So im in the market for a HD camcorder.

The two I have been currently looking at are:

Canon HF10 - $950
Pros
- Seems like a better camera from reviews (better be for the price)
- 16GB internal memory
- From reviews, the charging/output ports are positioned in a good spot

Cons
- Way more expensive

Panasonic HDC-SD9 - $699
Pros
- Seems like a good HD camera, has a lot of "beginner" features from what i can tell
- Cheaper, which would allow me to buy memory cards and other accessories easily

Cons
- Seems like its got some poor design choices, like the positioning of the charging jack, etc..



Anyone have any opinions on these, or other models I havent looked at? Any advice/opinions you guys could offer would be awesome.

5/7/2008 11:21:42 AM

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-camcorders/4321-6500_7-6617259.html?tag=prmo1

i guess CNET is worth a read....

5/7/2008 3:06:48 PM

Thanks!

I hadnt come across that article in the few hours of reading i had done so far.

I stopped at Circuit City on the way home and bought the upgraded version of the Panasonic HDC-SD9, i bought the HDC-HS9, it has a built in 60gb hdd, and was only $80 more, and it came with a free 4GB memory card too.

So far i love this thing, its a really nice camera.

5/7/2008 7:11:01 PM

If you plan on shooting in low light, avoid the panasonic HS9. I've used it at one of my jobs to do nightlife stuff and it didn't work for most of the scenes. Not to mention with most of these camera's, on board mic suck ass, so invest a little to get a nice shotgun mic.

oh well... nevermind, already bought it. My internet cut off before I could post. Other than poor low light performance, it's a decent video camera. The good things about cameras coming out now is that most support 24p. Wished the HD pro camera's would drop down in price to somewhat affordable.

[Edited on May 7, 2008 at 7:29 PM. Reason : ]

5/7/2008 7:26:36 PM

Thanks for the comments. The other reviews of it that I read seem to say the same stuff you did too.

I figure its a good entry level into HD camcorders for me for the babies.

5/7/2008 7:44:19 PM

My sister has the hv20 and it seems to be pretty good. It uses minidv and does 24p. I believe she gave around 700 in Dec. I am sure they have dropped quite a bit since then.

5/7/2008 9:18:18 PM

The internal hard drive is an ok system, but honestly, I'd choose miniDV or flash memory over it just because if you do long shoots, you can just switch out the media and keep on shooting. 60GB is more than enough though, but another downside is that it's pretty slow when transferring video off of it and more prone to data loss or corruption with vibrations or lots of movement.

5/7/2008 9:21:28 PM

im looking at getting the Canon HF10 w/graduation money. i read through the review here http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF10-Camcorder-Review-34711.htm and it seems to be a pretty good camera. the main concern i guess is lack of support for avchd in video editing software.

im not a professional or anything, but i want a good all-around camera. one of the main things i want to be able to do with it is shoot concerts so i want the camera to do good in low-light settings. stage lighting will probably help with that some, but for the most part i'd consider a concert venue (think cats cradle, lincoln theatre, etc) to be a low light setting.

i also want a way to get decent audio from the shows, but it doesnt necessarily have to be with this camera. in the past i've used an adaptor to go straight from the sound board into the mic input of the camera, but that was going to a stationary camera on a tripod while another camera was roaming around getting close-ups and stuff. are there some accessories or something i could get for the HF10 to be able to plug into the sound board and transfer it to the camera remotely so it can roam free? or maybe i'll just try to figure out a good way to record the audio from the board separately.

how would the default mic on the canon HF10 do for recording loud music live?

5/17/2008 10:14:14 PM

not very well. it'll pick up background noise like a regular mic would.

5/17/2008 11:16:33 PM

I'd get an hv20 or 30

whatever you get, you should check out footage from it.

I was incredibly close to getting an hv20, but I'm going to get a dSLR cam instead.

hv20:
http://vimeo.com/videos/search:hv20/sort:likes/format:thumbnail


hv30:
http://vimeo.com/videos/search:hv30/sort:likes/format:thumbnail


HF10:
http://vimeo.com/videos/search:hf10/sort:likes/format:thumbnail


HDC-SD9:
http://vimeo.com/videos/search:sd9



this is the vid that originally got me interested in the hv20:
http://vimeo.com/431500

24p FTMFW

[Edited on May 17, 2008 at 11:48 PM. Reason : hfds]

5/17/2008 11:45:49 PM

wouldn't the HF10 be better though? it shoots to flash memory, (16 GB internal plus an SDHC slot for a max of 32 GB right now). plus, 32 GB SD cards should be available eventually. that allows shooting for longer without changing tapes, plus it's easier to reuse them. also, the HV20/HV30 only support 1440x1080 while the HF10 goes up to 1920x1080.

i'm definitely pretty ignorant about this stuff though, so there could be plenty of reasons why the HV20 or HV30 would still be better, i just don't know them.

