http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1417911.html

Quote :

"Raleigh getting eight sites to plug in hybrid cars 2/25/2009 David Bracken, The News & Observer, Raleigh, N.C. Feb. 25, 2009 The city plans to install eight plug-in stations for hybrid-electric vehicles in coming months under a program designed to prepare for a time when a sizable number of people are driving electric cars. Raleigh is one of three U.S. cities, along with Indianapolis and Portland, Ore., taking part in Project Get Ready, which was initiated by the Rocky Mountain Institute, a Colorado-based nonprofit that encourages efficient use of natural resources. Mayor Charles Meeker announced the program Tuesday. He said drivers will be able to use their credit cards to access the stations and pay about 2.5 cents per mile to recharge their vehicles. Although hybrid-electric vehicles are not currently being produced in significant numbers, President Barack Obama wants to add a million plug-in cars to the country's roads by 2015. Several automakers plan to release electric plug-in and hybrid-electric models next year. Raleigh is partnering with Progress Energy and Advanced Energy, a local nonprofit, to install the stations. Progress Energy will pay for the stations, while Raleigh will pay for the cost of installation on city property. Meeker said most of the initial stations will be located in the city's parking garages downtown and near N.C. State University. Private garages also are being considered as possible locations. Installing a plug-in station costs between $1,000 and $4,000, Meeker said."

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 9:29 AM. Reason : omar: added link]

2/26/2009 8:23:37 AM

i don't know a whole lot about hybrids work, so i have a couple of questions.

do different hybrids not get different mileage? how are they going to charge you per mile if his car gets 5 miles per volt or whatever and hers gets 10?

does it not take a good while to charge them? are you supposed to go hang out at the station for 30 minutes while it charges? can you not just plug it into an outlet at home?

2/26/2009 8:29:25 AM

there's gonna be alot of smug in Raleigh.

2/26/2009 8:35:46 AM

Quote :

"EIGHT NEW SIGHTS"

2/26/2009 8:55:16 AM

i think the idea is go to school/work/someplace downtown and charge your car while you are otherwise occupied, instead of waiting onsite...

2/26/2009 9:08:46 AM

Quote :

"does it not take a good while to charge them?"

on a 240 line it still takes a while. think of it as a top off station.

meeker has NO idea what he's saying, as he rarely ever does.

Quote :

"are you supposed to go hang out at the station for 30 minutes while it charges?"

sometimes you say things that make me think you are illiterate.

since the stations are located downtown in/near public garages, if you have business there you can plug in and top off. if you park there the whole day and don't live very far, then yes, it most likely will charge completely.

Quote :

"can you not just plug it into an outlet at home?"

yes, plug in hybrids are supposed to be charged wherever there is an outlet. typically they can use 240 or 120 volt systems, the latter taking longer. as the article states, they are located downtown, so no it's not at home.

2/26/2009 9:12:23 AM

We installed some charging stations here at work. We have one PHEV at the moment.

2/26/2009 9:24:22 AM

Quote :

"how are they going to charge you per mile if his car gets 5 miles per volt or whatever and hers gets 10?"

because Progress Energy does not care what mileage a car gets. a kWh is a kWh.

2/26/2009 9:35:56 AM

^^^in case you missed it, i did say

Quote :

"i don't know a whole lot about how hybrids work, so i have a couple of questions."

so i was asking fucking questions. you didn't have to be an asshole about it. i admitted i don't know what the deal is with hybrids. is that that hard to understand? what's wrong with trying to learn?

and, please, if i could have gone about asking for further explanation in a better way, enlighten me.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 9:56 AM. Reason : jackass]

2/26/2009 9:51:01 AM

^ HAHA, nice.

I would love an electric. I cant imagine I would ever need to "top off" at work or when I am out as the mileage is more than enough for me to drive around all day/night and charge while I am sleeping at home.

I would LOVE to "fill up" for $10 and not have the emissions as my current car.

2/26/2009 12:26:23 PM

still emissions from the coal plant that produces the energy (our grid is 50% coal fired)

2/26/2009 12:30:38 PM

Quote :

"because Progress Energy does not care what mileage a car gets. a kWh is a kWh."

which is why it makes more sense to charge per kWh, instead of per mile.

2/26/2009 12:31:08 PM

^ which is being produced/used by something and is NOT as dirty as hundreds of thousands of automobiles with crappy emmissions / not as high standards as the plant.

2/26/2009 12:32:05 PM

We would need more nuclear plants and better grids if this is where the future is.

