I’m looking to gain weight in the form of lean muscle mass. I’ve never been able to put on weight before, currently 6’-1” and 155lbs. I lift weights 3 times a week and play basketball or racquetball 1 or 2 nights a week.

I’ve been doing research and I have seen recommended protein intakes between .75 and 1.5 times body weight for muscle growth and weight gain. Looking at nutrition facts, I don’t see how I can achieve these amounts without supplementing with some form of protein (whey), while trying to eat on a budget. I’ve looked at whey protein supplements online, but I’m not sure if they’re for me, both financially and health wise. I have seen where they sell Body Fortress brand at wal-mart and target for cheap, but have heard good and bad things about it.

My questions;
What are your recommendations for protein intake for muscle growth?
Has anyone seen a weight gain from just increasing protein intake through diet alone, and how?
If I do decide on protein supplement, what do you recommend for protein on a budget?

2/25/2009 6:33:56 PM

Quote :

"I have seen recommended protein intakes between .75 and 1.5 times body weight "

does not compute

2/25/2009 6:41:16 PM

WheyFit Isolate for best absorption by the body

WheyFit Concentrate for good absorption and more affordability

CytoSport Muscle Milk is also a good all-around supplement. Tastes better than anything else.

2/25/2009 7:22:29 PM

Quote :

""I have seen recommended protein intakes between .75 and 1.5 times body weight ""

I think you mean between .75g(protein)/lb - 1.5g(protein)/lb of body weight?

2/25/2009 7:24:29 PM

yea thats what he should have meant at least, although 1.5 is very high

2/25/2009 7:25:54 PM

yea, i was talking about g of protein per lb of body weight. i figured anyone responding to this would know what i was talking about. i realize some could have thought i was just ignorant about the topic.

i have read that the body can't process more than 1g per lb (per day) of body weight for rebuilding muscles, but i have also seen disputing claims, just looking for some personal experience. i'm thinking around 1g per lb is what i'll shoot for.

does anyone have experience with achieving anything close to this with diet alone? affordably?

2/25/2009 7:38:56 PM

I am not a dietitian or anything so feel free to correct me someone, but I posed something similar to this in another thread before based on info ive gathered over the years. Basically a lot of sites will tell you to take 1+g per lbs body weight per day.

The average guy in a normal routine (light excercise) really only needs .37 or so based on the people who do all the diet stuff and food pyramids yadda yadda yadda. For someone who is working our 3-4 days a week at pretty good intensity (sounds close to you) 0.7-0.75g per lb of body weight is plenty. If you are really lifting and training hard 5 days a week (more than what you said you are doing) you could justify .8 to 1...but 1 g / lb of body weight is really the upper limit. 1.5 is serious overkill.

found a men's fitness article that pretty much backs up what I had said before:

Quote :

"Depends on whether you work out or not and how strenuous your workouts actually are. Your average desk-bound male requires just 0.36 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day. But exercise can nearly double those requirements. For endurance athletes, Peter Lemon, a professor of exercise nutrition at the University of Western Ontario, recommends getting between 0.5 and 0.7 grams of protein per pound of body weight. "For strength athletes, those numbers are even higher--generally between 0.7 and 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight," he says. If you've been shooting for a gram of protein per pound of body weight--or more--you're overdoing it. Your body won't be able to process those extra calories, and they'll ultimately end up as just one thing: fat."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1608/is_4_20/ai_n6002944

I usually get 2 eggs and 2 yogurts in the morning lately (about 20-25 g of protein), plus 2 sandwiches with 2 slices of turkey for lunch and another yogurt which is another 25g, plus at dinner I get another 25g of protein or so.

