What says the Garage? Is the trend toward modifying vehicles (most common on fbody/mustangs and commonly available imports like civics and dsm's) on the wane? I feel like I certainly have been seeing less blatant ricer vehicles in the past two years or so. 90s cars are starting to go to the scrap yard, including fbodies. A lot of formerly expensive cars are seeing their values drop like a rock and their image tarnished (C4 anyone?). I see this a lot with 93-95 Rx-7's being trashed by younger owners who can't maintain such a demanding and unreliable vehicle.

Will the car scene come back with the eventual economic recovery? Or have we reached a long term trend, kind of like how the death of muscle cars (due to a similar spike in gas prices and demand for improved emissions) in the mid 70's maimed/killed the performance scene for a decade or more?

10/8/2008 2:56:02 AM

I think you are seeing the natural progression.

All those honda ricer/tuners are growing out of it, and moving on to real careers, and daily drivers. Lots have gone into legitimate venues. The problem is, the next generation hasn't really come along yet, and with car technology as it is, I don't know if there will really be a next generation of modern street tuners.

10/8/2008 3:17:04 AM

The only people who will still be doing this stuff will be people who own older vehicles that are able to get past emissions inspections or people who are damn good at tuning computers. If we get into electric cars I can imagine there will be performance mods for them, but it will be strange and will likely be more costly.

With this bullshit involving GPS and other driver observing devices being integrated into new vehicles it appears that owning a new car is going to become a legal nightmare. Anytime something breaks it's going to be blamed on you because all they have to do is look into your ECU and then see that you went WOT one day. Then that's it, they'll say that you clearly fucked up your own GTR by going WOT one time. I think it needs to be outlawed because it's almost a form of self incrimination as well as the fact that it forces you to give detailed information about yourself that no car company or mechanic should be able to view. You're being forced to save detailed information on your driving style and even where you've been WITH YOUR OWN CAR, which is way over the top. You should be able to decide whether or not to utilize such a data capture feature. They don't have the right to know where you've been or how you've driven your own car unless you decide that they may know IMO.

I can see this being somewhat legally OK with rental cars, but even they managed to take it way too far by giving tickets for every single time you exceeded the speed limit during the time you rented their car. That is completely retarded, the rental agency is not the government and not even the police would ticket you for going 56 in a 55. Just because technology can do something doesn't mean it needs to be done.

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 4:10 AM. Reason : ]

10/8/2008 4:00:13 AM

$$ is tight, theft is on the rise.

dont worry. the scene isnt going anywhere

10/8/2008 6:47:17 AM

baonest and I are here to stay!

ricers unite

oh and TKE-Teg

10/8/2008 7:46:02 AM

^fuck yeah man

Quote :

"but even they managed to take it way too far by giving tickets for every single time you exceeded the speed limit during the time you rented their car."

Please tell me who does this, b/c I rent cars all the time and have never had this issue. Honestly, I don't believe you.

I think the scene has died down. I think there are a few causes. Like it was mentioned, people are growing out of it. It was also mentioned that electronic nannies and whatnot are making it harder to modify. And finally, I think the Manufacturers offer much more attractive cars obtainable by most people than they did 10/15 yrs ago. In the mid 90s the hot car to have was the 170hp GS-R. Now look at the Cobalt SS or Mazdaspeed3; 260hp and 268hp. Evos and WRXs are commonplace now.

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 7:50 AM. Reason : rice or die!]

10/8/2008 7:50:12 AM

Quote :

"Please tell me who does this, b/c I rent cars all the time and have never had this issue. Honestly, I don't believe you."

First of all, I'm not saying that all rental companies do this, but it most certainly has been done and the technology is currently available to those that wish to purchase it. You don't have to believe me. The best part is that from what I understand no mention of this system was ever made to the people that rented the cars, their every move was tracked and their speed was tracked at all tiems. Then the fines were automatically charged to their credit card (At $150 per offense from my understanding).

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2001/07/45163

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9404EFDD153EF932A15751C0A9649C8B63

Quote :

"In the mid 90s the hot car to have was the 170hp GS-R."

Hah, we all know why you're saying that.

