James Kunstler, author of several books on Urbanism, Suburban Sprawl, and Oil Dependency has put together, quite eloquently I think, the truth of the issue in Iraq. He doesn't show up at all on a quick search of TSB, with the exception of the mentioning of his name in passing in the thread on Vermont's supposed secession from the US.

In The Clusterfuck Nation Chronicle he writes:

Quote :

"This meme, which has been the mantra among supposed political "progressives" for years now, was reignited over the weekend with the publication of a memoir by former Bush press secretary Scott McLellan claiming that President Bush and his cronies wove a spell of lies to get a war in Iraq underway. This is the narrative that Americans tell themselves to prove that, if it weren't for bad leaders, we would be a morally upright nation. I don't think so. And, remember, I write the following as a registered Democrat (and an Obama voter in my primary state). Warning: many readers are not going to like this."

He cuts right to the heart of the issue in the post, which is far too long to post here. Here is a link for the more dedicated reader: http://www.kunstler.com/

Here are snippets I found particularly insightful:

Quote :

" But all the backward-looking crybaby complaints that "we were lied to" still doesn't answer the basic question: what should have been the appropriate response to the extreme injury of 9/11? A diplomatic protest? Another investigation by the UN? The surreptitious assassination of Arab troublemakers all around the world? I don't think the "we were lied to" contingent has a credible answer to this question."

And here is, I think, the height of the article's clarity:

Quote :

" There's another hugely important realm of inquiry that the "we were lied to" folks have never addressed: who lied to us about the way we live in this country? About the amount of oil we consume in the service of all our comforts and conveniences? About our extreme car dependence and what is required in our relations with the rest of the world to sustain it."

Quote :

" For my money, the "we were lied to" chorus only represents the obdurately self-righteous cluelessness in every band of the American political spectrum. We lied to ourselves. We continue to lie to ourselves every day."

Kunstler get's a lot of flack from a lot of people for his apocalyptic theories about where our country is headed, and his extreme take on the oil situation that puts us as a MadMax-esque wasteland in the not too distant future... but I think his take in this particular article, on the Iraq war is spot on. Any thoughts?

6/5/2008 6:27:05 PM

I totally disagree. It's definitely important to me that the administration lied to get us to go to war. The same people who don't give a fuck about politics are most likely the same people that are uneducated about our oil use and whatnot so his argument doesn't hold much water there. I don't see how you could take his position and not be for the war in Iraq which is something I am definitely not. I get his point, but I completely disagree with it. I just don't see the progression of his logic as being anything remotely sound...

"Well, we were lied to so that this administration could start an unprovoked war with a foreign country, but that's not important because we're so stupid as hell domestically."

That just doesn't jive with me.

6/5/2008 11:17:09 PM

Mr. Kunstler's writing is interesting, but too tangled up in his loathing of everything post modern, the moral righteousness of which seems so self-evident that he comes across as sophomoric.


Yeah, we really should examine ourselves to find out how we wound up at September 11th 2001 (they hate our freedom isn't the answer), and the Democratic Party sold its soul in 2003 for political expediency, but that doesn't change the fact that, if justice were truly to be served, an investigation would be initiated to determine who deliberately falsified evidence with the intent of misleading congress and the public (even if both groups should have known better, and they should) and the guilty parties should be tried and punished if convicted. And this includes the President.

6/6/2008 9:06:02 AM

Quote :

"Well, we were lied to so that this administration could start an unprovoked war with a foreign country, but that's not important because we're so stupid as hell domestically."

You have a strong point, but I think he almost doesn't go far enough, and that's the problem. We're not just stupid has hell domestically, but rather this unprovoked war wasn't just brought on by a few people up at the top and their shady dealings... We (the American people) asked for it... begged for it. We're so caught up in our own self-righteousness as a nation that we bought into something hugely expensive in both lives and money to "teach somebody a lesson." I don't think that there shouldn't be accountability for the administration here, quite the contrary... If there is good evidence of intentional fabrication of intelligence, quick, swift prosecution needs to happen.

I think though, what is being missed by the American public at large (and this is both democrats and republicans) is that there is a long standing pattern of lying to justify wars in both the past and present... not just in this country, but throughout history. The public seems to me to be akin to a child, throwing a tantrum when seeds sown for decades suddenly bear bad fruit.

He oversimplifies the situation a great deal, I agree. I just think that if we're going to look to blame someone for Iraq, we need to start with the American public, and then go up from there. There is plenty of blame to go around, and one way or another we'll be paying for it for generations.

[Edited on June 6, 2008 at 10:49 AM. Reason : .]

6/6/2008 10:48:07 AM