Why aren't there any widely available? At least to my knowledge there aren't any.

1/1/2010 2:22:36 PM

'CAUSE DIESEL'S JUST FER TOWIN SHEIT, DINT YA KNO?

1/1/2010 2:43:21 PM

I would love to have a diesel sports car. I want to get into diesels more but I just don't have a great desire for a VW shitbox or a truck with towing capability that I would use maybe once a year.

1/1/2010 4:37:42 PM

Aren't the engine's really, really heavy?

1/1/2010 5:02:06 PM

Fwiw bmw 335d is the closest thing to a diesel sports car sold in the US.

1/1/2010 5:13:09 PM

R8 TDI



TT TDI



don't guess they're available in the US though

[Edited on January 1, 2010 at 5:41 PM. Reason : sd]

1/1/2010 5:40:35 PM

sport compact?

1/1/2010 6:16:00 PM

1/1/2010 6:46:26 PM

i want one.

1/1/2010 7:06:55 PM

R8 TDI is not a production car... still a concept.

1/2/2010 3:02:33 PM

A3 TDI, too. but it's only FWD. Audi at one point planned to bring the TT TDI to the US, but that didn't happen.

1/2/2010 4:20:50 PM

i'd love to have one too, but lets face reality... until "normal" diesel passenger cars are widely accepted within the usdm, there's no way a diesel sports car is going to be seen. at least nothing mass produced. i don't see it happening for a long time. maybe in europe, but not here.

1/2/2010 8:06:46 PM

I don't know why it hasn't been accepted already. I doubt that the average american would really notice or know a difference between a petrol engine and diesel... Well, that is until they got to the gas station.

[Edited on January 2, 2010 at 8:43 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2010 8:43:37 PM

well, i see several reasons:

-in general, americans are retarded when it comes to all things automotive. they don't realize and don't care that there might be a better alternative (in some cases) to gasoline.

-the small percentage that does know about the existence of diesel passenger cars only remember the horrible smoke belching rattle boxes of the 80's like the infamous olds 350, sd benzes, etc.

-the oil companies hold a tighter grip over american based auto companies and their marketing. it takes more gasoline to run vehicles than diesel.

-the climate and extensive urban development in the u.s. doesn't dictate a real need for diesel like other locales around the world.

1/2/2010 9:12:40 PM

I'm not driving a gayass Golf. I said sports car, not fag-mobile.

1/2/2010 9:23:40 PM

define "sports car"

this one?

1/3/2010 8:32:23 PM

nah, this.

[Edited on January 3, 2010 at 10:35 PM. Reason : mofo's will put a b series in anything]

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 2:00 PM. Reason : -]

1/3/2010 10:34:05 PM

I'll take this one

1/4/2010 11:32:33 AM

win

1/4/2010 11:48:53 AM

"Regular" passenger cars with diesels would be great...but sports cars? Why in the hell would you want a diesel engine in a sports car? That makes about as much sense as swapping a turbocharged 'busa engine into a 1-ton pickup.

1/4/2010 11:53:45 AM

BMW 335d

1/4/2010 1:16:58 PM

^^so true.

1/4/2010 1:34:59 PM

why not? scared you might make more torque than hp? or what? power is power...

1/4/2010 4:12:21 PM

redlines below 5k don't excite me that much

I'm sure it could be fun, but as fun as gasoline? eh..

1/4/2010 4:23:52 PM

The SuperDodge was about as much fun as I've had in a LONG time. Even more fun than the Mercedes CLK230 I drove Friday night. The rush when that turbo spins up...PRICELESS.

1/4/2010 4:30:09 PM

^^fair enough, from a personal preference standpoint that's understandable. i'd say you should at least ride/drive a turned up diesel at somepoint if you haven't, though. it's a rush/sensation that's very different from any gas engine. you tend to forget the 5k+ redline thing, lol.

i guess i just assumed duke was scoffing at the possibility of a diesel engine providing comparable performance to a gas engined car which doesn't make sense to me. i know he considers hp to reign supreme, and that doesn't necessarily change with a diesel, it's just a different way of doing it. it's not out of the question for a fairly mildly built modern light duty diesel to push 400-500+rwhp (within a SMALL rpm range too). it just so happens to be making in excess of 900-1000lbs.ft. of torque by then also, so that's what gets focused on.

for me, i guess the attraction to it is the "daring to be different/wow factor" or whatever. doing more with less, etc. the possibility of doing it very efficiently and cleanly, yet still with an internal combustion engine. i'm just all about the final performance, really. i don't care what's going on under the hood as long as it stimulates my senses.

