i'm at a portly 216 w/ around 28% body fat .i want to lose more than 2 lbs /week. i'm unemployed so that gives me the opportunity to workout a lot between my job hunting. i'm happy w. my size just loose this fat. i'm doing a 15-20 min of cardio then light-medium lifting for ab 30-45 mins daily &keeping my calorie intake around 2kcal. i've lost about 3lbs this week which i'm skeptical ab since it's week 1. i'm a novice at this so basically i'm askin am i doin it right? anything i should change or add??

also i've been trying to plan better to avoid supplements and things like that but i can use all the help i can get.i've been hearing positive things about green tea capsules. since it's natural i'm a lil more open to the idea of taking them.any body tried these?

one more thing is my concern for over training right now my body is pretty much sore all over. i've been stretching and taking extra hot showers .when i've worked all the muscle groups and i'm sore do i rest or should i work through the soreness? by this i mean if i do legs and im, still sore should i be on a treadmill for 20 mins?when my chest is sore do i do my nightly pushups? etc.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 7:20 AM. Reason : last bit.]

4/10/2009 7:09:35 AM

Not a fitness guru, but make sure you weigh yourself at the same time each day. Your weight will shift through out the day based on food intake and water weight. If you take it the morning each day, it will minimize those influences.

4/10/2009 7:41:46 AM

Instead of just doing one 15-20min cardio session a day, you should increase that to 2 or 3 sessions. After about 15 minutes of cardio, your metabolism increases and will continue after you stop. Therefore, you get a high return for your investment for the first 15-20 minutes and then after that just marginal benefits for every calorie you burn there and then.

one more thing: go get a physical and make sure your doctor agrees with your workout plan

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 7:48 AM. Reason : s]

4/10/2009 7:47:51 AM

If you're just started working out, then yes you will be extra sore. A little soreness is good after you've worked through your routine. It may take a day or two to feel fully sore - that's called Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, or DOMS. A lot of soreness is bad. If any one particular muscle group is extra sore, you should rest it until it's not. You're likely to do damage if you push over-exerted muscles too far.

As far as losing weight - you can't just cut caloric intake and expect that to be it.

You need to do all of the following:

1. Immediately upon waking up, drink 8 ounces of cold water. This jump starts your metabolism and tells your body that you're ready for the day.
2. Eat a big breakfast. Not huge - just big. A bowl of cereal, some toast, small glass of OJ. This is your fuel for the day.
3. Eat smaller meals throughout the rest of the day. I'll eat two small snack items, and those will count as a meal.
4. Eat a smaller dinner. Dinner should be the smallest meal, because you don't need that much energy to sleep.
5. Drink lots of water and stay hydrated throughout the day.

4/10/2009 8:54:18 AM

good info so far.

What are some good snack ideas? I've been looking and looking, but I'm having trouble finding stuff I actually like.

I really wish I liked more foods (especially healthy foods), but I just don't like them - such as vegetables, "healthy" salad dressings, etc.

I like fruit, so I try to eat grapes, a banana occasionally, apples (with a little peanut butter).

I've tried the low calorie snack packs, 100 calorie packs, and the like, but they don't ever seem to get the job done.

I could also use some advice for better dinners that are cheap & quick. I love chicken and when I have time, I typically throw some chicken on the george forman for dinner (either eat with BBQ sauce, or throw some italian seasons on it).

I've got breakfast down - special K + skim milk (though adding some toast or something would probably be a good idea - but what to put on it - honey? jelly?)

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 9:12 AM. Reason : .]

4/10/2009 9:12:33 AM

For cardio, try interval training for burning fat. You can switch up between that and jogging.

4/10/2009 9:21:05 AM

I eat granola bars, fruit, stuff like that for my snacks.

4/10/2009 9:30:22 AM

Try swimming. I have added it to my workout routine for the past 6 weeks or so and I think it is one of the things that has really helped me cut fat. It really stretches out your sore muscles in a good way. Do some additional static stretching before you get out of the pool to increase flexibility. Pullen Park is pretty close for most of us. I'm swimming a 1 mile session 1-2 times a week in addition to 3-4 nights in the gym and an occasional bike ride or tree chopping session.

4/10/2009 10:10:50 AM

I'm a big fan of almonds as a snack. Roma tomatoes are also quite tasty. om nom nom.

Anyone know where I can get a fairly accurate skin caliper to measure bodyfat. I don't trust the scale any farther than I can throw it.

4/10/2009 10:38:22 AM

^ you've got to be careful with any nuts. They're super fatty and its easy to eat too many. Make sure you portion out your servings and don't eat anymore than that.

Quote :

"What are some good snack ideas? I've been looking and looking, but I'm having trouble finding stuff I actually like."

Munching on carrots is a good appetite killer. Also, pretzels are tasty and aren't bad for you as long as you don't eat the whole bag, check the fat content and make sure its <= 1g per 28g serving.

Fill up your day with lots of fruits and vegetables. IMO if you really want to change your diet you've got to keep yourself from getting hungry during the day. You can do this by eating a bunch of filler type foods (low calorie, high fiber). Because once you get hungry you start craving those things you love most (for me its Bojangles ) and its much harder to resist at that point.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 11:16 AM. Reason : random smilie]

4/10/2009 11:16:15 AM

Do you belong to a gym? If so, I would immediately recommend getting involved with classes. Classes are great because you aren't thinking about the fact that you're working out as much, and they're usually at least 40 minutes.

