In the past I have always bought the largest quantity of the stuff I could get my hands on and dosed my K9s appropriately. So my sister has acquired a cat and I figured I'd look up the dosage (.5ml) and give (Nalla) a dab from the dogs supply to hold her over until she goes to the vet. Sis is on budget and the cat is a stray. Anyway, I did some looking and found mixed reactions from...

YAY COOL
http://www.mycatwearsclothes.com/forum/has-anybody-use-this-before-t434.html
http://tiny.cc/b8wWD

to...

OMG NO YOUR CAT WELL FOAM AT THE MOUTH AND DIE!!!!
http://tiny.cc/kcn7I
There are others like this.

I'm really getting the feeling that the negative reactions are from folks who assume people well get the dosage wrong by dumping a whole pack of dog stuff on their cat. That or they are plants from Merial designed to keep the sheep in line.

Now from what I can tell the dog stuff has a lower dosage of Methoprene by volume and that is the only difference. Thus the cat, at a .5ml dose of dog stuff, receives less med than suggested.

Am I missing something it the medium for delivery? What is the issue if any?

We live in Florida BTW and Nalla has some fleas. She is ~6 mo old tabby and seams in good health. She'll make it to the vet at some point, but meanwhile she is going to need something.


From Wikipedia
"
This product is based on Fipronil and is actually improved Frontline TopSpot by adding (S)-methoprene that breaks the flea life cycle by killing their eggs and larvae preventing re-infestation
"

From petshed
"
For Cats
9.8% Fipronil & 11.8% (S)-Methoprene (by weight)
100 g/L Fipronil & 120 g/L

For Dogs
9.8% Fipronil & 8.8% (S)-Methoprene (by weight)
100 g/L Fipronil & 90 g/L
"

4/29/2008 4:19:40 AM

Ehh, I personally wouldn't risk it even if the math is right. If finances are tight, just try a flea collar or some flea product from the regular store.

4/29/2008 6:56:49 AM

I personally wouldn't.

Buy an over the counter flea collar, maybe tell your Sis find someone else to keep the kitty.
Seriously, if an initial vet visit is out of her leauge financially, owning a cat is out alltogether.

That said if the financial bind is very temporary- flea collar.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 7:38 AM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 7:26:14 AM

i wouldn't do it. it sounds stupid, but there ARE compounds in the dog's version that are toxic to cats because they don't metabolize it the same. so it's more than a dosage issue.

give the cat a bath or two with a good brand of flea shampoo and keep it inside with the already-treated dogs. none of my cats get flea treatment, all are indoors, and the dog has not brought in fleas while on treatment.

4/29/2008 9:10:23 AM

^
plus, cats can ingest it if they manage to lick it off while bathing themselves



fuck frontline

ends don't justify means

I would rather be bitten by 10,000 fleas and die of the plague

than bring poison into my house

4/29/2008 11:56:47 AM

wtf don't put dog flea medicine of any kind on a cat

4/29/2008 11:59:26 AM

wtf don't put dog flea medicine of any kind on a cat

4/29/2008 12:16:14 PM

poison

poison

poison

vacuum

bath

garlic

bath

vacuum

diatomaceous earth

bath

brewers yeast

vacuum

garlic

vacuum

flea comb

bath

garlic

citronella

diatomaceous earth

brewers yeast

vacuum

bath

REPEAT

4/29/2008 12:20:22 PM

For clarification, this is regarding "Frontline Plus" only. Not ADVANTIX which is very dangerous to cat or any other brands.

These responses are same things I've found on roughly half the discussions on the net. The other half say otherwise. I feel this is important information because plenty of people do just what I'm talking about and others avoid doing it because of what I'm thinking is Merial propaganda.

Quote :

"i wouldn't do it. it sounds stupid, but there ARE compounds in the dog's version that are toxic to cats because they don't metabolize it the same."

I appreciate the input but I want to KNOW WHY. What "compound" could there possibly be in the K9 formula that a cat could not metabolize? Basically I'm calling Bull Shit on this one.

If someone can prove otherwise please do.
We can argue about the logistics and how stupid it is once the facts are hammered out.
I'm going to buy a collar and bring it to her in the meantime.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 12:29 PM. Reason : /]

4/29/2008 12:25:34 PM

Quote :

"plus, cats can ingest it if they manage to lick it off while bathing themselves"

That's why you put it on their neck where it's harder for them to get to.