[Edited on May 18, 2008 at 12:09 AM. Reason : ]

5/18/2008 12:08:21 AM

this video in particular looks stunning
http://vimeo.com/965556

apparently he's using a lens attachment though. i have no idea what the attachment is doing though. i looked it up and it's a telephoto lens. is he using that on the shots where he takes the background out of focus and focuses on the foreground?

5/18/2008 12:41:21 AM

I bought a Canon HG10


Looked at the HV20, but fuck miniDV. I don't want to hassle with tapes.

5/18/2008 8:20:07 AM

As far as AVCHD editing goes, Ive had a LOT of luck with Nero 8 Ultra (Nero Vision) so far.

Its simple enough for me to use and just get the editing done.

Im no film producer by any means. I just want to chop together clips for videos to send friends/family as the twins are born. Nero 8 Ultra seems to fit the bill so far.

It even has a single button to automatically upload to youtube.

5/18/2008 11:42:24 AM

yeah and it seems that Pinnacle Studio 11 can edit AMCHD too, so i don't think that'll be an issue.


im now wondering if i should go HF10 or HF100. i definitely like the black, and apparently the extended batteries are black and would look funny on the HF10. but apparently solid state flash memory goes bad eventually so at some point the internal 16GB on the HF10 would be useless. the HF10 is about $200 more, which i could get 2-3 16GB SDHC cards for...

i dunno.

5/18/2008 1:10:05 PM

When i was deciding between the HF10 and the one i ended up getting, I couldnt justify the extra price for the HF10.

I did consider the HF100 and think its a great camcorder, I dont think you could go wrong there.

5/18/2008 1:48:35 PM

i got the hv20 and it shoots great

5/18/2008 9:28:17 PM

i would do miniDV over any other type of memory any day.

5/19/2008 1:59:09 AM

^why?

5/19/2008 3:57:11 PM

^because you can transfer it to the pc, edit it, and transfer it back to a minidv, all without losing any quality. If you have a hdd camera, you would have to burn it to a blu-ray disc in order to store it in true HD.

At least that is what I learned from the video nerds while I was researching. I ended up with the HV30. Very satisfied.

5/19/2008 7:20:31 PM

how do you transfer it back to minidiv? play the file and record over the original on the miniDV? i think i'd prefer to just store them on a hard drive or something.

and the blu-ray argument is only true in cases where the size of the file is too big for a DL DVD. you don't have to be able to pop it into a player and watch it if you're just trying to store the footage. a data disc would be fine if it's large enough to hold the file. unless i'm just completely wrong about all this, i don't see why that wouldn't be possible.

[Edited on May 19, 2008 at 7:45 PM. Reason : ]

5/19/2008 7:44:47 PM

I have no idea on burning it to a data disc.

But, just sending it back to the camera over firewire onto a $2 minidv is the way to go. Plus, you can plug your camera into your tv and watch as many different tapes as you want in full hd.

5/19/2008 9:10:05 PM

i'm trying to find good resources to compare the pros/cons of miniDV vs flash memory.

i guess right now the main debate for me is HF10/HF100 vs HV30/HV20. the HF's record in "true" HD at 1920x1080 with AVCHD while the HV's are limited to 1440x1080 by HDV format. However, it sounds like the AVCHD is heavily compressed so you lose quality that way which may or may not lose the advantage of having "true" HD. Plus I know one of the things I want to be able to record are live concerts, and lots of times headlining bands play sets > 1 hour. That would probably mean having to switch to a new tape with miniDV, missing content versus having a 16GB flash card that gets around 2 hours before having to switch.

so i guess i need to find out:
-which is best video quality between HF and HV series or 1920 AVCHD vs 1440 HDV in general
-more info on running edited HD video back to miniDV for storage/playback through camera
-how long can i record to a single miniDV tape at the highest quality?
-are miniDV tapes really only $2 each?


also, how is the HV20 more expensive that the HV30 AND HF10 on amazon??

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-HV30-Definition-Camcorder-Stabilized/dp/B00114PN1U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1211258366&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-HV30-Definition-Camcorder-Stabilized/dp/B00114PN1U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1211258366&sr=1-1
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-HF10-Definition-Camcorder-Stabilized/dp/B001144JQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1211258490&sr=1-1


[Edited on May 20, 2008 at 12:41 AM. Reason : ]

5/20/2008 12:37:27 AM

they probably don't make the hv20 anymore or are making fewer.

transfer from tape to comp and vice versa through firewire is pretty simple.

5/20/2008 1:49:20 AM

Hd minidv tapes are like $20 for a 2pk and each can hold an hour of the highest quality

5/22/2008 5:03:30 PM

i've actually been doing some reading about the minidv stuff and apparently the whole "HD" minidv tape thing is a myth to raise the price tag. the video is digital and the miniDV tape is just a medium to record it on, so the quality would be the same. so it seems like i probably could find good enough minidv tapes for around $2-$2.50 apiece if i ended up going that route with the camera. i'm mainly just trying to decide if i'd be going with a very soon-to-be out dated type of HD camcorder or not, and if it'd be better to go with the new AVCHD flash memory camcorder with "true" HD resolution.

if price was completely irrelevant, what would truly be the better buy between the HF100 and HV20 (or HF10 and HV30)?

