Stupidest fucking thing i have heard come from the GOP in this election so far.

Thank you colin powell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh_c5bbvmqc

10/19/2008 11:25:05 PM

It's a marginally better tactic than implying he's a terrorist.

GG McCain on such high standards.

10/19/2008 11:26:16 PM

This thread will change everyone's perception!

10/19/2008 11:26:21 PM

It might be marginally more effective if McCain wouldn't keep trotting out his own pinko credentials by say, proposing we nationalize bad mortgages. Or "suspending" his campaign in order to shill for the $700 billion bailout.

...yeah. Pot, meet kettle.

10/19/2008 11:33:57 PM

FYI, the vast majority of Americans are socialists.

10/19/2008 11:50:47 PM

Quote :

"the vast majority of Americans are socialists"

10/19/2008 11:54:51 PM

http://www.whiterabbitcult.com/

10/20/2008 3:30:47 AM

uhhh, I think that it's a pretty fair accusation, but... ^^^^

10/20/2008 3:42:15 AM

Yeah - "I just want to spread your wealth around"

Thanks Barack. You and Carl Marx want to spread my Wealth around. Great.

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 7:52 AM. Reason : asdf]

10/20/2008 7:51:40 AM

Quote :

"Carl Marx"

I think you mean Karl Marx, idiot.

10/20/2008 7:55:09 AM

10/20/2008 8:44:05 AM

the truth of the matter is that we are in a huge national debt and cutting programs and spending alone will not get us out of the hole. we NEED to raise taxes. what Obama is purposing is that we tax the wealthy more then the poor. makes sense to me since the weathy are more able to afford higher taxes. now when I make over $250,000 per year I'll probably start voting Republican, but sense I don't I'm going for Obama.

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 8:58 AM. Reason : .]

10/20/2008 8:57:45 AM

Quote :

""

i am a socialist

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 9:08 AM. Reason : mccain is a desperate fool]

10/20/2008 9:08:23 AM

He wants to spread the wealth... that means he's a panderer, not a socialist.

10/20/2008 9:13:27 AM

^^^ eh I HATE when people state that they would vote differently if they made more money simply so their taxes would be lower. You're out and out stating your fine with taking money from people that make more than you since its not your money, but if you were in their shoes you wouldn't let that happen?

I am fine with you taking a stance either way, but straddling the line like that is BS to me. If you really think that we NEED to raise taxes and that it makes sense to raise the taxes more on the wealthy, then you better be ready to accept those taxes if you actually were someone in that bracket.

I am not arguing party lines here as I am not voting repub or dem but I just facepalm irl whenever I hear people make those kind of statements.

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 9:14 AM. Reason : ]

10/20/2008 9:14:06 AM

CTA...that's exactly what i'm saying. I'm a selfish pig and I vote for what's best for ME. I believe that most republicans do the same.

10/20/2008 9:17:13 AM

i wish we would switch the the fair tax system.

10/20/2008 9:19:41 AM

i'm not sure i've ever heard John McCain say that Obama was a socialist.

So it seems kinda dumb to complain that Obama doesn't fit the true definition of a socialist (everyone seems to agree that the "spread the wealth" comment reeks more of class warfare or pandering than socialism per se) when McCain never said other wise.

But please continue your self-righteous chest scratching. Everyone needs to go through this phase at least once in their lives.

10/20/2008 9:45:04 AM

lol jesus christ

the "meaning of fucking life" in here

10/20/2008 9:48:09 AM

Quote :

""You see, [Mr Obama] believes in redistributing wealth, not in policies that help us all make more of it. Joe, in his plainspoken way, said this sounded a lot like socialism," Mr McCain said Saturday. In an interview with ABC last week, Mr Wurzelbacher said that the Democrat's proposal to raise taxes by 3 per cent on those making $250,000 and over was a "very socialist view." Continuing in his radio address, Mr McCain said: "At least in Europe, the socialist leaders who so admire my "

Quote :

""Joe suggested that that sounded a little bit like socialism. Whatever you call it, I call it bad medicine for an ailing economy, and it's what Barack Obama will do to those who want to create jobs, and we're willing to call Barack Obama on it," [Palin] said."

http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/world/pakistan/international-affairs/mccain-attacks-obamas-socialist-tax-plans-$1245389.htm

Quote :

""Extreme? You really think hes an extremist? I mean, he's clearly a liberal," interviewer Dave Helling asks. "That's his voting record," McCain responds. "All I said was his voting record, and that is more to the left than the announced Socialist in the United States Senate, Bernie Sanders of Vermont." "Do you think hes a socialist, Barack Obama?" Helling asks. McCain responds with a with a shrug, "I don't know.""