I weigh 140lbs so if I take 0.7*140 I get ~100. As you can see I get about 75g from foods and then I take the rest in shakes I mix with milk (I have both Optimum Nutrition and Muscle Milk protein powders at my place)

[Edited on February 25, 2009 at 8:03 PM. Reason : ]

2/25/2009 7:52:16 PM

I use ON Gold Standard from vitamin shoppe, or you can get it from bodybuilding.com

24g per scoop, mix it with 8 oz of milk and it tastes very good. Get the chocolate (my favorite)

You will have to spend money, that is a given, why not spend a little extra and get the best one, right?! If you are going for the weigh gainer, then cytosport cytogainer tastes pretty good, 600 calories per serving if mixed with water, mix it with milk and it's higher. Good carbs and vitamins, a good product, but it is thick and you consume alot of it.

1.5g-2.0g to grow, and .75g -1g to maintain lean body muscle, if you eat right/train right, which sounds like u do.

Goood luck.

2/25/2009 8:22:04 PM

I use EAS (Myoplex and non-myoplex, depending on what's on sale) daily.

That's a bare minimum of 24g of protein + whatever I happen to eat that day.

I started working out in November and have been on a pretty regular gym schedule of going 3-4 times a week.

If you're trying to gain weight, you pretty much HAVE to take protein after each workout. I dropped 15 lbs in a month, and have gained back 12 lbs of muscle just from taking protein after my workouts.

In short, I'd swear by it.


If you're hard up for cash, I'd suggest hitting up Costco (or tag along with someone who has a membership if you don't) for cheap protein - They have 6lb bags of the EAS stuff for $30. By yourself, that one bag should last at least a couple of months. Don't worry too much about spending money, though. There's very few things in the world that you can invest in that are more valuable than yourself.

[Edited on February 25, 2009 at 8:45 PM. Reason : .]

2/25/2009 8:44:27 PM

I hear semen is a good source of protein.

2/25/2009 8:58:21 PM

oh snap, the damage i could do in this thread.....must...resist....rant....broscience

2/25/2009 8:58:32 PM

nah i mean go for it, the guy is looking for information.

2/25/2009 9:02:54 PM

6'1 155...hmm...I'd aim for 180g protein, any more is likely wasted

so that's pretty simple, but you need to eat like a horse and lift like one too, 3x week better be some high volume stuff, if you want a more detailed plan, pm me and I'd be glad to help out

I'm not too familiar with bulking, only cutting, lost over 100lbs in just over 1yr, but I believe I'd know what to do if I was looking to bulk. For you, let's eat 3000 cal/day to bulk. Minimum. If you can't derive 180g of protein out of 3000 cals over 6 meals, you're doing it wrong. So...at 500 cal/meal...lets go as such:

1-1.5 servings of whole grains - 150-225 cal
2 servings of lean meat/protein - 100-225 cal
1-1.5 servings of fruit/dark greens - 50-150 cal

Breakfast example:
3 eggs - 210 cal, 21g protein, 0g carbs, 12g fat
1 cup oatmeal w/ cinnamon - 300 cal, 10g protein, 50g carbs, 5g fat
Totals: 510 cal, 17g fat, 50g carbs, 31g protein

Snack example:
2 slices whole wheat bread - 200 cal, 3g fat, 40g carbs, 8g protein
6oz chicken/turkey/ham/fish/steak/pork loin - 200 cal, 6g fat, 0g carbs, 30g protein
1 banana - 1g fat, 17g carbs, 3g protein - 100 cal
Totals: 500 cal, 10g fat, 57g carbs, 41g protein

Dinner/Lunch example:
3/4 cup brown rice or 1 cup pinto beans - 225 cal, 4g fat, 38g carbs, 12g protein
8oz lean meat - 250 cal, 8g fat, 0g carbs, 40g protein
2 cups baby spinach or 1 cup broccoli - 50 cal, 0g fat, 4g carbs, 4g protein
Totals: 525 cal, 12g fat, 42g carbs, 56g protein

Bam, if you eat those whole foods 5-6x day over the next few months, you'll likely gain something....lift hard and keep that basketball/raquetball active at 1-2x week...more may deter muscle gains *may*....you should pack on some muscle, provided adequate rest after heavy lift days. If you're new to lifting, don't blast yourself the first few times out else you'll be so sore you'll never return. I'd start with 3x week full body each time til you're ready for splits. If you're ready for splits, let me know and I'd be happy to provide more info on the next move I'd take.

