http://www.wral.com/business/story/4158301/

Other than just being glad for the energy step, I'm excited about this b/c two of my friends work for SPC and they've been working really hard on this these past few months. Yay solar!

Quote :

"Cary, N.C. — North Carolina’s mandated march toward use of renewable energy supplies made a small but significant step forward this week. Despite often cloudy and rainy weather, SAS literally turned on the five-acre solar panel built at its Cary campus and begin feeding power to the Progress Energy grid. Progress is buying the energy, but neither company is disclosing the price. The solar “farm,” which is a vast collection of panels designed to capture and convert sun power to electrical power, is the first to be brought online by Progress. Progress and other utilities are required by state law to begin producing power from renewable sources with solar to account for a minor percentage of that by 2010. Another solar farm is being built in Wilmington, and scores of others are under consideration, according to Progress. “This is a huge milestone,” said Progress spokesperson Mike Hughes. “We truly need a 100 projects like it or to build on this and get even larger projects.” The photovoltaic site, built by SunPower Corporation, has a capacity of 1 megawatt and is expected to produce 1.7 million kilowatt hours of power a year. That’s about enough to provide electricity for a little over 100 homes, based on the average customer use of 14,000 kilowatts of electricity a year, Hughes said. In the grand scheme of power generation, the SAS project is minuscule. Currently Progress has 12,400 megawatts of generating capacity in the Carolinas alone. The solar panels are equipped with technology that enables them to track the sun, but they are expected to produce power between 16-20 percent of each day, he added. SunPower built a similar site in New Jersey. Regardless of size or capacity, SAS Chief Executive Officer Jim Goodnight hailed the sight’s official generation of power. “In less than a year this plan went from idea to reality,” he said in a statement. “I hope people will learn from our experience that sustainable energy is within reach and makes bottom-line business sense.” SAS recently announced plans for a new office building that will be designed to save energy. The company also plans other campus upgrades to reduce energy use. The world’s largest privately held software campus has not allowed visitors to the solar farm and also declined to allow photographs. “Sorry, the site is not going to be available for public viewing for a few weeks,” SAS spokesperson Dave Thomas said. “I know that seems odd considering that we issued a release but we just want to have it presentable before we bring people out.” Progress Energy is exploring solar, wind, biowaste and other options to produce power from renewable sources. By 2012 state law mandates that 3.5 percent of all retail sales come from so-called renewables. That percentage jumps to 12.5 percent by 2021. Duke Energy is also involved in numerous solar and wind projects"

12/17/2008 4:01:25 PM

You can grow solars?

12/17/2008 4:08:27 PM

!

12/17/2008 4:13:02 PM

^^ by definition, everything that grows is solar powered

12/17/2008 4:24:48 PM

Presuming it is in the vacinity of a sun.

12/17/2008 4:27:03 PM

Only 899 more of those, and you'll have a nuclear plant's worth of electrical power, assuming you're producing 1 MW all the time. If you're only producing 20% of the time, it's a mere 1618 more, with appropriate battery storage. If you can get people to build these, then it would be a great time for you graduating engineers to get in to the solar business.

12/17/2008 4:31:54 PM

ding ding ding

completely worthless for base load

it is just a way to make people feel good

12/17/2008 4:34:07 PM

Quote :

"The photovoltaic site, built by SunPower Corporation, has a capacity of 1 megawatt and is expected to produce 1.7 million kilowatt hours of power a year. That’s about enough to provide electricity for a little over 100 homes, based on the average customer use of 14,000 kilowatts of electricity a year, Hughes said."

I just don't see this as a good idea. 5-acres of land used up IN cary to power a mere 100 homes? The idea is great...renewable clean energy and all that jazz but the implementation is just not there yet.

12/17/2008 4:52:08 PM

Quote :

"Presuming it is in the vacinity of a sun."

not really.

at some level, everything that has ever grown on this earth, except maybe a few strange deep-sea, sulfer-breathing creatures, is powered by the sun.

12/17/2008 5:04:32 PM

The efficiency of the solar panels definitely has to be improved. Currently, they might be useful to reduce peak demand during summer months, especially if encourage people to put them on roofs of houses and buildings. They might be useful to put in at old industrial sites that cannot otherwise easily be reclaimed.

12/17/2008 5:16:41 PM

Quote :

"Despite often cloudy and rainy weather, SAS literally turned on the five-acre solar panel built at its Cary campus and begin feeding power to the Progress Energy grid. Progress is buying the energy, but neither company is disclosing the price."

some of the contractors we have working for us this week just finished installing this project.

