Ok so here is the situation. Lots of words but here goes.

There is a development in my neighborhood. The "developer" sold 5 of the properties in "as is" condition and the home owners have done full remodels(basically took it down to the foundations). 4 out of those 5 are complete. 3 of them are look really good. The other that is complete is sub standard and it was done by a "general contractor." The 5th one is being done by the same "general contractor" and is going at a snails pace. I looked the guy up and he owns his own construction company(has a website and all) but the building permit was pulled by another contractor. Which means that this guy is not licensed. I have learned that he is building a new single family home for a young couple and I told the "developer" that I didn't think it was a good idea because it seemed a little suspect to me that this guy was using another contractors license to pull permits. I told him that the only way that this was legal is if he was an employee of the contractor that pulled the permits. He responded "oh yea, he is a foreman for that company." The next day, I called the dumpster company and asked who the dumpster belonged to that was on that particular site and the lady said "it is in "general contractors" name." I told this to the developer and he got very defensive and asked me why I was maliciously trying to hurt this guy. I told him that I was just trying to protect him and the homeowners if this guy was doing illegal things. He told me that he was going to request a letter from the contractor that pulled the permits saying that this guy was a foreman for his company and that he would do so by tomorrow. I've let the new homeowners know that it seems suspect to me and they are ok with it because they have been waiting a year to start their house and do not want another road bump. I have also told the couple that is doing the 5th remodel and "they are satisfied with the quality so far (its in framing stages).

Also, the developer is currently remodeling 4 of the homes himself and saying that construction costs are less than $30k on the permit applications so that he does not need a general contractor to do the work. I called him out on that and he really had no response.

I could report it to the licensing board but that would hurt the progression of the neighborhood and I don't want to do that.

Once I get the letter I plan on getting it to everyone he has done something for(one that is complete, one that is already started, and the single family home that he is supposed to build.)

I think that I should just wash my hands of it once I do that?

Points that make me think he is unlicensed....
-He has his own company that he advertises but is a foreman for someone else's company that does the exact type of work?
-The dumpster is in his name and not the contractor that "he is a foreman for."
-It seems like 5 days is a long time to get a confirmation letter that someone is an employee."
-The developer has never met the contractor that the guy is a foreman for.


Also, is there any way that I could get in trouble for knowing something is fishy and not reporting it?

Sorry for the words...

1/14/2010 11:07:41 PM

I may be reading this wrong...but it reads like you are concerned about the progress of someone else's home and property in your neighborhood. So other than it being in your neighborhood, you have no monetary stake in the development or house.

Don't get involved...not your problem if shit goes sour.

1/14/2010 11:13:29 PM

i'm having trouble seeing how you have a dog in this fight

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 11:15 PM. Reason : ^my thoughts exactly]

1/14/2010 11:15:16 PM

agreed. i guess i just don't want all the new development in the neighborhood to be crap. The homes that the developer is doing himself are also substandard.

the developer also told me that as long as a home that is done substandard has the same "curb appeal" as the one beside it that is done professionally then it will sell for the same amount because "most people wont know the difference"

could it potentially hurt my property value?

also wanted to give neighbors/friends a heads up.

i think the letter could help if things go wrong in the future.

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 11:24 PM. Reason : ..]

1/14/2010 11:21:46 PM

This is what happens when you don't buy a house in an established area. Sorry

1/14/2010 11:27:49 PM

^not sure I follow you. there is development going on. I also didn't buy. I built. which is a good thing if you have the ability to do it yourself.

1/14/2010 11:32:30 PM

the only way to ensure that your neighbors don't "bring down your property value" is to live w/o close neighbors

1/14/2010 11:36:46 PM

^like in the country?

1/14/2010 11:39:43 PM

yeah

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 11:41 PM. Reason : it's not your property. you don't get a say-so in it.]

1/14/2010 11:41:12 PM

well i'm not there, i would like to live in the country but i had an opportunity to build here and put some cash in my pocket when i move so that is what i decided to do.

i thought i could come to the lounge and get some thoughts on the situation that i asked about, not opinions on where i live...

maybe we should move it to chit chat for some real entertainment?

[Edited on January 14, 2010 at 11:47 PM. Reason : needed a smiley]

1/14/2010 11:46:23 PM

the OP was answered with the first post

you asked about your neighbors' actions lowering your property value

i gave my opinion

don't get offended

1/14/2010 11:49:31 PM

not offended. if some one is that easily offended then they def don't need to be on TWW.

i really just wanted these folks to know that there was some illegal mess going on that put them at risk on a pretty big investment. they all do now so I'm thinking I am done with it.

1/14/2010 11:53:48 PM

good job brocephus

1/14/2010 11:55:30 PM

GC licenses are there for a reason. If this dude can do a remodel from the frame/foundation out then he should be able to get a GC license. If he can't, then there is something wrong and both he and the GC that is putting his neck on the line for permits need to be held accountable.

