Looking for a two seater. Want it to go at least 50, but also want it to be tough and agile enough that I can beat it up a little bit. Budget is <=3k. Brand recommendations?

4/23/2008 8:51:14 PM

Yamaha.

Not sure what they cost now... but look at the GP1200's

4/23/2008 8:51:42 PM

Did somebody say jet ski?


[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 8:53 PM. Reason : l]

4/23/2008 8:52:52 PM

^ i second the gp series. i love my 1300. awesome skis, only problem is that they suck on gas due to their two stroke nature. but for around 3 grand you aren't gonna find a 4 stroke anywhere.

[Edited on April 23, 2008 at 8:54 PM. Reason : ^^]

4/23/2008 8:53:56 PM

yep. i had a gp1200 one summer.. it was a lot of fun

4/23/2008 8:54:37 PM

lol jon edwards and the jet ski


ski's are being outlawed at so many places I'd just buy a 17' boat like a bayliner or something

4/23/2008 8:56:52 PM

you won't find a GP1300 for $3000, either. that's about the minimum to get into the GP1200 game.

really, if you just want to go 50 mph and have 2 seats, there are a number of options. the GP1200 and Ultra 150 would fit the bill, but it'll be a major stretch to find a decent one for $3k. they offer substantially more performance than it sounds like you're looking for, though. if you don't require that, you'll be able to get a nicer ski for less money if you take a step or two down the performance totem pole.

while there are a bunch of different options you could go for with your fairly undemanding requirements, I'd probably look for a Kawasaki STX-1100. it's still more ski than you're asking for, and you could save more money by taking another step down in performance, but i think it's a lot of bang for the buck. I rode one very briefly and liked it a lot.

4/23/2008 9:08:36 PM

What about Polaris?

4/23/2008 9:29:21 PM

just what the world needs, another fucktard on a jet ski.

4/23/2008 9:52:04 PM

?

4/23/2008 9:53:15 PM

stand up so much more fun.

4/23/2008 9:53:37 PM

you'll understand after you get out on the lake some.

4/23/2008 9:53:38 PM

Actually it's the Chesapeake Bay.

4/23/2008 9:54:13 PM

outboard motors dump as much oil as 15 Exxon Valdez tankers into U.S. waterways each year -- an estimated 1 billion pounds of cancer-causing petroleum hydrocarbons.

Driving a Jet Ski for seven hours produces as many hydrocarbons as driving a car 100,000 miles.

those things are nasty as fuck, but they sure are fun.

4/23/2008 9:58:38 PM

hondas are real nice too....the '02 F-12 turbo is what we have back home

4/23/2008 9:59:04 PM

I love how this thread is right below the "Economy is fucked!" thread.

4/23/2008 10:42:28 PM

Sea Doo is the only way to go.

If you're looking at a Yamaha you might as well get a boat. They don't jump for shit and they take no skill whatsoever.

4/23/2008 11:01:27 PM

Sea Doo ftmfw

But PLEASE take a boating safety course first. The only thing worse than jet skis is idiots on jet skis who don't know what they are doing and who has the right of way.

4/23/2008 11:18:18 PM

In general, are there any pitfalls to avoid if looking at the used market?

4/23/2008 11:39:52 PM

my damned jet skis...

4/23/2008 11:43:37 PM

jet skis might be even more of a waste of money than boats. Maybe...

4/23/2008 11:48:39 PM

they completely ruin lakes too. Anyone ever swim in lake normal? It smells/feels like oil. I'm glad cities have begun to ban them all over the country.

soon they'll move towards 4-stroke/electric jet skis so things will be better.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 12:04 AM. Reason : .]

4/23/2008 11:52:01 PM

Hmmm...

I've done a lot with seadoo and Yamaha, and can recommend both with stellar ratings. The seadoo had better pickup and speed, but the older models didn't have a cutoff when they flip. Do it wrong and they'll suck water into the engine and you get to take it apart and lube everything again.