12/17/2008 5:20:40 PM

i thought they had to buy it at the same rate they sell it

12/17/2008 6:45:08 PM

^i havent kept up with it but I didn't think that was the case

12/17/2008 7:56:19 PM

Quote :

"The photovoltaic site, built by SunPower Corporation, has a capacity of 1 megawatt and is expected to produce 1.7 million kilowatt hours of power a year. That’s about enough to provide electricity for a little over 100 homes, based on the average customer use of 14,000 kilowatts of electricity a year, Hughes said."

You know what else has a capacity of 1 megawatt?

Our research reactor on campus - the PULSTAR.

That's right - your solar farm puts out all the output of our campus reactor. Just about warms the cockles of your heart, now doesn't it?

12/17/2008 8:28:47 PM

Yup, we need more nuclear energy. It's safe, clean, efficient, and cheap. Solar is nice for personal use, but for our real needs nuclear is the way to go. Solar is, I think, probably another couple of decades away from any reasonable usefulness anyway. I'd prefer it if people were talking about building wind farms.

12/17/2008 8:54:57 PM

Quote :

"i havent kept up with it but I didn't think that was the case"

google tells me it only applies to systems up to 100 kw

12/17/2008 9:58:03 PM

Quote :

"ding ding ding completely worthless for base load it is just a way to make people feel good"

Now now. we need day-load plants too. It would be a good mix to use nuclear for base-load, solar for day-load, hydroelectric and nat-gas for peaking and filling cloudy days. It makes engineering sense.

12/17/2008 11:00:43 PM

Quote :

"by definition, everything that grows is solar powered"

tell that to the $900 worth of oregano in my roommate's closet

12/18/2008 12:10:58 AM

Quote :

"Currently, they might be useful to reduce peak demand during summer months, especially if encourage people to put them on roofs of houses and buildings."

most of the work my friends at SPC do has been for residential and small commercial buildings. and they're always busy and travelling all over NC installing them.

12/18/2008 8:41:16 AM

Quote :

"completely worthless for base load it is just a way to make people feel good "

And a huge tax break.

12/18/2008 8:55:02 AM

Quote :

"by definition, everything that grows is solar powered"

Quote :

"at some level, everything that has ever grown on this earth, except maybe a few strange deep-sea, sulfer-breathing creatures, is powered by the sun."

Here's an idea:
Just stop using the word "everything", and you won't have to back-peddle anymore.
(IIRC, there is life without light or oxygen...)

Quote :

"completely worthless for base load it is just a way to make people feel good"

Right. Let's just ignore the impact, albeit small, that it's already making on reducing air pollution from burning coal, nuclear waste, environmentally damaging mining methods, etc. It may be a drop in the bucket now, but don't be surprised if you wake up and that bucket is full...

12/18/2008 9:04:32 AM

Its not economically viable, but the more things like these are adapted the more we can learn and advance the technology (and lower the price).


Just the same, none of this stuff can touch nuclear power with a 10 ft pole. Nuclear FTW!

12/18/2008 9:05:16 AM

Quote :

"i thought they had to buy it at the same rate they sell it"

They buy it at a wholesale rate, not the retail rate you pay each month in your electric bill. The retail price includes upkeep on the power distribution system.

Yes, I know wholesale and retail probably aren't the industry terms. I'm not an expert, I just know the general concepts.

12/18/2008 9:08:04 AM

the environmental impact of all those cells is probably worse per kw/hr than a emissions reclaiming coal plant.


first thing that needs to be done is to eliminate mercury emissions.
second is require that coal plants sequester their co2 emissions in some form, (bio-plants, underground, etc)
third more nuclear power (updated designs, additional cores at existing facilities and new plants)
fourth improve nuclear fuel processing/reprocessing (pyro-metalurgical process to reclaim fuel and seperate out fission products and contaminating wastes, this will reduce the long term danger of the wastes and make them useless for weapons) this process will also allow us to reduce the amount of uranium mined and refined.
fifth privately mounted solar (on houses, building skins etc) to maximize currently under utilized resource.
sixth offshore wind and tidal power development.

12/18/2008 12:27:56 PM

Quote :

"tell that to the $900 worth of oregano in my roommate's closet"

your roomate is growing some SHITTY oregano

12/18/2008 12:38:09 PM

^^^"avoided rate"

[Edited on December 18, 2008 at 12:46 PM. Reason : ]

12/18/2008 12:41:28 PM

DIA (Denver Airport) has a 3megawatt facility capable of powering 228 homes

IMHO, the airports should all do this.

smartgrid is where it's at:
http://www.businessgreen.com/business-green/news/2231633/utility-planning-huge-smart

let's try reducing the amount of energy we produce instead of trying to come up with how to create more clean energy first, although both help

[Edited on December 18, 2008 at 1:48 PM. Reason : .]

12/18/2008 1:42:18 PM

Duke Energy is starting up smartgrid stuff soon too. Maybe we'll see it around here some day...

