited experience are wanted ?


From the letter (2001):

Quote :

" Don't be at all intimidated by the thought of being in with the Statistics majors. First, you are a very strong student. Second, in grading an honors section one understands that very possibly all of the students will perform well and earn high grades. You might even decide that majoring in Statistics is for you! (I confess that part of my motivation in inviting selected First Year College students to join this section is to see whether I can turn them on to Statistics as a possible major - but you won't be put under any pressure.) "

[Edited on April 16, 2011 at 9:00 PM. Reason : ]

4/16/2011 8:50:34 PM

Since I have obviously taken an interest in your thread aside from venting about my own testimonial experiences going through job transitions (check out my Miami thread), I felt I would also share this with you because I have a vested interest in seeing my fellow Wolfpackers succeed.

If you want to get hired, you need to get a good suit based on the following - when you have these items in your wardrobe, any one of them will get you hired (this is a standard business professional wardrobe).

After you spend about 3 grand building an adequate professional wardrobe, you should be able to point at each of your basic suit patterns, explain what they are, and be able to envision an appropriate occasion for each, so you don't screw it up.

Any store that can either order these patterns for you or at least can speak the language is a place that you should get fitted and buy your suit from.

White pinstripes on blue background: uniform of most stockbrokers, bankers, lawyers, and politicians

Gray pinstripe on gray background: most popular alternative to standard pinstripe

Dark gray, almost black pinstriped fabric: ultra-conservative city variant that will probably get you hired and is a good choice for your job interview

Nailhead: classic pattern than comes in shades of gray or blue and gray.

Plain worsted: all colors - typically what you buy when you get your first suit

Chalk-striped pattern: most popular for double breasted and always mistakenly called pinstripe

Glen check: acceptable and classic, but may appear to make you look like a used car salesman



Get a darker charcoal plain worsted or almost black pinstriped pattern above dark charcoal, smile, and say smart things, and you'll probably get hired.

4/16/2011 9:36:25 PM

If you think $3000 worth of suits is a key to getting a job and succeeding in it, you are a fucking idiot. Only the most dysfunctional industries and companies care about that shit.

The vast majority of engineering places don't care about this at all. Dress nice if you want to. Don't dress like a slob. This is minor advice.

The major advice is to provide value to a company. If you don't have the major, internships, gpa, or connections, you will have problems. No company is going to invest $100,000 to hire someone because they dress like a fucking metrosexual. If they do, they are idiots and are not serious about succeeding in the business they are in.

I interview a lot of people, and I can't imagine any competent interviewer giving a flying fuck about whether someone is wearing a goddamn designer suit over a regular one. If I knew an interviewer who did look at this shit, I would get him or her off of interview duties because they have stupid fucking judgement.

4/16/2011 10:48:48 PM

^^Yeah, that is so not correct.

4/16/2011 11:21:48 PM

My first job was entry level.

My second job wanted 5+ yrs of experience and I had 1.5 yrs.

My current job wanted 5+yrs of experience and I had 3


years of experience is the dumbest reason ever not to apply for a job. I'm smarter than everyone I ever met at my first job (including my boss and their bosses). I'm smarter than everyone I ever met at my 2nd job i'm fairly certain.

At my third job I'm smarter than probably 50% of the people I encounter but many are very close and my estimate is debateable.


You can't substitute experience for everything. Apply for the job and get the interview and then tell them why they should hire you. It's not that hard to be the best applicant if you are the best applicant. Don't let some bullshit qualifications the HR manager set detour you from taking the job you want away from you. She's likely one of the least qualified people at that company.

[Edited on April 17, 2011 at 12:54 AM. Reason : advice]

4/17/2011 12:54:08 AM

McDonald's is hiring fifty thousand people this Tuesday, and this motherfucker thinks entry-level jobs might not exist.

4/17/2011 7:50:28 AM

I got a BA in history, and I'm currently working at one of the best pediatric practices in the state. I figure my administrative peon position will give me enough experience (almost 2 years, so far) to apply at any of the very large hospitals in the area as a business analyst or something similar.

4/17/2011 11:15:32 AM

Learn to network. The 2 entry level jobs I've had, and couple not entry level, were created specifically for me. Don't look through classifieds, work through contacts. Even if your best ones don't have anything for you, they will know someone who does. You don't have to play the HR game, when the CFO, or president of the company calls HR, and tells them that they are hiring you...

[Edited on April 17, 2011 at 11:46 AM. Reason : But I don't have a general generic liberal arts degree... ie history ]

4/17/2011 11:43:52 AM

Quote :

"If you want to get hired, you need to get a good suit based on the following - when you have these items in your wardrobe, any one of them will get you hired (this is a standard business professional wardrobe). After you spend about 3 grand building an adequate professional wardrobe, you should be able to point at each of your basic suit patterns, explain what they are, and be able to envision an appropriate occasion for each, so you don't screw it up. "

Dumbest shit I've read today. You are probably one of those idiots wearing a power bracelet, claiming it makes you faster/stronger at the gym.

4/17/2011 12:06:02 PM