http://www.wkowtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9781795&nav=menu1362_10

Teacher placed on leave for questionable Facebook posting

Quote :

"BEAVER DAM (WKOW) -- Beaver Dam school officials placed a middle school teacher on administrative leave after discovering a photograph of the teacher with a gun on the teacher's Facebook page. In the photo, teacher Betsy Ramsdale is training a rifle at the camera. Ramsdale emailed 27 News in response to our inquiries saying she "removed the photo immediately" and that she is not "interested in any controversy." Ramsdale did not comment on her motivation for posting the photo. Schools superintendent Donald Childs told 27 News he is unaware of any sinister intent on the teacher's part and said the use of the photo "appears to be poor judgment." Childs said the Facebook photo was brought to the attention of school district officials by a concerned staff member at Beaver Dam Middle School. Ramsdale's biography on the school district website states she is in her first year of teaching at the middle school. Department of Public Instruction records show Ramsdale has been licensed to teach since 1996. Middle school parent Jennifer Buzzell said the teacher's decision to post the photograph was concerning. "I don't think it's appropriate," Buzzell told 27 News. "I'm not sure why this would be on the computer at all." "I don't see anything wrong with it," school parent Mark Hagstrom said. "She's on her time to do what she wants." School parent Chad Van Loo said the photograph sends the wrong message. "With the way things are going these days, with the kids bringing guns to school and bomb threats, (photograph) is something to be concerned about." Ramsdale's union representation is through the Beaver Dam Education Association. Association president Janet Schumaker has yet to return a call from 27 News. Read our Assistant News Director's Blog on this topic: http://addins.wkowtv.com/blogs/behindthenews/ To comment and provide news tips, contact reporter Tony Galli at tgalli@wkowtv.com"

Watch the video -- it has the photo of the teacher. She is pointing the rifle at the camera.


Thoughts? Personally I disagree with her being put on leave -- it's a photo on a website and doesn't have anything to do with her teaching. Glad to see we live in the United States of Freedom.

[Edited on February 7, 2009 at 8:45 PM. Reason : ]

2/7/2009 8:44:11 PM

way too many :facepalm:s to point out

2/7/2009 8:50:35 PM

I almost got fired last year for my facebook picture of me with a gun. It wasn't even a real gun. It was an airsoft paint gun... go figure... United States of the Offended.


Ever since that event ALL my social networking accounts were made private. Only my accepted friends are allowed to be offended.

[Edited on February 7, 2009 at 8:58 PM. Reason : teh internets]

2/7/2009 8:54:06 PM

^Hell where I used to work a guy I knew had a picture like that with him and a glock tacked up in his cubicle, and as far as I know the dude is still working there years later

2/7/2009 8:56:49 PM

jesus christ.

teachers apparently don't have 2nd amendment rights anymore.

2/7/2009 9:29:48 PM

^Did they take her gun? you have your amendments confused, kiddo

2/7/2009 9:49:44 PM

Everyone knows that teachers of precious little snowflakes never cuss, have sex, smoke weed, drink, or own guns so I fully support the decision to suspend this heathen.

2/7/2009 9:53:40 PM

Quote :

"^Did they take her gun?"

No, but there's lots of people out there who would love to take away everyone's guns. And acts like this from gov't school officials, where they demonize a gun owner, are some of the first steps towards that goal. But you knew that already, right?

2/8/2009 12:42:03 AM

aiming a gun at a camera is pretty fucking stupid.

2/8/2009 4:22:30 AM

Quote :

"aiming a gun at a camera is pretty fucking stupid."

It's only stupid if someone is holding the camera.

Last time I checked owning a gun wasn't illegal, nor was it considered obscene to take a picture with one. It's not like she had a picture of herself doing a donkey while holding a bong.

2/8/2009 4:58:50 AM

^ There is a discussion. Who thinks she should not have been put on leave if that was the picture?

2/8/2009 10:05:51 AM

I can't believe that people are bent out of shape over a picture of someone with a gun.

2/8/2009 10:11:00 AM

Quote :

"No, but there's lots of people out there who would love to take away everyone's guns. And acts like this from gov't school officials, where they demonize a gun owner, are some of the first steps towards that goal. But you knew that already, right?"

ooo, scary slippery slope (fallacy).


[Edited on February 8, 2009 at 10:22 AM. Reason : Private companies do this all the time. How come you aren't whining about that, foamie?]

