the 120v welders thread was too old. I don't know a whole lot about welding but I've got the itch to start learning how. I'm sick of depending on other people and I'm sick of feeling completely helpless when I know a welder would solve a problem in five minutes but I don't have one.

http://store.cyberweld.com/mil135witecc.html would this, with the spool gun and shielding gas, be able to weld typical 2.5" aluminum intercooler piping and 3" stainless used for exhaust? I understand I will have to grind down the welds some and I know I'm going to need a lot of practice. And I presume the "auto-set" feature is not all that useful.

12/31/2008 11:32:52 AM

that Auto-Set seems like a stupid way to set feed rate and voltage level


practice makes perfect! My only qualm would be with welding aluminum without a gun-mounted spool, or is that the "spool gun" you are referring to?

12/31/2008 11:38:45 AM

the "spool gun" is the spoolmate 100 http://store.cyberweld.com/sp100migsp.html

12/31/2008 11:39:32 AM

sounds like you're good to go then!

12/31/2008 11:53:41 AM

do I need a different type of wire to weld aluminum? or do I just use the same stuff? I don't even understand what the spool gun is for

1/1/2009 10:51:23 AM

i think to weld aluminum you'll need 100% argon gas and aluminum wire. double check me on that, but if i recall correctly that's what works. BigBlueRam should know

edit: yup, argon and aluminum wire

link: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/compactmig.asp

[Edited on January 1, 2009 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

1/1/2009 2:22:17 PM

yep, need 100% argon and aluminum wire like ^ said. I'd trying to learn to TIG weld now..not so easy

1/1/2009 3:23:23 PM

good article there.

the intercooler piping i'm dealing with here is .0084 inches (~2.15 mm) thick if I measured it correctly (just used my dial caliper). is that going to be a problem with the miller 140? I really don't want to get a 220 volt for the all reasons that have been previously discussed.

I am just thinking about redoing all my intercooler piping myself. It's really too small for my new turbo and i'm tired of paying other people for this kind of work. Phantasm did a couple welds for me, they charged me 3 hours of labor, and I think it was done with a MIG (didn't have the clean TIG look) but they didn't even bother to grind the welds down.

[Edited on January 1, 2009 at 7:27 PM. Reason : i think that's 12 gauge aluminum I am dealing with?]

1/1/2009 7:26:41 PM

.084" is closer to 14 gage metal thickness.

Can you even fit the 140 with a spool gun? I don't think so. You can fit it to their bigger models but I don't think you can to a 140/180.

You HAVE to use a comparable filler material with the base metal you're welding. For aluminum tubing, that equates to aluminum wire. The pieces have to be SPOTLESS. Aluminum oxidizes very rapidly, and the oxidation layer is what makes it so damn impervious to corrosion. It also makes it damn hard to weld.

Another factoid about welding aluminum is that most alloys have NO transition stage from solid to liquid form, so without a lot of practice, you end up blowing holes in the pieces you're trying to weld...because it doesn't really get "soft" or get cherry red. Aluminum emits almost no light radiation (if any at all) at its melting point. One second it's solid, the next it's liquid.

You have to use pure argon when welding aluminum, though somebody somewhere might use a mix with a touch of helium.

with stainless, it's a lot more like welding regular steel, with the exception of using stainless filler material (the appropriate grade for the alloy(s) you'll be joining, such as 308 for 304 base metals, 309 for 304-to-carbon steel, and 316 for 316 welds) and either pure argon for TIG or argon with a percentage of helium for MIG. Any carbon dioxide or carbon of any form (or even contact with carbon steel) can result in carbon diffusion into the stainless and subsequent intergranular corrosion.

You also have to be concerned with dwell time vs adequate penetration when welding stainless; too much time or power results in overheating the metal past its chromium precipitation point...and chromium carbides precipitate out of the solid solution as useless unavailable chromium...and local corrosion resistance is lost in the heat affected zone.

Practice and STUDY.

