Allright kids, can I just give you a few little pointers here? After 3 careerfairs and no NCSU hires, I'd like to have a more successful recruiting trip.

1) I don't care what your GPA is. (Mine was less than 3). You have a 4.0?, whatever. Do you know how to communicate? What I do care is how you present yourself, and if you can carry a conversation. Talk to me, not at me. What do you like about your major? What do you want to do after graduation?

2) Use something more than Notepad to write your resume. Also, it helps to use heavy or high quality paper.

3) What type of real-world experience do you have? How do you handle issues at work (like, deadlines or goals, not interpersonal issues).

Good luck kids.

Thanks,

Joshua

P.S. No, we're not hiring interns/co-ops. No, we're not hiring foreign nationals.

10/2/2010 5:01:46 PM

general career fair, engineering, or something else?

10/2/2010 5:18:37 PM

Mind listing who you work for? If this is the Engineering Career fair and if you're hiring ME's, I will probably come and talk to you.

10/2/2010 5:38:56 PM

Engineering career fail ... October 5 & 6, 2010 Time: 9:30 AM - 4:00 PM ... The McKimmon Center
1101 Gorman Street

http://students.engr.ncsu.edu/careerfair/

10/2/2010 5:57:30 PM

Quote :

"Mind listing who you work for? If this is the Engineering Career fair and if you're hiring ME's, I will probably come and talk to you."

I suppose I can. I work for Babcock & Wilcox in Lynchburg, VA. We will be at the Engineering Career Fair on Tuesday only. We're looking for ME's, MSE's, and maybe NE's. I myself was an AE, and my wife (who also works at B&W) was a CHE/PPS.

[Edited on October 2, 2010 at 6:06 PM. Reason : .]

10/2/2010 6:06:02 PM

Thank you. I will probably be stopping by sometime at your company's booth.

10/2/2010 6:47:53 PM

Quote :

"it helps to use heavy or high quality paper"

i hear that advice often, but really, what influence does using expensive paper have on a person's ability to excel and pursue their ambitions

10/2/2010 6:49:42 PM

^
also, why would an engineer, of all people, waste time and money on buying "pretty" paper

10/2/2010 6:55:45 PM

It would make your resume stand out. Also, it would probably fax/copy easier.

10/2/2010 7:18:37 PM

but why do hiring managers care if you trick them into noticing the physical weight of the paper.

"this guy totally made me stop for half a second to realize the paper was heavier. clever guy. let's hire him"

10/2/2010 8:04:01 PM

Cheap printer paper is just not-quite-professional, and after a day of collecting resumes, it gives off a "I wrote this and printed it out right before I came" vibe.

It is the same reason why everyone dresses up. If you come to the career fair in shorts, you're not getting hired.

10/2/2010 8:10:04 PM

Quote :

" it gives off a "I wrote this and printed it out right before I came" vibe. "

I don't know why anyone would assume this. Recruiting is such a fucking charade.

10/2/2010 8:41:34 PM

Quote :

""this guy totally made me stop for half a second to realize the paper was heavier. clever guy. let's hire him""

whatever it takes to make the initial cut from the pile

10/2/2010 8:52:59 PM

what if i used this cover letter (of course revised to suit the position at hand)?

Quote :