You need to be doing more cardio. 15-20 minutes is just enough time to get warmed up and not nearly enough to burn fat. Fat burning itself is usually done when you're doing a slower exercise for an extended period of time (walking for 1+ hours) whereas getting your heartrate up in shorter periods (30-45 minutes) will help your conditioning and cardio health. Don't get me wrong, it also burns a lot of calories, but it's not fat burning specific.

Classes I would recommend:
Spin/cycle
Cardio pump (class with a combination of cardio and weights)

Look into running. Go slow to start out with but give it a shot.

Keep lifting weights 2-3 times a week. Weight training builds muscle which helps you burn fat. While your muscles are repairing you are still getting a metabolic benefit after your workout, whereas cardio you usually only burn what you burn during the exercise, if that makes sense.

4/10/2009 11:48:21 AM

There is no surefire answer to your question, besides eat less and move more. The details in regards to what you should eat and how you should move will vary greatly. What works for me may not work for you, but this is what I do.

~Work Out 30 Minutes Per Day, 5/7 Days Per Week.

~Alternate Between Cardio and Strength Training Consistently. The general idea is that when you are doing Cardio, your body is building/repairing muscle from your past Strength training, and when you are doing Strength training, your body is burning fat as a temporary fuel. Eventually, your body will be so busy trying to build muscle and increase your metabolism to adapt to Cardio that it will be forced to burn it's fat supplies:

*Week One
-M W F = Strength Training
-T TH = Cardio Training

*Week Two
-M W F = Cardio Training
-T TH = Strength Training

*Rinse and Repeat!

~Change Your Metabolism and Change Your Body:

*BREAKFAST > Lunch > dinner. As your body is busy building muscle and regulating your metabolism, it needs fuel. If you deliver the majority of your calories in the morning, and eat less around dinner, your body will burn fat as you sleep. Slowly your body will be at it's hungriest in the morning, because that's when it expects fuel.

*High Fiber, Fresh Fruits and Vegs, Avoid Empty Calories.

*Snacks are OK, but Don't Eat American Snacks. Try Baby Carrots, Celery, Grapes, Banana, Tuna.

~Drink Water. The Human Body consists mainly water, therefore there is nothing better than simple H2O to help lubricate and enhance your end goal.

4/10/2009 12:21:44 PM

check out http://www.crossfit.com and all the links and message boards on the left side. by far the most extensive and best fitness info on the net.

4/10/2009 12:53:51 PM

I found this interesting. A study at James Madison compared two groups of overweight men and women, one group did strength training and the other group combined weight lifting with aerobics. The group that just did the weight lifting ended up losing a higher percentage of body fat.

I'm guessing this is because muscle requires so much energy not only during the training, but also during recovery that your metabolism skyrockets and fat is broken down for energy.

I've always thought that strength training w/ short rest periods between sets (< 60 sec so your HR stays elevated) as a great way to lose weight.

Also, I would stay away from herbs and supplements. Studies show mixed results and a lot of them have been shown to be ineffective. The only FDA approved one is green tea extract for genital warts. Some of the herbs and supplements can actually interact w/ medications you may be taking. And if you are taking green tea and drink milk, milk absorbs polyphenols so that would cut down on any of the little effectiveness it might have anyways.

4/10/2009 2:20:10 PM

Not a fitness guru either, but I've been in training for a sprint triathlon (coming up next week in Raleigh). I've also dropped about 20 lb over the past 3 years by doing some of the following:

1) Conscious eating is a must. This is fuel for your workouts and your life, not just something to keep your stomach occupied. When I started thinking about food in a much different way - I'll honor my body with wholesome food- my association with food was much more positive. Cravings could be a sign you need certain nutrients.

Other things: eating at regular intervals keeps your blood sugar, and your potential bingeing, in check. Eat some food 1-2 hrs before working out to give your body energy to do so. Good quality protein (lean meat, legumes, nuts) and fiber- veggies, whole grain, fruit -help satiate the appetite.
I give in to cravings, of course, with something really awesome- a small amt. of dark chocolate or
maybe a Cosmic burrito if I'm drunk enough.

2) Add what I call 'incidental exercise'- physical activity you do in your daily life, not just working out. This might involve bike commuting, walking the dog, gardening, taking the stairs or taking that farthest parking space from Target.

3) Not sure about the 'fat-burning' zone theory. I've read research that recommends vigorous cardio exercise will burn the most calories- it's all about caloric output. For example, I've added sprinting workouts to my running- the dog loves them.

4) Light exercise will help with soreness. I usually do some yoga or a walk if I'm not really feeling motivated.

5) Exercise with friends! It is much more fun this way.

4/10/2009 2:26:21 PM

It's the guy's first week of working out and you're telling him to do interval training and crossfit? Come on now, realistic goals. Don't scare him out of the gym.

You're going to have to be gradual with these changes, unless you're just that determined. If you dramatically change your entire life style as far as becoming vegan with no cheat days, working out every day along with 2 hours of Interval CardioFit 2000, you're going to last about a week, if that. Gradually shifting your habits, going to the gym more, scheduling in cardio, and eating a little better each week will help you stick out your plans in the long term. That consistency is what loses your weight, not some new hippy diet or punishing work out program.

That said, I'd definitely follow the a hybrid plan similar to what Stimwalt posted. Working out and doing cardio will work your body from two angles and help burn the fat faster.