Oh, and BTW...the spool gun is usually used because it provides a very short straight path for aluminum wire and more control of wire feed accuracy. You can use a standard conduit/gun arrangement, but you MUST use a Teflon conduit liner and you MUST keep the conduit relatively straight and short. Aluminum wire is soft and bends way too easily in comparison to standard MIG wire for steel...and will birdsnest on you very quickly if you aren't really careful.

[Edited on January 1, 2009 at 11:49 PM. Reason : Spool guns...mean good production rates with much less downtime.]

1/1/2009 11:46:35 PM

I am up for the challenge. But first I have to see if I can swing the loot for this whole setup. And yes, the spool gun does fit the 140, it says so in the second link I posted. Thanks for the info. Got any tips on cleaning (besides sandblasting)? I was thinking wire brush attachments and some kind of solvent?

So if I wanted to be able to weld mild steel, stainless steel, and aluminum, I would need a 75% argon, argon/helium, and 100% argon respectively?

[Edited on January 2, 2009 at 1:16 AM. Reason : .]

1/2/2009 1:13:11 AM

I clean parts with a wire brush and acetone if it's really dirty.

And someone correct me if i'm wrong, but you should be able to weld steel with 100% argon.

I'm using 100% argon in my tig, and I've welded sheet metal, 1/4" steel, and aluminum with it. (So I know it's possible..but is there a bad side to this?)

You might be able to get away with only getting 1 or two bottles of gas...

1/2/2009 8:42:13 AM

i usually use a right angle die grinder to clean up the pieces good, brake cleaner if there's a bunch of crap on it/is dirty after the die grinder

1/2/2009 10:33:36 AM

someone show this thread to adam8778

1/2/2009 10:37:06 AM

Quote :

"Aluminum wire is soft and bends way too easily in comparison to standard MIG wire for steel"

yeah..i've done it, lol. wasn't gonna post it because i wasn't sure how much of a no no it was to try it that way but i've actually gotten it to work in small amounts.

1/2/2009 12:39:26 PM

question: are those auto-darkening weld masks worth the money? I know Miller sells one for like $200+

1/3/2009 7:18:24 PM

i have used one, very nice, if welding was my job id have one

i most likely wouldnt spend the money if i was just going to be tinkering

1/3/2009 7:27:37 PM

it's best to clean aluminum with a special cleaner made especially for cleaning aluminum prior to welding...simply grinding with a grinder or scuffing with a scotchbrite pad won't cut it. Clean with the cleaning/prep solution and then scuff well with a stainless bristle brush THAT YOU USE FOR NO OTHER PURPOSE. No contaminants there, sir. There are brazing alloys you can use with aluminum that work well; some are formulated to require no flux, while others require aluminum brazing/welding flux. And you can do it with a regular oxy-fuel torch...but some of it takes a deft touch. Eastwood sells such a rod, and several welding supply places do too.

Straight argon should work for all metals. You can get some flux core wires for stainless that give you more gas flexibility (you still have to use at least Unamix or CO2 though).

You can get auto-darkening helmets for significantly cheaper than 200 bones. Depends on just how nice a helmet you wanna get.

[Edited on January 3, 2009 at 7:49 PM. Reason : blan]

1/3/2009 7:49:09 PM

Yeah the cheaper helmets are good for occasional use, expect maybe 2-3 years before they die.

1/3/2009 9:41:01 PM

just be aware that if you have any kind of lingering shadow over your work, the helmet may not initially click on and you may burn your eyes a little...I wouldn't say it is dangerous, but it can be a nuisance

1/4/2009 12:15:09 AM

^ I know some of the auto darkening helmets have a sensitivity adjustment, which may or may not help that problem.

Another question: what size bottle of shielding gas should I get? I think the Miller welder I posted comes with a cart that has space for a small bottle. How quick will I go through gas if I am say spending 4 or 5 hours practicing in my garage? I know it's going to depend on a few factors though.

1/4/2009 12:17:45 PM

what is the duty cycle on the one you want?

1/4/2009 1:11:09 PM

biggest gas bottle you can afford/transport safely


no other reasons to go smaller

1/4/2009 2:02:32 PM

I went to National Welders about 10 days ago to look around and start pricing. I think I am going to buy from there just so I have the convenience of local warranty claims etc. I've been waiting a bit so I don't make a rash purchase and also because my motor still isn't together yet (I have to order some seals that I managed to break).