Yamaha skis never had the sucking water on a flip problem, but they did seem to run a little rougher, and were not quite as peppy, but still a TON of fun.

Word on the lake is that the hondas are the new stuff, have yet to get one wet - but all the honda 4 wheelers I've ran through the paces were absolute tanks - no problems whatsoever.

If you're going used, get a water bag (one of those that has 2-3 zips and often roll up with velcro) and toss in a $20 (gas) a fresh spark plug w/ plug wrench, and your documentation. Try changing a plug while floating, 9 times out of 10 that's your problem and it takes 5 minutes, even while you're bobbing around.

4/24/2008 12:11:34 AM

i can attest to the honda skis being the shit. i love my r12x

4/24/2008 12:40:19 AM

I've probably spent more time on Yamahas (GP, XL, VXR, and WRIII bodies) now than I have on Sea Doos, but I've never had as much fun on them. The forward mounted engine kills it IMO. You hit a wave and the bow cuts into it. It's harsh as hell too by comparison to a smooth jump with a nice landing. With the engine being closer to the rear on a Sea Doo you can hit a wave at the right angle and it will launch. Shorter models (2 seaters) are obviously better since boat wakes tend to be relatively short and you'll need to hit most waves at an angle to really get any lift. Once you get the hang of it you can get in a nice smooth rhythm across the lake even though you're constantly jumping up and down. All that goes out the window when you load two people on it though.

I'd definitely give Yamaha the top spot on reliability between the two though.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 12:44 AM. Reason : l]

4/24/2008 12:43:44 AM

Quote :

"they completely ruin lakes too. Anyone ever swim in lake normal? It smells/feels like oil. I'm glad cities have begun to ban them all over the country. soon they'll move towards 4-stroke/electric jet skis so things will be better. "

if you knew a god damn thing about what you were talking about you'd know that for the last few years most jet skis produced have been 4 strokes, almost all of the new hi-po ones are 4 strokes

and most people don't buy a 2 stroke outboards at all anymore, 4 strokes are cleaner, quieter, and more reliable. I think merc makes one (which hardly anyone buys) and evinrude/johnson still make one but it's miles above and beyond a 2 stroke outboard of the 90's

2 strokes have been and still are a dying breed, including such things as dirt bikes and atvs

and I swim in lakes, oceans, and the sound all the time, never felt like I was swimming in oil, but go ahead and keep on saying whatever fits your agenda

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 12:48 AM. Reason : !]

4/24/2008 12:47:28 AM

I'm sorry if your lake water feels oily.

4/24/2008 12:52:58 AM

I got a old Yamaha XL 760, yea it aint the quickest... but its light as hell for a 3 seater, and handles way better than the new ones. Never had any problems except for the gas tank float.

Look at the rentals... pretty much all yamaha, they def last the longer and are the most user friendly. Ive ridden a few see-doos and a GP1200, the i would have to say i like the ride of the GP better.. buts its whatever you like

4/24/2008 12:56:43 AM

gp 1300 gets my vote....ive logged some hours on traubs and WOOOWWW

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 1:18 AM. Reason : 123]

4/24/2008 1:17:37 AM

Quote :

"jet skis might be even more of a waste of money than boats. Maybe... "

Have you ever ridden one? You're a unique individual if you can honestly say they're not fun.



Thanks for the advice, all.

4/24/2008 1:33:23 AM

Quote :

"if you knew a god damn thing about what you were talking about you'd know that for the last few years most jet skis produced have been 4 strokes, almost all of the new hi-po ones are 4 strokes"

yeah for the last few years. That doesn't mean there aren't tons of 2 stroke jet skis still in use. I'm more arguing against the ideology of the users. They aren't buying 4 stroke jet skis because they're more friendly to the environment or anything along those lines. So you can't make that argument. Most 2 stroke jet ski users know jack about how much they pollute the lakes.