"TO JACK SCOTT, VANCOUVER SUN October 1, 1958 57 Perry Street New York City Sir, I got a hell of a kick reading the piece Time magazine did this week on The Sun. In addition to wishing you the best of luck, I'd also like to offer my services. Since I haven't seen a copy of the "new" Sun yet, I'll have to make this a tentative offer. I stepped into a dung-hole the last time I took a job with a paper I didn't know anything about (see enclosed clippings) and I'm not quite ready to go charging up another blind alley. By the time you get this letter, I'll have gotten hold of some of the recent issues of The Sun. Unless it looks totally worthless, I'll let my offer stand. And don't think that my arrogance is unintentional: it's just that I'd rather offend you now than after I started working for you. I didn't make myself clear to the last man I worked for until after I took the job. It was as if the Marquis de Sade had suddenly found himself working for Billy Graham. The man despised me, of course, and I had nothing but contempt for him and everything he stood for. If you asked him, he'd tell you that I'm "not very likable, (that I) hate people, (that I) just want to be left alone, and (that I) feel too superior to mingle with the average person." (That's a direct quote from a memo he sent to the publisher.) Nothing beats having good references. Of course if you asked some of the other people I've worked for, you'd get a different set of answers. If you're interested enough to answer this letter, I'll be glad to furnish you with a list of references -- including the lad I work for now. The enclosed clippings should give you a rough idea of who I am. It's a year old, however, and I've changed a bit since it was written. I've taken some writing courses from Columbia in my spare time, learned a hell of a lot about the newspaper business, and developed a healthy contempt for journalism as a profession. As far as I'm concerned, it's a damned shame that a field as potentially dynamic and vital as journalism should be overrun with dullards, bums, and hacks, hag-ridden with myopia, apathy, and complacence, and generally stuck in a bog of stagnant mediocrity. If this is what you're trying to get The Sun away from, then I think I'd like to work for you. Most of my experience has been in sports writing, but I can write everything from warmongering propaganda to learned book reviews. I can work 25 hours a day if necessary, live on any reasonable salary, and don't give a black damn for job security, office politics, or adverse public relations. I would rather be on the dole than work for a paper I was ashamed of. It's a long way from here to British Columbia, but I think I'd enjoy the trip. If you think you can use me, drop me a line. If not, good luck anyway. Sincerely, Hunter S. Thompson"

10/2/2010 9:02:55 PM

i have always used heavier paper for resumes just because that is how i was taught. it was one of those weird etiquette things. its not "pretty" paper, it is just heavier, professional (like things companies print their letterhead on) paper.

i dunno, that is just what i've always heard to do/done.

10/2/2010 9:24:34 PM

Quote :

"I suppose I can. I work for Babcock & Wilcox in Lynchburg, VA."

I grew up in lynchburg virginia

FUCK THAT PLACE

seriously. you don't want to live there. unless you absolutely have no choice.

/twocents

10/2/2010 9:37:53 PM

^ It's not that bad. It's conservative cause it was built by Jerry Falwell, but it has good scenery and Roanoke is close by. Don't let the town turn you off if you find a good opportunity at B & W.

10/2/2010 9:46:08 PM

Why do I give two shits about you unless you're hiring CE's?

10/2/2010 10:40:42 PM

Quote :

"Engineering career fail ... October 5 & 6, 2010 Time: 9:30 AM - 4:00 PM ... The McKimmon Center 1101 Gorman Street http://students.engr.ncsu.edu/careerfair/"

my wife will be there interviewing kids

10/2/2010 11:15:53 PM

I'll be there both days with the company I work for. Come spot me, and mention TWW...

And regarding the heavier weight paper, it has worked for me in the past - kind of. One of the English classes I took required us to print our resume and share copies of it with the class. I printed 20 copies on nice heavy, ultra smooth paper. My resume was picked by several classmates as being a good one (and it really was), but they noted it for the nice paper.

10/3/2010 12:07:42 AM

^ What company?

I'm sorry if I'm prying into people's personal lives. If you don't want to put it publicly, can you please PM me?

10/3/2010 2:22:32 AM

Do you need to be in the COM to go to their career fair?

10/3/2010 11:09:02 AM

Heavy paper isn't a bad suggestion, and I agree it's totally retarded. For the most part the larger companies will tell you to apply online and hand you a sort of mini-info pamphlet with a special code in it (like Kimley Horn) that you enter in when applying for a job. Smaller companies may keep your resume, and even some larger ones so the paper is an acceptable expense (I mean it's like $12 and it will last you for the rest of your job search, which will net you a job paying anywhere from $35k-70k/yr depending on your major, so put it into perspective). You usually want to keep that resume to a page long unless you have a variety of co-op experience/internships and/or you have master's/PhD research that makes up your CV and is relevant to the position you're applying for.

I also pretty much agree on the GPA, I would just make sure that it's mentioned on your resume and not just make "I have a 3.7!" one of the first things you say to a recruiter.

