Jindal vs Obama 2012?

11/7/2008 12:34:12 AM

whos that?

so Alan Keyes already lost

11/7/2008 12:37:13 AM

Quote :

"Bobby Jindal has a 100% pro-life voting record according to the National Right to Life Committee.[27] He opposes abortion without exception.[28][29] He does not condemn medical procedures meant to save the life of a pregnant woman that would indirectly cause the termination of the pregnancy.[30][29] Jindal also supports the use of emergency contraception in the case of rape.[29] He opposes embryonic stem cell research[31] and voted against increasing federal funding to expand embryonic stem cell lines.[27] As a private citizen, Jindal voted for the "Stelly Tax plan",[32] a referendum named for former state Representative Vic Stelly of Lake Charles, which swapped some sales taxes for higher income taxes. Whether or not the "Stelly Plan" is giving the desired results is still hotly debated statewide. Early Republican challenger Steve Scalise challenged Jindal on his vote for this tax plan before Scalise dropped out of the congressional race in 2004. As Governor, Jindal initially opposed reforms to the Stelly plan that would result in over $300 million in tax cuts. He later agreed to the tax cut after the legislature appeared headed to eliminating the entire personal income tax which Jindal also opposed.[33] Talk show host Moon Griffon subsequently refused to air radio ads paid for by the organization Believe in Louisiana crediting Jindal for Stelly reforms saying "Now, they are taking credit for the biggest income tax cut in the history of Louisiana and I felt like it was a lie. To be real blunt, very misleading and it was an outright lie because he had fought hard against it".[33] Jindal voted yes on making the PATRIOT Act permanent, voted in favor of the 2006 Military Commissions Act, supported a constitutional amendment banning flag burning,[34] and voted against the Real ID Act of 2005.[35] Jindal has an A rating from Gun Owners of America.[citation needed] He was a member of the conservative Republican Study Committee.[36] In 2006, Jindal voted with the Republican Caucus 97 percent of the time during the 109th Congress.[37] Jindal also supports co-payments in Medicaid.[38] In 2006, Jindal sponsored the Deep Ocean Energy Resources Act (H.R. 4761), a bill to eliminate the moratorium on offshore oil and gas drilling over the U.S. outer continental shelf, which prompted the watchdog group Republicans for Environmental Protection to issue him "an environmental harm demerit".[39] Jindal's 2006 rating from that organization was -4, among the lowest in Congress. The nonpartisan League of Conservation Voters also censured Jindal for securing passage of H.R. 4761 in the House of Representatives; the group rated his environmental performance that year at seven percent, citing anti-environment votes on 11 out of 12 critical issues. Jindal's lifetime score from the League of Conservation Voters is seven percent.[40] Despite claims that Jindal's bill was successful,[41] H.R. 4761 was replaced by S 3711 (known as the Domenici-Landrieu Fair Share Plan). The original Senate version was passed by both houses of Congress and signed by President Bush.[42] In 2007, Jindal led the Louisiana delegation in Congressional earmark funding. According to Taxpayers for Common Sense, in 2007, Jindal's earmark funding was 14th among all Congressmen.[43] As Governor in 2008, Jindal used his line item veto to strike $16 million in earmarks from the state budget while allowing $30 million in legislator added spending.[44] Jindal supports the teaching of intelligent design in public schools.[45] On June 25, 2008, Jindal signed the "Sex Offender Chemical Castration Bill", authorizing the chemical castration of those convicted of certain sex offenses.[46]"

i hope not

11/7/2008 1:52:18 AM

^ Yikes.

11/7/2008 2:13:50 AM

As much as I would like to see him run for a variety of reasons, Bobby Jindal seems like one of the few politicians who says, "I have no desire to run for national office," and actually means it. I wish McCain had been able to convince him to run as VP, or at least give a big address at the convention this year, but it seems he's content running his state.

11/7/2008 2:42:31 AM

hmm, if a lot of that up there is true, not a fan. i need to do more research.

however, i support this (didn't even know such a bill ever existed)

Quote :

" Jindal signed the "Sex Offender Chemical Castration Bill", authorizing the chemical castration of those convicted of certain sex "

All child molesters should be castrated.

11/7/2008 7:08:08 AM

A black man -- actually, HALF black -- just became President of the US. It will still be quite some time before Indians (dot, not feather) and Asians could become President of the US.