2/26/2009 12:33:53 PM

they're fine for these short distances for a few personal users but our economy is largely supplied via long distance trucking/shipping etc, unless we're also going to start buying/producing locally(within charging distance) this isn't going to work....drive for 4hrs just to charge for 20, not going to happen. Once hydrogen storage/extraction becomes more efficient/safer we can begin investing in the capital to make it happen & hydrogen will the be saving grace of the gasoline car, similar to the gasoline car being the saving grace of the horse

can't we invest in railroad infrastructure? fuck trucking

2/26/2009 12:35:49 PM

^ we drive 4 hours now and stop for 10 minutes at the gas station. You act like 10 minutes means we should not be more responsible. this is funny.

the thought that I would never have to go to a gas station EVER unless I was traveling long distance is amazing to me.

also, you are mixing commercial into a conversation that should be about personal travel. Nobody said there should be transfer trucks running on electric. this is a way to reduce what we are currently doing, not end the gas truck.

and yes, there should be more trains.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason : erg]

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 12:40 PM. Reason : rth]

2/26/2009 12:38:29 PM

Quote :

"we drive 4 hours now and stop for 10 minutes at the gas station"

it would take 10 minutes to fill up on hydrogen too, hence a better replacement for gas, but still out of reach

and yea, ignore my commerical ranting

the more and more efficient cars become, the more and more gas we'll use....we need to stop expanding linearly and start moving forward, a reduction in consumption not an increase in efficiency is what we actually need...god i'm ranting again...ignore me

2/26/2009 12:53:17 PM

as our cities grow becuase our population grows... as we earn more and travel more... we are going to travel more. You can have your cake and eat it too... be more efficient now AND start implementing new technology which I am proud of Raleigh for starting... very proud.

2/26/2009 12:58:33 PM

This is dumb! Why not put in hydrogen Shell stations like Cali so we can start driving the new badass honda hydrogen fuel cell car. It takes just as long to fill it with liquid hydrogen as it does to fill your car with petrol. And its only emission is water. And unlike hybrid cars, it has no battery because it has its own mini power plant.

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 1:02 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2009 1:00:47 PM

still takes too much other sources of energy to extract/store hydrogen, there is so much capital that we'd need in place to make hydrogen work, it's insane

something needs to happen though

2/26/2009 1:04:16 PM

Hydrogen already works and is implemented through certain parts of California.

and the process of prepping the hydrogen is no more complex then the process of petrol except its far less damaging to the environment.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 1:06 PM. Reason : asdf]

2/26/2009 1:05:22 PM

hydrogen is the most reactive element

that means that it takes the most work to extract it either through electrolysis (where is the energy to do this) or decomposing methane (with a shitload of CO2 as a byproduct)

and its energy density is atrocious

hydrogen is not the answer at all

2/26/2009 1:10:09 PM

16 hour recharges is?

2/26/2009 1:10:42 PM

i didnt say that it was

edit: we arent going to be able do what we can do with gasoline (or diesel) with any other fuel source

it is going to take a fundamental shift in culture, and its going to be painful

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 1:14 PM. Reason : 

2/26/2009 1:12:47 PM

Quote :

"and the process of prepping the hydrogen is no more complex then the process of petrol except its far less damaging to the environment"

yes, im not arguing that, we don't have the infrastructure to take hydrogen nationally/globally, who is going to pay for this....the whole gas system is so overwhelming and widespread, we can't just flush the gas out and use those pumps for hydrogen

2/26/2009 1:13:22 PM

Quote :

"hundreds of thousands of automobiles with crappy emmissions "

dude, the emissions of a modern car are approaching negligable.

2/26/2009 1:23:10 PM

Quote :

"do different hybrids not get different mileage? how are they going to charge you per mile if his car gets 5 miles per volt or whatever and hers gets 10?"

This is how I filled in the blanks:

Quote :

"Mayor Charles Meeker announced the program Tuesday. He said drivers will be able to use their credit cards to access the stations. Using an average mileage rate, the typical hybrid driver would expect to and pay about 2.5 cents per mile to recharge their vehicles. "

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 1:27 PM. Reason : -]

2/26/2009 1:26:47 PM

Quote :

"Hydrogen already works and is implemented through certain parts of California."

At what price? Hydrogen is not an input, it isn't pumped out of the ground. You must consume other fuels to get it. And unless that is nuclear, using hydrogen will emit more CO2 than just getting a comparable diesel engine.

A fuel efficient gasoline engine kicks the crap out of a hydrogen car. An diesel is even better.

2/26/2009 1:32:46 PM

Quote :

"He said drivers will be able to use their credit cards to access the stations and pay about 2.5 cents per mile to recharge their vehicles."

once large enough/comfortable hybrids become cheaper/more commoditized, i'm definitely getting one..

2/26/2009 1:35:15 PM

my point wasn't to roll this out globally over night...but if there are going to be projects like this where they set up a few sites...why not skip the whole fail of hybrid and setup hydrogen.

2/26/2009 2:09:24 PM

Quote :

"We would need more nuclear plants and better grids if this is where the future is."

You sir, are a man with a plan. I can't wait until the first shovel hits the dirt in Levy County to build the two new units. Progress will immediately be worth a whole lot more and my 401(k) will go up, up, up. It is more than likely South Texas will get the first new units though. Damn pushy Toshiba.

^If the hybrid car fails it will be because Bolivia is hording all the lithium.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 2:26 PM. Reason : df]

2/26/2009 2:21:52 PM

High levels of smug reported

2/26/2009 4:03:34 PM

^ "SMOG", maybe?

