I'm currently in a position where I will go to one of two MBA programs, NC State or Duke. The issue is that NC State will pay for me to attend their program while I would have to foot the entirety of the Duke bill. NC States program is around 38k and Duke's is 105k, making a huge difference in money spent.

Does choice of MBA school matter? While I rather not be weighed down with 105k in debt, I would consider it money well spent if employers consider an NC State MBA all but worthless. Money isn't the most important factor in my decision to get an MBA, but I rather not be worse off financially after I put in all the hard work.

Has anyone here gotten an MBA from either school, or know people who have?

1/27/2011 4:40:58 PM

Look up the average starting salaries of graduates of both schools. See how much the difference is, and how long it would take to make up the 105K to pay it off with the increased salary (Duke's, obviously). Estimate how long your working life is going to be. Then see if you will still make more in your working life after paying off the 105K. Of course, you would have to assume that you will earn the average pay and it will stay constant throughout your working life.

1/27/2011 4:45:46 PM

Duke. You'll make up the difference in costs before your 35th birthday. After that its all profit.

Every state has a school on par with NC State. You'll be thrown in with everyone else who went back to school because they couldn't find a job in this economy. Duke is elite. You'll be the pick of the litter with all the Ivy league kids. Bonus points if you plan on settling somewhere in the northeast.

[Edited on January 27, 2011 at 5:08 PM. Reason : x]

1/27/2011 4:57:18 PM

^

1/27/2011 5:09:45 PM

^3 That is pretty much what I did and Duke's came out on top, but then I started thinking about how those Duke averages are slanted based on people in major brokerage firms.



^ succinctly put.

1/27/2011 5:16:08 PM

then try to find median salaries from somewhere!

but yeah... duke vs. ncsu? no comparison!

1/27/2011 5:17:45 PM

Agreed -- NC State is on the nice end of 'state' schools, but it's a state school to just about everyone not in NC. The NCSU MBA mean salary (upon graduation) was around 73-77 when I finished up with an MA in Econ (where they quoted us average of 65, no experience).

1/27/2011 7:35:42 PM

i'd rather have the econ degree, but that's me

1/27/2011 8:14:24 PM

The bigger question is "Is an MBA worth it?"

1/27/2011 8:45:52 PM

^ I honestly think so. Some may argue it's a lot of upper-level undergrad classes redone for a young professional, but, it's good experience I think.

If nothing else, it looks good on a resume and will open doors for you. I (and I would advise against actually) went straight from undergrad to grad (MA econ) at NCSU and the degree has served its purpose well. I think I got into a job that would have been unattainable with just the undergrad, and the compensation was out of my undergrad range. It has been about 2 years but the degree has almost paid for itself already.

1/27/2011 9:01:44 PM

People look most at the last school you attended. Advantage: Duke.

OTOH, if you plan to enter a field where NCSU has a strong program (supply chain comes to mind), it may make sense to go there instead.

1/27/2011 9:28:37 PM

why'd you rule out kenan-flagler?

1/28/2011 12:09:17 PM

^LOL

1/28/2011 12:35:34 PM

From my personal 'unqualified' experience, Kenan seems more discriminating of a MBA program than Duke (doesnt mean its better). Duke seems to take just about anyone with money. There are multiple people in my department ( I work at UNC ) that have been turned down my UNC and had to go to Duke instead. I have heard the same story from external candidates. It seems in most cases, their employer is paying, and they didnt get accepted to UNC but got accepted to Duke, so Duke will be taking their money.

Personally, I think the MBA stuff is laughable, and the market is being flooded with a bunch of people that think they know business and are immediately entitled to 100k jobs.

[Edited on January 28, 2011 at 12:52 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2011 12:47:32 PM

Yeah, we saw what's happening to all those law school graduates....
I'm tempted to get an MBA but unsure about the ROI. Sure if you're making 35K a year and double your salary to "around 73-77" it would be worth it but if you're already paid well, the longer it would take for the mba to pay for itself.

1/28/2011 12:53:07 PM

Well, there are only so many management spots to go around. And this is the age of cutting the manager. So you do the math. Everyone wants to cut the people that are managing to have money for the people actually doing the work. Doesnt mean, however, it cant be of great personal benefit. But if you are hooking up with an MBA expecting $$$s to start dropping, I think you missed that boat by 5 or 6 years.

1/28/2011 12:56:57 PM

Quote :

"why'd you rule out kenan-flagler?"