For how long to lift weights, I'd say to cut your stay at about 60 minutes. My friend (who got this from a referral with nutritionist PhD's) said that after about 60 minutes of working out, your body's energy will just cut out and you won't get anything from working out longer than that. Its different from person to person, but that's about the average. So basically, working out at the gym for 3 hours isn't going to do you any good.

Quote :

"I found this interesting. A study at James Madison compared two groups of overweight men and women, one group did strength training and the other group combined weight lifting with aerobics. The group that just did the weight lifting ended up losing a higher percentage of body fat."

So was it the first group or second group that lost the most? I've heard that programs that do 'aerobic weight lifting' are good because you get the heart raising from cardio and then also the post workout muscle burn from lifting.

Quote :

"5) Exercise with friends! It is much more fun this way."

Not to disagree, but definitely don't start depending on a system of friends to help get you to the gym. Eventually, those friends won't want to go to the gym that day and you won't go, then they won't want to go your next day and you don't feel like it, and by that point you're off schedule and your plan has gone to shit. You're going to have to go to the gym no matter what. If friends come along then great, but they won't always be there.

4/10/2009 2:58:48 PM

It was the group that did just the weight lifting that lost the most. I might look up the journal article tho when I get some free time, it would be interesting to see their methodology. I read this in Men's Health so can't really trust the media when they quote research as they tend to make generalizations.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 3:05 PM. Reason : .]

4/10/2009 3:04:38 PM

^ Agreed, but maybe you need better friends.

Dependable friends with regular workouts can be a great tool in accountability and motivation. Even if you work out with a partner once a week, the social aspect can keep the exercise fresh and interesting. Lifting partners can also watch you for technique and help in bench pressing.

I believe the social aspect of fitness is reflected in the amount of people who participate in sport leagues and clubs, and have training partners at the gym.

4/10/2009 3:10:20 PM

Quote :

"It's the guy's first week of working out and you're telling him to do interval training and crossfit?"

Crossfit is really only as hard as you make it. Pretty much every exercise is scalable by using less weight or making slight modifications. You just expect your times to be slow when you're first starting out.
Can't do pushups? Use your knees as the pivot point instead of your toes.
Can't do pull-ups? Jump into them instead of doing them hanging.
Can't squat with 95 lbs? Use 55 lbs.
...etc.

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 3:37 PM. Reason : l]

4/10/2009 3:24:14 PM

Quote :

"It's the guy's first week of working out and you're telling him to do interval training and crossfit? Come on now, realistic goals. Don't scare him out of the gym."

There's nothing really complex about interval training. In fact, many treadmills come with built in settings for it.

4/10/2009 3:51:29 PM

Hell, if you haven't been running in a long time, you should START with intervals. If you can't run 20 minutes straight (or whatever your goal is), then you can break it up into intervals, then progress from there. Seriously, most of the advice in here is pretty good, but the no interval thing is stupid talk. Same with the person that suggested low intensity/long duration for fat loss. That is the exact opposite of what you want to do. If you are doing 15-20 minutes of cardio + 30 minutes of weights a day that is more than enough, especially with a good diet. You need to go heavier weights.

If you want weight loss/strength/bulk and you are just starting out, I would suggest picking a weight that you can do 10 reps with and do two sets to begin with, and if you complete all reps on the second set, move up the next time you do the exercise, that will build a good all round foundation, and then you can tweak it later towards your goals(strength, size, or muscle endurance). Cardio should be high intesity, but low duration. 20 minutes of cardio a day is plenty if you push yourself hard.

For a diet, use something like Fitday and record everything you eat everyday, and be anal about it, especially the first few weeks. I would aim for a 40protein/30carb/30fat diet, it's simple and effective. Don't eat junk food, eat whole grains, fruit, vegetables, legumes, and leaner meats. Basically avoid overly processed foods and you'll be great, you don't need a fad diet to get great results. If you are 216 and 28% bodyfat, you could probably cut down to 1800 calories a day and be fine, depends on the intensity of your workouts, but I definitely wouldn't go above 2k calories.

4/10/2009 7:05:46 PM

I must have a different definition for intervals than you guys.

...

Yep, I do. What you're probably talking about is what most people starting out do naturally anyway.

I'll agree that the low intensity probably won't work for fat loss, since you need high intensity to get the heart rate up to a point where it starts burning those energy reserves.

Good idea on the food log, but the more reasonable goal right now is to stop eating out so many times a week. 1800 calories? That sounds crazy low and like the guy will be making a late night Taco Bell visit.q

4/10/2009 8:00:56 PM

I would say you should be doing 45-60 min of cardio daily (broken into 2 sessions), not just 15-20 min. Have the machine on the fat burning setting.

Lifting 30-45 min daily is great. Keep it up. DO NOT work out a part if it is still sore from the previous workout.

You can try green tea capsules if you wish. They won't harm you, but I don't know how much they will help. It is your money. Some people report great results, some people not.

Weigh yourself every other day first thing after getting up, before taking a leak or drinking water.

Do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach... you will burn a lot more fat that way. And then eat within 15-30 min of your cardio.

As for diet, that's a whole another can of worms. Before I post my advice, I would like to comment on some of the advice in here:

Quote :

"1. Immediately upon waking up, drink 8 ounces of cold water. "

That's great, and I would say make it 16 ounces. I always drink 2 glasses after waking up, and mine is actually 10 ounces, so that's 20 ounces. You haven't had any water for the past 6-10 hours, so you should drink 2 glasses.

