http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/03/3295215/china-eyes-state-rail-plan.html

1/6/2011 5:15:17 PM

what a horrible idea that would be

1/7/2011 1:46:26 PM

it seems i have lost the ability to make relevant threads in TSB

1/16/2011 12:31:13 PM

I'd rather have foreigners make it. We are complete dumbasses at making trains

1/16/2011 12:47:09 PM

We should have the chinese build it, lend the money to pay for it, and then we stop making payments. While trains are a horrible investment financially, they are nice to look at. And like all art, it looks even better when someone else pays for it.

1/16/2011 2:33:16 PM

high speed rail doesn't make any sense in either China or California. Let them make bad investments. We don't need to copy them.

1/16/2011 3:10:21 PM

great. more taxpayer money to be wasted.

1/16/2011 3:58:24 PM

So why can't the US develop its own high-speed rail technology/systems? It is a lot simpler than going to the moon or to Mars, which the US has done.

1/17/2011 2:01:38 PM

From what I gather, we face a two-prong problem. One is that there is no domestic company with sufficient technology to build high speed rail systems. While we have a base in companies like GE and Caterpillar that build train engines, with the lack of any real high speed rail projects in over half a century, our domestic technology base is too far behind to meet the projects being tossed around today. Speaking of which, if there is not sufficient interest or guarantee of a high speed rail market domestically, there isn't any real incentive for domestic train manufacturers to sink the R&D and manufacturing capital required to catch up. Developing new train engines isn't going to be cheap, and unless there are concrete actions from state and Federal governments that show they're serious about domestic high speed rail, companies are going to be hesitant to financially betting their companies on whether a market ever materializes. If it's anything like aircraft, we're talking in the order of hundreds of millions, if not billions, for a full scale development program.

I've read that some of the domestic manufacturers are trying to establish partnerships with foreign companies, but we'll see how that goes.

1/17/2011 4:27:26 PM

I should note that it's hard for the government to coordinate the start of this sort of industry from scratch or this far behind. Consumer products are one thing, but this sort of heavy industrial manufacturing requires a level of capital and engineering base very few companies have at their disposal. You either have to near guarantee a large enough market to convince those few players to possibly gamble their entire company on this kind of venture or the government has to step in and develop it themselves similar to a space or military development program.

1/17/2011 4:34:39 PM

Two points.

First, what do we care where the trains are built? Is Canada worse off because all their Boeing and Airbus planes were built elsewhere? If high-speed rail makes logical sense in California, then it makes sense regardless of who builds the trains. The only reason anyone is bringing up who is building the trains is because passenger rail in this country has nothing to do with logical sense and everything to do with political pet projects for monuments to civic virtue and heaping largess on political friends.

Second, the issue is not starting this sort of industry. This industry only ever survives through massive government subsidies. And no one wants to be in a business where massive up front investments are required and the only way to avoid bankruptcy is at the whim of legislators, which are just one election away from changing parties and scrapping the massive subsidies.

1/17/2011 5:14:27 PM

Quote :

"If it's anything like aircraft, we're talking in the order of hundreds of millions, if not billions, for a full scale development program."

Now that I think about your post, you are right, it will cost too much, and there isn't a guarantee there will be a market. And relying on the government would be too risky.

BTW, yes, it WILL cost several billions, in fact. Hundreds of millions is nothing. These days, when a big car company comes out with a new passenger car (even a cheap one for middle class), there is usually a billion or 2 dollars of R&D behind it.

1/17/2011 10:17:53 PM

Will high-speed rail worsen traffic in China?
http://chovanec.wordpress.com/2011/01/14/chinas-high-speed-rail-dilemma/

1/31/2011 12:57:38 PM

"My DJ name is 'DJ Oriental Immigrant' because I lay down mad tracks." - Bobby Bottleservice

1/31/2011 2:03:33 PM

Quote :

"From what I gather, we face a two-prong problem. One is that there is no domestic company with sufficient technology to build high speed rail systems"

I happen to work for US company that builds high speed rail systems overseas where there is demand for them, so there are US companies with high-speed rail construction experience.

You are correct in a sense that it is usually done in consortium with other companies, and that many of the sub-systems have to come from non-US suppliers (if that's what you mean by "having sufficient technology"), but that is the case for just about any megaproject in many different industries.

1/31/2011 3:04:32 PM

I was thinking more about the actual trains and the logistics and supply chain necessary to support them. In this category, it appears we're still very far behind compared to our European and Asian peers (Acela was designed and produced by a joint Canadian-French venture). I think that's what bugs me the most: it's one thing to pick up some electronic components and whatnot from overseas, but it seems that the prime design and integration is also going to have to go to a foreign conglomerate because of our lack of experience with the technology. Please correct me if I'm wrong with this assumption.

Still, it's good to know that laying the rail itself is something we're able to do domestically. I wouldn't have doubted it given that we already maintain one of the largest and most complex rail systems in the world.

2/1/2011 2:32:19 PM