As far as protein supplementing via whey....I'll only take 2x scoops/day immediately after working out since whey is one of the fastest absorbing proteins. So if you want, since you're small still, 1 scoop after lifting, along with like a banana and a slice of whole grain bread would be an excellent post workout meal for ya. I wouldn't recommend living off whey though, even if it is a cheaper source than the lean meats or cottage cheese. I mix all mine with water since I'm cutting but if you can afford milk, knock yourself out. My fav brand is also ON Whey, but recently I just picked some up from online that has a lower net carb and better BCAA profile and only 105 cal/serving...it's not for you though. Just find a source for ON 100% whey online...snag a 5lb tub for ~$35 shipped, else if you shop hard, you can find some off brand for ~$25 5lbs....I'd skip the Target/Walmart stuff, I have tried it, tastes like crap, does not mix well. My fav ON flavors are Chocolate mint(fav), extreme milk chocolate, double rich chocolate, cookies n cream. I hated vanilla, tasted like paper, and strawberry was bad, likely tastes better with milk though. Haven't tried tropical punch or banana yet....won't either...just sounds bad. My current flavor is All The Whey brand's Cup Cake Batter....tastes absolutely amazing...cannot wait til I start Keto dieting again and can mix with heavy cream!

2/25/2009 9:31:07 PM

In terms of supplements, buy Cytogainer if youre looking to gain. Its somewhat similar to muscle milk but is far cheaper per pound, has more carbs, and less fat - about the same protein. Muscle Milk is good stuff, no doubt, but you can get better things for you money. Buy a huge tub of ON whey. I think its the best whey powder you can get. Its relatively inexpensive, has as many BCAAs as any protein powder, 5g of glutamine, and it tastes pretty good (also has tons of flavors)

2/25/2009 10:30:12 PM

http://www.thesupplementrating.com/listing.php?id=985

This is what I take and I highly recommend it. As kiljadn stated, if you're going to bother using protein powder, why not get the absolute best stuff? You're going to be paying a pretty decent price for any protein powder, so the $30 extra-ish per month you might pay as an opportunity cost is well worth it. It's like investing an extra dollar per day to having a better body and being healthier.

Also, quote of the thread IMO:

Quote :

"600 calories per serving if mixed with water, mix it with milk and it's higher."

I don't know why this struck me as funny but it really did. Reminds me of the Mr. Obvious show that Bob and Tom used to run.

2/26/2009 6:04:15 AM

Make sure you increase your water intake to help process all the extra protein.

2/26/2009 7:50:38 AM

protein intake?'s ?

does not compute

2/26/2009 8:08:26 AM

what porcha said

+

Quote :

"Make sure you increase your water intake to help process all the extra protein. "

2/26/2009 9:32:58 AM

Thanks for all the info porcha, pm sent

2/26/2009 10:24:21 AM

Man, it's to easy. You are a twig right now. You don't need any supplements or any of that other crap.

Get 'Starting Strength" by Rippetoe, read it and learn it. Do that program and drink a gallon of milk a day and eat. You will gain strength and mass faster than anything said in here.

2/26/2009 10:47:52 AM

Quote :

"You don't need any supplements or any of that other crap. "

no offense but pure protein supplements are not on the same level as anything else you are referring to as "any of that other crap". I never understand what people have against supplementing your protein intake with a lean powder. It beats taking in the extra calories et al associated with the extra foods I would have to eat in a day to get to an amount of protein to maintain and especially build muscle.