12/18/2008 1:48:33 PM

Quote :

"completely worthless for base load it is just a way to make people feel good"

they are perfect for peak load, except they cost too much to implement with current technology. And when you consider the mandates for the portion of green energy that will have to come from solar in the next few years, you are going to see some practically criminal rates being charged for solar RECs.

12/18/2008 4:02:14 PM

Quote :

"they are perfect for peak load"

no, they are never perfect for peak load

peak sun is 10 am - 2 pm

peak load in the summer is 3-7 pm and peak load in the winter is about 3-7 am

12/18/2008 4:05:11 PM

what, do you think they stop generating electricity at 2:00PM in the summertime? Have you never heard of solar thermal collectors? Solar panels are perfect for summer peaks, regardless of your opinion.

[Edited on December 18, 2008 at 4:15 PM. Reason : my point still stands that the only reason to build a solar farm is for the RECs scam.]

12/18/2008 4:12:26 PM

^^ just like the mass effect on building materials causes the peak load to be later than most people think, solar panels are not limited to producing power at the same instant they are receiving direct sun.

12/18/2008 4:21:48 PM

dur, that's what the molten salt is for

but i think he's prolly talking about good ole pv panels

12/18/2008 4:37:32 PM

^ yes, im talking about pv

12/18/2008 4:53:10 PM

Damn, that's piss poor.

5 acres powers only 100 houses? Only uses 16-20% of the day??

Call me when they come up with a feasible technological improvement

12/18/2008 6:39:44 PM

they don't cash flow even if you break up the plants into separate installations (like four quadrants on a roof) to max out the 65% tax credit with a 100% sell back agreement and use of all the depreciation

you have to do it because you really want to, it's still a net negative on the economic front - if prices come down another 40% or the utilities start paying 2x as much for power you'll see solar everywhere

edit: they do make money after about 15 years

[Edited on December 18, 2008 at 9:28 PM. Reason : diosjo]

12/18/2008 9:27:59 PM

that economic analysis became obsolete when states started instituting mandates on what percentages of green energy had to come from locally produced solar systems. RECs are currently selling for upwards of $500 per certificate in New Jersey, and forecasters are predicting the same thing to happen here and several other states.

[Edited on December 18, 2008 at 9:46 PM. Reason : they pay for themselves much quicker at $500/MWh plus utility reimbursement]

12/18/2008 9:44:03 PM

http://www.njcleanenergy.com/renewable-energy/programs/solar-renewable-energy-certificates-srec/pricing/pricing

apparently RECs have continued to escalate in New Jersey and have gotten as high as $600 two months ago.

12/18/2008 9:49:50 PM

^^its amazing that nobody has a problem with the government controlling more and more of our lives. could be the greatest tragedy of the early 21st century.

12/18/2008 10:03:06 PM

TBOONE

12/19/2008 7:08:23 PM

Quote :

"your roomate is growing some SHITTY oregano"

i don't , so i don't care

12/19/2008 7:35:47 PM

Quote :

"tell that to the $900 worth of oregano in my roommate's closet"

lols

12/20/2008 12:22:02 AM

MONO RAIL!!!

12/21/2008 10:43:23 AM

I'm pretty sure Dr. Goodnight did this as an altruistic gesture to further develop solar power and reduce cost in the future, and wasn't too concerned about making money. So GJ Dr. G!

12/21/2008 11:33:03 AM

What about the animals and plants that were displaced to put in horribly cost ineffective solar panels.

Nuclear is the only viable current solution that we have. Solar/wind is only wasting tax payer $$$ and land at this point.

12/22/2008 12:07:09 AM

LOL SOLAR AND WIND ARE WORTHLESS BECAUSE MY NUCLEAR SCIENCE PROFFESSOR TOLD ME SO

12/22/2008 3:03:14 AM

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2008/oxygen-0731.html

Cool solution to store energy at night. Makes solar much more of a viable option. Anyway the company i worked for in Charlotte this past summer just installed an 8kw solar array on their roof with a reasonable payback of a few years. During parts of the year the office can be run entirely on solar energy. I know 8kwatts is low but it's a start. There's nothing else on the roof, so why not?

12/22/2008 3:39:09 AM

Proliferation of batteries is a bad thing.

12/22/2008 6:49:41 AM

Here at work my company has been bidding a new building going up at SAS. They have solar thermal collectors on the roof which can be used to maintain the building's hot water supply instead of having to rely on the 2 gas fired water heaters also in the building.

However this building also calls for thermal floor heating on the ground floor lobby as well as snow melting sidewalks out front. Both of those items seem highly frivilous and unnecessary uses of energy.

12/22/2008 11:05:42 AM

The real waste would be to not have snow melting sidewalks.

12/22/2008 11:09:00 AM