2/8/2009 10:12:46 AM

Quote :

"teachers apparently don't have 2nd amendment rights anymore."

I'm pretty sure this isn't a 2nd Amendment issue, b. If anything, this falls under the 1st Amendment.

If this teacher had a picture of something that was actually illegal, like snorting lines of cocaine off of a table, that'd be one thing. But who does she harm by having a picture of herself pointing a gun?

Quote :

"Everyone knows that teachers of precious little snowflakes never cuss, have sex, smoke weed, drink, or own guns so I fully support the decision to suspend this heathen."

I get the point that you're trying to make, but it obviously has less to do with the teacher being a heathen than it does that she might be a "bad" influence on her charges. WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!

2/8/2009 10:23:17 AM

my point with the 2nd was that unlike doing drugs or anything like that, owning a gun (and pointing it at a camera) is perfectly legal.


now if she had captioned the picture "THIS IS WHAT ALL OF MY LITTLE MIDDLE SCHOOL BRATS ARE ABOUT TO SEE" that would be a different story.

[Edited on February 8, 2009 at 12:23 PM. Reason : ]

2/8/2009 12:23:33 PM

Quote :

"Personally I disagree with her being put on leave -- it's a photo on a website and doesn't have anything to do with her teaching. Glad to see we live in the United States of Freedom. "

Quote :

"I can't believe that people are bent out of shape over a picture of someone with a gun."

sigh... This country is going downhill really fast.
Just think of all the idiots that hear this story and are like, "Well, good."
:carlface:

2/8/2009 1:48:46 PM

while I dont care she has a gun or is pointing it, Schools have a zero tolerance policy for guns and drugs. I assume this extends to photos which simulate shooting someone in the face.

but for christ sake look at poor fucking Phelps. He might get charged.

2/8/2009 5:05:48 PM

Quote :

"I assume this extends to photos which simulate shooting someone in the face."

i think we need to ban newspapers in schools and libraries, too...i've seen pictures of soldiers with guns, and you know they're actually going to shoot someone. this sends the wrong message to kids and shouldn't be allowed

[Edited on February 8, 2009 at 5:39 PM. Reason : ]

2/8/2009 5:37:02 PM

are you seriously going to compare a photo of a soldier with a gun in a newspaper to a photo of a teacher with a photo of her pointing a gun at a camera. The majority of her students seem to have access to her account to see this photo.

this is not sheltering kids from guns or realty. Its sheltering them from idiots who apparently post photos of themselves pointing guns at cameras. Seriously who thinks thats a good idea.

2/8/2009 6:08:46 PM

Quote :

"Its sheltering them from idiots who apparently post photos of themselves pointing guns at cameras. Seriously who thinks thats a good idea."

Good idea? Good idea for what? It's just a fucking photo! What difference does it make that the gun is pointing at the camera? It's just a fucking pose for a fucking photo! How does that make them an idiot?
I'm failing to see anything wrong with this.

It is just a fucking photograph. Is it a photograph of something illegal? Is the photograph evidence of a crime? NO. It's just a fucking photo. What the fuck is wrong with people that they see anything (other than perhaps a difference in taste,) ANYTHING wrong with this? I mean what the fuck people?

[Edited on February 8, 2009 at 6:45 PM. Reason : fucking fuck]

2/8/2009 6:44:13 PM

do i think the teacher was using any common sense when she put that picture up? no, not really. but nor do i believe that students should be protected from this teacher....i seriously doubt she'd start shooting kids at school.

basically, i don't think the school should be suspending her based on the picture. i think it's as silly as banning newspapers (i obviously needed rolly eyes for that). people like the "concerned staff member" take things and blow them up entirely out of proportion. one more reason we can't have nice things.

[Edited on February 8, 2009 at 6:48 PM. Reason : &]

2/8/2009 6:47:13 PM

was she in a classroom while holding the gun.......????

i'm guessing not.

for all these whiny parents know maybe she was a champion skeet shooter or was on her schools rifle team.

I will NEVER be one of those parents who isolates their child's life into this giant safety bubble. I swear many of today's parents are content on raising a generation of fucking PUSSIES.

2/8/2009 8:41:37 PM

^ Couldn't Agree more.

The anti-gun crowd has succeeded somewhat in painting anyone who owns a gun or even just has a photo taken of them with a gun as some anti-social, violent nut-job who needs to be removed from society.