I could care less that he is going with budget oriented rebuilds that aren't suitable to the neighborhood that you want to live in, but it's really not fair to the honest guy who has a real stake in his business if he isn't following the state's licensing requirements.

How would you feel if you spent a good bit of money and a lot of time getting a license and insurance, registering your business, getting tax id's, etc. only to have some jackleg contractor guy steal jobs from you because he has nothing invested in his business and is willing to undercut your pricing. Fuck those shady fuckers. Half the time the customer gets burned and loses more money than they would have spent with a real GC.

[Edited on January 15, 2010 at 12:34 AM. Reason : l]

1/15/2010 12:33:25 AM

Quote :

"not sure I follow you. there is development going on. I also didn't buy. I built. which is a good thing if you have the ability to do it yourself."

If you build in a neighborhood that is undergoing construction, you don't know what you're going to get as neighbors. So you can end up with stuff like you're describing. It's a crapshoot unless you live somewhere anal retentive like Cary.

1/15/2010 12:52:23 AM

^^ I agree 100%. but should it really fall to this nosy neighborhood busybody to police that sort of thing, or should we have better enforcement of regulations and standards from the gov't?!

you got three options. 1) man up and call the licensing board. If the contractor is doing something illegal, let him hold the consequences for it. 2) keep your mouth shut. it'll only make your new neighbors think you're a jerk. I bet the only reason they haven't told you to shove it is they are happy they found out who the neighborhood nutball is.

honestly, what the hell do you think these new people are going to do? They've already committed to the job, pretty much. Either they do nothing, but now they're angry/worried, or it turns into what you didnt want to do and halts work in your neighborhood.

either do something or don't, but don't go around nagging people about their poor choice in contractors.

1/15/2010 1:05:55 AM

AFAIK, in NC what this guy is doing, while sketchy, is legal. The ultimate responsibility that the construction meets code is on the person who pulled the permits. For instance, as a home owner you can always pull your own permits. You can then hire anyone you damn well please to either do the work, or deal with subcontrators. It's the permit holder who is ultimately responsible.

1/15/2010 1:19:26 AM

When you pull permits as the homeowner you have to sign a form saying that you are a resident of the property and that it is not (currently) for sale. This is an additional form that is not required to licensed contractors.

You can legally contract jobs up to some value without a GC license. It sounds like it is $30k from ctnz's posts, but I can't verify that. While it might be legal for him to act as a contractor on a minor remodel, he deserves to have his ass busted if he's going over the legal limit on the job.

1/15/2010 1:47:39 AM

not sure i'm a nut job. i would think that if i was doing something that was costing me a lot of money and i wasn't familiar with it because it wasn't my line of work then I would appreciate someone that was in that field giving me a heads up that something sketchy was going on.

all the work over there is at least $60k +

Quote :

"AFAIK, in NC what this guy is doing, while sketchy, is legal."

wrong. these permits were pulled by a licensed GC that isn't this guy. when asked about it he all of the sudden "is a foreman for this guys company"

also, the people the for the new construction home have signed a buyers agreement with this "contractor." i'm sure they could get out of it if he misrepresented himself.

[Edited on January 15, 2010 at 6:28 AM. Reason : oops]

1/15/2010 6:26:13 AM

Quote :

"if i was doing something that was costing me a lot of money and i wasn't familiar with it because it wasn't my line of work then I would appreciate someone that was in that field giving me a heads up that something sketchy was going on."

Trust me, they most likely won't. When my parents were getting renovations done to their house, I told them the guy they hired was sketchy as hell and even pulled up his shitty BBB report. They told me I had no idea what I was talking about. A year later the guy completely trashed their house and fled the state to avoid paying for what turned out to be numerous lawsuits against him.

If he's doing something illegal, report him to the proper authorities, but don't be surprised when work stops on the house for several months if not longer.

1/15/2010 6:31:39 AM

Quote :

"I've let the new homeowners know"

I DO live out in the country and we did plenty of things WITHOUT permits. County dependent, it will all come together for final inspection, as they will not schedule a final inspection without other paperwork being in order first.

You've done all you need to do. I understand trying to protect the value of your home in your neighborhood, but there's being a good neighbor, and crossing the line into somebody else's business. You go further, you are going to be crossing the line. If you are trying to protect them, don't.

[Edited on January 15, 2010 at 7:18 AM. Reason : .]

1/15/2010 7:11:50 AM

why are you trying to maliciously hurt the guy?

1/15/2010 7:35:26 AM

I live in a new neighborhood down here in SC. Pretty much every home is <5 years old. There is one builder who has built ~33% of the homes in the loop. His floor plans are meh and overall interior work is crappy (as admitted by some of my neighbors who bought from him). The houses though look good overall on the outside and homes on our block always sell quickly and have been retaining their value well even in these economic times.