Quote :

"and I swim in lakes, oceans, and the sound all the time, never felt like I was swimming in oil, but go ahead and keep on saying whatever fits your agenda"

Well that's not the common opinion. There are plenty of new regulations around the country banning jetskis from public lakes and waterways for both oil and noise pollution. Minneapolis is a great example. There's hundreds of lakes within the metropolitan area of the city and they're all accessible by greenway for the public. All these lakes have bans on motorized boats to allow for swimmers, kayaks, sail boats etc to be used. Unfortunately NC has little greenways and it's rare to find publically accessible large bodies of water where developers haven't snached it up and overdeveloped the lake all the way up to the shoreline. Lake Norman is a great example. Highly polluted and overdeveloped. (and whoever i know who's swam in it says it smells and feels like oil)

The Catawba river is another great example of overdevelopment. Named the number one 'most endangered' river in the US:
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1040340.html

I'm just saying that from a sustainability standpoint NC is faaaar behind other states. We're lacking in motorized boat regulations and not doing a great job of keeping our water clean. It's rare to find clean public water in the state whereas you can go to so many other places in the country and find great public areas and greenways to enjoy without having to deal with the pollution and noise of motorized boats.

^I love riding on jetskis. I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's impossible to deny they don't do any damage to natural wildlife, and to the lake itself. At one time 2-stroke engines were the number one cause of toxic pollution in lakes and waterways in the US. As i said before "Driving a Jet Ski for seven hours produces as many hydrocarbons as driving a car 100,000 miles." (2-stroke obviously) My point is that anyone who would willingly do that to lakes and waters that people swim in is insane. Just because those same people buy 4 stroke jet skis now doesn't mean they are on in the right. They have the same indifferent ignorant attitude toward the environment.

haha reading over that i sound like a fucking hippy. Anyway this is in chitchat. I'm just tryin to say that there are a TON of ignorant people out there who would do whatever they want to have fun, no matter the environmental toll that activity has.

4/24/2008 2:03:14 AM

4/24/2008 2:31:56 AM

you do sound like a hippy and most 2 strokes don't have a long service life, hence them being replaced by 4 strokes


water is cleaner now in many places than it has ever been over the past say 30 or 40 years


I take it you don't know much about water and waterways, nor much about 2 strokes and 4 strokes


not trying to be a dick, but you're spouting off at the mouth and don't know what you're talking about for the most part

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 2:39 AM. Reason : !]

4/24/2008 2:39:13 AM

Quote :

"Do it wrong and they'll suck water into the engine and you get to take it apart and lube everything again. "

if you actually ingest water and get away with just lubing some stuff up, you are really, really lucky.

Quote :

" I think merc makes one (which hardly anyone buys) and evinrude/johnson still make one but it's miles above and beyond a 2 stroke outboard of the 90's "

yeah, prob just go-fast lake boats like hydrostreams, mirages, and STVs

Quote :

"gp 1300 gets my vote"

you paying half the cost for him? he won't find a GP1300 for anywhere NEAR $3000.



_________________________________________________________

while the 2-stroke sound has a certain charm, i would love to have a 4-stroke jet ski, but they don't make any that I like. There simply isn't anything like an Ultra 150 or maybe a Yamaha GP available with a 4-cycle engine. The Sea-Doo RXP is the closest, but it's much, much bigger and heavier.

4/24/2008 3:25:02 AM

Quote :

"I take it you don't know much about water and waterways, nor much about 2 strokes and 4 strokes"

Lol oh how wrong that is. I had the fortuate lifestyle of growing up with a mom who was too actively involved in everything from the catawba lands conservancy to rails-to-trails to just about every thing sustainable in NC. She's a photographer and i remember going on trips with her and having people complain about the exact same things i'm complaining about now in regard to water pollution.

