Trip is set for mid November...what kind of gear do I need? I have a nice pack and a tent but that's about it.

Really need some clothes, shoe suggestions, food, water purification, maybe a new sleeping bag, misc supplies etc

Plz to give me ideas people.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Home_
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/
http://www.rei.com/

10/1/2008 11:48:32 PM

why not ask REI? are they not guiding you?

10/1/2008 11:51:48 PM

I just bought a headlamp (Black Diamond Spot), but also considered the Petzl Tikka XP.
Detailed field test reviews found here http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Lighting/Headlamps%20-%20LED/

second the REI comment.

10/1/2008 11:54:26 PM

you don't really need that much gear man. flash light, some lighters, dry food/portable stove. water purifier/canteen, knife, compass, long sleeve tshirt, 2 tshirts, pair of pants, pair of shorts, 2 boxers, 3 pairs of socks. i'd say get a 0degree bag, other than that you should be pretty good to go.

10/2/2008 12:02:58 AM

paging Nerdchick and TheBullDoza, hiking the App trail should give them some insight on this.

10/2/2008 12:10:32 AM

^^

yep. less is more. headlamps are crucial if you are hiking or want to get around in the dark. wal-mart has some good ones too. their 115 lumen flashlights are the heat.

get a sock liner, hiking socks, a walking stick, one set of dishes, one knife and fork, hatchet/hammer, plastic tent spikes, etc...

10/2/2008 12:15:09 AM

I actually found this site just last week. They have all the info you could ever want. The company actually rents equipment as well. Check out their index page as well as the links page; includes maps, up to date weather, trail conditions, local sites of interests, trip planning, etc...

http://www.awalkinthewoods.com/index.html

http://www.awalkinthewoods.com/pages/wd_links.htm

10/2/2008 12:21:52 AM

Shoe suggestion:
Merrell Chameleon low tops. Super comfy right out of the box, tough as nails. I have pairs that I have put hundreds of miles on that I still wear around the yard or on trips around Lake Johnson

Get a few pairs of good great socks. Wrightsock coolmesh socks are good for something thin. They wick away moisture and dry quickly. REI house brand socks are good too and I know they come in thicker versions.

Make sure you have a good sleeping bag. A sleeping pad that gets you off the ground and away from the cold dirt is crucial. I like thermarest pads and the Big Agnes inflatable insulated pad.

[Edited on October 2, 2008 at 12:46 AM. Reason : l]

10/2/2008 12:35:58 AM

Might want to use synthetic (like underarmor similar material) underwear to minimize chaffing. I did outward bound for 9 days with some and had no problems.

Make sure your shoes are worn in or that you wear them around for a bit. They need to be comfortable so you aren't wanting to kill your shoes halfway through the first day.

10/2/2008 12:51:22 AM

i guess a tarp, if you're anticipating rain...

10/2/2008 1:13:04 AM

stove, food...i like oatmeal for breakfast, easy mac for lunch, random snacks, dinner varies
light, extra batteries
water purifier and bottle (i generally carry a 1-liter)
map/compass
a stove and cookwear
knife

and you should plan for sub-freezing temperatures and snow, and for being stuck in it for a day or two more than you expect

meaning extra clothes, extra food
gloves, hat
snow/rain outerwear
waterproof boots and warm socks
synthetic thermals
a good bag and pad
lighter and matches (waterproof match case is like a buck)

"less is more" is bad advice for a 5-day winter hike, imo

10/2/2008 1:17:42 AM

plastic grocery bags!
they come in handy a lot, and they barely take up any space. just bring a handful of them

10/2/2008 9:03:29 AM

produce bags from the grocery store work great for food bags, i dont think there is a lighter way to carry food.

10/2/2008 9:14:59 AM

it's the smokies. if you get lost, just hike north and you'll end up in gatlinburg or townsend

10/2/2008 9:21:03 AM

Quote :

""less is more" is bad advice for a 5-day winter hike, imo"

yeah thats kinda what I'm thinking. Whats the target weight for my pack? Its going to be 3-4 hours of hiking per day.


For shoes I have a pair that is a lot like these (Solomons) I was thinking about taking. Anyone see a problem with a shoe like this? Or do I need something more like a boot?

Quote :

"water purifier"

Can you guys link a good example of one?

10/2/2008 9:23:36 AM

boots. for sure.
you need something with ankle support, with sturdy/heavy soles, and is waterproof.