11/7/2008 7:16:18 AM

Quote :

"In 2006, Jindal sponsored the Deep Ocean Energy Resources Act (H.R. 4761), a bill to eliminate the moratorium on offshore oil and gas drilling over the U.S. outer continental shelf, which prompted the watchdog group Republicans for Environmental Protection to issue him "an environmental harm demerit".[39] Jindal's 2006 rating from that organization was -4, among the lowest in Congress. The nonpartisan League of Conservation Voters also censured Jindal for securing passage of H.R. 4761 in the House of Representatives; the group rated his environmental performance that year at seven percent, citing anti-environment votes on 11 out of 12 critical issues. Jindal's lifetime score from the League of Conservation Voters is seven percent"

No thanks.

11/7/2008 7:19:08 AM

He's exactly the kind of person the GOP needs on the national stage. Not a capitulator, not somebody who will cave into the whims of those who are going to hate him regardless, but somebody who is principled and idealogically sound.

11/7/2008 8:31:03 AM

He's not ideologically sound, he's a pretty far right wing douchebag. The republicans need someone who ditches the social batshitism of conservative christians and is fiscally conservative. Someone akin to Guiliani (but less sleazy) or Romney (but less sleazy).

11/7/2008 8:46:17 AM

^ In other words, Republicans need to become more like the other party to win? Odd. That's exactly what Republicans advised Democrats to do for 10 years after the 1994 Republican Revolution. Tell me, man. Did it work????????

No one knows what the Republicans need to do at this point. Libertarians think it needs to become more libertarian. Evangelicals think it needs to be more evangelical. Pat Robertson think it needs to become more like Pat Robertson (anti-immigrant, anti-trade, anti-foreigner).

No one has any clue about what needs to happen in the Republican Party. So why do so many blovators sound so confident about it?

11/7/2008 9:04:04 AM

Being as objective as possible, in order for the GOP to win again they must remember Reagon. Socially conservative AND fiscally conservative moving to the center. A canidate that reminds voters of the good old days.

Now, in my biased opinion, I think Bobby Jindal will be a great candidate for the GOP! Transplanting the famous Obama grassroots campaign strategy to Booby will exact the same results indeed. Excellent choice.

11/7/2008 9:25:41 AM

That guy is a nut case!!

11/7/2008 9:34:04 AM

Quote :

"Jindal voted yes on making the PATRIOT Act permanent"

one question -- Where would he, as a governor of a state, get to vote on the Patriot act? I don't think he was ever a senator or congressman, so how is this possible?

11/7/2008 10:01:11 AM

Quote :

"No one knows what the Republicans need to do at this point. Libertarians think it needs to become more libertarian. Evangelicals think it needs to be more evangelical. Pat Robertson think it needs to become more like Pat Robertson (anti-immigrant, anti-trade, anti-foreigner). No one has any clue about what needs to happen in the Republican Party. So why do so many blovators sound so confident about it?"

This mentality sounds like a good way to lose again.

If no one knows where they have to go from here, that's even BIGGER problems for the Republican party, because it means not only do they lack competent leadership, they lack ANY leadership.

One of those bloviators is going to end up being the new ideological leader of the right. With Jindal, Between opposing stem cells and supporting the teaching of Creationism in a science class, I can't see the mainstream picking him up. That is unless these are positions he takes to appeal to the base in La. rather than what he actually believes, and he changes them for a national position.

And it seems odd the right has been crying about "white guilt" the past year, but they are pushing Jindal as "the right's Obama."

[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 10:11 AM. Reason : ]

11/7/2008 10:11:04 AM

Jindal thinks that he cured a friend's cancer using an exorcism when he was in college.

That's all you need to know.....

11/7/2008 10:44:51 AM

Quote :

"He's exactly the kind of person the GOP needs on the national stage."

if they want to get crushed even more severely than in the last 2 elections.

11/7/2008 10:54:45 AM

Jindal is the right's version of Obama, except with more experience.

Obama's stance before running for President was seeming the exact opposite of Jindals.

interesting.

11/7/2008 10:56:22 AM

[user]BobbyJindal[/user] aint shit

i'd rather vote for BobbyDigital

11/7/2008 10:57:35 AM

lmao, go ahead and pick Jindal in 2012, GOP. I'm sure he'll do great.

11/7/2008 11:13:00 AM

Quote :

"A black man -- actually, HALF black -- just became President of the US. It will still be quite some time before Indians (dot, not feather) and Asians could become President of the US."

As I recall he became governor of Louisiana pretty handily, despite it being a bigtime red state without a notable Indian population.

11/7/2008 11:17:33 AM

I am shocked that you have a positive opinion of this guy, GrumpyGOP.