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 7:44 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2010 7:41:44 PM

Quote :

"BMW 335d"

Very impressive vehicle, until you compare it to the 335i.

and in a sports car, there is even less of a case for diesel.

Quote :

"why not? scared you might make more torque than hp? or what? power is power..."

there are gasoline engines (generally FI) that produce more ft-lbs than hp. I think the Evo is one case of this...if not, it's very close.

but regardless, a sports car should have a responsive engine that doesn't weigh a ton. Also, I've never seen a diesel engine that's optimized for horsepower--they're great for torque, but that doesn't count for shit in a sports car. I honestly don't know what the potential would be for a diesel optimized for power, not torque, as opposed to the gasoline engine. Neither have I ever seen a lightweight diesel.


I don't give a shit about the redline or specific output or whatever. It's about power, producing that power over a useable range, and weight of the engine. If a diesel could be designed to compete with a gasoline engine in those regards, I've certainly never seen it done.

Oh, and one other thing about diesels--in a sports car, torque has the drawback of requiring larger and heavier drivetrain parts (which are not only added weight--unsprung in some cases--but also rotating mass.)

Quote :

"i don't care what's going on under the hood as long as it stimulates my senses."

Agreed. I've had two S2000s (9000 rpm NA screamer), two turbo-fours, and a small-block domestic. I think rotaries are kinda cool, too, but I'd love to have an LSx in an RX-7, for example. I love watching built diesels drag race...I just don't think a diesel has any place under the hood of a sports car (at least not with any production diesel I'm aware of, even in modified form).

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 7:49 PM. Reason : ]

1/4/2010 7:43:59 PM

in regards to engine weight, i only find that relevant within the scheme of the rest of the car. so you've got a 500lb. engine, but the car is balanced say 52/48 and tips the scales at 2800lbs. is that really so bad then? besides, IF such a thing was ever to come to pass you would most certainly see some changes to address the exact downsides you mentioned in a production version.

just out of curiously and for comparison, what are modern passenger car diesels weighing these days? tdi's, d benzes/bmw's, etc. i haven't a clue.

1/4/2010 7:49:30 PM

Yeah, I don't know...and your example of a well-balanced diesel sports car is all well and good if they could actually make it (which is probably quite possible, starting with a from-scratch engine design).

What I'm saying is that I find it hard to believe that a diesel could compete with a gasoline engine if the measure is hp per lb per dollar, made in a responsive manner over a usably wide RPM. In other words, yeah, maybe they could build a well-balanced diesel sports car at an attractive overall weight...I'll buy that, but I'll bet money that it would either (A) make not nearly as much power as they could've made with gas, (B) make that power, but in an unusably-peaky, laggy package (which works ok for a drag racer, but not a sports car), (C) be made out of magnesium and titanium and some crazy shit mined from the core of Mars, and not compete from a cost standpoint, or (D) some combination of the above.

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 7:57 PM. Reason : i'd love to be proved wrong, but i don't see it happening.]

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 7:58 PM. Reason : but at any rate, the idea of any current diesel i'm aware of in a sports car is just silly.]

1/4/2010 7:56:44 PM

Quote :

"i'd say you should at least ride/drive a turned up diesel at somepoint if you haven't, though. it's a rush/sensation that's very different from any gas engine. you tend to forget the 5k+ redline thing, lol."

yeahh have to agree here. hell, even with a close to stock one i was in for a big "holy shit" when i realized how hard they could pull at low RPM's. i can't imagine riding in some of the crazy shit that's out there

1/4/2010 8:19:17 PM

^^oh, i agree it would need to be a from scratch design, or at least a heavily modified version of a current production engine.

as for the power being usable, responsive etc. across the rpm range, definitely! if you haven't had the pleasure to experience the latest computer controlled variable vane and/or compound turbo technology in newer diesels you're missing out and i think your fears would subside. in reference to a usable range, all that would really need to be adjusted is driving style. in a gasser, you might be working within 4-7k or whatever, a diesel you're working 1-4k. same range for practical purposes. which also yields the point that you're probably not working either engine harder in terms of rotating mass. i don't care to figure the math out, but i can't imagine spinning a heavier combo to a lower rpm requires more effort than spinning a lighter combo to a higher rpm.

your hp per lb. per dollar argument is certainly valid i believe, especially if we're considering the engine itself alone. i don't think there would be any gross difference, though, and certainly not if we consider the entire package put together (chassis, drivetrain, etc.).

bottom line, there's always going to be something "best" and something "better". i personally just see this as a very viable alternative from a cost and performance standpoint. it certainly wouldn't take top honors in every category, but i'd be willing to bet a well designed/put together example would fetch plenty if ties and a few wins...