10/2/2008 11:22:09 AM

ask jason

10/2/2008 1:51:38 PM

I rolled through the Smokies on my thru-hike in December, but standard rules apply for that time or year. The weather can be all over the place in November, but plan on it getting below freezing every night. Also plan for 35 degrees and rain. Always have a spare set of dry thermals stashed away, and be ready to change plans if conditions get uber-shitty.

If you're going to be on the Appalachian Trail, you'll largely be on the ridgeline the whole time. It averages about 5,000' or so, and Clingman's Dome is 6,100 and change IIRC. I generally plan on conditions getting more dicey once you hit 3,500' or so. If you're getting your ass handed to you, go lower to warmer weather.

Maps - The National Geographic Map of the Smokies is the best one out there. Waterproofish, and very clear. You can get it locally at either Great Outdoor Provision Company or REI. DO NOT GO ON THIS TRIP WITHOUT THIS MAP!

Those shoes will be fine unless you get into really heavy snow, but then again, everything sucks in really heavy snow. I'd roll with what you have and take a few plastic bags for your feet if things really go south on. Hell, I thru-hiked the entire thing in Chacos.

A true twenty degree bag and full-length foam pad will be fine. You can rent both of these from the NCSU Outdoor Center for very reasonable prices. You'll also want to take either a homemade alcohol stove (practice a bunch first), or buy/rent another stove. I generally don't mess with white gas stoves anymore unless it's a true winter (constantly below 20 degrees) kind of trip. A MSR Pocketrocket will set you back about $40, and will work mostly ok unless it's below freezing for an extended time.

Do what you want for water treatment. Giardia fears are way overblown, but 3 drops of plain bleach to a quart of H2O or some iodine tablets will both work OK if it'll make you feel better. FWIW - I did a thru-hiker study awhile back, and only 7 people out of 550 reported ANY water-borne illness. That's over a million miles of collective hiking.

A headlamp is nice to have. Really, any one of the AAA headlamps out now will work. Walmart's got one (a Rayovac I think) that I've seen a bunch of people use, I've got a couple of Petzl Tikkas that I haven't killed and been happy with as well. Plan on using whatever headlamp you have a bunch, because it'll be getting dark around 5:30 or so. Yeah, that got old for the last couple of months I was on the trail

Clothes:
2 sets of synthetic thermals (one to wear, one to sleep/chill in)
1 fleece hat of some kind
a couple of bandanas (this should be the only cotton you carry)
3 pairs or socks or so
fleece mitt
a fleece headband's kind of nice if it's really, really cold.
sunglasses - there won't be leaves on the trees, and the sun will be rocking if it's clear
a little sunscreen (see above)
chapstick
TP
2 lighters
about 50' or=f cord
etc, etc

OK - I'm typed out. I've got a bunch more stuff on hiking, thru-hiking and whatnot on my website. PM me if you have any questions. My site is http://www.sourcetosea.net

10/2/2008 2:32:57 PM

you should probably go ahead an get your boots and start wearing them to break them in

10/2/2008 3:32:16 PM

I would suggest carrying more than 3 pair of socks, more like 6 or so. While you will only be hiking 3-4 hours a day, if the weather gets wet you will want a nice change of socks. Everything else is dependent on how much you want to carry weighted against how comfortable you want to be, but don't ignore your feet! Good boots (with ankle support), good socks (with plenty of extras), and some foot powder to suck up moisture. Even if it's dry and cold, your feet can/will get sweaty carrying a decent load.

10/2/2008 3:40:28 PM

for anyone into this stuff backcountry is having a 50% off sale on their outlet site. really nice sale...think it goes thru the 16th (but check the thread): http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?threadid=938635

10/2/2008 5:29:24 PM

in november it will be cold up there

BOOTS
a couple pair of wool socks
gloves
thermal underwear (long johns) to wear at all times
a fleece jacket and a windbreaking/water proof outer shell
a beanie or toboggan if you're from the south, whatever
a mircofleece type shirt to hike in / keep you warm
maybe a balaclava to protect against the wind
definitely a 0 or 15 degree bag. synthetic fill is the way to go. it's cheaper and will more easily dry out if it get wet...and in the smokies that's a possibility
a sleeping pad, inflatable or not....just something between you and the freezing ground at night

you'll definitely need a water filter, a stove, a few nalgenes or other way to carry water(keep them in your bag with you at night so you'll have liquid water in the morning)

i always take a platypus....much like a camelbak, it's just a plastic bladder with a hose that you can slide into most backpacks and pull the hose through for drinking on the go.

water proof matches, a lighter, a headlamp, a utensil to eat with, a knife, compass, maps, food (the freeze dried meals at REI are pretty good and easy, but kind of expensive)
i usually bring a few bungee cords and maybe 50 feet of rope. even though it's winter you should probably still hang your food/toiletry stuff up at night.

i could probably add a bunch of other suggestions but i bet most have already been covered anyway

10/2/2008 8:21:08 PM

Those Salomons are nice shoes, but I wouldn't come close to claiming they are suitable for hiking. They're waterproof and have good grip, but beyond that, they're recreational shoes. (They're the most popular type of shoe in the disc golf world.)
They are susceptible to ripping/tearing if you get your toe caught under a root or something. I've ripped a hole near the toe of mine, probably from tripping over a root or stump. Ruined the gore-tex on that shoe.