Quote :

"2. Eat a big breakfast. Not huge - just big. A bowl of cereal, some toast, small glass of OJ. This is your fuel for the day."

That's good. Add 2 servings of fruit as well. And a protein source, such as a tall glass of milk (I guess the cereal is with some milk, but you need a bit more), or a large container of yogurt, or the BEST, 2 eggs (WITH the yolk; yolk is brain food) with some wholemeal bread. Add a handful of nuts as well.

Studies have time and again shown that people who have eggs for breakfast as opposed to cold cereal eat significantly fewer calories for the rest of the day.

Quote :

"I could also use some advice for better dinners that are cheap & quick. "

Your dinner needs to look like this:

Serving of protein (chicken, beef, fish, eggs, beans, lentils, etc)
1-2 servings of wholegrain carbs (brown rice, barley, wheat, quinoa, bread, brown pasta, etc)
2-3 servings of vegetables, steamed, sauteed, and/or raw (cucumbers, spinach, carrots, peas, zucchini, tomatoes, onions, sweet potatoes, eggplant, kale, etc)
1-2 servings of fresh or dried fruit

Quote :

"I've got breakfast down - special K + skim milk (though adding some toast or something would probably be a good idea - but what to put on it - honey? jelly?)"

Special K is bullshit. If you HAVE to eat cold cereal made from finely milled grains, at least eat one that is wholegrain with fiber. And whole grain cereal with milk is NOT a complete breakfast. You need to add some more protein (egg is best), and definitely a serving or two of fruit. And where is your fat? No fat means you will be hungry again much faster. See above.

If you are eating cereal for breakfast, there is no need for toast. Either one or the other, or a bit of each. Either way, make sure they are wholegrain. What you definitely need is more protein, and a couple of servings of fruit, and ideally, some nuts. On bread you can put peanut butter, some all-fruit jam (w/o HFCS/sugar), honey, a lil bit of pure butter, even olive oil, other nut butters, sesame seed spread, banana slices, apple slices, etc. Mix and match. Or make it savoury: tomato slices, cucumber, hummus, cheese, olives, spinach, avocado, etc.

Quote :

"I'm a big fan of almonds as a snack. Roma tomatoes are also quite tasty. om nom nom. "

Almonds are amazing as a snack. Tomatoes are good too, except they won't keep you full for a long time. It is best to have the two together. Have some nuts, and then have a serving of fruit. Or have some hard cheese with a serving of fruit. Or some cottage cheese with fruit.

Quote :

"^ you've got to be careful with any nuts. They're super fatty and its easy to eat too many. Make sure you portion out your servings and don't eat anymore than that."

While yes you have to be careful, studies have also shown that it is much much harder to get fat from nuts than it is from high fat meat, butter, etc. Nuts contain mostly mono-unsaturated fat, which is far less likely to lead to weight-gain. Enjoy nuts throughout the day, a few at a time. Or have them twice a day, a handful each time. And FAT != BAD. Depends on the type of fat.

Quote :

"Also, pretzels are tasty and aren't bad for you as long as you don't eat the whole bag, check the fat content and make sure its <= 1g per 28g serving."

BAD ADVICE. The biggest contributor to AMERICA'S fatness is WHITE TRASH. White trash includes white bread, white rice, white pasta, finely milled fiber-less cereals, cakes, cookies, pretzels, etc, as they are all made from white flour. FAT IS NOT THE ENEMY, as long as you are eating the right type of fat. Your ENEMY is refined fiber-less carbs. Almost every commercial packaged snack out there is made of that shit.

Some random advice:

Include extra virgin olive oil in your diet. Sprinkle it on your lunch and dinner. Or add it while sauteeing or roasting. It will make you healthy, and help with weight loss. If you don't like it, eat nuts and avocados.

Do not use corn oil or sunflower oil, if not using olive oil. Use canola oil.

Drink lots of water. My formula is easy: If I go pee, I drink about 300-400 ml after that. And then I have to pee again in about 2 hours, so I drink again. That's the easiest formula to follow to get enough water. Make sure you drink during working out as well, otherwise you will be dehydrated.

Have a tall glass of pure fruit juice (red grape is best) within 15 minutes of finishing weight training. Other than that, you shouldn't be having much simple sugars at other time of the day, except for some at breakfast.

Instead of 3 big meals, have 1 big meal (breakfast) and 4-5 small meals. Breakfast is most important. See above for lots of advice I gave. Ideally, you should eat some porridge (barley, oats, wheat, etc) and 2 eggs. In the porridge, add some honey, fresh fruit, milk, nuts, seeds, teaspoon of olive oil, etc. Also eat a piece of fruit (other than the fruit in the porridge), which is far better than drinking a glass of juice. Eat a few nuts if you wish. Drink 2 glasses of water.