I would definitely recommend against drinking a full gallon of milk every single day. Even in skim milk you are going to be consuming a lot of calories, a ton of sodium, and a lot of sugar. I mean dont get me wrong, I love milk but drinking a gallon of it a day isnt the best thing for you unless you are looking to gain pure weight and not necessarily muscle weight. I know he will need a diet a lot higher in calories than he is getting now but I wouldnt necessarily want to get like 70% of my daily calorie intake just from drinking milk, plus most the calories in milk come from sugar.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 11:05 AM. Reason : ]

2/26/2009 10:58:55 AM

maybe use the milk for your shakes but that's as far as i'd go....while milk is a very fast absorbing protein, I'd rather use whole foods and not drink any calories...hence why my recommendations are very supplement empty

i don't really count whey as a "supplement" like most people think of when they hear "supplements" rather it's a part of my caloric macros and simply a supplement to achieve my macros. If he's really hardcore about wanting a post workout protein, you could down eggs but that would be "supplementing" your workout recovery with the fastest absorbing protein, also it's a bit expensive downing 6 egg whites/day. I'll eat 2 for breakfast and that's it since I'm so poor. Whey is a much cheaper alternative. I've only had 1 scoop of casein ever too.

2/26/2009 11:05:56 AM

Yeah, have you ever heard of Starting Strength? Ever done a similar program? Try it, then say don't do it. If you want to gain mass and more muscle, you will do a heavy program and drink a gallon of milk a day. Mark Rippetoe is one of the most established/credible strength coaches around, and he recommends doing this. Sure, if you want to struggle with gaining mass and waste your money, do whatever you want. Protein supplements aren't bad per se, but they usually aren't needed. Add on to that, that whey is whey. No name whey protein from Wally world is going to be just as good as the 5x as expensive whey from GNC. It's all marketing.

The point is, with a proper diet you don't need a protein supplement if you are over 6 feet and under 160 pounds.

2/26/2009 11:06:13 AM

Heard of it, never tried it, don't need it.

I don't think people in here would be suggesting problems that they struggle to have success with. And I spend less per day adding protein to a glass of milk than drinking a gallon of milk.

Quote :

"No name whey protein from Wally world is going to be just as good as the 5x as expensive whey from GNC. It's all marketing. "

For the most part no one is arguing that. What you look for is the calories, fat, etc.

2/26/2009 11:16:54 AM

yes whey is whey and i only said if he wants, he can have a scoop post exercise, else i recommended a pretty balanced and healthy diet that could easily hit 150g+ protein/day

and i recommended brand whey based on flavor/mixability, not because it has 7g BCAAs and a creatine compound mixture crap

don't want powdered whey? eat cottage cheese

2/26/2009 11:18:09 AM

Quote :

"and i recommended brand whey based on flavor/mixability, not because it has 7g BCAAs and a creatine compound mixture crap"

this too, I really don't care about the other stuff.

2/26/2009 11:19:04 AM

this is all your fault I'm being trolled, CalledToArms, I knew I shouldn't have posted!

2/26/2009 11:20:04 AM

sorry. I just know from reading your posts in other threads that you know whats up. Youre a little heavier on the protein intake than I am but I do also realize I am not looking to put on tons of mass at the moment.

and Ytsejam, I am not trying to say that that guy or his method are wrong, it just irks me when people view protein supplements as something that shouldnt be used when they are perfectly legit.

2/26/2009 11:31:09 AM

Quote :

"Don't worry too much about spending money, though. There's very few things in the world that you can invest in that are more valuable than yourself."

2/26/2009 11:36:40 AM

I would recommend getting most of your protein from solid foods, and only supplementing with shakes in a pinch and after workouts. I believe that you will see better gains that way, because your body will absorb protein better in conjunction with a balanced meal than in a shake.

Generally speaking you want your meals to have a ratio of approximately 1.5 g of carbs per gram of protein, with maybe .5 g of good fats (olive, fish, flaxseed, grapeseed oils, etc) to go along with it. Make sure these carbs are not the sugary type. Potatoes, oats, yams and brown rice are examples of good carbs with a low glycemic index, which will provide a sustained insulin release and allow for maximum protein absorption. You want to eat these kinds of meals every 2.5 to 3 hours if possible. Once you get into the habit, you will find yourself hungry every 3 hours. And even if you aren't hungry, force yourself to eat.

If you eat 5-6 balanced meals that are high in protein and you work out, you WILL gain weight. I've gained about 20 pounds in the past few months following those rules.