[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 11:22 AM. Reason : at least in political terms.]

11/7/2008 11:21:26 AM

Doesn't this guy support teaching creationism in school too? Yeah, no thanks. I would hope the Republicans learned from the whole Palin fiasco to avoid social conservative extremists in future elections.

11/7/2008 11:26:55 AM

Jindal/Palin, thats the ticket!

Quote :

"The republicans need someone who ditches the social batshitism of conservative christians and is fiscally conservative."

Quote :

"^ In other words, Republicans need to become more like the other party to win? "

so the left is neither batshit crazy and is fiscally conservative. Thanks for the compliments.

11/7/2008 12:07:30 PM

^^ to be fair, he supports teaching "intelligent design" in public schools, which is not exactly the same thing as Creationism, especially the "young earth" variety (although I wouldn't be surprised if he is, in fact, a Young Earth Creationist).

I don't know whether or not he supports teaching ID alongside or in place of evolution.

11/7/2008 12:27:26 PM

Duke, you're a smart guy. I hope that you can understand that ID is simply a thinly veiled wedge to get Creationism and religion into schools. The IDers who testified at the Dover trials openly admitted in court that this was the case.

11/7/2008 12:35:15 PM

^^ All the ID proposals have been Young Earth Creationism rebadged.

There is a notion of "intelligent design" that doesn't require a young earth, but it's purely philosophical/religious, and actually has no bearing on science. This is different than Intelligent Design of the Discovery Institute type which says that science has it wrong.

11/7/2008 12:43:00 PM

^^, pretty much. ID is Creationism just renamed to try and get it pass the legal system and into schools.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/

Great series on the issue.

The Intelligent Design book that was pushed in Dover, "Of Pandas and People" was proven to be just a renamed and slightly edited version of "Biology and Creation." Whoops.

[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 12:48 PM. Reason : .]

11/7/2008 12:48:41 PM

I'm not siding with him, and I know what ID ultimately boils down to. I'm just saying that the statement that he supports teaching Creationism in public schools is not exactly correct.

Call him out, but do it accurately and without twisting anything. Words mean things.

11/7/2008 3:02:26 PM

The point is Creationism IS Intelligent Design. Words do mean things, but in this case they mean the exact same thing.

11/7/2008 3:37:58 PM

Duke, I don't know where you think you're going with this, but you're either misinformed, or you're intent on splitting the finest semantic hair.

plain and simple, ID is a subterfuge... it is a poorly-veiled front for Creationism. Not only is this widely understood by everyone who has studied the issues, it has been ruled as such by a Federal judge -- who happens to be a Republican, a Christian, and who was appointed to the Federal bench by George W. Bush.

you can read Judge John E. Jones' 139-page ruling in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District, where he unequivocally rules ID as nothing more than Creationism repackaged in an attempt to sneak it in public schools through the back door:

http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf

or you can read the summaries:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/20/intelligent.design/index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/judge.html







[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 3:50 PM. Reason : ]

11/7/2008 3:43:27 PM

Quote :

"I'm just saying that the statement that he supports teaching Creationism in public schools is not exactly correct. Call him out, but do it accurately and without twisting anything. Words mean things."

True, but didn't we learn the lesson about that from the Bush administration? People tend to use creative words to mask the true nature of what they're doing.

It's not torture, it's "enhanced interrogation techniques."

They aren't prisoners, they're "detainees."

It's not civil war, it's "secretarian violence."

It's not creationism, it's "intelligent design."

EDIT: I probably shouldn't be using analogies from the Iraq war when trying to reason with a Marine, should I?

[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 3:54 PM. Reason : ]

11/7/2008 3:51:19 PM

Dear lord, Wikipedia is about as left as one can get!

Quote :

"Doesn't this guy support teaching creationism in school too? Yeah, no thanks. I would hope the Republicans learned from the whole Palin fiasco to avoid social conservative extremists in future elections."

This whole "Jindal believes in Intelligent Design and Creationism" is based off his signing SB733 that specifically:

Quote :

"The new law requires teachers to follow the standard curriculum, but allows a school district to permit a teacher to supplement his course with additional scientific evidence, analysis, and critiques regarding the scientific topics taught to his students... Section 1D clearly states that the law "shall not be construed to promote any religious doctrine, promote discrimination for or against a particular set of religious beliefs, or promote discrimination for or against religion or non religion.""

The law is designed to give teachers the flexibility to teach beyond the textbook. For hot topics like global warming, cloning, and other cutting edge research that may fly in the face of what the mandatory curriculum teaches.

