In the market for a low miles sedan in the 15k range. Want a semi-sporty sedan... Something with room and a manual transmission. RWD would be nice but I'm not wanting to go the BMW/Lexus rt. Had considered Volvo, still would consider Volvo.

I'm coming out of a '93 Integra RS which has 250,000 on the clock and a bad 2nd gear synchro. I'm trading it to my buddy who is putting a H22 in there, and giving me a '70s Yamaha RD350. I have always admired the acura TL, been looking at this one in the link below. My mom and step-dad live near there so I may have them go check it out. What think you?

http://autos.yahoo.com/used-cars/acura-tl-cars355911632;_ylt=AosN9Uu4wdiNBOkV.2JFJlY1VY54;_ylv=3?sortcol=price&sortdir=up&askpriceub=17500&askpricelb=15000&deliverymileageub=any&deliverymileagelb=any&location=Raleigh,+NC+27603&listingtype=used&model=tl&make=acura&distance=300

[Edited on September 1, 2010 at 12:42 PM. Reason : d]

9/1/2010 12:38:52 PM

Don't stick to just one brand, life is too short.

Also, why no BMW when you're looking for a "sport sedan"? That's why BMWs exist(-ed?). A 330i ZHP would be purrfect.

9/1/2010 1:02:36 PM

The main reason I'm shying away from BMW is the maintenance cost stigma. It seems that they are a bit more expensive to start off as well, at least for something low miles and newish. I'm no acura fanboy, but I have always admired Honda products.

9/1/2010 1:07:59 PM

WRX

9/1/2010 1:11:20 PM

BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35 (IBTNMSJ), Audi A4, Subaru Legacy GT & WRX are good choices.

Volvo, Lexus, and Acura? WTH

Do you want a "sports sedan" or a "sporty" sedan (aka tarted up FWD noseheavy vanilla sedan)?

9/1/2010 1:33:50 PM

I'd like to get at least 30mpg highway. Cloth interior would be nice, not a big fan of leather. That is one annoying thing with the TL, along with having to go through menus in the nav system to change the radio.

I'm not going to be driving like a bat out of hell most of the time, so the difference between a tarted up FWD noseheavy vanilla sedan and a 50/50 RWD true sports sedan is going to be on the back burner of importance (though it would be nice to have RWD, as originally stated). I want something quick with a manual transmission, with space for 4-5 adults and headroom for me. I want something reliable that will not nickel and dime me to death over the next 5-10 years. Any sort of VW is out for that reason.

I have not looked much into the subaru legacy GT, nor BMW 330, but am currently reading on them. I would love to own a BMW, not sure if now is the time or not.

Quote :

"Volvo, Lexus, and Acura? WTH"

care to explain? The V70 is on my list though maintenance is a concern with that one (awd). I'd shoot for an older RWD volvo if it met my requirement of low miles. I already stated that i'm not interested in a lexus... I know hondas can be pricey to fix, but it seems in general they are pretty solid.

9/1/2010 2:22:45 PM

^an older RWD Volvo is about as far away from sporty as you can get in a European car.

I quoted those makes b/c there's very little sporty about them. Based on your more recent post I think the Legacy GT is exactly what you want.

9/1/2010 3:08:49 PM

330i zhp, wrx, legacy gt, s60r/v70r, s4, evo, g35

9/1/2010 3:20:25 PM

Maxima, Altima, G35/G37, TL, IS300 end thread.

Volvo are not reliable and are just as expensive as BMW to fix.

9/1/2010 3:21:49 PM

The older volvos have potential, they take extra boost well and suspension modifications help damp the suspension wigglys... To put it mildly I don't want a camry. I'm pretty easy, have a work van for the heavy hauling, the RD for fun (well, after I get it back in hot running condition)

9/1/2010 3:22:16 PM

You could even look at a two or three year old Dodge Charger R/T with the variable displacement 5.7L. You can easily get 4 large adults in that car no problem. RW drive. Low cost to maintain. Decent gas mileage....
Just not manual...