Assuming all of these substandard homes look okay on the outside, I doubt it will really hurt the value of your home if/when you sell. Just my feelings on this situation. Hopefully these people buying the substandard homes are getting thorough home inspections done before closing. I know some people think that is a waste of money on a new home, but I'd much rather fork over a few hundred dollars for a good inspection than be stuck with a lemon on the biggest purchase I'd ever made.

1/15/2010 8:24:59 AM

i agree with the home inspection thing.

1/15/2010 9:11:48 AM

I would report the guy out of principle. It sounds like the developer you bought the property from knows the jackleg contractor isn't licensed and is trying to cut corners. These unlicensed contractors don't work cheaper; they make their money by cutting corners on construction and not having workers conpensation, liability insurance, bonding, or cash reserves if shit goes south. I'd rather have a contractor that knows the importance of using proper construction techniques to build a house instead of one that knows what they can get away with, and there's no way in hell I would risk someone without insurance working knowingly on my property. If anything, I would make the homeowners aware of the risk they are taking with someone without insurance doing construction on their property.

Quote :

"If he's doing something illegal, report him to the proper authorities, but don't be surprised when work stops on the house for several months if not longer."

The contractor doing the work will get a bullshit slap on the wrist and a stop-work order. However, the GC that applied for the permits will either finish the job or lose their license. If they are a legitimate GC, they won't risk losing their license and will take steps to finish the work. If the guy is some retiree that is just selling off his license because he doesn't give a fuck anymore, this could get really ugly.

This all depends on what your definition of "substandard" is. If you're noticing that the soil was incorrectly compacted prior to installation of foundations or slab concrete for a basement, then by all means report the asshole for building garbage that's going to fall apart. The same applies if he's using undersized fasteners for roof trusses or joists. If he's polishing concrete that's located outside instead of brushing it, I would just let the homeowner know that polished concrete will chip up as soon as it freezes and leave it at that. If you're in disagreement with his choice of brick color or porch layout, then don't be an asshole to your neighbors.

1/16/2010 1:06:56 PM

I got like 6 sentences in and the charlie brown "adult" voice started playing in my head.

It sounds legit to me...the GC listed on the permits is responsible for whatever work is done over there, if he is acting as straw man then he is putting his own license on the line. Does not sound like any of your business. Even if the guy does work as his foreman, he could be the one to order dumpsters...the GC does not have to order the dumpsters. Many GC's very rarely visit their work sites and have very competent construction managers that manage the work. The GC is just the one who could meet the very stringent financial responsibility to get the license. They do not have to supervise the work first hand, they are just responsible for the work and the money.

It sounds like to me you are just making yourself look like a dumbass.

1/16/2010 3:09:23 PM

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 3:17 PM. Reason : double]

1/16/2010 3:15:57 PM

sounds like you are just trying to fuck with the man's livelihood, you best bet is to keep your nose out of shit where it doesnt belong

1/16/2010 3:17:02 PM

^if the man's livelihood is sketchy/unethical then it deserves to be fucked with

1/16/2010 4:30:24 PM

I have every reason to believe that he does not work for the GC. He has his own company that he has a website for. No one has ever been out here but him. The developer requested a letter from the GC that pulled the permit saying that this guy was a foreman for his company on Monday evening. It is now Saturday evening. If there was any question of whether I was doing something ethical or not I think I could produce a letter pretty quickly.

Also, this guy may be using the GCs license without him knowing. All he needs is the license number for the permit application.

Also, the developer has never met the GC that is on the permit...

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 5:25 PM. Reason : ..]

1/16/2010 5:20:08 PM

Just let it go man.

1/16/2010 5:28:46 PM

let it go, youre still not going to sell the house for your asking price. Maybe in 5-10 years if the neighborhood shapes up to be what you are expecting, but a couple new houses can't overcome the locals/local realtors thoughts about the neighborhood.

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 7:00 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2010 7:00:03 PM

you can build under another GC's license. happens all the time.

1/16/2010 7:04:34 PM

oh wow I had not made the connection until now, you are the same genius from this thread message_topic.aspx?topic=585148

I applaud you for investing in downtown Raleigh, but it sounds like you are mad because you got in over your head. You probably should have bought a house somewhere with an HOA.

I do not think you have a leg to stand on with this. You do not have to be a GC to supervise a construction site, you just have to work under one. I have watched million dollar homes go up and the actual GC might see them 3 or 4 times in the process just passing by.

1/16/2010 7:18:02 PM

this is really none of your god damn business imo. leave it the fuck alone.