Of course the idiot religious organizations want to use this to get their doctrine into schools. Of course the left-wing moonbats think there is an underlying conspiracy to do just that. This is politics, plain and simple.


----------------------

If you want to fault Jindal for his positions, really the only ones that are valid are his stupid stances on the War effort. He voted AGAINST the Real ID, one of the few on either side of the aisle in washington standing up for privacy of his people.

----------------------

People give him shit for being so unenvironmentalist. He is the governor of one of, if not THE poorest state in the nation. Should he ONLY allow clean policy, or should be advocate to get more revenue into his state to raise the standards of living for his people? The whole income tax debacle only affected the RICH people in the state, again, trying to raise the standards for his constituents.

Same reason he takes so many earmarks. He is in a POOR state that needs HELP to bring itself out of a shitty situation. He has done a pretty damn amazing job given his limited time in politics and has brought major reform to every position he's held so far.

11/7/2008 4:32:13 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design

Quote :

"Intelligent design is the assertion that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection." It is a modern form of the traditional teleological argument for the existence of God, modified to avoid specifying the nature or identity of the designer. The idea was developed by a group of American creationists who reformulated their argument in the creation-evolution controversy to circumvent court rulings that prohibit the teaching of creationism as science."

11/7/2008 4:40:27 PM

^i think we are all aware of what ID is. Someone shoudl have just PM'd TheDuke, rather than piling this shit up in the thread.

11/7/2008 4:52:31 PM

Quote :

"plain and simple, ID is a subterfuge"

95% agreed.

but since everyone understands this, let's be accurate with the facts. ID is subtly different from Creationism. That's the whole point of it, actually. I count support of teaching ID generally as a negative, too, but not as much of a negative as wanting to teach full-blown, out of the closet Creationism.

Quote :

"EDIT: I probably shouldn't be using analogies from the Iraq war when trying to reason with a Marine, should I? "

Eh, I fall to the left on all of those, except civil war/sectarian violence is a grey area (and nowadays, I'd definitely say the latter).

I know Republican registered and voting Marines who are here in Iraq right now who are critical of the way this thing has been handled (and even that we invaded to start with). I don't know of any who think we should be trying to leave any faster than the situation dictates (either strategically or from the Iraqi gov't).

11/7/2008 5:06:10 PM

Quote :

" All child molesters should be castrated."

and not the easy way with chemicals

im thinking more along the lines of marsellus wallace style

Quote :

"What now? Let me tell you what now. I'ma call a coupla hard, pipe-hittin' niggers, who'll go to work on the homes here with a pair of pliers and a blow torch. You hear me talkin', hillbilly boy? I ain't through with you by a damn sight. I'ma get medieval on your ass."

11/7/2008 5:13:10 PM

^ the only problem with that is the the way our legal system works, someone who's not ACTUALLY a child molester could be branded as such, and get unfairly caught with the castration.

Wasn't there a case recently where some 17 yo that just turned 18 was branded as a child molester because his gf was like 15 or something?

11/7/2008 5:19:25 PM

should be up to a jury .. but legit child molestation cases i would not be against by any means

11/7/2008 5:21:21 PM

^ yeah, that's the problem. It's extremely difficult to make a law that's "perfect" and juries make mistakes plenty of times.

11/7/2008 5:22:52 PM

cruel and unusual punishment interrupts justified punishment unfortunately

[Edited on November 7, 2008 at 5:38 PM. Reason : ^ also what you said]

11/7/2008 5:38:22 PM

Quote :

"I count support of teaching ID generally as a negative, too, but not as much of a negative as wanting to teach full-blown, out of the closet Creationism."

it's illegal to teach creationism in schools.

you can't do it, no matter how much you want to. there's a pesky thing in the US Constitution called "Separation of Church and State"

so you repackage creationism as "intelligent design" and try and sneak it in.

intelligent design, like creationism, has no scientific credibility whatsoever. its precepts have never been submitted to peer review, and its been thoroughly debunked as nonsense.

now, look. you're a commissioned officer. you've taken a vow to DEFEND the Constitution, not INTERPRET it.

so get defendin' and quit interpretin'

:-)

11/7/2008 7:30:17 PM

yes, yes, no shit. i agree with you on all counts (except for those last 2 lines).

now quit misinterpreting what i'm saying.

11/7/2008 7:46:13 PM

Seriously.

VIOLENT EXORCISMS.

You people.

