Probably the best 20/20 ep I've seen. It's old, but timely.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Politically+Incorrect+Guide+to+Politics#q=Politically+Incorrect+Guide+to+Politics&emb=0

2/8/2009 12:07:16 AM

Quote :

"best 20/20 ep"

there's a joke to be made about gold medals and special olympics

2/8/2009 12:26:22 AM

eh, John Stossel(sp) can be pretty good, he usually cuts through the BS. I can't say I watch 20/20, but i've seen a lot of his clips.

2/8/2009 5:01:16 AM

Like many libertarians, Stossel has good ideals and goals, but his complete and utter hatred of government muddies a lot of his arguments. His willingness to speak almost exclusively in broad generalizations and his heavy reliance on sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek, with out ever acknowledging this practice, ultimately undercuts his arguments because he makes it so easy to poke lots of tiny holes in them.

2/8/2009 11:04:17 AM

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"speak almost exclusively in broad generalizations and his heavy reliance on sarcasm and tongue-in-cheek, with out ever acknowledging this practice,"

are you talking about MSNBC nightly lineup?

2/8/2009 11:38:10 AM

i don't recall having created any threads recently espousing the virtues of Olbermann's or Madow's reporting

2/8/2009 11:48:05 AM

to be fair, i wrote my first post after watching just part 1 of the show, with the stupid stunt in the ice skating rink.

i've watched it all now, and the 2nd half (parts 3-5) brought his rhetoric much more down to earth and made lots of excellent points.

[Edited on February 8, 2009 at 12:14 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2009 12:05:56 PM

I enjoyed its so much I went to YouTube and watched a few more of his clips -- he has some good info. The one on Greed is especially good.

2/8/2009 12:32:24 PM

Must see tv.

2/8/2009 3:26:17 PM

It should have been titled

"John Stossel explains politics to 12 year olds"

2/8/2009 8:25:43 PM

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" MUST SEE TV "

Seriously, everyone in American should be made to watch this episode.

2/8/2009 9:54:53 PM

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"and made lots of excellent points."

Yes an excellent series by Stossel.

Liberty runs in our veins, it's in our genetic make-up as Human Beings and Americans. That's why this show hits home with so many. Our country was started up, in part, by a bunch of radical libertarian-types. People who wanted to put the brakes on gov't tyranny.

Through many years of flawed good intentions, our country has gradually moved away from those original ideals of limited gov't and personal responsibility.

For some, it's too late. They see gov't as the answer to life's problems. Anyone who questions our politicians' policies "hates" all gov't, is too partisan, selfish, greedy etc.

2/9/2009 12:47:55 AM

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"Through many years of flawed good intentions, our country has gradually moved away from those original ideals of limited gov't and personal responsibility."

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

2/9/2009 12:51:20 AM

^^The biggest issue with a libertarian democracy is that people are going to vote away their freedoms for promises of short-term solutions and an easy way out of problems.

And if the majority are willing to give up liberty... how is one to protect their rights without denying them the right to vote?

It's sad, really... that people are so short-sighted, narrow-minded, and generally stupid in groups.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 12:54 AM. Reason : .]

2/9/2009 12:54:18 AM

I'm a staunch, staunch Libertarian, but I think from a standpoint of executing that philosophy you need 1 of 3 things:

1- A much smaller population spread out of a large area which will then tend to form small local governments which will truly represent those smaller communities.

2 - a vastly more mature population that is capable of logical, reasoned thought and capable of maintaining consistent government without oppressing itself

or

3 - A benign dictator.

Possibility 1 has come and gone, Jefferson's dream never had a chance. We will never be a nation of farmers.

I don't have much faith in people. Possibility 2 seems exceedingly unlikely.

As much as I hate to say it, Hobbes may have been right, we need a Leviathan. It's a very short term solution, but it'd be better than the tyranny of democracy.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 1:00 AM. Reason : asdfad]

2/9/2009 12:59:20 AM

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"people are going to vote away their freedoms for promises of short-term solutions "

You nailed it there. The Framers were aware of the basic flaws in humanity. That's why they tried to spread out the power all over the place. The congress represented the people, the senate represented the state legislatures.

Unfortunately we have allowed politicians to concentrate power more and more into the central gov't. They give out unconstitutional hand-outs in exchange for re-election.

Quote :

"we need a Leviathan."

How would a dictator/massive state system return us to limited gov't and more liberty?

2/9/2009 1:10:44 AM

Well, an unquestionable dictator who fundamentally believed in limited government and liberty for all people would certainly ensure that people retained their rights...

Though it would just never happen. It would also be hypocritical, and extremely ironic. The idea certainly accomplishes the goal of making sure people don't sacrifice their own freedom, but the idea is also just utterly silly.

2/9/2009 1:20:39 AM

Yeah, it would sort of have to be a one time thing and would require an uncorruptable person. Fortunately it's pretty hard to corrupt someone when they already have absolute power.

It wouldn't work, and it's not a really feasible solution. I hope you guys realize I was being tongue in cheek. It's a sad state of affairs really. I don't see any real hope for a solution.

Ultimately I think the US Constitution was probably the best solution to the problem of people being easily influenced by demagogues. Unfortunately over time we have moved so far from our Constitutional roots that the Framers wouldn't recognize us from any other country.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 1:28 AM. Reason : dafds]

2/9/2009 1:28:01 AM

(this is the unofficial John Stossel thread)

Quote :

"10:00pm (eastern) Bailouts and Bull John Stossel and Drew Carey team up to muse on government waste and inefficiency. Topics include plans to improve the economy, universal pre-kindergarten programs, border security, the criminalization of medical marijuana and highway privatization. Also: a report on opportunity in the U.S."

3/13/2009 6:14:46 PM

potheads

3/13/2009 6:17:11 PM

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"2 - a vastly more mature population that is capable of logical, reasoned thought and capable of maintaining consistent government without oppressing itself"

I don't think this one will happen any time soon

3/13/2009 6:46:57 PM

Stossel is bringin' it.

3/13/2009 10:09:19 PM

I think it would be great to have a president who could actually tell the right people what they need to do instead of making all of these false promises. Obviously one man can't do everything. So why should he claim that he can. What I mean by that is telling the right people what they need to do in the areas of the country that need to change or be improved. JFK had the right idea.

3/13/2009 10:22:10 PM

They should have used less footage of that Pre K lady, she was a bit too animated.

3/13/2009 10:42:26 PM