2/9/2009 12:52:40 AM

people need to think about what photos they put up on the internet.

2/9/2009 1:30:38 AM

^ Yes, if the photos in question were an illegal or immoral act, I would agree with you

She's holding a gun.

2/9/2009 8:20:32 AM

Most consider teachers professionals, so the school could have looked at it as immature and not of character of what they liked and it could encourage kids to mimick her actions, thus having the need to possess a gun. While she did not break a law in any form or fashion, she stepped across a moral/ethical boundary buy posting the pic. It would have been another thing if her and her friends were dicking off and no picture was taken or never posted on the internet. Think about it if your family doctor has a myspace first of all, and on top of that has a pic of him pointing a gun at a camera, while it may not present a threat, it would look a little foolish for a person of that stature. I am not saying I agree with the school, I'm just saying this is probably how they are looking at it.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 8:41 AM. Reason : /]

2/9/2009 8:40:21 AM

I think the bigger issue is why is this teacher on facebook; befriending her students online......

this may have some mean..

otherwise whiny pussy parents need to mind their own business
"oh knowz crazy teacher holding a gun in her hunting photo may decide to come to school and shoot all the childrenz!! "

I have friends as teachers and they are very strict on who is and is not their friend with strict privacy settings.

2/9/2009 8:49:22 AM

Exactly. Having a Facebook or Myspace is kind weird for a teacher and making friends with students online as well. I have both, but my profiles are very bland and just there for people to find me that I knew from way back, and its obvious that,s this is my profile intentions.

2/9/2009 8:51:34 AM

Quote :

"Having a Facebook or Myspace is kind weird for a teacher"

This statement has no weight. The current crop of new teachers have all grown up in the facebook generation. So they are supposed to delete their accounts b.c some whiny pussy parents may somehow sneak onto their facebook pages. This is why they have so many privacy settings.

Quote :

" and making friends with students online as well"

This is a problem

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 8:55 AM. Reason : a]

2/9/2009 8:54:38 AM

And just what is unprofessional or wrong about possession of a firearm? It's a constitutional right (Constitution not valid in all states, some restrictions apply, void where prohibited, see store for details), and there is nothing immoral or unethical about having a picture of yourself with a gun, any more than it would be immoral or unethical of a teacher to have a picture of themselves holding a bottle of beer, smoking a cigarette, attending a protest or eating foods containing trans-fats. Now, if she were distributing her site to her students in class and had pictures of her doing irresponsible or inappropriate for school distributed literature things (pointing said gun at a person, doing body shots, attending the nude protests in SF, drinking anti-freeze) then the school would have some grounds for disciplinary action. But students stumbling on her site a seeing her in a picture with a gun is no more harmful to their precious little virgin brains than if they saw her walking out of wal-mart with a box of shot shells.

^^^, ^^ and ^ Where did it say she was friending her students in her facebook account? From the article it seems like this whole shitstorm was started when

Quote :

"Childs said the Facebook photo was brought to the attention of school district officials by a concerned staff member at Beaver Dam Middle School. "

Sounds like someone got passed over for a promotion, or had their advances rejected.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 8:58 AM. Reason : sdh]

2/9/2009 8:56:00 AM

Yeah, I know what you mean, but I said that to say both sites cater to teens (so it seems) and if you are a teacher you have to keep in prospective teacher-student relationship, and having a profile on either site thats more that a profile just to be found by old friends could be viewed as some sort of conflict by the school with the photo. If the teacher is 'cool' enough to befriend you on myspace, then whatever she does on myspace could be viewed as cool and someone might try it.

^ I am not agreeing with the school, I am just saying this is probably how they see it. Personally I would never put a picture of myself on the internet doing anything that I thought someone could say something bad about it just because I know how people are.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 9:01 AM. Reason : /]

2/9/2009 8:59:35 AM

Really, how would you feel if she posted a picture of herself wielding a large knife toward the camera? Would that be something you'd want her students to see?

You see a gun and immediately you start blathering about the 2nd amendment and how this country is going to hell because you can't do what you want with your guns. This isn't about gun control. It's about stupid teacher control.

2/9/2009 9:02:30 AM

Off topic, but I still don't understand this "making friends online" concept you folks are speaking of. I mean, I "accept" friends. But, I've never really "made" friends online. Maybe I'm not invested enough into my online identity. Weird....