Real boots are necessary. High tops. Leather. Gore-tex.


The biggest concern for November in the Smokies is weather. It's very likely to be below freezing at night, and could be pretty close to it during the day. Warm hat, gloves, some sort of neck covering (scarf) would be nice. A sleeping bag that can handle 20 degrees or lower would be recommended. You'll be sleeping in socks, tights, a shirt, and maybe a hat. Make sure your clothing is relatively wind-resistant. Wool is better than cotton for just about everything - wind, water, heat.

Your pack will not be light. 50 pounds is very easy to eclipse. Don't pack for distance. Pack for survival (little dramatic there...). But seriously, the weather will be your biggest foe, and 5 days with lousy weather and not enough clothing SUCKS.
Luckily, since it'll be cold, you won't be sucking down water as much as you might during the summer. (however, be sure to say hydrated - just because you're not thirsty doesn't mean you don't need to drink.) Also, do not count on finding too much water lying around. You might have to carry 2-3 days worth of water on you at a time. It's very easy to go 3 days without seeing water. We've been in a drought for a long time, and November isn't really the wet season to begin with. Make sure you keep fill all your water bottles every chance you get.

10/2/2008 9:17:57 PM

Dude, water is not going to be an issue in the Smokies. I've never, in over 3,500 miles of backpacking, carried 3 days of water, in any location. Carry the map, know where you're at in relation to the standard water sources, and you'll be fine.

10/2/2008 11:18:49 PM

which of these look decent?

http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/MON0099/Montrail-Comp-Hiking-Shoe-Mens.html
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/DAN0016/Danner-Exo-Edge-DXTVent-Hiking-Shoe-Mens.html
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/VSQ0021/Vasque-Sundowner-GTX-Backpacking-Boot-Mens.html
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/DAN0010/Danner-453-GTX-Hiking-Boot-Mens.html
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/MON0063/Montrail-Torre-GTX-Hiking-Boot-Mens.html
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/LSP0094/La-Sportiva-Typhoon-GTX-Hiking-Boot-Mens.html
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/TNF1283/The-North-Face-Fortress-Peak-GTX-Hiking-Boot-Mens.html

10/2/2008 11:37:49 PM

you must go to a store and try them on. Even if you want to buy them cheaper online, go to REI or somewhere and try the models you're interested in. You can't buy hiking boots blindly w/o trying them

10/2/2008 11:41:05 PM

Quote :

"why not ask REI? are they not guiding you?"

NO! do this and you will end up spending $1000 on 60 lbs of worthless crap.

Quote :

"one set of dishes, one knife and fork, hatchet/hammer, plastic tent spikes, etc..."

NO! you only need one pot. anything else is extra unless you're some kind of insane wilderness chef. you shouldn't bring a hatchet or hammer unless you're Paul Bunyan.

Quote :

"light, extra batteries"

NO! how long are you going to have your headlamp on that you'll need a change of batteries? and if the batteries in your headlamp somehow explode, you'll be fine for 3 days without a light.

Quote :

"boots. for sure. you need something with ankle support, with sturdy/heavy soles, and is waterproof."

NO! I hiked 500 miles of the AT in sneakers. TheBullDoza is on mile 1,200 with trail runners similar to your Solomons. Those miles include Maine and the White Mountains, some of the toughest hiking on the AT. boots are not necessary if your pack is a reasonable weight. there is no such thing as a waterproof shoe

Quote :

"You might have to carry 2-3 days worth of water on you at a time. It's very easy to go 3 days without seeing water. "

NO! As Johnny Swank said, in the East you will not have to carry such a ridiculous amount of water. the Smokies are just about the rainiest place in America. I don't know where you got this information.