Quote :

"What "compound" could there possibly be in the K9 formula that a cat could not metabolize? Basically I'm calling Bull Shit on this one."

1) When it comes to animals, Kitty B is one of the TWWers whose word you should always take.
2) Why would you call BS on something just because she didn't go into the specifics? I'm sure she'll chime in and elucidate, but my point here is that just because someone doesn't name the exact chemical doesn't mean that they're lying. Like paranoia, skepticism is good in small doses.

I have some frontline for cats I'll sell you for cheap, if you like. My cat never goes outside, the dog gets frontline on the regular, and after I realized how long it'd been since I last gave her any, I was like 'man, we don't need this!'

4/29/2008 1:51:51 PM

Quote :

"That's why you put it on their neck where it's harder for them to get to.but still can"

OMG DUH

Quote :

"Basically I'm calling Bull Shit on this one"

OMG I'M SUCH A COOL AND SKEPTICAL SCIENTIST

I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT A POISON IS DANGEROUS 'TIL I SEE DOUBLE BLIND RANDOMIZED STUDIES

SO COOL


^
OMG GHOST EDITING MEANS THAT YOU.....

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ......ARE INSECURE!!!!]

4/29/2008 1:57:33 PM

eh?

4/29/2008 3:59:46 PM

4/29/2008 4:06:14 PM

Actually Kitty B is wrong here. She's talking about Advantix which is harmful to cats leading to severe neurological dysfunction. And don't bother with the flea collars, number one they are just a highly concentrated flea dip which will only protect your pet from fleas locally (around the neck). Two, flea dips are no longer used because they are fairly ineffective and semi-toxic if used improperly. Many cats are quite ingenious when it comes to getting things off, and if they were to ingest even a little bit of the chemical on the collar or the collar itself, it is toxic.

If you are measuring out the right volume for your cat, which you seem to have already figured out is .5ml, you're fine. In fact lots of people have f*ed up the dose they give, wind up giving their cat the dog's dose with no recourse. Frontline is a VERY safe product, cats can lick it off, if applied improperly with only symptoms of hypersalivation. Interestingly frontline is also the product commonly used to protect children in orphanages in some of the poorer countries that have a problem with bed bugs and fleas.

Ultimately, go ahead and dose the kitten with .5ml, as long as it is 8weeks old...you shouldn't run into any issues.

4/29/2008 4:06:36 PM

wtf happened here

- don't put the dog flea medicine on the cat
- bathe the cat with cat flea shampoo (check the age recommendations on the bottle) if you really can't wait

and

why is she waiting until the cat goes to the vet? frontline and other cat flea meds are available otc from petsmart, petco, and the intarwebs...

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 4:10 PM. Reason : r]

4/29/2008 4:10:22 PM

She's not giving the cat the dogs frontline. The same chemicals are in both the dog and cat application. The only difference is concentration. In fact if you did give the cat .5ml of the dog dose you'd actually be under-dosing it. The concentration of active ingredients in the cat dose are 9.8% Fipronil and 11.8% (S)-Methoprene. The dog dose contains 9.8% Fipronil and 8.8% (S)-Methoprene. Flea collars=worthless, flea shampoo=worthless. Give the cat the meds no worries, end of discussion.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 4:19 PM. Reason : .]

4/29/2008 4:18:25 PM

i wasn't really responding directly to you, but ok.

i still want to know:

Quote :

"why is she waiting until the cat goes to the vet? frontline and other cat flea meds are available otc from petsmart, petco, and the intarwebs..."

and i disagree with you on the flea shampoo comment. i fostered litters of kittens and flea shampoo always worked really well for them.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 4:24 PM. Reason : sss]

4/29/2008 4:21:56 PM

You know...vets give out information for free. You could just call a vet or two instead of reading online blogs, since you're being a skeptic.

Also...if your sister doesn't have $40/month (or whatever it is broken down from 1800 Petmeds), she really shouldn't have a pet.....

4/29/2008 4:22:38 PM

I don't think you can get frontline or advantage specifically from Petsmart. Banfield carries them, but they seem to price gouge horribly.

Petsmart does carry other flea applicator meds, I doubt they contain the same ingredient as frontline-I think it's patented (?)

Pet stores do have others you could try, efficacy might be hit or miss though.