In all honesty, because I am a state grad and eating all the shit i've talked for years doesn't sound appealing to me. That aside, it is a good bit cheaper than Duke and the open house I went to this morning made it sound more appealing. kenan-flagler has made it to my list.

^
You believe that UNC is more difficult to get into than Duke? Schools accept different people for different reasons. There are plenty who made it into standford and harvard but not wharton, and those who made it to wharton but not standford or harvard. That being said, i have suspected what you said for a little while now.

The need for MBAs goes up and down a lot as the economy shifts. When I last looked for a job- last may- nearly every position I was a fit required an MBA or said it was preferred, and these weren't exec level jobs. If I ever find myself in a position where I am unemployed again, I will consider the MBA worth the investment if it shortens my search and provides me better opportunities.

1/28/2011 1:20:02 PM

"if it shortens my search and provides me better opportunities."

In my unqualified opinion, thats a good reason to get one.

[Edited on January 28, 2011 at 1:25 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2011 1:24:45 PM

Quote :

"Every state has a school on par with NC State. You'll be thrown in with everyone else who went back to school because they couldn't find a job in this economy. Duke is elite. You'll be the pick of the litter with all the Ivy league kids. Bonus points if you plan on settling somewhere in the northeast. "

I am really curious if the content of the material of a NC State (or UNC) MBA program is that much more quality than
that of your "elite" private schools like Duke. Even 50 years ago I would have argued sure, but in today's information
age my guess the difference is merely reputation.

Quote :

"The bigger question is "Is an MBA worth it?" "

If you are a scrub with a BS in Business Administration or Communications I would say yes. If you are an engineering degree
I would say doubtful, but it depends on what you want to do. Currently one of my peer engineers does the same shit I do, except
chemical engineering and she has her MBA.

1/28/2011 1:26:01 PM

I think the quality of education for an MBA at NCSU vs Duke vs UNC is extremely comparable. They all use the Harvard model for education. If your company offered to pay for NCSU I would go that route if you already make a decent salary, simply because the majority of jobs that require MBA just want to see that you attained one from a decent school. It depends on the field you want to pursue. Do you want to be front office/trader at a NY IB firm? Go to Ivy League. If you just want to be considered, go to NCSU. There is little difference bt UNC vs NCSU on paper IMO. NCSU's MBA program is very young. IIRC it went from 120th rank to ~60th in one or two years. With the new RTP offices being built I think it will gain prestige over time. So by the time you are done it will have moved up in the rank

1/28/2011 1:39:33 PM

^ About Carolina- that's why you shouldn't talk so much trash about the other school- you may want to go there for a good program one day.

I am looking at Carolina for either my MSN or an MPH degree in the far future- need to decide what direction I want to go after my BSN.

1/28/2011 6:09:22 PM

Are you ok with having that huge amount of debt hanging over your head for years and years and years? That also narrows your job choices in the sense that you will have to go where the money is so you aren't struggling to make your student loan payment.

1/28/2011 6:41:25 PM

i figured that's what it was. undergrad aside money is money, just don't forget your roots.

1/28/2011 8:18:16 PM

Education is a long term investment. Especially graduate level education. Think long term. Is NCSU, Duke, Kenan Flagler, or some other school going to pay off the most in the long run?

1/28/2011 11:59:45 PM

A few things to consider. If you are planning on borrowing the money inquire IF the lender will even lend you $150k + (tuition plus beer money) to support yourself for those two years or more. Credit is extremely tight these days.

More so, I think it comes down to WHAT you want to do with the MBA. If you want to work in NYC, by far Duke. If you want to work in the Triangle, I'd suggest NC State. Companies like Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley choose Duke to recruit and ignore NC State - while companies such as Cisco, Credit Suisse, NetApp, Biotech will recruit from NC State, and generally ignore Duke (although the outside applications for jobs would be highly regarded).

Also, keep in mind the level of debt. A $150k takes years and years and years to pay off. Figure that shit out before you accept an offer! A Non-profit job and marketing jobs won't pay that great, even with an Ivy league edu.

I've been a long believer that it really doesn't matter what school you go to, its how to apply it. There have been plenty of CEOs from Duke, and plently of prominent people from NC State. People are smart before they go to the program, I can assure you 90% of them are there for the letters to move them up the ladder.

And I hope you like broken english speaking asians....because Duke's class is made up of about 50% of them!