One of her recent projects (bleh bleh i'm talking about my mom, please save me the comments):
http://www.catawbariverdocs.com/

On the other hand i had the unfortuate chance of having Thermo 2 with Boles last semester and so yes, lol, i do know too much about 2 stroke/4 stroke engines. I dreaded that final.

Quote :

"not trying to be a dick, but you're spouting off at the mouth and don't know what you're talking about for the most part"

It's alright. If you think i'm just "spouting off" stuff then please tell me otherwise rather than just saying i'm "spouting off" stuff. It would improve your argument much if you refuted what i had to say rather than simply saying i don't know what i'm talking about.

Quote :

"water is cleaner now in many places than it has ever been over the past say 30 or 40 years"

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/378351.html
http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/apr2008/2008-04-17-01.asp

Quote :

"The Carolinas’ failure to protect the Catawba River — an expansive waterway under siege by growth and drought — has made it the country’s most endangered river, a new report says. American Rivers says the Catawba-Wateree system is at the center of a clash between development in the Southeast and a limited water supply — and without better state management, everyone will suffer. "

Good resource:
http://h2o.enr.state.nc.us/
spent a bunch of time on that website.

Water being "clean" isn't everything. There's MANY other issues involved. People think just because they're "cleaning" up the river/lakes means they can still overdevelop them.

Quote :

"and most 2 strokes don't have a long service life, hence them being replaced by 4 strokes"

But see that still doesn't refute the fact that they are the number one source of toxic pollution in lakes in the US. And as far as i know there's still more 2 stroke jet skis in circulation than 4 stroke. Or are there more 4-strokes? See if you can prove to me using facts that there are more 4 stroke jet skis being used in lakes today than you will have made a point, but until then, you haven't said anything that's actually relevant to my original point.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 4:07 AM. Reason : .]

4/24/2008 3:49:24 AM

yamaha. hands down, end of thread. they do everything better. reliability, ride, speed, handling, you name it. anyone who says otherwise either can't ride for shit or is just putting around in coves. there are only TWO exceptions to that:

1. seedoo makes a nice lake hull. smooth water only, worth considering

2. ultra 150's a freak shows on the top end. they'll outrun most anything else by 1-2mph. no much else to them though.

serisously, you can't go wrong with a gp1200 or gp1200r. most solid all around ski i've ever been on. they're remarkable in rough water. i've been abusing mine for 8 years and it's still solid. all the winning racers are using gp hulls, and they really dominated a few years ago. still do now, but competition has caught up a bit.

basically, bottom line don't look any further than yamaha for salt water use. freshwater, i'd look at sea doos and yamahas. preferabley the gp hull in the yamaha, but the older wave raiders are no slouch. stock for stock, a raider 1100 will run right with a gp1200. handling isn't nearly as good though, but it handles the rough well.

my gp1200 has been modified a lot, but the last it was out i had it screaming along at a solid 65mph in 4-5ft. seas. just a quick flick of the throttle or shift your weight and it stayed rock solid scooting across. i've seen no other ski, stock or modified, come anywhere close to matching it in rough weather. it's a 75mph beast on glass and will hook, 180, and be going 75mph back the other way before you knew what happened. i dare say it would murder a moder sportbike in acceleration. it's a wild ride that involves every muscle in my body. i hurt for DAYS after the first couple of times at the beginning of the season. don't think water doesn't hurt at those speeds doing those maneuvers also. i've broken my nose, one tooth completely out, chipped two others, broken two ribs, and have knocked myself delerious/disoriented a number of time. of course, you don't have to ride as stupid as i do... just saying the machine is capable of kicking you in the ass, every time. other skis you can treat like a 2 dollar whore all day and the worst they do is get you wet.

that said, it (mine) is for sale in your price range. it needs the bottom end gone through and one cylinder repaired. a connecting rod stretched resulting in piston to spark plug contact. i'll include everything else i have for it. pro cool head (really nice piece, has interchangeable domes), flame arrestors, spohnsons, ride plate, intake grate, impeller, etc. motor is already torn down ready to be fixed. all the other engine parts are brand new as are all the other modifications. 20 hours maybe. go cheap and fix it like it was, or get wild and push more power out of the block. i had planned to stay stock and either turbo it or put nitrous on it. i can also give you a good recommendation for the work if you didn't want to do it yourself.