2/9/2009 9:06:06 AM

^^^ Someone might try what? Shooting a gun? Exercising their constitutional right? Good. People should know how a gun functions and should be educated in gun safety. People should try new things and people should not be afraid of guns.

^^ Why would it matter? Oh no, she has a large knife!!! Run for your lives she's a teacher with a tool!!!!! What if she were wielding a small knife would that be OK? Is it only large knives and guns that are bad or would we also freak out if she were holding an ax or hatchet? Chainsaw? Hack saw? Dremel? Post digger? Soldering gun?

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 9:12 AM. Reason : sfdg]

2/9/2009 9:10:01 AM

Quote :

"students stumbling on her site a seeing her in a picture with a gun is no more harmful to their precious little virgin brains than if they saw her walking out of wal-mart with a box of shot shells. "

lol good going

Quote :

"I said that to say both sites cater to teen"

true for myspace. facebook though was originally targeted for college students than young adults. i always thought it was a mistake making
facebook accessible to high schoolers.

2/9/2009 9:15:57 AM

Quote :

"^^ Why would it matter? Oh no, she has a large knife!!! Run for your lives she's a teacher with a tool!!!!! What if she were wielding a small knife would that be OK? Is it only large knives and guns that are bad or would we also freak out if she were holding an ax or hatchet? Chainsaw? Hack saw? Dremel? Post digger? Soldering gun? "

Since when are tool and weapon the same thing? She pointed a weapon at a camera and posted it on the internet. Is this the example you want to set for your children? Yes, it is your constitutional right to point weapons at cameras. It is in fact your constitutional right to be a douche. There are plenty of things that are your constitutional right to do that should get you fired from your profession. There are even more things that should get you fired if you're a teacher.

2/9/2009 9:39:41 AM

Quote :

"This isn't about gun control. It's about stupid teacher control"

She did nothing stupid.

Quote :

"While she did not break a law in any form or fashion, she stepped across a moral/ethical boundary buy posting the pic."

She most certainly did not.
THERE IS ABSOULUTELY NOTHING, REPEAT, NOTHING IMMORAL OR UNETHICAL ABOUT HER POSTING THAT PHOTO.
NOTHING.
It wasn't unprofessional.
It wasn't immature.
It wasn't stupid.


If you think what she did was immoral, unethical, unprofessional, immature or stupid, then you are plainly wrong. Period.

Quote :

"It is just a fucking photograph. Is it a photograph of something illegal? Is the photograph evidence of a crime? NO. It's just a fucking photo. What the fuck is wrong with people that they see anything (other than perhaps a difference in taste,) ANYTHING wrong with this?"

Quote :

"Now, if she were distributing her site to her students in class and had pictures of her doing irresponsible or inappropriate for school distributed literature things (pointing said gun at a person, doing body shots, attending the nude protests in SF, drinking anti-freeze) then the school would have some grounds for disciplinary action. But students stumbling on her site a seeing her in a picture with a gun is no more harmful to their precious little virgin brains than if they saw her walking out of wal-mart with a box of shot shells."

Exactly.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 9:40 AM. Reason : ]

2/9/2009 9:39:49 AM

See now, this is just differences of moral compasses. You say that pointing it at a person is wrong, but don't see the issue of pointing it at a camera. If you look at the picture from the video, the perspective of the shot is right at the camera. She's not pointing at some clay discs, she's not using it for sport, she's pointing it right at the camera and the viewer.

At best, it's questionable judgment. And questionable judgment is not a trait you want in a teacher.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 10:04 AM. Reason : camera.]

2/9/2009 10:03:29 AM

Quote :

"this is just differences of moral compasses"

No, it's differences of taste.
No claim that what she did was immoral or unethical is even worth debating.
She CLEARLY did nothing, nothing immoral or unethical.

So that leaves: unprofessional, immature, stupid (questionable judgment), and questionable taste.
These are at least debatable.
So, please, debate them, but please let's all agree that there is absolutely no way in hell that any legitimate interpretation of her actions could ever even come close to concluding that they were immoral or unethical. I mean, come on.

Quote :

"You say that pointing it at a person is wrong"

Pointing a loaded gun, and some would include an unloaded gun (because you might think it's unloaded when it's really loaded,) at someone is unsafe. It is not wrong. (unsafe ≠ wrong)

Quote :

"but don't see the issue of pointing it at a camera"

What's the issue?
As has been pointed out, cameras can be set up by themselves, and often are.
(camera ≠ person)

Quote :

"perspective of the shot is right at the camera"

So? So?