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/18/mccain-obama-socialist-i_n_113524.html

Quote :

"Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin continued the Republican ticket's attempt to tie Sen. Barack Obama to what it calls socialist economic policies, attacking in new language Obama's plans to offer tax credits to those paying no income taxes and saying that "now is no time to experiment with socialism." "

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/10/palin-invokes-s.html

Quote :

""I think his plans are for redistribution of wealth. That's one of the tenets of socialism," McCain told Fox, claiming it was a historic position of liberal Democrats."

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/10/19/america/NA-US-Elections.php

10/20/2008 9:55:04 AM

Quote :

"I'm a selfish pig and I vote for what's best for ME. "

yep, rational self-interest -- the foundation or economic theory

10/20/2008 10:00:56 AM

^Your disdain for economic theory (and by proxy, economists) might put you in better company with McCain than Obama...

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 10:15 AM. Reason : .]

10/20/2008 10:14:39 AM

agent,

and in all of those quotes, McCain never directly calls Obama a socialist. Each time, he's quoting Joe the Plumber. Indeed, when directly asked if he thinks Obama is a socialist, he says he doesn't know. The closest of any of those quotes is the one sentence from the Fox interview, but even there he doesn't directly say Obama is a socialist.

But, like I said, I'll let you crawl through pages of MSNBC articles that you JUST KNOW is out there that will seal your case. I mean, that McCain is so EVIL and RACIST he must have said it. HE MUST HAVE!

I'll be chilling in chit chat. Peace, cat.

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 10:30 AM. Reason : ``]

10/20/2008 10:22:05 AM

you're being completely ignorant and disingenuous if you don't think innuendo and insinuation aren't just as powerful or effective at making a point, while all the time providing plausible deniability for McCain.

not to mention, he will let Palin and his campaign do all the actual heavy-lifting of calling Obama a socialist so he can, again, claim plausible deniability.

10/20/2008 10:31:06 AM

I suppose the best term would be a "Social Democrat" or a follower of "Democratic Socialism." This is the way I have always thought of the blanket term "socialist," but I can see how one might be upset if they associate "socialist" with "communist," "marxist," etc, which also fit under the broader term Socialist.

10/20/2008 10:31:38 AM

I thought I heard him in the debate accuse obama of having a "socialist plan" or something like that.


You know whats funny? All the people I know that make over 250,000 are voting for obama. Most of the people I know who make under 250,000 (hell, under 100,000 for that matter) are voting for McCain. (of the people I have discussed this with of course...about 10-12)

There are 2 small business owners, one on each side. the one on the Obama side makes more money. Go figure.

10/20/2008 10:32:58 AM

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM. Reason : d]

10/20/2008 10:32:58 AM

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM. Reason : computer is messed up...sorry. ]

10/20/2008 10:32:58 AM

Barack Obama has never directly said John McCain or the Republican Party was a racist. But he isn't going to say they aren't either.

Quote :

"Sen. Barack Obama's chief strategist conceded that the Democratic presidential candidate was referring to his race when he said Republicans were trying to scare voters by suggesting Obama "doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills." [Socks: After repeated claims that he wasn't] "

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/Story?id=5495348&page=1

Political tactics: What's good for the goose....

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 10:48 AM. Reason : ``]

10/20/2008 10:34:34 AM

Obama was endorsed by Warren Buffet. 'Nuff said.

10/20/2008 10:53:48 AM

Colin Powell tries to dismiss the fact that Obama is in fact a socialist.

He says that taxes go back to the people who pay them in the form of roads and infrastructure. But the bottom 45% of income-earners pay no income taxes at all. So they are getting a free ride on those roads. Would Powell agree with that?

And I haven't heard Obama say that he wants to raise taxes in order to build roads. He wants to make things fair...and spread the wealth around.

10/20/2008 10:54:52 AM

it is in everyone's selfish economic interest to not let them eat cake. money/capital/wealth, is ultimately nothing more than a conduit for what we value. value is at the root of all motivations.

the point is to make as many individuals as possible, stakeholders in actual value, so that you get the true market effect of price efficiency.

this is the point the progressives try to drive home. this is why democracy is the most successful form of government of earth.

nature abhors a vacuum, therefore both communism and la sez faire government are ultimately self destructive. the trick is to not drift too far towards either side -- the practical reality is to bend in order to not break. like biological life itself, policy is a a dymanic equilibrium.

we need leaders that understand this. what i will be voting on is the ticket that is intelligent enough to understand it, and lead accordingly. as it stands, one of the tickets seems to have a monopoly on intelligence in general, let alone this concept.