4/29/2008 4:25:37 PM

I think flea shampoo could be advantageous if you don't already have a flea infestation in your house. But those eggs can lay dormant in your carpet for months continually reinfecting your pet. It is my understanding that flea shampoo does a half-way decent job of killing the adult fleas currently on your pet, but has no residual effects and does not act as repellant. So, unless it specifies eggs and larvae are not affected. I've always been told for every one adult flea you find on your pet there are at least 100 eggs/larvae either embedded in it's hair or in your carpet/floor.

I don't know...you could be right about prices, I just remember going in there to get a box of FL red and they wanted 60 freakin' dollars. That's bullshit. Besides Banfield is trash anyway.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 4:36 PM. Reason : does that work for ya?]

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 4:39 PM. Reason : btw Banfield is the vet's office, and no, both petsmart and petco jack up prices, no deals to be had]

4/29/2008 4:29:11 PM

banfield is IN petsmart. petco carries it but they jack the prices up. the internet is always cheaper.

btw, flea meds at petsmart, petco, etc will usually cost the same or less than the vet's office anyway, at least around here.

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 4:32 PM. Reason : and instead of replying multiple times you can edit post]

4/29/2008 4:30:55 PM

1-800 Petmeds. You can get all sorts of discounts and free shipping.

4/29/2008 4:32:22 PM

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=7160

they're usually cheaper than any of those petmed sites. $9 cheaper in this case (cat frontline plus 3 pack)

4/29/2008 4:34:37 PM

Wow...that's actually really cool. Looks like I'll be using them from now on

4/29/2008 4:42:31 PM

i just ordered from them last week. their customer service is excellent. i alternate b/w them and upco.com depending on what i'm ordering (upco has cheaper cat comfortzone plug in refill thingies usually).

[Edited on April 29, 2008 at 4:48 PM. Reason : can. not. ty. pe.]

4/29/2008 4:47:31 PM

One VERY IMPORTANT POINT. Never use a dog product on a cat as a rule. Some flee shampoos in particular can be very bad for a cat. Read the label.

There are exceptions to all rules through that prevent them from being laws. I feel this is an exception.

The point of this thread from my perspective to answer the question
'is it safe to use .5ml of "Frontline Plus for Dogs on a cat"?

I believe the answer is: Yes it is perfectly safe. The dosage of poison is less than that of a single dose of Frontline Plus for Cats.

seachel seems to be seconding what I am thinking. Looks like she is post grad Vet Med, so maybe She knows what's up?

Quote :

"why is she waiting until the cat goes to the vet? frontline and other cat flea meds are available otc from petsmart, petco, and the intarwebs..."

Because I can give it .5ml NOW.

Quote :

"You know...vets give out information for free. You could just call a vet or two instead of reading online blogs, since you're being a skeptic."

This way You can learn something new too. Obviously you're missing the point completely.

I've been a fan of http://www.petshed.com/ for some time. Mostly out of habit at this point so I may have to shop around again. Thanks for the links.

4/30/2008 4:33:49 AM

maybe it's just me but i'd rather not risk my cat's health by estimating a cat's dosage from a dog med. i don't plan on estimating a child's dosage from an adult med either. it's just not a good idea imo.

4/30/2008 9:19:20 AM

If your sister can't afford frontline from a vet, try finding it off teh internet. It's the same shit, plus I think vets gauge you for $ anyway.

Don't put cat stuff on dogs or vice versa. If that was ok, then they'd just have "All animal Advantage" or someting.

4/30/2008 9:35:45 AM

it is just a cat.

4/30/2008 10:32:41 AM

In most cases you'd be right, you shouldn't substitute cat meds and dog meds. But in terms of frontline, it really is universal to all pets. But, you wouldn't give a 5lb chihuahua the same dose you'd give to a 150lb dane. They market it based on volume, not concentration of active ingredients. And that misleads people into thinking that the difference is actually in content, rather the volume. Why would it be that easy?

So yea, save yourself some bucks, buy online and buy the largest volume you can. Research the proper dose for your sized pet which is listed on the box you'd usually give them, and dose them like that. It'll last you a hell of a lot longer. This isn't a new thing, a lot of people utilize these treatments in this way to cut costs if they own more than one pet.

4/30/2008 10:33:15 AM

I'm glad you're only listening to people that agree with you.

4/30/2008 11:10:48 AM

^^^ Often the internet stuff is very shady. Even the big name sites like 1800 petmeds are unlicensed and unregulated. There is a concern that the medications are expired and repackaged or originating in markets where quality control of the product is not regulated.

http://www.fda.gov/consumer/updates/petdrugsonline121407.html

You should check that the site is a US-licensed pharmacy and etc.