If you don't have a halfway decent matching suit/shirt/tie go pick one up from one of the major department stores (not one of those buy one get one suit stores, you can get a decent name brand suit from a store that's on sale that won't make you look like a chump, plus you can open a store credit card and save another 10% on the suit for good measure). Go conservative and make sure that you have a decent belt and shoes to go with it. Get a darker colored tie. Patterns aren't a bad thing if they are subtle and don't have any clashing colors. Stick with a white/blue shirt or some striped variant of the two (if in doubt ask the sales rep for assistance with finding a good shirt and tie to go with the suit). Make sure to get measured at the store so you get a suit that fits you and doesn't make you look like a chump.

Don't wear 3 gallons of cologne/perfume.

If you see a recruiter looking for somebody to talk to, walk up and introduce yourself and ask them what you want to know. Do some research on the main companies you want to target before you go in so you can at least target your conversation to the type of work they do and what your interests are. Make sure there's something like dialogue going on between you two and that you aren't just sitting there mum or completely drowning out the recruiter with a bunch of inane crap that nobody cares about. Be pleasant and be relaxed (don't be a nervous sweating mess, just roll with the questions and give honest answers).

If you really need a job you should make sure to hit up any federal government recruiting booths from the NSA/CIA/NAVSEA organizations because the federal government is currently in the process of hiring thousands and thousands of people to replace their retiring baby boomers. It will be an easy interview (depending on the organization, but the government is mostly interested in people with a pulse and an education), they will very likely pay relocation and often times a signing bonus, and your job security is practically guaranteed unless you fuck up on the job and commit a major security/safety violation. If you're a foreign national disregard any consideration of working for the federal government because they only hire US citizens. Make sure to hit up any of these booths, including the shipyard booth (norfolk naval shipyard should be there). It will put you on a career path which can do a lot of things for you, and if you want to you can always walk away and go somewhere else. They will gladly rehire you as long as you didn't burn any bridges when you left, so it's not a bad place to start your career. It will probably take 3 months to get an offer back from any federal employers, just because of how bogged down the system is with red tape (if you can put up with that you will be very successful).

My company will be there looking for potential co-op/intern candidates, I think, but no permanent hires right now. I imagine the hiring environment is still going to be pretty bad at this career fair so just go in and hope for the best.

Oh yeah, make sure to take pictures of the lines of hundreds of foreign nationals who are waiting in line to ask if a company will sponsor VISAs. I think the major tech companies had lines four or five people deep that went halfway across the room when I went there last year.

One more thing, I ended up getting a job offer (that I didn't accept, but that's not the point) from a company that was going to the career fair simply by getting in touch with them before the show because I saw they were attending. I sent them my resume and sent them a sort of short cover letter and asked if they were hiring certain types of candidates. I got a reply back and it led to a few interviews and a job offer, though I didn't realize that field paid as little as it did and ended up going with an offer from the US Navy instead. Just put yourself out there and see what they say. The worst that can happen is they will tell you they aren't interested.

10/3/2010 2:48:08 PM

I had an interview with NAVSEA and was told that I was put into their system as 'recommended for employment' and never heard anything about a job offer ever since.

For new grads these days I've asked around and they really only hire people who are highly specialized for a position, or if you meet 'qualifying conditions'. So if you're a minority, female, disabled, a veteran, military spouse, or have invented something the government is interested in implementing, then go for it. Otherwise, I wouldn't put anything of substance to what those recruiters say. You don't interview for a position. You interview to be put into their database, so that when a position opens up your resume gets to fight for itself so as to get a call back.

Trust me, I've asked around a LOT.

[Edited on October 3, 2010 at 3:41 PM. Reason : but it doesn't hurt to try go for it, just don't bet on them]

10/3/2010 3:37:25 PM

my company will be at the career fair looking to fill 1 full time position as well as looking for people for when the need arises and interns and co-ops for next year.

10/3/2010 4:39:08 PM

I just want to issue a big hahahaha to anyone who can't get a job right now that voted for a democrat in '08 because it was the "hip" thing to do.