For more of my advice on nutrition, I direct you to my thread:

message_topic.aspx?topic=453117

And I quote specific advice that is useful here:

4/10/2009 9:55:40 PM

For more of my advice on nutrition, I direct you to my thread:

message_topic.aspx?topic=453117

And I quote specific advice that is useful here:

For weight loss:

Quote :

"You need: Adequate water intake: - Without enough water, your metabolism slows down, digestion takes longer, and weight loss suffers. Cardiovascular exercise: - For burning about 500-1000 extra calories per week, leading to weight loss. For best results, do exercise first thing in the morning, on an empty stomach, so as to maximize loss of fat. - For building aerobic endurance (stronger lungs, heart, and blood vessels). Resistance exercise: - For increasing maintaining muscle mass, which in turn will lead to an increase in your resting metabolic rate, meaning, you will burn more calories by just being alive, than you do now. - Also leads to burning of calories during lifting of weights, leading to further weight loss. - For increasing muscular endurance and strength (stronger skeletal muscles). Calorie restriction: - Depending on your current weight and caloric intake, cut down daily calories by about 200-500. - Do not eat anything at least 3 hours before going to sleep. Increased food intake frequency: - Although cutting total daily food intake, increase intake frequency. Eat smaller more frequent meals and snacks throughout the day. Three main meals and three smaller snacks is ideal. Do not gorge at any one sitting, and do not skip meals. Breakfast: - I have this separately because breakfast is the most important meal of the day. People who eat breakfast have been shown to be consistently healthier, slimmer, and more intelligent, in several reputable studies, than people who skip it. Eat a nutritious (see guidelines below) sizable breakfast. Proper diet: (MOST important) - DRINK LOTS OF WATER. THERE IS NO WEIGHT LOSS WITHOUT ADEQUATE WATER. - This is a whole another topic, but I suspect, you don't eat a healthy diet like the vast majority of the population. But, here are some brief pointers: Minimize saturated, polyunsaturated, and [partially] hydrogenated fats (i.e., animal fats, vegetable oils, butter/margarine, full-fat dairy products, and junk food), refined carbohydrates (WHITE TRASH), simple sugars, and artificial additives, preferably none of any of those poisons. Increase intake of fiber, monounsaturated fat (olive oil, canola oil, avocados, nuts), complex whole-grain carbohydrates, skimmed dairy products, fruits and vegetables, beans, and seafood. - As insurance, take a good quality multivitamin and mineral supplement daily"

On a proper diet:

Quote :

"you need to get adequate: - water - fiber, to keep your digestive system healthy, and for a healthy heart (get both soluble and insoluble fiber) - complex whole grain carbohydrates for energy (also for some vitamins and minerals) - fruits, vegetables and legumes, for fiber, vitamins, and "phytonutrients" (avoid lettuce and other useless vegetables, unless your lettuce is deeply colored) - protein, to build and maintain muscle (from lean animal sources, beans, lentils, whole grains) - seafood (be careful of contamination with mercury or other toxic metals; eat small oily fish) - omega 3 fatty acids, to keep your brain working (preferably from fish, but flax seeds are also a good source) - monounsaturated fats, from olive oil, canola oil, avocados - nuts, for minerals and good fat, also protein and fiber - other herbs, spices, and plants known for their healthful properties, such as tea, ginger, onions, garlic, mint, turmeric, rosemary... - skim/low fat dairy products for calcium and protein (try yogurt instead of milk; it is healthier because of the healthy bacteria in it) you need to avoid: - trans fatty acids (that means 99% of snack foods) - refined carbohydrates and simple sugars (white bread, pasta, potatoes, rice, desserts...) - bad fats (saturated fats and trans fatty acids, i.e., animal fat, butter, margarine, coconut oil, and shortening) - polyunsaturated fats (they are not so healthy, and actually harmful in excess. sources are corn oil, sunflower oil, safflower oil) - artificial flavors, colors, preservatives... - pesticide, hormone, and toxic metal laden foods, bioengineered foods - any and all carbonated beverages - excessive alcohol (i.e., never ever even come close to getting drunk... only one drink a day max) simple enough?"

4/10/2009 9:56:59 PM

If it wasn't obvious from my 2 posts:

1) Eat fruits and vegetables with skins on. Yeah, I know banana skins are inedible, don't tell me that.

2) Try to avoid as much as possible anything made from flour, i.e., bread and cold cereals (yes, I am talking about wholegrain flour here... anything made from "white trash" is automatically out). Pasta is ok, because pasta is made from a different type of wheat and it digests slowly (and again, eat wholewheat pasta). You need to be eating whole intact grains or cracked grains (both as savoury and sweet dishes, for breakfast, lunch, dinner). This means brown rice, whole barley, whole oats, whole wheat berries, spelt, kamut, quinoa, amaranth, steel cut oats, whole rolled oats, cracked wheat, and other broken grains (broken, not pulverized). If you do like bread, get some nice chewy grainy bread, where you can see bits of grains, seeds, etc. And of course, make sure it is made with wholegrain flour only. And if you like cold cereals, get some nice ones. See my linked thread for advice on choosing cereals, and specific brand names. Also include wheat bran and oat bran into your diet. Wheat bran can be sprinkled into soup, onto sandwiches, etc. Oat bran can be consumed as a hot porridge and tastes nice.

3) Also, if you have never had much fiber, increase your fiber intake slowly, over a period of a month or so, otherwise it will cause bloating, gas, and diarrhea.

P.S. Get all your grains, flours, baking mixes, beans, etc from http://www.bobsredmill.com (widely available in grocery stores). They even make whole grain cookie, cake, and brownie mixes!!! And they taste amazing.

