thought i would share this here

Quote :

"This was a piece that we were told to create the week after 9/11 in design school. I had a feeling it was what was gonna happen, and it did. Never forget that we always have a chance to guard justice and liberty, defending it from war and repression. Just a quick rundown of the piece... it was a rushed collage (one day i need to get back to it) of justice defending the promised land from quick and angry action. Both sides are the United States of America. Liberty blindly defends hope and well-being on the wheats of grain from and angry, in the dark Uncle Sam, who is charging towards her, war in one hand, chains of past oppression in the other. Through his frustration, he passes two pillars that are knocked off center and trods through the newspaper clippings of the day. Some criticized me of having Liberty stepping on the flag. But I supported tit, saying that she needed to have one foot on the nation to make sure it was there. She is attempting to defend the country and had to make sure it was still there under her foot, because she was going to use both hands to defend herself, though makeing sue that the balance of justice was even. It was not a message saying to trample our country, but to make sure that it was still there. I think that there was supposed to be an owl on the pedestal to Liberty's right, but the time limit on the piece prevented me from creating Athena's watcher. Probably the largest editorial cartoon I've ever made. Hopefully one day, it will be properly resolved. But I think that for now, it's appropriate that it was never finished. Biggest ups on the world to Charles Joyner, one of the greatest teachers I have ever known. I keep this in my hallway on the wall next to my studio to make sure that I never forget the chance that America has to make sure that our country's experiment is one day fulfilled. Because of right now, we still have a long way to go from what was planned."

9/11/2010 12:40:49 AM

i was editor in chief of technician that day

i went out on the balcony of witherspoon and smoked a cig

i think joe ovies was out there, too

and that was the image that i came up with to run the next day

most people liked it

some thought that the broken tablet was an insult to liberty

but i thought at the time that our borders were in for a change

some thought that i had broken the bill of rights

but that's not what liberty carried (that goes down with the YUK YUKS with the dudes behind me in early american history who thought it was funny that they didn't know the difference between the declaration and the constitution before a test)

most was positive and my toon was picked up in several college papers around the country

the second "illustration" is in the OP of this thread

i refuse to blame it on clinton or bush... it's been so easy since then for anyone to randomly walk into a wal-mart and open fire since then... and it's happened... but not as frequently or in the name of this act as it could

please feel free to share in this thread about 9/11

sure you can be hindsight quarterbacks

but have fun

9/11/2010 12:50:38 AM

when they built that ladder to heaven

nine eleven

9/11/2010 1:04:12 AM

high school english class

completely in awe, i didn't believe it at first

i had seen the towers probably 20 times over the years, driving into NYC to visit family

i was thinking about my uncle who at one point would get off his train at the WTCs

i still have a hard time watching videos of the plane crashing into the towers, because i envision it as a particularly terrifying way to die for all involved

9/11/2010 1:07:41 AM

woke up late,
missed class,
turned on the tv then called the parents
glad my dad didnt ask me what i was doing at the apartment

9/11/2010 1:24:12 AM

we were doing a general quarters drill on my destroyer in port in norfolk. i was the ordnance officer, but my GQ job was officer of the deck on the bridge.

all of a sudden we got the call to stand down from the drill and away the ready alert team. and that the alert part wasn't a drill.

i sprinted down the 5 decks and 300 feet aft from the bridge to the armory and started handing out .50 cal machine guns, rifles, and pistols to my security team.

within 3 or 4 minutes we had weapons topside with live rounds in the chamber. I was at the head of the pier checking our waterline when I finally got word over the radios what was going on.

we were locked down on base for 2 days - nobody in or out. we only left the ship to stand watch on the pier. ships got underway from norfolk within an hour of the 2nd plan strike. some headed up the chesapeake to DC, others went up the atlantic to NYC. my roommate was at a school off base and missed his ships movement - they didn't even wait for people on the base to show up. they just sent whoever had a weapons loadout.

i wanted to go to war, but missed it due to a rotation to shore duty. less than 3 months after I left my ship, I got a photo of it launching one of the first tomahawks of the war. i am still a little pissed I missed being in combat that day and getting the order to fire. i spent the next two years establishing an anti-terrorism group in san diego to provide force protection as a post-911 initiative.

i got out in 2004 without ever seeing combat.