If you didnt vote for a liberal and cant get a job after busting your ass to get an engineering degree then I do sympathize. Get ready to fight for your life out there.

10/3/2010 5:49:56 PM

^ What was the point of this post?

10/3/2010 6:13:32 PM

^ To point out how stupid rallydurham really is.

[Edited on October 3, 2010 at 6:55 PM. Reason : ]

10/3/2010 6:54:45 PM

Quote :

"I had an interview with NAVSEA and was told that I was put into their system as 'recommended for employment' and never heard anything about a job offer ever since."

Was this with NNSY or elsewhere? I know the shipyard is crazy eager to take anybody with a pulse because their program has a fairly bad attrition rate with all the new employees. It's also best to note that being put into the database probably won't get you considered for any further positions unless you're already a federal employee. There's enough people actually applying for the job postings on USAjobs that all the people who are in the database as potential candidates will likely never hear anything back.

Also, in general if a candidate's GPA is under 3.0 and they are not a minority/disabled candidate the government will not seriously consider you for employment for a more scientific/engineering oriented position, just generally speaking. They explicitly seek people who have high grades or who fall into a minority/disabled class. In my incoming class the only people who game in as GS-5's fell into that group (if your GPA was over 3.0 it was an automatic GS7 promotion).

As for myself, I did specifically interview for a position with Norfolk Naval Shipyard in the nuclear engineering program, and they checked a few boxes on the sheet they have to indicate what programs you are applying for inside the shipyard and then run you through with all the other applications to determine who they want to hire. I have put my resume into the database for the army and navy (along with a couple other random things on USAjobs) and never heard back from any. The best way to get a job is to get a connection in the federal government who can put you directly in contact with a supervisor (GS-13 in many organizations) in the department that is recruiting, because that person can actively interview you and run the paperwork to pull you in for a position. If you are a moderately desirable candidate, it's good to apply to any acquisition positions listed on USAjobs as those are where they pull in candidates for manpower shortage positions. Those positions are often eligible for a signing bonus and paid relocation.

10/3/2010 8:10:51 PM

I have worked for the feds for about 6 years. Rumor is that there will be a hiring freeze coming up after the elections and the new Congress begins......well, probably not for every Agency but that is the rumor going around.....instead of hiring perms they will hire more contractors.

10/3/2010 8:14:08 PM

^^ just reading that made me want to throw up.

You realize how pathetic this country has become that undergrads have to compete for whatever scraps the government throws their way.

We are the new Europe.

10/3/2010 9:47:25 PM

Quote :

"To point out how stupid rallydurham really is"

10/3/2010 9:58:21 PM

Im definitely one of the more intelligent people on these boards and certainly one of the most logical.

There are certainly several smarter people on here but definitely not enough to put me in the dumb category.

Also, I have a great habit about only conversing about topics I know a shitload about so I very seldom put myself in position of knowing less than the person I'm arguing with. That's really my secret for being right. I avoid putting myself in bad spots against more well versed posters.

10/3/2010 10:28:19 PM

lol

10/3/2010 10:33:46 PM

Quote :

"Im definitely one of the more intelligent people on these boards and certainly one of the most logical."

You're fucking delusional.

10/3/2010 10:34:32 PM

Every standardized test I've ever taken says otherwise.

Except the acturial exam because I didn't study and I was drunk during the test.

10/3/2010 10:39:49 PM

Stop trolling this thread you dipshit. No one gives a fuck how retarded you are.

10/3/2010 10:52:40 PM

due to conflicts I cannot get out of, I will not be at the Cisco booth this time around, I generally enjoy the career fairs (and have three positions to fill on my team alone).

10/3/2010 11:19:10 PM

I'll be there recruiting, I got my first job at the 08 spring career fair

10/4/2010 7:57:59 AM

I will be there working Fluor's booth.