Quote :

"She's not pointing at some clay discs, she's not using it for sport"

Because that's the only reason you should have a gun....

Quote :

"she's pointing it right at the camera and the viewer"

Yes, and no. I'm the viewer. You're the viewer. Is she pointing her gun at you or I? No. Is an image of a gun pointed at you or I? Yes. (image of gun ≠ gun)

Quote :

"At best, it's questionable judgment"

No, at best, it's completely insignificant. At worst, it's questionable judgment. And really, how is it questionable? What questions?

This whole story deserves a "Really? with Seth and Amy". (aimed at the school, not the teacher)

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 10:40 AM. Reason : ]

2/9/2009 10:39:26 AM

Quote :

"I think the bigger issue is why is this teacher on facebook; befriending her students online......"

I don't think anything is wrong with it per say. After all, its just another avenue for teachers to interact with their students, especially younger teachers who grew up with the Internet. This particular teacher did show poor judgment: if you're going to create a Facebook presence, you should use be wise about what you post there especially since your students are watching you. In other words, don't put up anything on Facebook that you wouldn't do in person in front of all your students, both the ones you like and the ones you don't. Unfortunately, a lot of people still haven't fully grasped the concept that the Internet is a public space that all people, not just your friends, can theoretically see.

That being said, again, I think that the school officials overreacted with a suspension. If it bothered them so much, they should at have given her a verbal warning or something and suggest that she take it down.

2/9/2009 10:47:29 AM

2/9/2009 10:56:28 AM

^
ERASE, SUSPEND

2/9/2009 10:59:16 AM

Quote :

"I think the bigger issue is why is this teacher on facebook; befriending her students online......"

I didn't read anywhere in the report quoted that she had added her students as friends. I read that a STAFF member alerted the school of the photo, and that before this happened her account was not private.

2/9/2009 11:08:06 AM

No wonder schools have so much trouble filling all their positions. As a teacher you pretty much have to walk on egg shells b.c no matter what you do some parent/staff member/student is going to be "offended" and your ass is grass.

2/9/2009 12:13:49 PM

haha ok so I just looked at the photo.

it wasn't just some random ass picture on her page it was her profile picture. I have no problem with guns or people owning guns or killing shit with guns but I have a problem with teachers pointing guns at cameras and using said picture as their profile picture. Kids didnt have to be friends with her to see this photo they just had to type her name in to search.

look at the photo and take the exact same picture of yourself and post it outside your cubicle and yr ass will get yelled at. Shit why dont you email the photo to your boss! Im sure the cops will be talking to you.

2/9/2009 12:57:13 PM

Quote :

"Kids didnt have to be friends with her to see this photo"

Not true; you can set your facebook privacy in such a way where the picture wouldn't come up unless your friends or even prevent yourself from showing up on a search.

2/9/2009 12:58:41 PM

ok awesome, well she obviously didnt do that because people saw it.

but take that same photo and send it to your boss. Im sure he will love it.

2/9/2009 1:00:39 PM

It was her profile photo... haha what a moron. I am sure she thought this picture was 'cool' for a profile photo, which it is if you were a college student or worked at Hardee's. It does say something about her, but not enough to have her fired or anything like that. Also, if you have too much privacy settings on your Facebook I would think you have something to hide. In fact any privacy setting say you have something to hide if you are a grown-up unless you have a crazy ex or something. If you are a teen or something I could understand privacy setting to to protect you, but otherwise any respectable person that I know doesn't have any privacy setting whatsoever.

[Edited on February 9, 2009 at 1:11 PM. Reason : /]

2/9/2009 1:11:32 PM

i have an asshole of privacy settings. Im keeping my shit from people I dont know.

2/9/2009 1:24:04 PM

my first thoughts when i saw the photo: sarah palin.


as it I see it theres really nothing wrong with having that photo at all. i'll go as far to say its poor judgement on her part, but only because she should have thought about how certain up tight people would perceive it. for example, i'd never put a pro-choice photo up because some people hold a negative connotation with that and I rather not involved in the bullshit surrounding it. regardless, this does not warrant suspension

2/9/2009 1:57:13 PM