9/11/2010 1:24:52 AM

I remember reasonably well what I was doing that day. I think tdub is probably the only place I've ever written in down though. I went looking for whatever thread it might be to see how well I remember it, but couldn't find it (maybe someone else will). It got me thinking that it would be interesting to compile a list of the threads about this. Hard to find much that isn't salisbuyrboy conspiracy stuff or tying it to broader issues rather than focusing on remembrance/personal reactions. Feel free to add to the list (with non-conspiracy theory thread links):

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=431720

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=540770

9/11/2010 1:50:39 AM

I think an appropriate image to repost here is the one with phrases like "3 NEVAR FORGET" and "99c dollar menu NEVAR FORGET"

9/11/2010 2:42:31 AM

My personal reaction was the wrong one. I know that now.

9/11/2010 2:55:50 AM

anyone got loose change lying around

9/11/2010 3:00:10 AM

9 years later quarterback:

There was a lesson to be learned from this day. A lesson of American foreign policy. Since that day, we have only done things to exponentially increase hatred towards America and destroyed our economy in the process.

There is no doubt that the terrorists have won (or are winning) and not only have we destroyed our economy, but we have destroyed our own belief of freedom in the minds of many of our citizens. Most americans have declared war in islam and turned into the evil people we were accused of being.

9/11/2010 9:32:02 AM

Details of buildings: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11264804

9/11/2010 11:07:44 AM

I was in 9th grade. My initial reaction was, "What's the World Trade Center?" I was between 1st and 2nd period, and I heard people talking about it in the halls. When I got to my second period class, which was ELP (economics, something, and politics), the teacher turned on the T.V. I can remember what he said: this is going to mark a major turning point in U.S. history, and we will most likely go to war over this.

Quote :

"There was a lesson to be learned from this day. A lesson of American foreign policy. Since that day, we have only done things to exponentially increase hatred towards America and destroyed our economy in the process. There is no doubt that the terrorists have won (or are winning) and not only have we destroyed our economy, but we have destroyed our own belief of freedom in the minds of many of our citizens. Most americans have declared war in islam and turned into the evil people we were accused of being."

Pretty much. The Sean Hannitys of the country will say, "Why do you blame America for the attacks?" I don't blame the American people, I blame the American government. To be fair, yes, I blame the foreign policy that a Sean Hannity would support. I hope more people are realizing that there are human consequences for the things our military does around the world.

The government's reaction to 9-11 was to start a war, encourage mindless spending on the part of consumers, and take away liberties. Was it all worth it? Did we avenge the victims of 9-11, or did we sentence future generations to additional terrorist attacks and a reduced standard of living?

9/11/2010 11:50:53 AM

it was my sophomore year at NCSU

I worked early-arrivals at the YMCA, as I was getting off the early shift the first plane crashed into the towers and they were talking about it on the radio. as I walked in the door at home, the second plane crashed.

I remember I had a chemistry test that day I somehow got a B on. I couldnt concentrate on anything.

9/11/2010 11:56:15 AM

^^not to hijack this thread, but that same 'american government' liberated OSB and the Afghans from the brutal occupation of the Soviets.

we are far from perfect, but you are pretty off base. radical Islam and terrorism was coming regardless of our foreign policy. they are zealots. they would find any reason to justify their actions.

9/11/2010 11:59:16 AM

^and then they used the weapons we gave them to fight the soviets against us a decade later. our communist-phobia created these problems, and I am scared to think what our Islamaphobia is creating for the next generation. Just think what this nation would have been like if we had never gone into Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc. I think we would have both towers still standing. History is nothing but a game of dominoes.