10/4/2010 8:00:35 AM

I wish I could be there to recruit but NCSU is mostly Langley's territory

10/4/2010 9:11:38 AM

Quote :

"Was this with NNSY or elsewhere? "

This was at Dahlgren. I do agree with the rest of your post, but although I was over 3.0 GPA I never heard from postings to USAJobs. Well, I did hear back for one, but it was because they deemed me unqualified (which was true ). My girlfriend's dad did work at Dahlgren, but even he admitted that they will always take people with qualifying criteria over someone who might be more qualified for the job. I also was connected to my mom's friend who works with engineers in the eastern-NC military bases, and while they loved my resume they were required to pull an application from a cert before they could do anything. I applied to CHE acquisition jobs but got nowhere. I basically discovered USAJobs was a waste of time and have decided to go civilian route for now...although several of my relatives were employed through USAJobs.

--

I will not be attending this career fair, partly because I have an internship at a company right now (where interns usually become salary). Over my 5 years of attending Career Fairs I've just learned that there is never anything useful there for me - CHE with a Nanoscience concentration and over 2 years of nanotech related experience. There was only 1 company that was ever interested to talk with and interview me. I didn't get that job, and it turns out it was a horrid company to work for anyway.

10/4/2010 10:56:28 AM

when I went, I had a copy of my resume for each company there. I talked to every single company, even if they weren't looking for someone in my field. Every company got a resume.

Due to that approach, I got a kick ass job for a company and they weren't even advertising that job.

Just sayin.

10/4/2010 11:03:08 AM

Quote :

"I never heard from postings to USAJobs. Well, I did hear back for one, but it was because they deemed me unqualified"

Yeah, that was me four years ago.

Quote :

"the federal government is currently in the process of hiring thousands and thousands of people to replace their retiring baby boomers."

Also something I remember from four years ago.

10/4/2010 11:06:21 AM

1) PROPERLY GROOM. It's incredible that this even has to be listed, but some people don't take a shower, brush their teeth, etc before events like this. You will not only fail to impress recruiters if they can smell last night's wild party on your person, but you will also guarantee that they actively ignore you. And putting on one of daddy's business suits won't sell the message of professionalism if your hair is still spiked up DBZ style. Comb that shit. And while your at it, shave any parts of your face where you aren't actively trying to grow facial hair and trim down the parts where you are. Finally, splashing a sprinkle of cologne/aftershave on your face won't hurt, but no more than that. I understand that you want to mask how bad your BO smells because your fat greasy ass is too lazy to spend at least 5 minutes in a shower (which, by the way, you should definitely do), but going to the opposite extreme won't net you any brownie points, either.

2) Be prepared to sell yourself. As another stereotypical introverted nerd with social skills approaching that of somebody with Asperger's, I know all too well how tempting it is to let your resume do the talking for you. Unfortunately, you can't fully convince companies to give you a chance by writing stuff down on only one sheet of paper. If a recruiter asks you to tell them about yourself or summarize yourself, don't give your life's story. Tell them about any experiences or qualities that you have that will be relevant to that company. And on that same note, I hope you have communication skills that are functional enough to allow you to work with others. Again, I know all too well the temptation to think that technical ability is all that matters, but being unable to express your ideas in an intelligent, coherent manner will not instill much confidence in recruiters. And if you are utterly incapable of getting along with other people, you are guaranteeing that you are untouchable in the job market. Please, for the love of His Noodley Appendage, communicate like a normal human being. At a bare minimum, don't throw your resume in somebody's face and expect it to lead to any offers.

3) The conventional wisdom is that if they tell you to apply online, that's code for "we're not interested." However, this is not necessarily always the case anymore. Times have changed, and some places genuinely require you to apply at their website as part of their recruitment process. If they don't take a hard copy of your resume or if you see them ball it up and throw it away, that's probably a sign. But beyond that, don't get discouraged.

4) To add to 3, don't be so quick to give up. It's a tough market, and you're likely competing against people with way more experience than you who will work for a lot less than you. It's too hard to keep trying and applying every day because the constant rejection wears down on you, but you must keep trying. If you never apply to a company, you'll definitely never get hired by them. You'll never know what could have been until you at least send an application in. To that end, don't be afraid of approaching as many booths as you can. The worst that happens is that they flat out tell you "no." Either that, or give you an interview that went alright, then string you on for a couple of weeks and then never call you back. Fucking assholes.