For breakfast, I have made porridge out of a lot of grains, including wheat, spelt, oats, barley, rice, and amaranth. For the first time bought whole rye a few days ago, and made porridge out of it a couple of minutes ago, and am eating it now. You know rye, right? they make those Swedish and German crackers out of them. I was scared as a sweet porridge it wouldn't taste good. I am blown away, to be honest. It is the best tasting porridge I have ever had. Just cracked rye, milk, olive oil, and honey. I am out of bananas, otherwise I always add sliced banana to my porridge (after cooking). You can also add raisins, prunes, apples, pear, berries, nuts, seeds, etc. So now, I am gonna stock up on Bob's Red Mill Cracked Rye. It is pretty nutritious as well:

12.5 grams protein/100 grams
22 grams fiber/100 grams <-------- way higher than wheat, oats, and barley

Next grain I want to try is teff. It is highly nutritious.



[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 11:28 PM. Reason : ]

4/10/2009 10:59:18 PM

What would be a good and healthy late night snack cause i'm hongry?

[Edited on April 10, 2009 at 11:26 PM. Reason : asdf]

4/10/2009 11:26:41 PM

I edited my post above, so make sure to check it out.

late night snacks:

- handful of nuts + fresh/dry fruit
- hard/semi-soft cheese + fresh/dry fruit
- cottage cheese + fresh/dry fruit
- pot of yogurt + fresh/dry fruit (not those sweetened ones)
- glass of milk + fresh/dry fruit
- porridge made from whole grains + milk/yogurt
- tall glass of hot chocolate (made from cocoa powder, not those pre-made mixes)

You will notice I have a protein source, some fat, and some carbs/fiber. You can make a sandwich also, just make sure it is healthy, made with good bread (see my last post for advice on carbs). Good fillings include:

- banana/apple/etc + nut butter
- honey + nut butter
- all-fruit jam/spread + nut butter
- tomato + cucumber + onion + olives + hummus
- tomato + cucumber + onion + olives + cheese (feta, cheddar, halloumi, etc)

A snack like that 2-3 hours before you go to sleep can help with weight loss, as it will increase your metabolism, and make sure you are not starving in the morning. It will also provide your body with protein it needs at night to recover and repair the mini-tears in muscle induced by lifting.

In fact, I was going to say before you asked for late night snacks, that the OP can make it a habit to have a tall mug of hot chocolate an hour or so before going to bed everyday:

- 300 ml of skim/2% milk
- 2-3 heaped teaspoons of pure cocoa powder
- sugar/honey to sweeten
- dash of cinnamon

Cocoa has been shown to help with fat loss, as well as decrease blood pressure. And it is super healthy, healthier than all fruits and vegetables out there (anti-oxidant activity).



Important tips:

- ELIMINATE HFCS from your diet as much as possible

- If you are not taking a multi, you might not be getting enough iron. Eat a source of vitamin C with every meal/snack, to absorb iron from the food, esp from plant iron sources, such as spinach, nuts, beans, etc.

4/10/2009 11:44:45 PM

I didn't read everything, but I generally agree with OEP. This one thing I do have to pick at:

Quote :

"Weigh yourself every other day first thing after getting up, before taking a leak or drinking water."

I say you should take a leak and take a dump before weighing if you need to do so. I think it's more accurate that way. Your body has 8 hours during sleep to push fluids to the point that they're ready to be expelled. I don't see the point in weighing yourself knowing that you're about to expel them. They certainly aren't fat and therefore shouldn't count for or against your goals.

4/11/2009 12:18:21 AM

^ I see your point. In the end, it doesn't matter too much as long as you are consistent. Either weigh yourself before urinating in the morning every time, or after. Don't mix it up.

My breakfast from an hour ago:

- Cracked rye porridge with milk, olive oil, honey
- Two fried eggs (in sesame oil) with a small wholewheat pita bread
- An orange
- 500 ml water

I would have had another serving of fruit, but I am out of fruit.

Protein: 30 grams
Fat: 30 grams
Fiber: 20 grams

I don't think I will be hungry any time soon!

4/11/2009 1:14:24 AM

great thread

4/11/2009 1:17:33 AM

you can lose weight pretty damned fast if you're really serious about it

I lost 15 pounds in < a month by eating nothing but a bowl of cereal in the morning and a bowl of soup and a tuna sandwich in the evening, and drinking nothing but diet soda

and going for a run before the evening meal

it certainly sucked, though

4/11/2009 1:24:03 AM

I would love to stay on a multivitamin daily, but if I take on a cosistant basis, the constipation comes on.

What is it the formula that is causing this? Is it cellulose?

4/11/2009 1:52:33 AM

iron is known to cause constipation... you might be more susceptible to it than others.

try a multi without iron, or very low iron (< 5 mg).

4/11/2009 1:55:38 AM

OEP has been really spot on in this thread, great contributions and full of myth-dispelling facts about nutrition. good going typing all that out

4/11/2009 3:24:59 PM

^ not quite

Quote :

"If you are not taking a multi, you might not be getting enough iron. Eat a source of vitamin C with every meal/snack, to absorb iron from the food, esp from plant iron sources, such as spinach, nuts, beans, etc."

this is very bad advice for a man. Men should NEVER take iron supplements unless there is something seriously medically wrong with them.

In fact, if anything, men should try to LOWER their iron consumption! I don't know if the rules are different for serious body builders, but this guy's obviously not in that category and neither are 99.99% of men

[Edited on April 11, 2009 at 3:59 PM. Reason : s]

4/11/2009 3:31:41 PM

Yeah, I can't believe he wrote all that, way to much time on his hands. Overall though, it can be summed up as.... don't eat processed foods, and eat your fruits and vegetables.