I was outside that morning with the high school marching band running drills during first period. When we came back inside, our band director made the announcement that a plane had hit one of the twin towers. At first I assumed this meant a plane had malfunctioned and crashed, but when I got to second period chemistry the TV was on and we found out what really happened. My teacher was a former marine but still on reserve and he started telling us that he would probably be leaving the school to go fight very soon.

9/11/2010 12:51:21 PM

^^ things don't pop out of nowhere. The real world doesn't have infinite respawns or deus ex machinas. We humans create our own problems.

9/11/2010 12:54:49 PM

Quote :

"we are far from perfect, but you are pretty off base. radical Islam and terrorism was coming regardless of our foreign policy. they are zealots. they would find any reason to justify their actions"

this.


I was a sophomore in high school, in ROTC class. We just watched news coverage all day in each class, except one... ELP class...

[Edited on September 11, 2010 at 1:54 PM. Reason : .]

9/11/2010 1:48:27 PM

I was driving to my shit job at TGI Friday's to work the lunch shift and people were freaking out on the radio about something but not saying what it was. When I get to work, everyone is sitting and watching TV and I saw what was up.

Then my manager said "Guys we're still open for business today" so then I went and cut lemons for the maybe 10 ppl that showed up to eat that shift.

9/11/2010 1:50:49 PM

I knew something weird was going on because a couple of students in my 2nd period class were mumbling about it, but I couldn't make out any details and when they tried to tell the class the teacher said, "We're not talking about that right now!" Ultimately the principal got on the intercom and told all of us, a decision for which she was criticized later. That pissed me off. One woman wrote an editorial, "That principal had no right to tell my daughter! She robbed her of her innocence!" So, what, you were going to lock your kid in the cellar for the rest of her life?

When I went home they were selling evening editions of the newspaper, which I've never seen before or since.

I remember these two pictures that for whatever reason really affected me, and I can't find either of them online. One is of a guy who has pulled his car over and is just sitting by the side of the road crying about the news. The other is just of a car near ground zero, covered in dust. And someone had written in that dust, in big block letters, MY TAX DOLLARS BOUGHT NUKES, USE THEM.

9/11/2010 2:37:03 PM

9/11 was an opportunity for America to reflect and grow

Instead it was seized as a political opportunity to control people with fear, anger, and other base emotions. Depending on how things go from here on out, we may look back on it as the beginning of the end. We let a shot to the heel kill us.

9/11/2010 2:44:01 PM

Quote :

"they are zealots. they would find any reason to justify their actions"

That's the line, yeah. I'm not convinced. They didn't pull out a map and pick a random spot on the globe. They picked the United States, and they picked the city that would get the most attention. It wasn't because they hated freedom and democracy (which we're not particularly good stewards of), it's because they hate our influence in the region where they live.

9/11/2010 3:08:19 PM

It was my junior year of high school, during US History

9/11/2010 3:09:48 PM

Quote :

". One woman wrote an editorial, "That principal had no right to tell my daughter! She robbed her of her innocence!" So, what, you were going to lock your kid in the cellar for the rest of her life? "

Wow, the people in your town are idiots. We had the TV on in our classes, with sound off, just before the second plane hit. AFAIK, there was no parental outrage about any of this. Teachers adjusted their lesson plans to talk about it, etc..


^^ IOW, it's as much or more politics, as religion. It's not hard to see though why certain types of thinkers would like to insist that muslim religious extremism is merely a force of nature.

[Edited on September 11, 2010 at 3:12 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 11, 2010 at 3:12 PM. Reason : ]

9/11/2010 3:10:26 PM

Religion has nothing to do with ANY of it.

9/11/2010 3:42:49 PM

^ i disagree. In a very general sense, religion helps people rationalize unsavory opinions more so than mere political ideologies. If a person believe it's "God's will" regardless of if innocent people are dying or not, they will be okay with it.