2/26/2009 11:45:38 AM

Ripptoe's SS is not about the nutrition, it's a very solid book on starting strength training. His Rx of milk gets LOTS of criticism. However, for a newbie athlete, this is a pretty good idea, to get enough nurtients/carbs/protein (w/ a "normal" 3 meal diet). The milk is a starting place--an intro to the young athlete to teh world of eating big.


There is absolutely nothing wrong w/ protien supplementation. I would, however not rely on it for most of your protein intake--EAT YOUR DAMN MEAT. It is a very efficient way to get quickly digesting protien around--before/after/during--times of activity/workouts/training.






[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 11:59 AM. Reason : ]

2/26/2009 11:57:12 AM

Drinking a gallon of milk a day is not a good idea in my opinion. Its definitely good protein and absorbs very well, but you have to take into account all the other things you get from it. For one thing, way too much calcium. Anyone that drinks this much milk is more than likely going to have a pretty bad kidney stone somewhere along the line. Also, if you are drinking that much you are probably not getting enough water in your system.

Dude, if you want to get bigger, eat more but just be careful what it is you eat. And if you can't eat enough, have a protein shake. I agree with everyone else that you should spend the extra money and get good stuff. It absorbs better and the shitty stuff can block the GI track pretty good.

Also at the gym do heavier weights and less reps, but more sets of these. You're so lean already that any muscle you build on is going to look good and cut.

2/26/2009 12:18:52 PM

I would say the most important thing to do is to just plain eat more. You can go along with everything else in this thread, but the bottom line is that you're going to have to eat.

2/26/2009 3:10:15 PM

^Winner

2/26/2009 3:24:49 PM

i think you need to lift more often than you are. continue with the other activities though.

increase protein and food intake.

2/26/2009 4:02:10 PM

Quote :

"No name whey protein from Wally world is going to be just as good as the 5x as expensive whey from GNC. It's all marketing."

Quote :

"For the most part no one is arguing that. What you look for is the calories, fat, etc."

I'll argue with that statement. First, it says nothing for the difference between whey isolates, concentrates, hydrosylates; but I'd bet the cheap junk you're buying is probably not an isolate. Furthermore, it doesn't take into account the protein's biological value, net protein utilization rating, or protein digestibility amino acid score. While you may get the same number of grams of protein with the cheap stuff it may not be as readily absorbed by your body due to the amino acid makeup and therefore you really don't get the same benefit as the guy who bought a quality protein.

I use Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard Whey Isolate after workouts and ON GS Casein before bed. Neither is an expensive protein, but they're not the cheapest thing on the shelf either. The Whey Isolate is very quick absorbing and the Casein absorbs slowly over a period of hours.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 4:58 PM. Reason : l]

2/26/2009 4:57:25 PM

If you dont eat right, you'll never accomplish much. Espeically in your situation.

go to walmart - buy cheap protein (52g per 2 scoops but its got other stuff in it which is why its at walmart)...regardless, for you it wont matter...if your a body builder, thats a different story

while your at walmart, buy a cheap 15 dollar blender.

go home, blend 2 scoops with some skim milk, a bananna, 2 scoops of peanut butter, and some ice cubes...this is a meal replacement shake that is loaded with protein and tastes better than a milk shake from McDonalds.

drink one twice a day..once inbetween other meals and once after working out.

2/26/2009 4:58:50 PM

Just search 'protein' on TWW and you will find tons of good info. And for the love of god, don't try to tell people that all whey proteins are the same.

I try to only use a powder for pre/post workout. Otherwise I'm real foods all the way.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 5:23 PM. Reason : ...]

2/26/2009 5:22:20 PM

Quote :

"No name whey protein from Wally world is going to be just as good as the 5x as expensive whey from GNC. It's all marketing"

There is a huge difference between bottom of the barrel whey protein concentrates and the more expensive isolates and hydrolysates. Your body will even let you know the difference by getting extremely bloated and gassy on the cheaper products. What good does it do you to take a protein supplement if your body doesn't even want to digest it as protein?