5) Be prepared to bring something to the table. Have some relevant interests/experiences when going to a booth. In other words, don't try out for a commission-based sales position if you have absolutely zero interest in sales. You'll just be wasting everybody's time, including your own, and you'll come off as looking like either a desperate douche or a douche that has no idea what to do with the rest of his life. Have no experience? Look for available internships and co-ops if you're still going to be in school for another year or more. But if you're on the verge of graduating, sucks to be you; you should have been looking for internships while you had the chance (I learned this the hard way after my first degree). If you can net some kind of entry-level position, you'll be lucky. Otherwise pick up an application to McDonalds on your way home to your parents' house.

[Edited on October 4, 2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason : blah]

10/4/2010 11:08:17 AM

Quote :

"when I went, I had a copy of my resume for each company there. I talked to every single company, even if they weren't looking for someone in my field. Every company got a resume. "

vs

Quote :

" Have some relevant interests/experiences when going to a booth. In other words, don't try out for a commission-based sales position if you have absolutely zero interest in sales. You'll just be wasting everybody's time, including your own, and you'll come off as looking like either a desperate douche or a douche that has no idea what to do with the rest of his life. "

I'm going with the second option

--

Quote :

"Look for available internships and co-ops if you're still going to be in school for another year or more. But if you're on the verge of graduating, sucks to be you; you should have been looking for internships while you had the chance (I learned this the hard way after my first degree). If you can net some kind of entry-level position, you'll be lucky. "

My senior design team members had zero industry experience, but somehow managed to find jobs. One had to go to Conneticut so if you have no experience then you better be very open with your job locations.

[Edited on October 4, 2010 at 11:22 AM. Reason : I, for one, was the longest unemployed]

10/4/2010 11:20:21 AM

The heavy paper thing is pretty legitimate. Last year when I recruited with International Paper, we didn't use this tactic, but I know that Microsoft was going through resumes at an amazing clip across the room from us. You could tell when the woman who was sorting them hit a high quality paper as she stopped read it for a second then put it in a separate stack (one that was far smaller than the others). Did these people get an interview, I'm not sure, but I can tell you that it gets you potentially an extra 5 second look (she was going through them at 2-4 seconds each), and that might be all you need.

The best advice is selling yourself like you're the one they need. I'm a Chemical Engineer, but I work at IBM now in their Technical Sales area for Mainframe Software. Why? Because I was able to convince the hiring manager that a Chemical Engineer is not that far off from a Computer Science major in general terms, it's a technical role and you're always manipulating some input for a desired output. If the job is for a trouble shooting position (i.e. Process Engineering, Facilities Engineering, etc) prove to the recruiter hiring that you know how to fix things, even if it isn't directly related, showing that you know how to solve a problem will get you a long way in their eyes. Also if it's in a manufacturing environment, chances are the people you're working with are not college graduates, where I worked a lot weren't even high school graduates, if you can simplify a complex problem to simply terms, you separated yourself from the pack and that helps in this economy.

I worked at a paper mill after graduating, the material I learned in ChemE, while applicable to the industry, doesn't teach you everything you need to know. If you can show the person who is hiring you an ability to adapt and explain things, that's an easy way to get your foot in the door. In my second stage interview with IBM I had to give a PowerPoint, but the projector didn't work. I was able to adapt to the situation. I knew my presentation in and out and did it on a whiteboard they had in the room. This is IBM's main way of selling things now is using a whiteboard, when they saw I was able to do it without missing a beat, it greatly helped my chances and why I'm there now. Was this the only reason, probably not, but it definitely didn't hurt.

10/4/2010 11:53:14 AM

Quote :

"Look for available internships and co-ops if you're still going to be in school for another year or more."

I actually did an internship after I graduated. Turned into full time two months later.

10/4/2010 1:21:49 PM

except for all the trolling, this thread really is one of the more helpful of the countless career fair threads

A+ will read again, probably before i go to the fair tmrw

10/4/2010 10:14:20 PM

You really need to have done something, anything, sorta kinda related to the job you are applying for...I mean, something....besides working at Starbucks....unless you are a communications major...

10/4/2010 11:33:06 PM