The eBay sellers are extremely shady.

4/30/2008 11:11:33 AM

drsfostersmith.com says they are a guaranteed usa frontline supplier. the concern with online retailers of frontline is the outoftheUSA versions. Drs. Foster & Smith, the company, is made up of 5 DVMs and 2 CVTs...along w/ a variety of other professionals with varying degrees http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?gid=325
they are a licensed pet & equine pharmacy http://www.drsfostersmith.com/general.cfm?c=9547&gid=195 and they ship meds and stuff that needs to be refrigerated or kept at a constant temp in a foam cooler w/ whatever ice and stuff.

frontline, according to the merial website, does not expire

Quote :

"FRONTLINE Brand Products do not carry an expiration date. We recommend storing FRONTLINE Brand Products at room temperature and keeping them sealed in their original packaging. If stored under these conditions, FRONTINE Brand Products will not expire."

other medicines do though.

4/30/2008 11:27:39 AM

For the record, I am open to everyones suggestions. I am looking for the facts though, not knee-jerk reactions.

I consider myself to be a very responsible pet owner and all of the animals I have had an active part in caring for have had nothing but the best available. http://www.bowmananimalhospital.com was my vet in Raleigh and my little pitmix Stella to this day thinks the vet office is the next best thing to the dogpark as a result of her early experiences there.

I find the ability to control the dose of FL a big positive. For example, Stella is 46 lbs.
The prepackaged dose for 45-88 lbs is 2.68 mL
But,
The prepackaged dose for 23-44 lbs is 1.34 mL
So I give Stella 1.5 to 2ml or none, depending on the season

Likewise the little 5 lb MutRat gets 0.5ml or less
The prepackaged dose for "Up to 22 lbs" is 0.67 mL

Both have been happily parasite free for years.

One Red Box dose of FL is 4ml so I can dose them both roughly twice from one packet.
This costs me around $60/year. If I bought the individual prepackaged doses it'd run over $200/year. Plus another $100 for the cat if it stays.

Not to mention the loss of control over the actual dose. Notice I am reducing the actual amount of poison that would be applied otherwise.

Now I know that the cat can get in on the action as well.

I don't jump into things blindly folks. I don't particularly like cats ether, but if there is going to be one around my territory I want to know it is properly taken care of.

Now if I could only acquire liquid Ivermectin.

Quote :

"maybe it's just me but i'd rather not risk my cat's health by estimating a cat's dosage from a dog med."

This is a very good point. I am not estimating anything. I am meticulously measuring with a pharmaceutical grade syringe.

4/30/2008 2:56:27 PM

If it was the same chemical then there wouldn't be anything wrong with what you're doing.

But if this:

Quote :

", but there ARE compounds in the dog's version that are toxic to cats because they don't metabolize it the same. so it's more than a dosage issue. "

Is the case, then you may want to find out the chemicals that are different and look those up online to see what the effects might be. But as far as flea control the .5ml should be okay./

4/30/2008 3:03:48 PM

^^why do you keep putting the word poison in italics? most drugs/medicines/some foods/some plants could be considered poisonous in some way. stop trying to be so dramatic.

i'm going back to my "maybe it's just me" statement and still siding with those who aren't putting something marketed for canines on a feline.

4/30/2008 4:13:15 PM

^Poison was a play to 392's comments. Insecticide would be a more accurate description.

I well reiterate:
VERY IMPORTANT POINT. Never use a dog product on a cat as a general rule.

One more time in case someone missed it.
this is regarding "Frontline Plus" only. NOT ADVANTIX which is extremely dangerous to cats
Nor does it pertain to any other products or procedures.
This topic deals exclusively with Frontline and Frontline Plus and their active ingredients Fipronil and (S)-Methoprene. Nothing else.

If you do not feel totally and completely confidant in what you are doing with your animals, seek the advice of a qualified Veterinary Doctor. This goes for medication, training, food, abnormal behavior, ect.

[Edited on April 30, 2008 at 4:50 PM. Reason : k]

4/30/2008 4:48:50 PM

Look...the point I made was that since you AREN'T ABSOLUTELY 100% sure about giving Nalla the dogs' Frontline Plus, you should be asking a licensed vet, not people online.
I understand you want people to learn info too, but maybe if you actually talked to a DVM, and posted the response of THEM on here, then we'd be learning new information.