[Edited on January 29, 2011 at 12:09 AM. Reason : Screw UNCs old money out dated teaching MBA. How'd you get a full ride at ncsu?]

1/29/2011 12:07:51 AM

Quote :

"A Non-profit job and marketing jobs won't pay that great"

A MBA degree might not be the best degree if one was looking to go down that route.

http://pa.chass.ncsu.edu/prosStud/gradCert/non-profit.php

Quote :

"Nonprofit Certificate Program The Nonprofit Certificate program, built around regularly offered graduate courses, provides the basic knowledge and skill needed to manage nonprofit organizations. process, analysis and advocacy. The Nonprofit program is ranked 16th in the country by US News & World Report."

Quote :

"In addition, Graduate Certificates are offered in Nonprofit Management and Public Policy. The Graduate Certificate in Nonprofit Management, built around regularly offered graduate courses, provides the basic management knowledge skills needed in nonprofit organizations."

Quote :

"The MPA degree has over 1000 alumni who hold professional positions in federal, state, and local governments, and in the non-profit and private sectors."

1/29/2011 12:39:43 AM

Quote :

"How'd you get a full ride at ncsu?"

Strong undergrad and a 760 GMAT.

Quote :

"while companies such as Cisco, Credit Suisse, NetApp, Biotech will recruit from NC State, and generally ignore Duke (although the outside applications for jobs would be highly regarded"

Is this the case, really? I assume SAS would be in that bunch as well. Is this because those companies are affiliated with the schools, or because the school has something to offer that those companies really want. I understand that NCSUs program is "technology oriented" but does that really have a lot of impact?

1/29/2011 12:49:31 AM

Another opinion just for what it's worth if anything.

I live in Seattle and work for microsoft. I can speak from my experiences and colleagues out here from google amazon and Boeing. An MBA is a tie breaker in hiring. Where you got it from doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Half the executives I work with got their MBAs from online universities or night school at UW.

All other things being equal an MBA will beat out the guy without one. But outside of engineering college hires, I've never seen anyone give two shits about what program a potential hire came from. If you have 3+ years of experience, that is all anyone is going to look at except to see the tick mark next to the "graduated university" and "MBA" boxes.

1/29/2011 1:06:00 AM

What are you more likely to regret 10 years from now: not getting the "big name" MBA or burying yourself under over 100k worth of debt?

1/29/2011 1:51:07 AM

I guess a question for Geppetto is where do you want to live? What kind of work do you want? What kind of organizations do you want to work with? How comfortable are you with having that much debt? How important is a better/faster professional track to you?

I think if you could talk more about your preferences, it would let people give more tailored responses.

1/29/2011 2:33:56 AM

1. It's Stanford, not "standford."
2. Why would you pay 105k for something that you're being offered for free? It's like you've already failed business. Seriously though, what did you do in undergrad? That's an important part of the picture (in addition to the questions that Supplanter posed).

Quote :

"HUR: If you are a scrub with a BS in Business Administration or Communications I would say yes. If you are an engineering degree I would say doubtful, but it depends on what you want to do. Currently one of my peer engineers does the same shit I do, except chemical engineering and she has her MBA."

I don't understand the value of anecdotes like these--they always come off as bragging or as a defense mechanism. Anyway, it's not about what she's currently doing...it's about what she could be doing. With an MBA, there are most likely more opportunities available to her than you have available to you. And, just because this one person is doing the same thing as you now, it doesn't mean that getting an MBA on top of an Engineering degree is a bad idea.

If you want to argue that an MBA has little to no value to a "non-scrub," that's cool. But try making your case in a way that doesn't involve a single anecdote, comparing some random person to yourself.

[Edited on January 29, 2011 at 4:08 AM. Reason : "My friend is a doctor, but right now, she works at Starbuck's just like me!"]

1/29/2011 4:07:03 AM

Actually getting an mba with an engineering degree is a great way to become an exec and not get stuck being an engineer the rest of your life (which is important to many engineers)

I would say to base the decision on which program better suits you. Duke is more of an international program so if you are looking to make a splash at an international corporation particularly in finance that's the best fit.

Like others have noted if you're more tech based and likely to end up in RDU then save yourself the big bucks and headache of attending duke because an ncsu degree will suit you fine...

1/29/2011 1:13:42 PM

Quote :

"What are you more likely to regret 10 years from now: not getting the "big name" MBA or burying yourself under over 100k worth of debt?"