[Edited on January 4, 2010 at 8:27 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2010 8:26:43 PM

I just want to fuck around with diesels but I have very little use for big trucks or gay VW shitboxes. So sportish cars are really the only option.

1/4/2010 8:35:29 PM

Quote :

"your hp per lb. per dollar argument is certainly valid i believe, especially if we're considering the engine itself alone. i don't think there would be any gross difference, though, and certainly not if we consider the entire package put together (chassis, drivetrain, etc.)."

If you concede that the engine itself would cost more if you somehow managed to make it compete with the gas engine otherwise, where would you save in the chassis, drivetrain, etc to make a net zero? ...especially considering that ALL of that stuff would have to be beefier to deal with the larger amounts of torque.

1/4/2010 8:43:08 PM

I've been in a TDI jetta (modified with something stupid like 30psi) and it was far and away the most underwhelming experience of my automotive life. It was cool because it was different.....and the black smoke. It was sooooooooooooo slow.

Duke is right.

1/5/2010 1:14:53 AM

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1431115/bmw_5_series_diesel_vs_petrol_in_top_gear/

skip to 4:40 for the comparison.

[Edited on January 5, 2010 at 4:47 PM. Reason : .]

1/5/2010 4:43:16 PM

1/21/2010 10:20:48 PM

^^
Jeremy Clarkson asks you, "Is the new diesel just as fast as the petrol v8?"


!!!Spoiler Alert!!!











































































































[NO]

[Edited on January 21, 2010 at 10:51 PM. Reason : .]

1/21/2010 10:51:42 PM

i would drive the heck out of a rabbit tdi

1/21/2010 11:40:09 PM

i would drive the heck out of a rabbit tdi







































But I would not purchase one.

1/22/2010 1:24:19 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6sXydRN5ow

1/22/2010 1:36:44 AM

Quote :

"i would drive the heck out of a rabbit tdi But I would not purchase one."

not in the US you wouldn't

1/22/2010 1:57:32 PM

^well, you can get a rabbit tdi here if you don't mind that vw went back to calling it the golf:

http://www.vw.com/vwfeatures/golf/en/us/

1/22/2010 3:30:09 PM

ah, so they went rabbit to golf to rabbit and then back to golf again? i didn't know that

1/22/2010 3:42:07 PM

I just priced mine at $28,331.

If MPG was my goal, I'd just get an Insight.

[Edited on January 22, 2010 at 8:22 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2010 8:13:50 PM

Golf GTD... a diesel 'version' of the GTI:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/08/vw-golf-gtd-may-arrive-with-170-hp-jetta-tdi-cup-replica-coming/

168 hp
260 lb/ft
44 mpg

1/22/2010 8:41:13 PM

Audi is supposedly going to produce a diesel version of the R8, and I seem to recall a Pagani Zonda that was going to run on biodiesel.

1/22/2010 9:04:23 PM

The R8 V12 TDI has been out as a concept for a couple of years, but won't be produced:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8#Audi_R8_TDI_diesel

Quote :

"In May 2009, Audi decided to halt plans to produce the R8 TDI, citing "the cost of re-engineering the petrol R8 to accommodate the massive twin-turbocharged diesel engine is simply too great – and that it would be unable to recoup its investment through sales alone"."

There hasn't been any concept biodiesel Zonda.


There is the Koenigsegg CCXR, which runs on ethanol (E85, E100, and 98 petrol), and produces 1,018 hp, in a 2,800 lb body!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koenigsegg_CCXR

1/22/2010 9:22:58 PM

Quote :

"^well, you can get a rabbit tdi here if you don't mind that vw went back to calling it the golf: "

that was the point.

and technically it is a golf unless it is a mk1 or mk5 sold in USA or Canada

[Edited on January 23, 2010 at 10:02 AM. Reason : ...]

1/23/2010 10:02:18 AM

TDI Cup

http://www.scca.com/contentpage.aspx?content=105

1/23/2010 1:18:18 PM

I feel like the video I posted is not getting enough love... Embed anyone? I would love a volvo like that

1/24/2010 8:28:46 PM