9/11/2010 4:24:33 PM

^I don't believe for a second that those responsible thought that this was G-d's will.

They probably told the people that they did, but that doesn't mean the REALLY did. Making it a religious thing helped the terrorists by making us afraid of every woman in a hijab.

9/11/2010 4:27:49 PM

Quote :

"There is no doubt that the terrorists have won (or are winning) and not only have we destroyed our economy, but we have destroyed our own belief of freedom in the minds of many of our citizens."

Well, no, it is not possible for the terrorists to win. They were in the trash-bin of history long before we elevated them to their position. Winners don't hijack planes and fly them into buildings. winners have an air-force. Once we realize that, they will fall right back into the trash-bin of history.

9/11/2010 4:35:16 PM

^^ the higher-ups might not have thought that, but i feel comfortable in saying that it's very likely the actual hijackers were using this as a driving factor.

There was a great documentary on TV (maybe HBO or Showtime) where they captured some of the failed suicide bombers and they are definitely religiously brainwashed to extreme levels. You can't underestimate the power of a religious experience, in the context of terrorist training.

[Edited on September 11, 2010 at 4:36 PM. Reason : ]

9/11/2010 4:36:20 PM

religious extremism has a lot to do with most terrorist attacks/organizations

9/11
abortion clinic bombings

one thing in common... religious extremists.

9/11/2010 5:04:31 PM

Quote :

"the higher-ups might not have thought that"

is the main point, and they used religious extremists for good reason

9/11/2010 5:20:46 PM

I found this headline to be somewhat odd:
9/11 anniversary: New York Muslims insist that they are American too
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/12/911-anniversary-new-york-muslims

9/11/2010 9:05:05 PM

Originally posted by me on ACCBoards on the 1 year anniversary:

Quote :

"I had just finished taping my last traffic report here in the studio at work...we have a TV here in the studio and it was turned to ABC...Good Morning America was on but the volume was turned down...The hosts of GMA were joking around and having a good time when all of the sudden the 1st pictures were broadcast live just seconds after the first plane hit....no one knew yet what had happened...my first thought was "Damn, that is one heck of a fire in that building"...I called everyone else into my part of the studio and we watched in horror as the second plane hit...we were speechless...I stayed around a little longer at work and watched the images unfold on tv...I then left work and headed towards the police department in the town I live in just south of Raleigh...my roommate and several of my friends are police officers and I wanted to see how they were doing...Me, my roommate and a couple other cops sat in the police department in a daze just trying to sort everything out...no calls came over the local police radio for a few hours as everyone was somewhere watching tv."

9/11/2010 9:36:12 PM

I was a senior at NCSU. I was asleep in bed that morning, and TKE-Teg walked into my room and said something like "Dude! Someone just crashed an airplane into the WTC!" I was half-asleep and thought he meant a Cessna or something...I was like "Uh, that sucks." A few minutes later I got up and turned on the TV and saw what was going on. I remember going to class, everyone in the brickyard was on a cell phone. People would get up and leave class to take phone calls, I guess to get word on friends or family living in NYC or DC.

Quote :

"I don't blame the American people, I blame the American government."

Fuck that. 9/11 wasn't the fault of the American people or government. 9/11 was the fault of a bunch of twisted dicklickers.

It wasn't about them "hating our freedom" (though they certainly don't care for it), or whatever.

It was because:

1. OBL thought his Saudi government/society wasn't extreme enough, and he was pissed that they had harbored American troops for DESERT STORM (because of the land's "holy" status. He became a thorn in the side of his country to the point that they exiled him. He then ended up in Sudan. After terrorist violence against American diplomats caused deterioration of U.S./Sudan relations, they exiled him, too (after offering to turn him over to the Saudis, who wanted nothing to do with him)...at that point he had to go live in about the only place that would take him, which was shithole Afghanistan. His status as an off-the-deep-end Wahhabi who also happened to be liberal with his shitpiles of money gave him an "in" with the infant Taliban, who were struggling for both extreme Islamic piety and aid in their pursuit of national power (against groups which would later form the Northern Alliance). Shit, even the Taliban offered to hand him over to Saudi Arabia, but the Saudis didn't want him back.