1/16/2010 7:40:44 PM

^^lol

how am i in over my head? I could sell right now for what tww real estate company says its worth and make a considerable amount of money. i am simply trying to protecting my investment and everyone else that has bought in to the neighborhood from someone that is just here to make a quick easy buck and get out. this neighborhood was terrible a year and a half ago and I kick started the development. These guys are cutting corners so that they can make all the money they can because they don't care. if i wanted to buy a house for what it's worth and watch the equity slowly creep up then I would have done so. also, i don't need to pay someone in an HOA to tell me I cant have a flagpole in my yard.

when the homeowner is paying this guy directly to do the work then what they are doing is illegal. you don't have to tell me what is legal. I have asked for a letter from the GC stating that this guy is a foreman and they are having trouble producing it.

i really think I have done all I need to do by letting everyone that is involved know that it is suspicious. I am going to tell them to request Lien Waivers and Warranties for the work that has been done from whoever is listed on the permit.

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 8:25 PM. Reason : +^]

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 8:28 PM. Reason : ..]

1/16/2010 8:25:26 PM

Quote :

"also, i don't need to pay someone in an HOA to tell me I cant have a flagpole in my yard."

EXACTLY

Just like these people don't want you telling them how to build their house.

1/16/2010 8:37:55 PM

^ not telling them how to build. informing them that that the person that is building one of the biggest purchases that they ever make is potentially misrepresenting themselves.

thread title should say "have i done all i should?"

my answer to that is yes so i am done with it.

1/16/2010 8:45:53 PM

It's really not your place to tell them. They more than likely could give a rats ass as long as it gets built and as cheap as possible.

Stop being so nosy and worry about yourself.

1/16/2010 9:05:11 PM

they are paying a set price for the home. the contractor is getting a set fee for the construction plus he gets what ever he "saves" from the construction costs.

they could pay the same price and have a contractor that is licensed that has a chance of losing that license if he doesn't perform the way that he should. this guy has nothing to lose.

1/16/2010 9:11:18 PM

If you are really concerned http://www.nclbgc.net/. It is perfectly legal for someone to be added on under a someone elses GC license, and is very common.

1/16/2010 9:20:53 PM

negative ghost rider

i don't think you understand. homeowners are paying this guy directly. he has his own company which is not licensed. he is using another company's license to pull permits.

the only way that it is legal is if this guy works for the company that pulled the permits.

"For the purpose of this Article any person or firm or corporation who for a fixed
price, commission, fee, or wage, undertakes to bid upon or to construct or who
undertakes to superintend or manage, on his own behalf or for any person, firm,
or corporation that is not licensed as a general contractor pursuant to this Article,
the construction of any building, highway, public utilities, grading or any improve-
ment or structure where the cost of the undertaking is thirty thousand dollars
($30,000) or more, or undertakes to erect a North Carolina labeled manufactured
modular building meeting the North Carolina State Building Code, shall be
deemed to be a “general contractor” engaged in the business of general con-
tracting in the State of North Carolina.
This section shall not apply to persons or firms or corporations furnishing or
erecting industrial equipment, power plant equipment, radial brick chimneys, and
monuments.
This section shall not apply to any person or firm or corporation who constructs
or alters a building on land owned by that person, firm or corporation provided
such building is intended solely for occupancy by that person and his family, firm,
or corporation after completion; and provided further that, if such building is not
occupied solely by such person and his family, firm, or corporation for at least 12
months following completion, it shall be presumed that the person, firm, or corpo-
ration did not intend such building solely for occupancy by that person and his
family, firm, or corporation."
§87-1. “General
contractor”
defined;
exceptions.

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 9:30 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 9:40 PM. Reason : ..]

1/16/2010 9:28:00 PM

In the time you have spent on here bitching about it you could have built their house for them.

1/16/2010 9:42:58 PM

i don't have that option.

1/16/2010 9:45:36 PM

Just like you really don't have any options in this matter.

IT'S NOT YOUR HOUSE.

1/16/2010 9:50:56 PM

i have plenty of options. i was just looking for opinions. i know what I'm going to do and I'm done with it.

1/16/2010 9:52:49 PM

god people like you are annoying

leave it the fuck alone.

1/16/2010 10:04:41 PM

I think it's funny how many people came in here to say what the contractor is doing is legal. They must not have a clue as to how contractors licenses work or why they exist.

1/16/2010 10:20:26 PM

welcome to tww where everyone knows everything. i just came for opinions... lol

like i mentioned before, I've advised all involved of the risks they are taking(and they are willing to take them) and I am going to wash my hands of it. These people will be my neighbors soon and I would like to have a positive relationship with them.

I may mention it to the board once everything is said and done and let them take it from there just for the simple fact that he is taking work from people who have paid their dues.

[Edited on January 16, 2010 at 10:33 PM. Reason : ..]

1/16/2010 10:27:21 PM

Snitches get stitches.

Seriously though. Let it go dude. It's not your house, its not your problem, stop sticking your nose in other peoples business.

You are going to come out of this entire thing looking like a tattle tale.

1/16/2010 10:39:22 PM