Here's the question: what are the Garage's thoughts on Miller vs Lincoln Electric (for the 140 model, not the industrial shit)? The guy at National Welders characterized it as "Chevy vs Ford," as in, there isn't that big of a difference but people swear by one or the other anyway.

1/19/2009 12:41:35 PM

I've used Miller welders for years. Excellent machine, and just about every major welding supply carries them. Easy to get parts for.

The Lincolns are just cheaper, and a lil more cheaply built when you're talking about this category. Miller is more expensive, but the wire feed roller bracket is all metal (compared to mostly plastic for Lincoln and Hobart). BTW, Hobart and Miller are the same thing; Hobart is just a cheaper, more consumer-market oriented machine.

1/19/2009 12:56:06 PM

I found this Lincoln 140/Miller 140 comparison document on the Lincoln Electric's site:

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e723.pdf

It is pretty extensive and tries to portray the Lincoln as better engineered with better build quality. Of course it is marketing literature so you can't take everything seriously (and it is a little outdated because Miller has a much cheaper and easier spool gun now), but it has me leaning toward the Lincoln.

Dan, have you used both the Lincoln 140 and the Miller 140? Recently produced versions of those exact models?

[Edited on January 19, 2009 at 1:04 PM. Reason : .]

1/19/2009 1:04:26 PM

The only small lincolns I have used was about 10 years ago. I wasn't very thrilled with them. The majority of the Millers I have used are big ones. Like 250+.

And of course I own a Hobart Handler 140. Welds good for a cheap welder.

1/19/2009 1:22:46 PM

What is the difference between the Millermatic 140 with Auto-Set and the one without? Why does the one without the Auto-Set cost about ~$50 more?

1/20/2009 8:54:00 PM

you misread the catalog. http://store.cyberweld.com/mimigwe.html

the regular millermatic 140 is $658 without the auto set. National Welders on Capital wanted $675 for that. I don't think I am going to get one with auto set. in fact I am probably going to get the Lincoln Electric 140. all the welding websites I look at seem to like it over the Miller.

but while my motor is still in a gazillion pieces i may not have any place to put it. hopefully that will change soon.

1/20/2009 9:14:45 PM

140C or 140T?

1/20/2009 10:51:34 PM

i don't even know what the difference is...

1/20/2009 11:01:39 PM

Quote :

"What is the difference between the Millermatic 140 with Auto-Set and the one without? Why does the one without the Auto-Set cost about ~$50 more?"

uh

perhaps

because one has autoset and one doesn't?

damn that was difficult.

1/21/2009 7:49:34 AM

The website I looked at had the auto-set rig for $50 cheaper than the one without auto-set. That didn't make sense to me if that was the only difference, thus the question.

1/21/2009 9:11:01 AM

call them and ask

i honestly thought you said the opposite and that autoset was more which would make sense

damn < 7am + being sick + cold meds.

my bad

1/21/2009 9:14:24 AM

I have a welding question that could probably go here...

What's the best way to become a certified welder? Should I take a class at Wake Tech and then will I become certified when I pass it? Or do I need to have an inspector come to me in the presence of a welder and weld some samples for him to inspect?

1/22/2009 7:56:58 PM

You have to pass AWS certification to become certified. Depends on just what you want to get certified to do, and finding a curriculum/facility that has the authority to do so.

All certification should require knowledge of theory of welding, compatible materials, penetration depths, number of passes to achieve qualified results, weld leg and throat dimensions and ratios, etc. You will have to demonstrate proper techniques on welding coupons/samples, which will be subjected to destructive testing.

Best thing to do is inquire at Wake Tech. Google American Welding Society as well. Keep in mind that other sanctioning organizations such as ASME, ASTM, SAE, and ISO often have their own requirements. You need to be specific in what you want to be certified in. Stainless? Hastelloy? Cast/ductile? Structural? Titanium, aluminum, or other difficult to weld materials which are subject to either hydrogen embrittlement or interference from highly inert oxide films.

1/23/2009 12:13:18 PM