In that regard, I think that he was personally pissed that he was reaping the results of his fuckhead lifestyle, partially due to American power and influence. His insanely back-asswards religious views played their part, too.

2. Again, he was really pissed that American troops had set foot on holy Saudi soil (he was pissed at the Saudis about this for extending the invitation, too, but there was more to gain by attacking America).

3 One of OBL's goals was/is to galvanize the Islamic world into a powerful, united, empire. The way to do it was to have the West wage war on the Islamic world, at least in their perceptions. If you want to drag the West into a war of those proportions, you need to get America in on it, simply because we're the ones with the power and influence to make it happen. After a slew of lesser attacks produced only yawns and a few small-scale strikes akin to swatting at an annoying insect, he launched an attack that he knew would absolutely require a significant response on our part (and his country of residence, where the attacks were launched from, that he knew would be targeted, already had the benefit of possessing a well-engineered holy war machine that drew from across the Islamic world). At the end of the day, he's a crazy extreme-Islamist dipshit, but he's also a political actor, making power plays just like a state entity (except minus the restrictions that come with defined structure and borders).

Quote :

"They didn't pull out a map and pick a random spot on the globe. They picked the United States, and they picked the city that would get the most attention. It wasn't because they hated freedom and democracy (which we're not particularly good stewards of), it's because they hate our influence in the region where they live. "

Yeah, there's some of that at work, but remember, they were extremists even by the standards of their respective countries. It's not like they were striking a blow for the oppressed masses. Furthermore, while they do hate our influence, it was (as outlined above) because they needed a target with that sort of influence. These motherfuckers wanted to start a major fight. Blowing something up in Wales would not have cut it.

Quote :

"Ultimately the principal got on the intercom and told all of us, a decision for which she was criticized later. That pissed me off. One woman wrote an editorial, "That principal had no right to tell my daughter! She robbed her of her innocence!" "

What a dumb bitch.

[Edited on September 11, 2010 at 10:17 PM. Reason : We've made our foreign policy mistakes, but Al Qaeda is to blame for this one.]

remember also that we had been relatively minding our own business for about a decade. In fact, you may recall that we had fairly recently fought a largely humanitarian war in support of Muslims who were being killed by Christians. The W. Bush foreign policy model was not in place prior to this attack, and certainly not prior to all the smaller ones before, and cannot be blamed.

OBL was part butthurt little bitch and part uber-religious megalomaniac, and he had enough money and influence that his temper tantrums and power grabs had grave human and geopolitical consequences.

[Edited on September 11, 2010 at 10:24 PM. Reason : if anything, blame him for our foreign policy mistakes moreso than the other way around]

9/11/2010 10:10:33 PM

I was naively stunned at the time how someone could hate us that much to go through that much effort to kill so many people. I had heard of Mohammed Atta, but I couldn't remember where. I had never heard of Osama bin Laden or Al Queda.

I felt so bad for those victims. Working stiffs just like me ..going through their day and then Wham.
One moment you're deciding where to go for lunch, and the next you're standing on the ledge outside your window deciding whether to burn up or jump to your death.

9/11/2010 10:41:31 PM

9/11/2010 10:41:42 PM

^take that shit to chit chat. things like that really piss me off. my uncle is a NYC fire fighter and he lost dear friends that day.

9/11/2010 11:16:26 PM

Quote :

"I had heard of Mohammed Atta, but I couldn't remember where. I had never heard of Osama bin Laden or Al Queda."

Uh...what? Nobody had heard of Mohammed Atta before 9/11. He was moving freely about the country. He was just some guy.