Also, I wouldn't weigh yourself everyday, if ever. At most I would weigh every week on the same day, better yet every 2 or 3 weeks. People get discouraged if they track their weight everyday. Your body will fluctuate, not to mention weight has nothing to do with health or physical appearance. Best way to track is doing BF% and taking pictures of yourself. If you hit the weights hard, and have never lifted before, you probably won't lose very much weight at first but you will lower your BF% fairly quickly.

4/11/2009 3:38:07 PM

^^^ thanks.

^^ everybody needs a certain amount of iron. the amounts are different for men, women, children, pregnant women, etc. if you don't have enough iron, that is bad, because that means less oxygen getting to your cells, and that results in lethargy, tiredeness, etc.

if you get too much iron, that is bad as well, as in higher amounts it acts as an oxidant, leading to the creation of oxygen free-radical species, which leads to lifestyle diseases and aging.

everybody gets different amounts of iron from their diet. some get enough, some not. if you are a vegetarian, you are probably not getting enough, for 2 reasons:

1) plant foods are lower in iron than red meat
2) the iron in plant foods is tightly bound, making it less bioavailable. vitamin C consumption at the same time as an iron-rich food makes the iron available for absorption from plant foods.

now i don't know what you are taking issue with. everybody should measure their own iron consumption and then decide whether to take any supplements or not. get a blood test to measure your hgb levels, and then act accordingly.

Quote :

"In fact, if anything, men should try to LOWER their iron consumption as much as possible."

i don't get this. "as much as possible"? that would be ZERO. are you saying men should consume as little iron as possible? and ideally none? now that's just wrong. men need 8-10 mg daily, and you have to get it from somewhere. please elaborate.

Quote :

"Yeah, I can't believe he wrote all that, way to much time on his hands. Overall though, it can be summed up as.... don't eat processed foods, and eat your fruits and vegetables."

haha, actually i don't have too much time... got lots of shit to do in the next few days! it is just that there are certain things in life that really get my gears going, and nutrition is one of them, esp teaching others about nutrition.

but yes, "don't eat processed foods, and eat your fruits and vegetables."

Quote :

"Also, I wouldn't weigh yourself everyday, if ever. At most I would weigh every week on the same day"

I agree with that. Other users said everyday, I said every other day, but I was still wrong.

4/11/2009 4:03:10 PM

Really solid thread

4/11/2009 4:32:25 PM

eat a lot of eggs

4/11/2009 5:06:11 PM

Quote :

"this is very bad advice for a man. Men should NEVER take iron supplements unless there is something seriously medically wrong with them. In fact, if anything, men should try to LOWER their iron consumption! I don't know if the rules are different for serious body builders, but this guy's obviously not in that category and neither are 99.99% of men"

i've always worried about this. i always have low iron levels, i can only donate blood about half of the times i try because i don't pass the iron test. i can tell when it is very low because i feel tired and lethargic, i don't want to take supplements because i know that too much iron isn't good. generally when i start feeling like this i eat an iron rich diet for a few days and feel better. with my new diet i have cut out most beef and red meat and am wondering if there are any supplements that won't over do it or if i can get enough from beans and such.

oh, and to the OP: one thing that has helped me be successful is telling everyone i can about my intentions so i feel accountable to everyone to be successful. feel free to post in my weight loss thread to track your progress: http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=557560

[Edited on April 11, 2009 at 5:13 PM. Reason : .]

4/11/2009 5:08:58 PM

Quote :

"i don't get this. "as much as possible"? that would be ZERO. are you saying men should consume as little iron as possible? and ideally none? now that's just wrong. men need 8-10 mg daily, and you have to get it from somewhere. please elaborate."

I actually edited my statement before you replied, because I figured you would nitpick that. Here's the point - men do NOT need to supplement their iron consumption. I was referring to "normal" people when I said they should try to reduce iron consumption as much as possible, because most normal men wouldn't be able to sustainably take their iron consumption to zero.

If you look online at the information regarding men and iron, the articles are overwhelmingly cautionary against the consumption of iron by men.

I'm sorry - you have posted some good general information about health in this thread, but you were dead wrong on this issue and I'm actually very surprised that you would have recommended that a man make an effort to increase iron consumption.

[Edited on April 11, 2009 at 5:38 PM. Reason : s]

4/11/2009 5:38:22 PM

I still don't know what you are trying to say. Where did I say men should try to increase their iron consumption? I NEVER said that. I said everybody should consume enough iron. If you are consuming lower than required, consume more. If you are consuming more than required, reduce it. I also said that if you are a vegetarian, you MIGHT not be getting enough iron, and in that case, you should get your blood tested, and then act accordingly.

But you are the one making blanket statements, saying "normal" people should try to reduce their consumption as much as possible. What does "normal" mean anyway? Aren't vegetarians normal? Aren't vegans normal? Aren't those who eat fish but not red meat normal? You are obviously using "normal" in a medical sense, as you said in an earlier post. All those people are "normal", and they might not be getting enough iron. Don't supplement on your own (with iron); get your blood checked.

Actually no, you are wrong. If someone is getting 10 mg daily from food, why should s/he reduce his/her consumption as much as possible? That's flat out wrong. You are basically implying that "normal" people (i.e., most people) get a lot more iron in their diet than they need. Is that true? I don't know. How do you know? Do you have any study showing how much iron people consume, and if they are getting too much?