Quote :

"Why would you pay 105k for something that you're being offered for free? It's like you've already failed business."

To answer both of these questions at once, I would have to say it is the potential. If a Duke MBA would land me a better job with an additional 10k/year when in contrast with an MBA from NCSU (current delta in averages is 15k-20k) then the 100k in debt wouldn't affect my yearly disposable income. Every year after the debt is paid off would that much more in the bank. I've come here get an idea, based on the experiences and thoughts of others, for how likely it is that I will see the necessary difference in salary and available career opportunities. I agree that the answers to supplanter's question would help me achieve that goal.


My background, like much of the wolfweb, is electrical engineering. I graduated from state and have lived in Raleigh ever since. I do plan to stay here, but, as we know, the future is full of uncertainty. The debt isn't a major concern of mine, as long as that debt doesn't push my disposable income below where it is now. Maintaining equal levels of disposable income and gaining a better,faster,more rewarding professional track would make the MBA experience worth it to me. I am not certain if NCSU's MBA program can provide that track. If State were to provide the same track I would go there, but I do not wish to exchange two years of my life-paid for or not-only to find that my opportunities are the same as they were two years ago.

As far as the work that I want...from what I can tell, engineering is a dead-end job and keeps you secluded from learning other parts of the company, ultimately hindering how far you can climb. With my MBA I would like to become more deeply involved with marketing, program management or business strategy. Another part of me would like to do an industry shift and work more with finance/economics and policy. These are two equal desires that I hope to choose from in my MBA experience.

If anyone would like to know any more questions, please just ask.

1/29/2011 2:55:50 PM

Not to hijack the OP too much, but you guys have any correspondence/online MBA programs you would recommend?

1/29/2011 3:00:28 PM

Quote :

"I don't understand the value of anecdotes like these--they always come off as bragging or as a defense mechanism."

I disagree. I think he's merely pointing at that it's much easier to justify the cost of an MBA if you currently have a below average salary vs above average.

1/29/2011 3:25:04 PM

Do you know any Duke MBAs current or former that you could talk to for a better insight? I mean State is awesome (that's why I'm doing grad school here), but TWW as a resource will probably be a little State-centric.

1/29/2011 4:56:30 PM

http://www.economist.com/whichmba/think-twice

1/31/2011 12:07:31 PM

Engineers get MBAs to advance into executive management. And that being the case, it doesnt matter a damn bit where you get the MBA. Prestige only really matters in the financial markets, and even there it's not going to be a differentiator for more than 3-5 years.

Telling us you're an engineer seals the advice from me. Get the free degree from state and move up the corporate ladder. Between Microsoft and google, the number of execs with a high prestige MBA is tiny. The number with a high prestige BS is much much higher

1/31/2011 12:52:07 PM

What if you get a Duke MBA, get the type of job/career track you thought you wanted, and it turns out you hate it? But then you are stuck because you need the money. It would be one thing if you had a very specific career track in mind and you're sure a Duke MBA would be very helpful, but it sounds like you are on the fence about a lot of things. That makes the financial risk not worth it at this point.

If this were free Duke MBA vs free NCSU MBA, I'd say go to Duke. But we are talking about a financial weight around your neck for at least a decade.

1/31/2011 12:54:55 PM

^ & ^^ what you have to say really makes sense. A major driving factor for this decision is that my company promotes only those with graduate degrees those positions that are 2 slots below middle management and above.

^3
From the article...

Quote :

"They would look at the high cost, and note the tables which show that financial rewards are not evenly distributed among MBAs but tilt heavily to those from the very top programmes who tend to go into finance and consulting."

While the article was against MBAs in general, this statement from the article makes it sound like if I do it, that I better do Duke.

1/31/2011 1:14:42 PM

^No it doesn't. It says exactly what I just said. If you are in FINANCE or financial consulting markets, then it may be worth it.

You are an engineer. It's a completely different ball game. In financial and consulting markets, the prestige of degree is a calling card to clients and employers. In your case, it's a checkbox on the requirements list to move from an IC career track into a management career track. It doesn't matter, they just want to know you have the fundamentals.

1/31/2011 1:31:09 PM

I understand your confusion. Above I noted that I am interested in an industry shift into finance/economics and policy. That is why I quoted the above.

1/31/2011 2:01:27 PM

Ahhh gotcha. Yeah you have a really tough decision then

1/31/2011 5:56:57 PM

Ok well I didn't get the sense that you were crossing industries into finance/investment/economics. I have been working on and off in the industry for 7 years. I used to work for a former director of the UNC endowment who has a Harvard MBA.