anyway, with just a little work you'd easily have the baddest ski on the water in speed and handling at a cost not much if any more than a stock one. even most of the speed boats aren't much of a match, and they get pissed, lol. there's one particular guy at falls i LOVE to mess with, he gets so angry when i pass him and he's obviously got both his motors going full tilt, lol. pm me if interested. i'd also make a package deal with my trailer and 96 waveraider 760 also. it's stock and runs great. not fast, but respectable. 50-55mph. it's a blast the sling around also. it has adjustable sphonsons. leave them down, and i'll hook in turns. pull them up, and you can slide/spin around like you're on ice. low hours on it too. maybe 100 or so. galavanized dual trailer with fairly new tires. rebuilt hubs with buddy bearings.

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 4:27 AM. Reason : .]

4/24/2008 4:11:09 AM

Quote :

"if you actually ingest water and get away with just lubing some stuff up, you are really, really lucky."

It sounds worse than it is. It doesn't happen that often...Mostly just when people hold it tipped on the right side for an extended period (15-30 seconds) and water sneaks up the exhaust pipe. The water never makes it to the bottom end as far as I can tell. Maybe if you let it sit for an extended period it would. You basically just have to pull the plugs, fire the starter (and watch the water shoot out of the spark plug holes), spray in some WD-40, put the plugs back in, and crank her up.

Those Rotax motors are generally pretty solid. They've been turning 14k RPM with them in Ski-Doo snowmobiles for years and they're generally limited to around 7k RPM in the PWC's.

The main killer on them is the oil injection system. It has a manual oil pump with nylon gears that will inevitably wear out after time. You can remove the oil pump and put on a blockoff plate for $20 and 20 minutes and you just have to pre-mix fuel after that.

4/24/2008 10:43:00 AM

^ I did not know you could purchase those. Worth looking into, particularly if the pump is already going bad.

Does it cut down efficiency or anything?

4/24/2008 2:04:52 PM

Jet skis are hella fun, but they're a huge waste of money. I'd much rather rent one than piss away thousands of dollars on something you can't use more than a couple months out of the year (and then usually only for a couple of weekends each month). On average I'd be willing to bet that most jet ski owners only get, at most 30 days of use out of them yearly. Realistically, unless you live next to a large body of water they aren't a good buy.

4/24/2008 2:08:06 PM

People on jet skis (and other fast boats...or really any boats for that matter) scare me if I'm diving in an area with boat traffic.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if you see a flag sticking out of the water that looks like this:




SLOW DOWN and go WAY around the flag (75ft+ if possible). That's a dive flag, indicating that there are divers in the water in the immediate vicinity. It is a requirement for divers in open water to use them. It is NOT a slalom flag, or something for you to come investigate.

Honestly, if all boaters knew what that flag is, we'd be better off and people wouldn't mind carrying them along while diving. Unfortunately many boat drivers don't know what a dive flag is, so they come over to investigate (the complete opposite reason for the flag), or use them as some sort of course to run (if there are multiple flags in the water).

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 2:20 PM. Reason : ]

4/24/2008 2:17:49 PM

Quote :

"you do sound like a hippy and most 2 strokes don't have a long service life, hence them being replaced by 4 strokes"

haha. i have a 1982 30 hp that is still running strong.

and all of the significant outboard manufacturers are still making 2 strokes. mercury, johnson/evinrude, and yamaha all offer 2 smokes and many people prefer them. the comment on advanced technology was very correct. 2 strokes have come a long way with computer controls, etc. the evinrude e-tec (2 stroke) puts out less emissions than a great deal of the 4 strokes and gets better mpg.