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 8:26 AM. Reason : ]

10/8/2008 8:15:01 AM

Quote :

"Anytime something breaks it's going to be blamed on you because all they have to do is look into your ECU and then see that you went WOT one day. Then that's it, they'll say that you clearly fucked up your own GTR by going WOT one time. I think it needs to be outlawed because it's almost a form of self incrimination as well as the fact that it forces you to give detailed information about yourself that no car company or mechanic should be able to view. You're being forced to save detailed information on your driving style and even where you've been WITH YOUR OWN CAR, which is way over the top. You should be able to decide whether or not to utilize such a data capture feature. They don't have the right to know where you've been or how you've driven your own car unless you decide that they may know IMO."

As long as redline is not exceded (as in miss shift) and fuel cutoff isn't triggered an extreme amount of times (bouncing it off the rev limiter) I dont think they should be able to void your warranty. I know they would though so I agree with what you're saying. Sucks

10/8/2008 8:17:24 AM

Yeah.

I'm sure you could fight it, but the company is so big that it will have a whole team of people looking for a way to legally legitimize the voiding of your warranty. Fighting that will be hard for the individual to do and would cost so much money that it would just make more sense to fix the car.

It vaguely reminds me of scientology's legal practices. They have so many (VERY good) lawyers and so much money that when you piss them off they just hit you with tons of illegitimate lawsuits and charges. They do it over and over for months and even years. There are folks who have been hit with well over 30 major lawsuits over a period of just a few years. Even if every one is dropped, you're kept doing nothing but going to court to deal with the charges and lawsuits that are continually dropped. Then if you take them to court over all of that, you have to take even more time off from work and you have to pay even more money to do it. It runs you into the ground very quickly.

10/8/2008 8:24:34 AM

^always got to bring in religion



CRUCIFY HIM!

10/8/2008 8:25:30 AM

scientology is not a religion though. Since it's just scientology that I bring up, that means that I never bring religion into it!

But in this case it's not scientology in particular, but their understanding of the legal system and how they can use it to their advantage that I'm referring to.

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 8:28 AM. Reason : ]

10/8/2008 8:26:58 AM

oh goodness.. Scientologists for lawyers...

10/8/2008 8:30:01 AM

regardless, this shit has no place in the garage

10/8/2008 8:33:55 AM

SaabTurbo, I wasn't referring to my GS-R (2nd Gen). I was referring to the 3rd gen. You can say I'm biased but most people would agree that car was the poster child.

A rental car company can't get away with that unless you sign off on it in the rental agreement. Some private company can't fine you for violating a government's laws, thats ridiculous!

anyway, back on OT

10/8/2008 8:38:15 AM

Quote :

"modding scene/fad dying out?"

NO

I can never remember so many speed shops open at the same time.

10/8/2008 8:54:04 AM

Quote :

"regardless, this shit has no place in the garage"

Chill the fuck out dude.

10/8/2008 9:02:55 AM

Quote :

"In the mid 90s the hot car to have was the 170hp GS-R"

yup

I'm not sure if it's died down. I think a ton of people went turbo and blew up their cars

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 9:12 AM. Reason : ]

10/8/2008 9:11:54 AM

GET OFF MY NUTZ SAAB



i think the clear tails and fart cans have become a staple for anyone with a 4-banger that attempts to enter the world of "mods".... usually the trashy bunch, to boot

10/8/2008 9:46:26 AM

Well, the "clear tails" are being provided left and right by retarded manufacturers who confuse ricers with standard people. Maybe future ricers will put on "standard tails."

10/8/2008 9:49:16 AM

clear tails -> altezza/euro tails -> jdm tails -> ??

10/8/2008 10:02:58 AM

clear tails -> altezza/euro tails -> jdm tails -> LED tails

10/8/2008 10:04:47 AM

Quote :

"Anytime something breaks it's going to be blamed on you because all they have to do is look into your ECU and then see that you went WOT one day."

I don't know about rental cars, but I mentioned in the GT-R thread that I think the "omfg Big Brother! Emissions laws!" thing is bogus. Almost any newer car worth modding has had its ECU hacked or will have it hacked soon. Even the GT-R which was hyped for its fascist ECU has been mostly cracked. Sure you have to pay for the software, but $500-$1000 for engine management is just normal these days. On other cars like GM's you just go to a shop and pay for the shop to flash your ECU and remove all the emissions CEL etc.