5/22/2008 5:17:18 PM

i hear ya and the "hd" part is probably a scam to raise the price BUT ive bought several cheap minidv tapes that couldnt stand to be continuously rewound and taped over more than 2 or 3 times before there was permanent damage to the tape itself which resulted in unusable chunks

if you're just going to use the tape to record one full session of 60 min and then transfer it directly to a HD then by all means but you get what you pay for with the higher priced tapes and they are able to be used over and over

^ the only complaint i have about the canon line is that they decided to make it really difficult to use the 24F mode when editing with something like premiere pro. it's not a big deal if you just put it on regular hdv and shoot but if you're going for the "film" look it will require some jumping through hoops.

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 5:55 PM. Reason : cf]

5/22/2008 5:51:09 PM

also make sure you have a big HD cause one 35 min chunk of raw hd footage was 11gb

5/22/2008 5:57:46 PM

^ Very good point.

I just added an additional TB to cover my videos.

5/22/2008 6:24:38 PM

I'm pretty interested in the HF100. Any recommendations on a decently priced mic and external powered light?

5/22/2008 8:14:53 PM

^the HF100 has a new proprietary mini-shoe that only has one (canon-branded) mic that fits, but you can buy a shoe adapter to use any mic, it's just an extra purchase...

and ^^ are you talking about the entire canon line in general? i hadn't heard that about the hv20/30, but that's true for the HF series because AVCHD isn't supported by a lot of editing programs yet.

5/23/2008 2:34:33 AM

I did most of my research here prior to buying.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

5/23/2008 6:55:03 AM

I'm just an amateur so I don't understand all the lingo but basically canons 24 fps mode is actually higher so you have to get a program that drops those extra frames otherwise you get pretty noticable artifacts on raw footage in premiere pro. Also you'll want to get hdvsplit. Don't import straight to premiere. Then you'll have to find canons presets for hdv for adobe. You can't just use the default 24 fps timeline. That's just been better in my experience.

5/23/2008 12:11:55 PM

yeah i've heard about purple fringing so i'd just google how to get rid of that. and apparently it stores everything in the camera in 60i so you'd have to deinterlace it to get true 24p. i guess that's on the HFs. not a huge deal, i'd figure out what to do and what programs i needed to "buy".

5/23/2008 12:14:01 PM

There are places you can get a program called prospecthd at huge discounts too...

Make sure you have a relatively new computer. My 3ghz p4 with 2gb and an ati x800 can't handle raw hd. I had to order a new computer to use my camera lol.

5/23/2008 12:21:36 PM

i got pinnacle studio 11 b/c i heard that works well with avchd so if i get one of the HF cameras i should be good. otherwise i'll stick with premiere pro cs3

5/23/2008 11:54:54 PM

Quote :

"My 3ghz p4 with 2gb and an ati x800 can't handle raw hd. I had to order a new computer to use my camera lol."

Thats pretty funny, because I was in the exact same position. I had almost the identical computer (except I had an x700 instead) and i couldnt even playback the HD, lol.

I picked up a Q9450 with 4GB ram and it edits smooth as butter now.

I went from buying an $800 camera to having to buy a $1200 PC to support it

[Edited on May 24, 2008 at 9:36 AM. Reason : .]

5/24/2008 9:35:58 AM

Although I bought nero 8 ultra, some people have been talking about Pinnacle.

Here is a link today on bensbargains to get it for $6.

http://bensbargains.net/deal/66478/

5/24/2008 5:09:04 PM

http://www.woot.com/

6/11/2008 1:27:34 AM

nice...

6/11/2008 2:22:33 AM

bttt per request

11/13/2008 2:24:07 PM

thinking about buying this Sony HDR-SR11 - http://tinyurl.com/6qaddf

reviews seems pretty good overall - wish it was 1080p and not I but not the end of the world

going to europe in late december and want a nice video camera before I go - want to keep it under $1000 by as much as possible

11/13/2008 2:42:11 PM

nobody?

11/16/2008 5:23:01 PM

Im REALLY happy with the one I got.

11/16/2008 10:03:29 PM

i think i've narrowed it down to the Sony HDR-SR11, Canon HG20 and the Canon HF11 - not really considering the panasonic

11/16/2008 10:54:41 PM

i want one also, but i cant see myself spending hundreds im mainly using it for racing and stuff.

perhaps black friday will have deals

11/17/2008 12:12:55 AM

On the topic of consumer HD cameras, this is a pretty awesome video made using the Canon 5D Mk II ... of course it's $2700 too.

http://gizmodo.com/5078123/its-official-the-canon-5d-mk-ii-will-turn-us-all-into-professional-cinematographers

11/17/2008 1:34:20 AM