lol at this thread getting hijacked by hippies. i'm all for conservation, but what good is that river to me if i can't put my boat in it, crank up my outboard, go to my fishing hole, and enjoy a day of fishing? what makes the photographer more important than the fisherman? we can all compromise on that kind of shit.

on topic: i don't know shit about jet skis, but anything yamaha makes is usually top of the line. i'm familiar with their ATVs and their outboards and they're all at the top of my list

[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 2:40 PM. Reason : ^yes yes yes. i don't dive, but boating safety courses are a must]

4/24/2008 2:39:42 PM

Kawasaki is the only company that makes Jet Skis

4/24/2008 2:48:14 PM

Quote :

"People on jet skis (and other fast boats...or really any boats for that matter) scare me if I'm diving in an area with boat traffic. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE if you see a flag sticking out of the water that looks like this: SLOW DOWN and go WAY around the flag (75ft+ if possible). That's a dive flag, indicating that there are divers in the water in the immediate vicinity. It is a requirement for divers in open water to use them. It is NOT a slalom flag, or something for you to come investigate. Honestly, if all boaters knew what that flag is, we'd be better off and people wouldn't mind carrying them along while diving. Unfortunately many boat drivers don't know what a dive flag is, so they come over to investigate (the complete opposite reason for the flag), or use them as some sort of course to run (if there are multiple flags in the water). [Edited on April 24, 2008 at 2:20 PM. Reason : ]"

I always slow down for smaller boats and divers...

but what pisses me off (doesn't really happen here but is bad down on the reef) is when free divers are a couple hundred yards from their boat and all they have is one small yellow pole that might be 1" in diameter and a foot or two tall....

then they go out diving on the edge of the reef, knowing there is heavy boat traffic and 3-5 seas at the reef... thats stupidity... I even slowed down and asked the dude if he needed a ride, I was worried about him getting hit

4/24/2008 2:48:27 PM

If you are diving in relatively shallow water (and have your dive flag, as per requirements) it can be very unnerving and downright scary to hear a propeller from a boat screaming, getting louder as it gets closer, then passes overhead and keeps going.

It's a neat sound if you've ever heard it underwater, but not something you want to hear 4-5ft above your head.


I bought a large dive float that says "DIVER BELOW" just so people don't make any mistake as to what the flag is.




Other people use things like this:

4/24/2008 2:48:39 PM

I believe you're buyin' a personal water craft, lookin' for advice

4/24/2008 2:49:04 PM

please divers, use your flags, there is no reason we can't all enjoy the same waters together

4/24/2008 2:49:30 PM

i wish you had to have an operator's license for anything powered over about 10' and PWCs

i'd pay $20/year or so as long as the money went towards fixing public ramps, etc.



[Edited on April 24, 2008 at 2:52 PM. Reason : moneys]

4/24/2008 2:50:17 PM

Quote :

"but what pisses me off (doesn't really happen here but is bad down on the reef) is when free divers are a couple hundred yards from their boat and all they have is one small yellow pole that might be 1" in diameter and a foot or two tall.... then they go out diving on the edge of the reef, knowing there is heavy boat traffic and 3-5 seas at the reef... thats stupidity... I even slowed down and asked the dude if he needed a ride, I was worried about him getting hit"

My rules for diving:
1: Most people are stupid.
2: Most people are even more stupid and lose all common sense around water, especially if diving or skin-diving/snorkeling.


People really don't understand that they are DIFFICULT to see in the water, especially if just their head is out of the water, or they have a small flag. That's why mine is large.


You are absolutely right, they shouldn't venture that far from the boat if they are diving from a boat. In this particular instance I am more worried about the relatively shallow rivers in eastern NC that I will be diving in a lot this summer.

4/24/2008 2:52:39 PM

thats cool, I'd really like to learn how to dive though... something I've always wanted to do

4/24/2008 2:53:29 PM

------->

4/24/2008 2:54:44 PM