I'm all about hiking your own hike. There's gotta be one guy who carried a hatchet with him and loved every minute of it. But most hikers would dump stuff like that after the first 10 miles. Your hike is pretty short, so you'll be fine if you have the basics for a safe trip. You'll probably figure out what gear you like and don't like. I'm such a nerd I cut the end off my toothbrush to save weight, but I'd bring some luxury stuff for a few days hike. But not extra batteries

10/3/2008 12:36:43 AM

Quote :

"NO! I hiked 500 miles of the AT in sneakers. TheBullDoza is on mile 1,200 with trail runners similar to your Solomons. Those miles include Maine and the White Mountains, some of the toughest hiking on the AT. boots are not necessary if your pack is a reasonable weight. there is no such thing as a waterproof shoe "

ignore this.

get waterproof boots. its winter, its cold, its wet (icy) and it may snow. you need boots, you need the traction, and you need the support

[Edited on October 3, 2008 at 12:45 AM. Reason : .]

10/3/2008 12:44:02 AM

I knew I'd get shit for that. foot preferences vary a lot from person to person and I'm not saying synapse has to do it my way. but you guys are saying that if he deviates from your way, his shoes will fall apart and he is doomed. boots are not the only way to hike. thousands of people have safely hiked the AT with trail runners, including the Smokies in cold conditions.

10/3/2008 12:56:20 AM

nerdchick have you ever hiked in winter? just wondering

[Edited on October 3, 2008 at 1:02 AM. Reason : ,]

10/3/2008 1:02:09 AM

I have hiked in Colorado in slushy/snowy late Fall conditions. I wore sneakers with gaiters and thick wool socks. nowadays I'd probably do away with the gaiters. IMO, hiking in the snow sucks no matter what you're wearing. I prefer having light feet, rather than being weighed down by boots. I generate a lot of heat while hiking so I never had a problem with my feet getting cold. Again it's all my preferences, I'm just trying to say that you don't need a dogmatic attachment to boots

10/3/2008 1:13:07 AM

Hiking boots are way over rated unless you need the upper ankle support. Light is right!

10/3/2008 2:19:53 AM

Quote :

"Hiking boots are way over rated unless you need the upper ankle support. Light is right!"

I agree. I quit wearing hiking boots when I realized I didn't need that much support. Trail runners are what I always used, just like those Solomons. They make a Goretex version of them. Now I hike barefoot, but if I were to do a 5-day hiking trip in the snow, definitely trail runners.

It all depends on the person and their preferences/needs.

10/3/2008 7:37:00 AM

i really enjoy paddling and hiking. i have never gone for more than 7 days on one trip. compared to many of you it is nothing. but i am very excited that my wife and i are going camping for 3 days this month. she has never camped before so it should be very interesting. i am very excited and hope she enjoys. after reading this thread i forgot how much i really do love it.

10/3/2008 4:23:42 PM

That's awesome. Carry something that make her experience more enjoyable for her and you'll be a rockstar. Make some damn chamomile tea, carry an few expensive chocolate bars, and rub that girl's feet whenever. Outdoor lovin is good lovin.

10/3/2008 6:39:49 PM

Quote :

"NO! As Johnny Swank said, in the East you will not have to carry such a ridiculous amount of water. the Smokies are just about the rainiest place in America. I don't know where you got this information. "

I got that information from hiking around Mt Rogers last October. Saw 2 puddles on the first day. Saw 2-3 dry creekbeds on the second day, along with a bone dry well. Saw a creek on the 3rd day.
3 days, 1 creek. And a very low one at that. We were supposed to see many more. And the well was supposed to be, well, a well. Not a drop of water in it.

10/3/2008 7:47:05 PM

i almost forgot

BUY THIS BOOK! it is fucking awesome for hiking the smokies. all the information you'd ever need to know about every trail in the smokies

http://www.hardcoverdeals.com/rel/v2_viewupc.php?storenr=334&upc=0937207152&affnr=-2631&lowestUsed=1

10/3/2008 7:53:54 PM

Quote :

"NO! how long are you going to have your headlamp on that you'll need a change of batteries?"

I'm cheap and run my batteries to the very end, so those in my lamp at the moment could crap out on my next trip or three trips from now...I don't really know, so I carry extras. I've also accidentally left it on once or twice in the past. Three AAAs weigh about 0.75 oz, not a big deal.

But then, much of my hiking in and out is done at night, so light tends to be pretty important, while it may not be for others.