Quote :

"I can never remember so many speed shops open at the same time."

This is true. But what are their books looking like? How many will survive the downturn?

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 10:14 AM. Reason : .]

10/8/2008 10:13:31 AM

^ Right, and when you reprogram the ECU you void the warranty, so how does that solve the problem with the warranty?

10/8/2008 10:29:57 AM

all i know is that Willow Street Garage is going to be the happening shit when it gets opened up

buggies, 4x4 shit, and custom cars.


and by custom i mean civic/s2k hybrids

10/8/2008 10:40:03 AM

The street rod/mini truck scene is still alive and kicking harder than ever. The ricer movement came and went now its morphed into a mexican revolution and the ones that got their feet wet with ricers have grown up into nicer cars with less mods.

10/8/2008 10:52:03 AM

Quote :

""In the mid 90s the hot car to have was the 170hp GS-R""

That makes me laugh. Shit was slow in the '90s and still slow now.

But yes, a lot of today's new 4-doors have performance approaching or matching that of a mid 90s f-body or Mustang Cobra.

And no, the scene is still there, I just pay less attention to it as I get older. I've noticed that in the past 8 years or so, the type of performance that defines "fast" has changed dramatically. I guess it all depends on the company you keep, but it seems that 500hp cars are completely commonplace now, when they were uncommon prodigies 6 or 7 years ago.

10/8/2008 10:53:18 AM

i can safely say that no, it is not dying. at least not in the euro scene.

10/8/2008 11:01:37 AM

Quote :

"Right, and when you reprogram the ECU you void the warranty, so how does that solve the problem with the warranty?"

you flash it back to stock before you go to the dealership silly, or at least on a lot of cars you can do that...

10/8/2008 11:03:05 AM

Quote :

"That makes me laugh. Shit was slow in the '90s and still slow now."

I was talking about ricers and import enthusiasts. I know it wasn't fast and still isn't. (just for clarification).

10/8/2008 11:29:33 AM

OH NO I DONT HAVE A WARRANTY

oh wait... i bought a honda

10/8/2008 12:31:07 PM

Quote :

"clear tails -> altezza/euro tails -> jdm tails -> LED tails"

fuck you, man. i have LED taillights. my shit ain't rice, though.

10/8/2008 6:54:01 PM

so is the next ricer mod going to be hid tails?

10/8/2008 7:06:56 PM

^^me too.

i don't see anything dieing at all. in fact, imo there's been pretty extensive growth in all of the popular arenas over the past few years. i don't see it changing either.

i think like Noen said, you're probably just noticing that people are growing up/moving on to other things. i know that for me, a few years ago probably like 75% of my friends were into doing stuff with their cars. now, it's maybe 25%. other things take priority as people get older. then, there's always the crowd that does stuff because it's "cool". having a modified/nice car gets you lots of attention in high school and college, but not so much out in the "real" world.

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 7:09 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2008 7:08:19 PM

i don't know that the modding scene is dying out...i do think the ricer fad is finally fading some, though.

10/8/2008 7:08:22 PM

Quote :

"fuck you, man. i have LED taillights. my shit ain't rice, though."

woah there underPSI... I'm simply stating that there are now kits to convert your OEM/JDM/EDM (whatever) taillights to LED's. I'm just saying that's the next thing. Nothing like a 1980's civic dx with some LED tail lights... I'm not saying LED's are rice, but it is out there to be misused and abused by ricers... (heck I considered an LED setup replacement for my 944 until I saw some that looked retarded...)

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 8:27 PM. Reason : ./]

10/8/2008 8:27:21 PM

a lot of stuff comes factory with led's now. i agree a lot of altezza type lights look retarded, but i like led's.

10/8/2008 8:40:37 PM

^ I like them too, they're also significantly more noticeable IMO which I tend to think is safer.

10/8/2008 8:53:01 PM

Yeah, I wanted them for the "updated look" and safety factor. Two red 3x3 boxes on the corners isn't really enough to see at night, especially since they are dim (I replaced the bulbs). But oh well, I modded that, sorta.

10/9/2008 5:30:06 PM

I love my LED's

10/9/2008 6:53:40 PM

WOT: New Garage Catch Phrase

10/9/2008 7:08:20 PM