[Edited on September 1, 2010 at 3:23 PM. Reason : m]

9/1/2010 3:23:17 PM

stay away from the new Legacy's. They are pigs. The 05-06 were the sportiest ones and they kept getting heavier and softer from there.

And 30mpg highway pretty much rules out an AWD car.

9/1/2010 3:32:25 PM

^^ Gah, I hate that mash gas, wait 2 or 3 seconds for (exaggerated for time dilation) the down-shift, zoom feeling. My girlfriend's Passat does that shit, and bless its tiny little turbo, but damn.

^ that '05 arena seems to be where I'm at

[Edited on September 1, 2010 at 3:36 PM. Reason : d]

9/1/2010 3:34:27 PM

You will have a LOT of trouble finding an 05-06 Legacy GT with a manual in decent condition. They're all northern cars, and most of them are autos. My friend picked up an '05 model locally a year ago with a manual tranny but he really lucked out.

One thing you probably don't realize about turbo Subarus is that they can have high oil consumption if you drive it enough to enjoy it. Figure a quart every 1000-1500 miles.

9/1/2010 3:41:24 PM

I had a WRX wagon that used no oil what so ever at over 200k, open exhaust, a lot more boost, tuning, etc. The little thing was pretty quick too. I did have a weird runability problem that ended up being spark plugs though...

9/1/2010 3:48:06 PM

I guess a lot of oil consumption would be the fault of a leaky turbo?

9/1/2010 3:54:08 PM

hype RRRRRRRRR sedan

9/1/2010 4:23:53 PM

Evo

9/1/2010 4:42:29 PM

The EVO is almost a sports car, a bit much for somebody looking for a "sporty sedan", I think.

The Civic Si is actually a great suggestion if you have to stick with Honda, those are good cars, tons of fun.

RE: Oil consumption, an engine can use oil due to a number of reasons. I'd not heard of high consumption
being common on Subarus, but oil seals in the turbo, valve seals, and piston rings come to mind as possible
culprits...

9/1/2010 5:24:14 PM

Quote :

"FOUR DOOR SPORTS CAR"

9/1/2010 5:30:11 PM

Lotus Carlton

9/1/2010 5:38:02 PM

2009 Saab 93SS's are DIRT cheap now... at least test drive one.

9/1/2010 5:40:37 PM

G37S, 7 speed automatic thing goes like a rocket.

Nevermind, looked at the TL youre looking at and assuming thats your price range. Go drive an older G35S

[Edited on September 1, 2010 at 6:11 PM. Reason : price range]

9/1/2010 6:09:40 PM

Nissan Makes Some Fucking Junk

9/1/2010 6:19:56 PM

Dude, that generation TL in the ad is a winner. They were widely praised, and they're reliable. You should definitely check one out.

9/1/2010 10:20:17 PM

you can get a real good deal on G35 sedan at around $15k. the coupe, on the other hand, will be hard to find.

9/1/2010 10:54:29 PM

but ^^^

9/2/2010 8:23:59 AM

BMW wrote the book on this segment. They have absolutely dominated it for 30 years.

They might be a little more expensive to own than some of their Japanese competition (really, the G35 is the only real competition), but I don't think it's going to be a make-or-break sort of difference, and it's worth it.

Go get an E46 330i.

9/2/2010 8:37:55 AM

Quote :

"The EVO is almost a sports car, a bit much for somebody looking for a "sporty sedan", I think. The Civic Si is actually a great suggestion if you have to stick with Honda, those are good cars, tons of fun. RE: Oil consumption, an engine can use oil due to a number of reasons. I'd not heard of high consumption being common on Subarus, but oil seals in the turbo, valve seals, and piston rings come to mind as possible culprits..."

Personal preference. I would not get a fwd 'sport sedan'.

thanks for naming almost every possible way that an engine can use oil. I needed that lesson.

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 9:57 AM. Reason : .]

9/2/2010 9:56:38 AM

I've been digging the Saabaru (Saab 9-2x) lately. They're hard to find, but when they pop up the price is usually great considering what you're getting. It's basically just a WRX wagon with slightly different suspension setup, different steering rack, different interior and different body.