In conclusion:

- I NEVER said men should make an effort to increase iron consumption.
- You DID and DO continue to say that "normal" people (which is most people) should reduce their iron consumption AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. And that's wrong. (unless there is some study showing that most people consume a lot more than the body needs)


[Edited on April 11, 2009 at 6:02 PM. Reason : ]

4/11/2009 5:58:33 PM

Quote :

"If you are not taking a multi, you might not be getting enough iron. Eat a source of vitamin C with every meal/snack, to absorb iron from the food, esp from plant iron sources, such as spinach, nuts, beans, etc."

Unless he has some sort of medical condition or a very oddball diet, a man should NOT seek out iron. He should definitely not be taking a supplement that contains iron. In fact, most of the main supplement pills designed for men do not even contain iron! Hmmm... I wonder why that would be??

Quote :

"You are basically implying that "normal" people (i.e., most people) get a lot more iron in their diet than they need. Is that true? I don't know. How do you know?"

Well, lets just say that I took the hint from the fact that the overwhelming majority of the articles out there that talk about testing iron levels recommend that men get tested to make sure that they don't have too much iron.

Quote :

"You DID and DO continue to say that "normal" people (which is most people) should reduce their iron consumption AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. And that's wrong."

I will cede that "as much as possible" is a mis-statement in that I did not add the qualification that it would be very difficult to sustainably take iron consumption to zero.... and anyway, like I said, I edited it out even before your reply to try to avoid you nitpicking this minor point rather than the larger point which is that men overall consume far too much iron as it is, without trying to seek it out.

Here's the point that you're trying to avoid - men do NOT need to supplement their iron consumption. And no one should do what you did and generally recommend that they do so. Think about it; why would you specifically mention iron rather than one of vitamins or minerals that people really do have deficiencies in? Because you were recommending it, plain and simple.

I'm sorry - you have posted some good general information about health in this thread, but you were dead wrong on this issue and I'm actually very surprised that you would have recommended that a man make an effort to increase iron consumption.

What's even more depressing is that you continue to argue the point and spread this misinformation without regard for any men who might read this and take your advice to seek out sources of iron. Why? Just so you can win on the internet?


---- EDIT ----

In any event, I'm done with this particular argument. I am pretty sure that you realize your error, but are pulling a TWW and nitpick arguing (thats ok, I do it too, just not over false medical information that could hurt someone).

I'm actually not speaking to you with these posts, but to any other men that read this. They can decide for themselves whether or not they should make an effort to try to increase their iron consumption, in the way that you described - by either taking a supplement or eating foods in combinations that maximize iron absorption into the bloodstream. I recommend that men should instead try to lower their iron levels.

[Edited on April 11, 2009 at 6:23 PM. Reason : s]

4/11/2009 6:07:55 PM

About being vegetarian and not getting enough iron:

I acknowledge it's something to be concerned about, and if I was trying to do more serious endurance training (read: 10k or Olympic triathlon level) I might take a women's multi to be sure I'm covering my bases. Generally, though, I don't worry about it, because my iron levels come back normal at my yearly physical ( I've asked them to test this in case).

If you're a lacto-ovo vegetarian and eating what you should to get iron (dark leafy greens, etc.) it's not impossible.

4/11/2009 7:05:37 PM

Quote :

"[quote] "Also, pretzels are tasty and aren't bad for you as long as you don't eat the whole bag, check the fat content and make sure its <= 1g per 28g serving." BAD ADVICE. The biggest contributor to AMERICA'S fatness is WHITE TRASH. White trash includes white bread, white rice, white pasta, finely milled fiber-less cereals, cakes, cookies, pretzels, etc, as they are all made from white flour. FAT IS NOT THE ENEMY, as long as you are eating the right type of fat. Your ENEMY is refined fiber-less carbs. Almost every commercial packaged snack out there is made of that shit."

Dude, seriously? Read the post I was quoting. He's trying to eat healthier, not be a fucking iron man. All your nutrition crap might be spot on, but its useless to the every day joe. Your average person isn't going to be able to switch automatically from junk food to completely bland shit. Pretzels are 10 times better than the jumbo bag of doritoes he might be eating instead.

4/12/2009 12:24:41 AM

I read the post you quoted. He said "What are some good snack ideas?" Pretzels are a bad snack idea. He asked for something, and you are supposed to give it to him.

He didn't say "What are some good snack ideas? Oh and, I am going to make a half-assed effort, because right now I am addicted to Doritos, so don't give me healthy stuff, just stuff better than Doritos".

I didn't see that. Why are you assuming on his behalf (that he eats Doritos)?

"Useless to the every day joe"?

"completely bland shit"?

You have no fucking clue, do you?

4/12/2009 1:03:04 AM

i handful of baby carrots are my snack food, sooo tasty

4/12/2009 1:13:08 AM

0EPII1, you talk about how it's important to eat grains that are whole instead of "pulverized." does post brand shredded wheat cereal count as whole? I eat the plain kind where the only ingredient is whole grain wheat. but it seems like it's pounded into those little squares so it may not be as good as a truly whole grain.

4/12/2009 1:19:33 AM

see next page

4/12/2009 4:07:12 AM

whoops... one more post!

4/12/2009 4:08:48 AM