11/8/2008 12:10:27 AM

good point.

let us speak to Bobby Jindal's personal experience directing a forceful exorcism of his demonically possessed best friend, while attending an Inter-Christian Fellowship at Oxford University.

see this is what happens with Hindoos. you bring them to the West, carrying along all their multiple-armed, elephant-faced gods and demons, and then expose them to nutter Catholics and other assorted fundamentalist moonbats ... and they have a brain meltdown or something, and dive off the deep end.

11/8/2008 2:49:23 AM

And so we see the start of the predictable aggressive backlash to presidents having religious beliefs.

Quote :

"Jindal thinks that he cured a friend's cancer using an exorcism when he was in college. "

So? Unless he plans to support exorcism-based health care I don't see how this is a problem. Every religious person in the world believes in equally weird shit, including but not limited to the following:

-Salvation can be achieved only by ritualistically cannibalizing the founder of your religion
-Said founder healed blindness by spitting into dirt and rubbing the dirt-spit on a dude's eyes
-Salvation can be facilitated by kneeling on a doormat according to a specific geographical orientation
-Illnesses can be healed by having a man in a dress put oil on your forehead
-If you are a good boy or girl, you will be rewarded when you die by being reborn as a barnyard animal
-If you don't wear a hat, an invisible superhero will be very angry at you

Basically, the only way to vote for a politician who doesn't believe in ridiculous bullshit is to vote for a candidate who is not only nonreligious but who also doesn't believe in an ridiculous secular bullshit. At the moment we've elected a guy who believes that "a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree."

Unless he's pushing pro-telepathic zombie legislation through congress, I don't give two fucks.

Quote :

"I am shocked that you have a positive opinion of this guy, GrumpyGOP."

I disagree with some of his positions, but I think they are ones that are far more politically expedient for a Republican in Louisiana than they are likely to be for a Republican nationally in the near future. The backlash against some of Bush's religiously-motivated policies is deserved, and this guy seems like a sharp enough guy to play his cards right in this regard. Barack Obama cooled off on some things (gun control springs to mind), and I think Bobby Jindal could do the same when it comes to something as ludicrously irrelevant (not to mention outside the scope of presidential power) as promoting intelligent design. Even if not, so what? Bush liked ID and it still remained primarily a state matter, and primarily a retarded state matter to boot.

As for the rest? Abortion isn't going anywhere no matter how much he hems and haws about it. Go ahead and castrate the child molesters and drill for the oil. Guns are cool, Medicaid is a clusterfuck, I'm OK with military tribunals for unlawful combatants (a designation I also agree with), and above all else, I didn't say I wanted him as President. I wanted him as Vice President under McCain. He could have accomplished most of the early good that Palin did in terms of bolstering the GOP in polls without doing near as much the harm whenever he got interviewed.

11/8/2008 2:59:31 AM

^Did you completely ignore my post?

From everything I've read, the whole argument of "Jundal support ID in schools" is based off of his support of a state bill to allow competing scientific theory into the classroom, with specific provisions against religious backed, oriented or motivated content. I've yet to find a quote, soundbyte, or any other shred of actual evidence of Jindal SAYING that was his motivation, or that he supports ID pusher groups in trying to use the law to push ID into schools.

It's fucking bullshit.

11/8/2008 3:28:13 AM

^^Because there are plenty of issues that his religion will affect his signing/veto on, including but not limited to:

-Secularism
-Religion in schools
-Stem cell research
-Homosexual marriage
-Abortion
-Going to war because you feel it is your mission from God
-Pillaging the resources of the Earth because, "hey, the end of times are coming soon anyway."

Fundies are fucking crazy. DON'T elect them.

11/8/2008 12:16:58 PM

Jindal is not the man right now, according to GOP likely voters polled. Of course, things could and probably will change.

Quote :

"When asked to choose among some of the GOP's top names for their choice for the party's 2012 presidential nominee, 64% say Palin. The next closest contenders are two former governors and unsuccessful challengers for the presidential nomination this year -- Mike Huckabee of Arkansas with 12% support and Mitt Romney of Massachusetts with 11%. Three other sitting governors – Bobby Jindal of Louisiana, Charlie Crist of Florida and Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota – all pull low single-digit support."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_2012/69_of_gop_voters_say_palin_helped_mccain

11/8/2008 1:07:12 PM

Quote :

"64% say Palin."

Wow... this, even after FOX NEWS reported that she was completely unqualified? I just don't get it. How can so many people still give her their support?

11/8/2008 2:13:02 PM