Check this example out:
http://norfolk.craigslist.org/ctd/1918209437.html

It's a 2005, manual transmission, with only 52k miles for $9,000. That's going to be pretty fucking hard to beat. Of course, it's not a sedan. Are wagons out of the question?

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 10:07 AM. Reason : l]

9/2/2010 10:06:37 AM

^isn't that the non-turbo version though? i think it's the aero's that are the wrx equivalents.

9/2/2010 10:10:16 AM

^ You're right...I didn't realize they made a naturally aspirated model to be honest.

9/2/2010 10:18:49 AM

toyotafj40s, please unwind your panties. <3 My comment wasn't directed just at you. My WRX didn't use any oil, despite high mileage/hard use+ modifications, nor do I know Subarus to be particularly oil hungry. I'm not trying to imply you or anybody else in particular needs a lesson on what can cause oil consumption.

While we're at it, you say you don't want a FWD sporty sedan, while defending the EVO? The EVO drives great, and I would really consider it a sports car (more than anything else with 4 doors), yet in my mind the Civic Si is just a much milder form of the same thing. The EVO has a transverse engine, with rather terrible weight distribution. We all know the proper answer here for that price range, an e46 330i ZHP.

9/2/2010 10:19:51 AM

Quote :

"We all know the proper answer here for that price range, an e46 330i ZHP."

Agreed, though if I was him I'd try to locate a Legacy GT 5sp, at least to test drive.

9/2/2010 10:33:12 AM

I don't think the 2.0 engines have as much of a reputation for it (everyone I know with a 2.0 has no issues), but I know from firsthand experience that the 2.5 liter engines go through oil. I've got one friend with an '05 STi that has just an aftermarket blowoff valve on it. He probably does a quart every 1000-2000 miles. I've got another friend with an '05 Legacy and full bolt ons that goes through it at about the same rate.

It's mostly cause by crankcase blowby. Some people swear by particular brands to reduce consumption, and if you actually look into it you'll see that blowby catch cans are actually big business on those cars. There are at least four closed systems (referred to as Air Oil Separators) available plus people put together custom stuff. Crawford and Grimmspeed make the expensive separators.

If you drive the car easy, install one of those oil separator do-hickeys, or try different types of oil then the oil consumption could definitely be less. If you drive them for enjoyment though, I'd expect rotary engine levels of consumption.

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 11:59 AM. Reason : if you don't like checking your oil, stay away from the 2.5's at least]

9/2/2010 11:58:22 AM

I beat the hell out of my WRX. Granted, its only a year and a half old, but I've done 4 autoX's, a Rallycross, two HPDE's, and I drive it like I stole it every day.

Haven't noticed any oil consumption issues, when I drain my oil pretty much all of it comes out the drain hole.

Not sure what I'm doing wrong :shrug:

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 12:04 PM. Reason : mine is an 09 2.5l]

9/2/2010 12:01:53 PM

What brand of oil do you use?

9/2/2010 12:24:49 PM

have been using mobile 1 but recently switched to royal purple.

my car is pretty much stock as far as induction/fuel goes. no accessport, reflash, etc

9/2/2010 12:33:34 PM

I wonder how much of a role the age of the engine and the type of oil play. My two friends are not using synthetic oil and both have around 60k on the clock.

9/2/2010 12:44:52 PM

I would agree on 330 zhp in terms of pure beauty, but '06 E90 325i is now in $15k range and that would be my suggestion Chassis is newer, more rigid, suspension is completely revised and E90 is much better in terms of safety than E46.

I would also look at E90 330i which maybe in $18k range now, but you get 40hp more than 325i.

[Edited on September 2, 2010 at 3:11 PM. Reason : .]

9/2/2010 3:10:51 PM

^it's also heavier and more isolated.

Honest question: are people overly concerned with safety? I mean if I'm cruising around in my airbag-less 1992 Integra (and nonfunctional ABS) I don't worry that I'll be killed b/c my car's not as safe as a 2010 MY car. I don't give it a second thought.