10/20/2008 11:18:13 AM

^...../thread

10/20/2008 11:23:52 AM

Quote :

""He and Gov. Palin have actually accused me of, get this, socialism," Obama said. "And you know why? Because I want to give a tax cut to the middle class. ... John McCain thinks that giving these Americans a break is socialism. Well, I call it opportunity, and there's nothing more American than that." Obama said that small businesses would not be hurt and the vast majority of Americans would benefit from his proposal to raise taxes on those making more than $250,000 and lower them on those making less. "If you make less than $250,000 .... you won't see your taxes increase one single dime. Not your payroll taxes, not your income taxes, not your capital gains taxes, nothing," Obama promised. "In the America I know, we don't just value wealth; we value the work and workers who create it." "

http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/3768007/

10/20/2008 11:46:46 AM

^^^ hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

what a joke.

biological life reaches equilibrium by destroying the weak. Those not able to function die, those with superior genetics live to pass on their genes. There isn't an all powerful force out there thats going to save the weak from death. That construct only exists in human culture.

Democracy is not as good as a well run dictatorship, its just that we're far more likely to have a poorly run dictatorship than a working democracy. However, theres no guarantee that we'll get a functioning democracy all the time. If the people aren't smart enough to understand the issues, they vote based on their perceived gains. In addition as the size and power of the government increases, the likelyhood of abuses increases.

So what you end up with is ignorant masses voting for someone pandering to their wants and desires in order to get elected. And then once there they use the position for personal gain.

The solution is better education + smaller government. Tax increases at any level of income are never good since they just aid the system in growth. Larger government results in more abuse of power which causes more growth and the cycle continues.

We can only hope that people will wise up and break the cycle.

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 11:49 AM. Reason : gfdh]

10/20/2008 11:49:24 AM

i would love to have a smaller more efficient government. like i said its a balance.

those who see it in black and white, don't really have much use of the grey matter -- therein lies the difference.

Quote :

"That construct only exists in human culture."

maybe now we can call it...

[/thread]

10/20/2008 12:02:44 PM

From the comments on the video...

Quote :

"can you believe that this guy is 71?? He's just one year younger than McCain but comes across as 10 times as competent and aware of the world around him."

HOLY SHIT

10/20/2008 12:06:15 PM

Obama is not a socialist, and neither are these guys

http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html

10/20/2008 12:11:49 PM

Quote :

"I HATE when people state that they would vote differently if they made more money simply so their taxes would be lower. You're out and out stating your fine with taking money from people that make more than you since its not your money, but if you were in their shoes you wouldn't let that happen? "

Way to vote on principle

10/20/2008 12:11:54 PM

Quote :

"nature abhors a vacuum, therefore both communism and la sez faire government are ultimately self destructive. the trick is to not drift too far towards either side -- the practical reality is to bend in order to not break. like biological life itself, policy is a a dymanic equilibrium."

Absurd. If that were so then we are doomed to failure, as governments the world over have retreated from ownership of the means of production. Or is it your assertion that owning 3% of the productive capital in the economy is just enough communism but owning 0% would be too little and therefore disaster?

10/20/2008 12:19:23 PM

Honestly, I feel really bad for wealthy people in the US. Very few people can understand their plight--just what a poor, disenfranchised group they really are. It's not fair...in fact, it's morally reprehensible!

Tonight, I'm gonna be sure to include people making more than a quarter million dollars a year in my prayers. God knows those poor bastards need all the help they can get right now.

10/20/2008 12:20:44 PM

Socialism is terrible.

Because you know, it would be terrible to live in the EU and have:

Free Healthcare
Free Schooling
A progressive social net
Better then average Job Security
Growing Economy
Currency worth more then Canadian Dollars

10/20/2008 12:21:30 PM

^^^^ wat


[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 12:24 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2008 12:24:23 PM

^^i'm not just directing this at you, but if people love the socialist policies in the european union, why don't they move there and enjoy it, instead of trying to completely transform the US?

10/20/2008 12:50:05 PM

Well you see there are those that want to keep this country as is, and those that want to improve it.

10/20/2008 12:53:55 PM

^^ you're not arguing against attempts in general at changing the US are you?

just the socialism part

[Edited on October 20, 2008 at 12:55 PM. Reason : +]

10/20/2008 12:54:49 PM

just attempts to change the US into a socialist country, correct

10/20/2008 12:56:11 PM

10/20/2008 12:59:30 PM

People reject socialism on the basis of big government, regulations and fiscal irresponsibility.

However any objective review of the last eight years will note that we've had:

1) Massive growth in government and governmental powers at the cost of personal liberty and privacy.
2) Massive deficits that have doubled the national debt to 10 trillion dollars.
3) None of the benefits of a 'socialist' system such as free healthcare. Quite the opposite, Healthcare costs are rising.

So honestly, I don't even know how any of you can argue against socialism with a straight face.

I suppose you can claim you're all libertarians, but deregulated financial systems don't quite work out that well, now do they ?

10/20/2008 12:59:39 PM

So you're using the last 8 years as an argument for socialism? The last 8 years were run by big government republicans. If anything the last 8 years and government expansion and spending should make people even more wary of socialism and even greater debt and government.

We don't need to change from the policies of the last 8 years by expanding government even more, I don't know how you could imply we should with a straight face

10/20/2008 1:08:14 PM