Quote :

"I cut the end off my toothbrush to save weight"

fuck that, I use a sand-saliva mixture and rub it around with my finger

10/3/2008 8:48:05 PM

you need a good synthetic set of thermal underwear (most important layer is one that contacts your skin. dont get that cheap 80's thermal shit from wal-mart. (cotton kills)

acrylic socks.

rain gear. (not a cheap poncho) pvc is tough and cheap, but heavy.

best cheap headlamp ive seen is a k2 from target. 85 lumens 17 bucks. and it even has a light on the back so people behind you dont run into you. You dont need a flashlight anymore with it.

toastie toes are the greatest things ever.

i would try and borrow a sleeping bag before i went out and bought an expensive mummy bag. I bought a -5 bag years ago and unless its cold as shit its uncomfortable and im done camping in the cold as shit range. had to get something more spacious and luxurious for my present style of camping- with a queen size air mattress.

a good bank robber ski mask isnt a bad idea either. cold wind on the face is no fun. also, chapstick.


I agree with boots. you will be walking on roots/rocks/puddles/stairs/ uphill in mud. vasque makes a good boot, and if you shop around you can get a good deal online.

basically what ive found is that no matter what the scenery, companionship, terrain, etc. if you are cold and wet you will be miserable.

10/4/2008 9:16:23 AM

when you guys say a good set of "thermals" is this the kind of thing you're talking about?

http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/SRP0075/Sherpa-Adventure-Gear-Baans-Tech-1-4-Zip-Top-Long-Sleeve-Mens.html?CMP_ID=SH_FRO002&CMP_SKU=SRP0075&mv_pc=r126

http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/SUG0144/Sugoi-Midzero-Zip-Neck-Mens.html

10/8/2008 10:30:48 AM

Quote :

"I got that information from hiking around Mt Rogers last October. Saw 2 puddles on the first day. Saw 2-3 dry creekbeds on the second day, along with a bone dry well. Saw a creek on the 3rd day. 3 days, 1 creek. And a very low one at that. We were supposed to see many more. And the well was supposed to be, well, a well. Not a drop of water in it."

did you have a guidebook? water sources can be located a little walk off the trail. and the Smokies are overflowing with water. the place gets like 100 inches of rain a year, and this year hasn't been a drought.

^ those would be fine. I'm a recent convert to wool because it stinks less than synthetic and still has the same beneficial properties. Merino wool can be expensive, but keep an eye out for sales.

this is where I got my wool long underwear for the AT. it's probably a bit thinner than you want for cold weather, though.

http://stores.channeladvisor.com/skiuniverse/Store/Search.aspx?key=i/o

one more thought, if you want to have any chance of starting a fire, bring a good fire starter. cotton balls smeared with Vaseline work great.

10/8/2008 12:30:13 PM

20% off REI coupon

Quote :

"I'm a recent convert to wool because it stinks less than synthetic and still has the same beneficial properties"

How would you know

Something nchick forgot to point out about wool is that as it dries, it gives off heat
I could go on and on, but I have a hard-on for wool (and cotton, and linen), so I'll stop now

10/8/2008 3:54:55 PM

Flip Flops son!


Real men hike in flipflops.


I hiked from Base Camp to Clear Creek at Philmont in nothing but a pair of Tevas. I think we figured it was ~30 miles on the route I took.




(don't hike in flipflops)

10/8/2008 5:47:55 PM

Quote :

"I hiked from Base Camp to Clear Creek at Philmont in nothing but a pair of Tevas."

were you a guide?

Our guide in 1994 that did the first 1.5 days with us hiked in Tevas too

10/8/2008 9:48:00 PM

Honestly I would not go hiking in the Smokies in November, but if you must be sure to bring WARM clothing and gear. You are hiking the AT right? In that case there are shelters less than a day apart that you can stay in for convenience and comfort, however I would bring a tent just in case (esp. in winter). A warm sleeping bag (at least -20 or more degrees for that time of year) and pad as well as layers of warm clothing (long underwear, coat, etc) are necessary. You may be able to get away with less warm clothing if you walk fast and get in your sleeping bag as soon as you reach a shelter/decide to camp. BTW the comment about wearing sneakers on the AT is definitely valid. Many thru hikers wear regular sneakers with no problem, however many wear boots, it's all preference. At the same time, though, I would recommend boots for a winter hike in the Smokies. One last thing- I believe you need to apply ahead of time for a permit to backpack legally in the smokies on the AT, and you have to plan shelters you will be going to (at least in Summer, may be different in winter). Good luck.

[Edited on October 8, 2008 at 9:59 PM. Reason : warmer bag]

10/8/2008 9:58:19 PM

and, uhh, watch out for wildlife.
Bears and coyote sitings have been on the rise in Western NC for a couple years now.

Of course, maybe you'll only run into bears that just want to eat fruit, like this one photographed outside of Boone last week

10/8/2008 10:44:26 PM