But regardless, the biggest thing you're going to have to learn to do is just plain eat more. Eat bigger portions of steak and chicken and eggs instead of just trying to use whey protein. Whey is great for packing in protein directly before and after your workout, but it shouldn't be a crutch for adding calories.

2/26/2009 5:50:08 PM

Bigger portions can help if you have the room or appetite for them. I've found that I fill up very quickly, so no amount of willpower seems to overcome my body's natural aversion to eating 16 oz of steak in one sitting. The solution for me was to eat more frequently. By eating 5-6 meals a day plus a shake around my workout, I can squeeze in 3000+ calories instead of the ~2500 calories that I was getting on 3 meals a day. Once you get into the habit of eating more frequently, you will get hungry more often which will help you out further.

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 6:15 PM. Reason : 2]

2/26/2009 6:13:40 PM

I wasn't implying that you should eat 3 huge meals. I was saying that you should increase your protein sizes in your 5-6 meals a day. The difference between 4oz meat portions and 6oz meat portions isn't very noticeable to your stomach, and it wouldn't hurt to add a couple ounces more of oatmeal or rice after your workouts either.

2/26/2009 9:50:29 PM

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/allthewhey/wheyprotein.html?CJAID=10409943&CJPID=1225267

a special on 15 lbs of protein for $66 shipped

2/26/2009 10:11:15 PM

Quote :

"go home, blend 2 scoops with some skim milk"

Skim milk ?? He is trying to gain weight littlegun20

2/27/2009 11:56:57 AM

he wants to gain lean muscle mass. that is not the same as saying he wants to gain weight. once again, id rather get my calories from other foods.

2/27/2009 12:00:46 PM

From your height and weight.... I gather that you are really, really lean.

You need to be more concerned with upping your calorie intake in general -- not just protein. You should eat at least 80% of your body weight in carbohydrates post workout. (ex: I weigh 130, so I eat ~ 100 grams of carbs post workout) Gaining mass is not just about protein, its about lifting heavy and eating A LOT.

2/27/2009 12:23:09 PM

^

Yeah, I used to be in his shoes. I was 6'2, 160 throughout college. Very, very lean and I could never figure out how to get food to stick. I went through phases where I tried to drink protein shakes all the time, to trying to gorge on fast food in the hopes that some of it would stick. Most of the time I was lifting 3-4 times a week. I might gain 5 pounds only to lose it a month later. It was frustrating.

Ultimately I had to learn how to eat healthy meals, not just up my protein. The analogy I would use is an obese person only worrying about their fat intake. If that fat person only focuses on the grams of fat in the food they eat, and ignores all the sugary carbs and empty calories in their diet, they will never lose weight. Likewise, to gain weight you have to eat healthy, and eat A LOT. Protein is important, but so are carbs and fats. Just trying to up your protein won't do it if you aren't eating balanced meals. Go on a weightlifting or bodybuilding forum, read up in the diet section, and then try to craft your own. You might be amazed with your progress. For me, I'm now 185, with a lower body fat % than I was in college. And it's not like I'm working out harder. I'm just eating better, and eating more than I used to.

[Edited on February 27, 2009 at 1:10 PM. Reason : 2]

2/27/2009 1:08:59 PM

Quote :

"You should eat at least 80% of your body weight in carbohydrates post workout. "

Haha, funny unintentional mistake

2/27/2009 1:22:55 PM

Quote :

"Go on a weightlifting or bodybuilding forum"

Any recommendations on ones you like?

2/27/2009 2:27:19 PM

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/

Bodyspace yo!

2/27/2009 3:02:03 PM

Might've been said, I'm drunk and not reading; johnberardi.com -> Nutrition -> Massive Eating.

John Berardi is a well respected nutritionist. 3 years ago I was 139 pounds at 5'10''. I weighed in yesterday at 168. What he says is not revolutionary, but it spells things out that most skinny guys don't think about. This was also in conjunction with Joe DeFranco's Westside for Skinny Bastard lifting program. As soon as you COMMIT to something (not just think you want to do it, then smoke cigarettes and skip breakfast) you'll start to see improvement.

2/27/2009 10:56:37 PM