9/2/2010 3:16:47 PM

^I'm in that group now; I t-boned a guy last spring and my airbags never went off

9/2/2010 3:18:25 PM

My brother has a 2007 E90. It's not a bad car. I drove a 2200 mile road trim with him in it. It's kind of underpowered among the bunch we are discussing here though. The straight line is adequate but lags behind some of the other cars mentioned here.

9/2/2010 6:13:16 PM

^^^ Exactly. If I'm ok with motorcycles, I'm ok with ANY car.

^^ ha, I keep the airbag fuse pulled out of my S2000



I don't think I'd get a ZHP if I were dustm. Not worth the extra money, for his purposes. A regular 330i, preferably with the sport package, is the sweet spot in terms of bang for the buck, in my opinion...and $15k will get a really nice one.

9/2/2010 7:10:01 PM

a lot of enthusiasts don't care about safety features, but for somebody that is looking for advice i usually mention safety. it is one of those things that nobody cares about until something happens.

btw, E90 is more isolated in terms of highway noise which is good, but not in terms of feel. chassis is more communicative than E46 and steering is just as good.

9/2/2010 9:39:46 PM

I'm going for the 'my truck weighs more than your car hope'

fuck if i die at least their shit will be fucked up too

9/2/2010 9:43:54 PM

My $.02:

I always wanted an E46 330i, so I am biased. I flew to Dallas to get a grey on black leatherette 04 6sp Sports Package with 81k Feb 2009. I paid 13k. It now has 113k and gets 30mpg. Calculated average since I left Dallas is 29.2mpg.

I can tell this car was a daily driver and not an enthusiast car. Plus, it was a repo. When I got it, I had the front window regulators, passengers mirror, and an O2 sensor replaced under CPO. I also had the fuel pump and intake valve (DISA) replaced and engine flashed due to a hesitation at 3.5k under CPO. Since CPO expired, I replaced both intake boots (cracked lower), front lower control arms (they were ok), front lower control arm bushings (they were shot), rear trailing arm bushings (they were ok), rear shocks (one leaking) with new mounts (they were ok). There is a small clunk in the rear under braking, which is either the diff bushing or the stupid caliper bushings (its not the trailing arm bushings as that was my first guess). I change the oil at 6.5-7k miles with 0w30 or 0w40 (whichever is on special). Everything else is bang up. It is definitely worth a little maintenance.

I love this car. Other than the CPO items, I did everything on it myself. Parts are very reasonable if armed with a CCA membership or google. Realoem.com is your friend.

The trunk is not as big as the E30, but we (wife, bebe, and I) can easily take it on a trip. Car seat fits well, but my 18mo daughter is a giant and she likes to keep her feet on the seat back.

I felt the ZHP was over the top. While the front fascia is gorgeous, the suspension is debated to be identical to the sports package. Plus the wheels beg to be rashed with that lip. The alignment on the ZSP and ZHP both are aggressive, so there will be camber wear without religious rotations. The E90s are like this also.

9/2/2010 10:06:41 PM

Quote :

"Plus the wheels beg to be rashed with that lip."

Solution: stop driving into !@#$ing curbs

9/2/2010 11:00:12 PM

this is a good deal imo
http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/1932026691.html

9/3/2010 12:18:56 AM

Waldo, I have to assume you haven't driven a ZHP car?

I've driven both, and as good as the sports package is, the ZHP is a very special car, from gearing to shock tuning,
roll bars and I do believe there's plenty more (available cloth, sunroof delete, more open exhaust, different tuning, so
forth). I was thoroughly impressed, and if I were in the market for something like that, it'd be hard to say no to that,
but I'm pretty biased I suppose. I <3 hi performance BMW sedans. I keep wanting another e36 M3/4.

[Edited on September 3, 2010 at 12:47 AM. Reason : not to mention quicker steering ratio, better steering wheel? I don't remember all the details now.]

9/3/2010 12:46:43 AM