So what exactly are you trying to do? In that industry you are basically one of three things:

1) sales/business development -- your biggest role is bringing in assets for management or individual sales and deals. in that case money talks. you can have all the credentials in the world but it comes down to having a client base and a history of successful deals. An MBA is more likely to be a "check box" deal here. They may only hire MBA's for a specific job but the MBA doesn't really mean shit.

2) generating returns -- you're a fund manager, you do research, or are in some way part of putting up "the numbers." This side of the industry is full of brand whores and having a Duke MBA may have the greatest advantage here.

3) overhead -- this is a catch-all. You may be doing HR, operational, or just general back office stuff. You may do IT or compliance and legal support. You may be doing day-to-day accounting stuff. You may be putting together presentations, sometimes calling clients, opening accounts, ad just general doing secretarial work. Unless you are doing specialized legal work this side of the industry is much less focused on your degree(s) and more on software skills and years of experience.

2/1/2011 1:16:43 AM

if you are looking for some kind of "policy" or think-tank type of job then you need a reputable Ph D or personal connections more than a big-name MBA. There are also professional designations like the Chartered Financial Analyst. The CFA has some similarities to a weekend/executive MBA. It's not easy to get and it is valued in certain institutional circles.

[Edited on February 1, 2011 at 1:21 AM. Reason : .]

2/1/2011 1:18:27 AM

I have no idea how MBA qualification works.

Can't you just take the free MBA from state and if you don't find the job you want, go to Duke to get another or something similar? PhD + MBA?

No work after graduating from NCSU: -2 years of your current payrate
Work after graduating from NCSU: -2 years of your current payrate + your new payrate
No work after graduating from Duke: -2 years of your current payrate -$105k
Work after graduating from Duke: -2 years of your current payrate -$105k + new payrate
No work after NCSU go to Duke after: -4 years of current payrate -$105k + new payrate
No work after NCSU or Duke: Fucked.

Maybe take the free ride from NCSU, if that doesn't pan out get a PhD from Duke?

[Edited on February 1, 2011 at 11:56 PM. Reason : f]

2/1/2011 11:52:35 PM

being a future business major, i would expect a careful present-worth analysis

2/2/2011 12:02:44 AM

I am now leaning towards Duke, but may apply to UNC for a "middle of the road" approach.

It boils down to the following:

1) Duke is 105k more than NCSU and UNC 72K more. At 10k more in salary a year, I am at a comparative neutral income to that I would receive post-NCSU. Additionally, I can have the debt paid off in < 10years and anything after that is a larger return on my investment.

2) NC State is a great school, but I believe the case study experience I would have at NC State will be less than that I would have at the other two schools. My thoughts are that a data entry specialist who scored a 550 on the GMAT and had a low undergrad GPA will likely offer less stimulating points of view and theories than those who have been more successful academically and professionally. The knowledge you gain from those experiences is a large part of the value from the MBA.

3) The network. A quick linked-in search for those who graduated with NC State MBAs and those who graduated from UNC and Duke showed a huge discrepancy in the types of positions held. I am not establishing the schools as the casual factor in this discrepancy- it is quite possible that harder workers typically attend harder schools and those students would be successful with any degree-, but, regardless, the network of peers I would have from the Duke or UNC experience has a greater potential worth than that of the NC State MBA program.

I am open to anyone's thoughts or view on either, or all, of these three points.

2/2/2011 11:03:05 AM

Just go to Duke.

There's no conceivable way that you'll make less than a 10k increase on what you're making now, over the next 10 years.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 11:57 AM. Reason : f]

2/2/2011 11:55:38 AM

Quote :

"My thoughts are that a data entry specialist who scored a 550 on the GMAT and had a low undergrad GPA will likely offer less stimulating points of view and theories"

I'm curious as to why you believe that's a foregone conclusion.

Quote :

" than those who have been more successful academically and professionally."

How do you conclude that one has less professional success based on GMAT and undergrad GPA ?


---

I agree on the networking part. Honestly, the only _major_ difference between the prestigious programs and the NCSU MBAs of the world is the network. Beyond that, what you learn is no different. You're basically getting access to a more powerful alumni network, which leads to higher profile/paying jobs.

[Edited on February 2, 2011 at 12:11 PM. Reason : .]

2/2/2011 12:05:47 PM