I think you may be getting confused.

9/12/2010 8:56:39 PM

We deserved it then. We deserve much worse today.

9/12/2010 9:45:20 PM

^that is also a horrible thing to say. maybe our leaders have been horrible and done horrible things to other countries, but the individual people who suffered on that day did not deserve any of it. Fuck you.

9/12/2010 10:46:24 PM

Citizens are entirely responsible for their leaders. If those leaders perpetuate death and destruction in the name of the country, it is the duty of good citizens to remove them by elections or assassination. To ignore this duty is cowardly and deserves the harshest of punishments.

9/12/2010 11:12:27 PM

Wow duke, our military not only has the most advanced weaponry, it has some damn good brainwashing as well.

9/13/2010 12:17:00 AM

I don't know about that, I think his assessment of OBL's goals to be some kind of Chuck Manson-esque scheme was both interesting and accurate.

9/13/2010 12:20:11 AM

I was a Jr in high school. We were going from 1st to 2nd period when they announced it on the intercom. We watched the towers fall during Military History (2nd period). We couldn't get hold of family up there for a couple days (I was born up there, mom's family lives in NYC). Some worked in a building or 2 nearby and saw the planes hit the towers. Two of them used to work there, and I made a visit or 2 to the South Tower when we would take a trip to New York. They weren't at the time, but still had to evacuate when this happened. They took pictures of themselves, covered in the dust from head to toe.

We have a family friend in the FDNY that was being treated for smoke inhalation from a fire the night before, and was in the hospital that morning. They cleared him to leave around 10 AM. He went to the firehouse to get his gear. As he was getting his stuff, he watched the 2nd tower collapse. He ended up being one of the first to lead in the recovery efforts, and had to dig many out of the rubble, including some firefighters (a few from his company).

9/13/2010 2:32:58 AM

Quote :

"Citizens are entirely responsible for their leaders. If those leaders perpetuate death and destruction in the name of the country, it is the duty of good citizens to remove them by elections or assassination. To ignore this duty is cowardly and deserves the harshest of punishments."

so the children who were mercilessly killed that day deserved it too then apparently. i see.

your advocating of innocent civilians to be murdered is absolutely repulsive. simply because they are morons for not voting out the leaders who deserve it does not warrant the "harshest of punishments" according to your disgusting logic. how can you ever advocate innocent people being killed? regardless of religion or nationality.

9/13/2010 9:43:04 AM

Parents are responsible for their children. If they enter into dangerous alliances and nefarious actions that bring wrath upon their children, the parents are the only ones to blame.

9/13/2010 9:53:34 AM

Quote :

" It wasn't because they hated freedom and democracy (which we're not particularly good stewards of), it's because they hate our influence in the region where they live."

Quote :

"It wasn't about them "hating our freedom" (though they certainly don't care for it), or whatever."

You know, it actually is about them hating our freedom. The primary grievance Al Qaeda and like-minded groups have against the West is the encroachment of liberal, secular, and democratic values into Muslim societies, which they would prefer to have mired in seventh century Islamic law. This is what their whole philosophy is based upon. This is why they exist. This is why they get mad when the Muslim nation of Kuwait is liberated by the West, and why they feel the need to explode, mutilate, and poison little girls for the crime of having attended school. If you don't know this, you don't know anything about 9/11.

9/13/2010 9:56:31 AM

Still our fault.

9/13/2010 10:23:48 AM

^^As I said before, that's what they want us to think. But that is not what the heads really believe.

Quote :

"We watched the towers fall during Military History"

Your high school had a class on military history? Did you live on a base? Does NCSU even have such a class?

[Edited on September 13, 2010 at 10:43 AM. Reason : -]

9/13/2010 10:42:39 AM

Quote :

"As I said before, that's what they want us to think. But that is not what the heads really believe."

You've got to be kidding. This is crackpot shit.

9/13/2010 11:11:24 AM