2/26/2009 4:14:39 PM

Quote :

"^ "SMOG", maybe?"

No...

2/26/2009 4:21:44 PM

Quote :

"We would need more nuclear plants and better grids if this is where the future is."

Isn't Obama trying to get us on a smartgrid?

2/26/2009 4:32:40 PM

THEDUKE,

yes, that is true... that is why I was talking specifically about the hundreds of thousands of older cars with shitty emmission, not ALL Cars.

2/26/2009 4:37:18 PM

Quote :

"^If the hybrid car fails it will be because Bolivia is hording all the lithium. "

you know there is a huge lithium mine near gastonia?

2/26/2009 4:45:41 PM

Quote :

"still emissions from the coal plant that produces the energy (our grid is 50% coal fired)"

a coal fired plant is MUCH more efficient than an internal combustion engine.

2/26/2009 4:51:09 PM

^ I agree with Smath

2/26/2009 4:55:32 PM

^you are one stupid mother fucker. even if you were talking about older cars, your point was still a fail. obviously those older cars aren't being made any more.

and this:

Quote :

"I would LOVE to "fill up" for $10 and not have the emissions as my current car."

really? do you honestly believe your precious saab has a larger environmental footprint than a plug in or hybrid electric? know anything about nickel mines? power plant emissions? anything except being a moron?

it's clear by your comments in here that you are no more informed than any of the other idiots out there blindly following the propaganda. you're only concerned with and focused on the possibility of saving yourself some money and the false feel good of "reducing" tailpipe emissions. in reality, you're prepared to purchase a product that has a very high potential to be on the order of many times worse than anything we've seen with petrol vehicles in terms of overall environmental impact.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 5:04 PM. Reason : BTW, i assume these power stations will be available for use by diesel vehicles as well, right?]

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 5:06 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2009 5:02:13 PM

Quote :

"a coal fired plant is MUCH more efficient than an internal combustion engine."

i know that

i also know that coal fire emissions are orders of magnitudes worse than your car

last time i checked, there wasnt any mercury in my gasoline

http://www.ornl.gov/info/ornlreview/rev26-34/text/colmain.html

just a bit about the heavy metals in ash, and even though that most of it is captured, its still just stored in open air ponds, remember what happened in tn a few weeks ago?

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 5:38 PM. Reason : 

2/26/2009 5:25:42 PM

don't forget about all the oil consumed just shipping the raw materials/goods to manufacture a hybrid car. They are literally pieced together from across the globe.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 6:13 PM. Reason : .]

2/26/2009 6:13:37 PM

Quote :

"yes, that is true... that is why I was talking specifically about the hundreds of thousands of older cars with shitty emmission, not ALL Cars. "

It still doesn't matter. The number of vehicles that are old enough to be significant polluters (and they ARE significant...as in orders of magnitude worse than a modern car) is relatively small, and there are basically two varieties of them:

1. Classic cars owned by collecters that are driven a few miles once every week or two (i.e., inconsequential due to the small amount that they are driven, not to mention the relatively small number of them)

2. Beaters that are dying out quickly and not being fixed.

In other words, it's not that big of a problem anymore, and what's left will solve itself.


There are reasons that hybrids are attractive, but minimizing air pollution is way down the list.

2/26/2009 6:16:40 PM

TWW GARAGE SWOOPS IN FOR THE KILL

Duke, Aficionado and BBR for the win

2/26/2009 6:56:27 PM

Hypothetical Situation:
What if we could magically replace every internal combustion engine in every vehicle with a electric motor and 100lbs of batteries and replace every gas station with charging stations. Would this be a good thing or bad? What happens in 20 years when all of those vehicles are rotting in a junkyard somewhere, oozing heavy metals everywhere?

2/26/2009 7:23:57 PM

the first set of batteries will be gone long before that 20 year mark

2/26/2009 8:02:36 PM

^^ The batteries are valuable. So are junk cars. Metal, in general, is almost always recycled. It is cheaper to make cars/batteries from old cars/batteries than it is to move a mountain to get at fresh ore.

But, to answer your question, it would be a bad thing. An electric car is a poor substitute for a modern petrol car. And the pollution effects are already too minor in 95% of the country to worry either way (coal vs. gasoline).

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 9:04 PM. Reason : .,.]

2/26/2009 9:02:59 PM

china opens a new coal-fired power plant--what, every week? people are fighting the wrong battle...

2/26/2009 9:43:36 PM

^ Yes, but they are mini-plants. Afterall, China is a new energy market. After a few decades things will settle down and the engineers figure out where everything is going to go, most of those 40% efficiency coal fired plants will be driven out of business by a few gigantic 65% efficiency coal-fired power plants, which are even more efficient still because they will be set up to recycle the waste heat to other uses.

2/26/2009 11:42:34 PM

http://www.worktruckonline.com/News/Story/2008/05/Port-of-Los-Angeles-SCAQMD-Roll-Out-Heavy-Duty-Electric-Truck.aspx?interstitial=1

shorthaul yes, but the "truck" problem is getting worked on too

2/26/2009 11:52:56 PM