Quote :

"If you do not feel totally and completely confidant in what you are doing with your animals, seek the advice of a qualified Veterinary Doctor. This goes for medication, training, food, abnormal behavior, ect. "

4/30/2008 5:14:05 PM

hahahaa


pot, meet kettle

4/30/2008 5:22:58 PM

^?

4/30/2008 5:34:59 PM

But wait now. Along with the pharmaceutical company the veterinarian makes money off of selling individually marketed doses. It's not really in his best interest to give you the "professional ok."

4/30/2008 5:39:45 PM

I didn't read the thread so this may have been covered. But Merial reps have always told me don't advised clients to use doses any other way than the frontline box suggests.

Bayer rep's (they do advantage & advantix) have said make sure dog advantix never gets near cats before its dry b/c it is toxic to cats. I've never heard any similar claims from Merial.

Also check on capstar, it doesn't replace your monthly preventative, but its good for both cats & dogs so if you go to a place that doesn't sell singles you can buy a box and have a few on hand for your pets. (there are weight ranges under 25 lbs and over 25lbs so obviously a cat gets the small one). They are sold individually for like $2 or $3 each and it kills any flea that bites within a 24 hours period & it starts working after half an hour of being ingested so its a good quick fix to a flea infestation when used in combination with a monthly preventive.

4/30/2008 7:16:21 PM

4/30/2008 8:57:54 PM

^
One more time in case someone missed it.
This topic deals exclusively with Frontline and Frontline Plus and their active ingredients Fipronil and (S)-Methoprene. Nothing else.

I do not have a flea infestation.

Is it really that difficult to understand.
1. Why this is important information for you the consumer?
2. Why this is important information for students of veterinary medicine?

Obviously there is confusion and misunderstanding about the topic.
If you can provide true insight into the conundrum, by all means lets hear it.

Quote :

"Merial reps have always told me don't advised clients to use doses any other way than the frontline box suggests."

I bet they did. Wonder why?

Quote :

"But wait now. Along with the pharmaceutical company the veterinarian makes money off of selling individually marketed doses. It's not really in his best interest to give you the "professional ok.""

Not only that. It opens him up to liability in the case I am a complete idiot and kill my cat with 4ml of FL or some other product. Plus, how happy do you think the Merial reps would be if they found out?

If you follow the links I provided in the first post you'll find responses of people who did receive an OK from their vets.

Come on folks I figured this out years ago when I was at State. $50 buys a few packs of Ramen know? I continue to go this route as, a dollar saved is a dollar earned and I like the control over actual dose.

Please reread the thread and apply critical thinking skills if you have not done so at this point.

5/1/2008 1:54:42 PM

krneo1, the pot meet kettle comment was in response to your post but directed towards boleeo

5/1/2008 2:27:33 PM

5/1/2008 2:45:51 PM

Just making sure. B/c I don't advocate medicate-then-ask-questions.

boleeo, again, why did you even bother asking the question if you were just gonna do whatever you wanted? Also, $50 of Ramen /= dog Frontline being used on a cat.... There may be marketing issues associated with "buy cat Frontline ONLY for cats," but wouldn't you rather know 100% that it was okay to use dog Frontline on cats than take the word of anonymous sentences online?
I guess I care about my pets enough to shell out a few more bucks for the right species of flea treatment...


[Edited on May 1, 2008 at 3:11 PM. Reason : added]

5/1/2008 3:04:43 PM

I guess I care about my pets enough to thoroughly research what I put into their systems.

Have you not been paying attention?

You krneo1 are posting anonymous sentences. I have all the love in the world for you so please don't take offense.

I am seeking the knowledge of the vet school here. They have been of great assistance in the past. So far I have one Grad student studying at ISU confirm my thoughts exactly.

I'm not trying to be hostile here but I'm not looking for "I don't think it is a good idea" or "sure sounds great".

Well reasoned arguments for or against would be nice.

Quote :

"The same chemicals are in both the dog and cat application. The only difference is concentration. In fact if you did give the cat .5ml of the dog dose you'd actually be under-dosing it. The concentration of active ingredients in the cat dose are 9.8% Fipronil and 11.8% (S)-Methoprene. The dog dose contains 9.8% Fipronil and 8.8% (S)-Methoprene. Flea collars=worthless, flea shampoo=worthless. Give the cat the meds no worries, end of discussion."

If you can punch a hole in this logic do it.

5/1/2008 3:53:03 PM