I'm thinking of back country firefighting this summer out here on the west coast and am wondering if anyone has had any experience with it. I guess the average hours per week is something upwards of 75, and you do get paid for overtime, along with getting to see some of the most beautiful places in the country and a ton of free training. But the work is backbreaking and you can be in the wilderness for weeks at a time.

Anyone have any advice/experience/stories/pictures to share? Thanks.

3/24/2008 5:16:28 PM

Quote :

"getting to see some of the most beautiful places in the country "

as they burn to the ground.

3/24/2008 6:45:41 PM

Just go rent Firestorm with Howie Long.

3/24/2008 6:53:43 PM

ask Fumbler

3/24/2008 7:09:14 PM

where on the west coast are you?

3/24/2008 7:26:34 PM

WOOHOO!

I actually haven't fought fire on the west coast, but hope to go this summer.
I have fought fire all over our state, in Texas, and in Georgia.

The US Forest Service has and administratively determined "AD" pay rate for every position on a fire. The AD pay rate is what you'll get paid if you're not part of a state or private contract crew.
Just starting off as a new firefighter you'll be a "firefighter type 2" or FFT2.
-AD pay rate for a FFT2 is $13.24/hr
-Typical work is 14-16 hrs/day, no time and a half
-That's $1300-1500 per week
-dispatches are for 14 days plus up to two days travel on each end of the trip
-you'll have to take basic wildland firefighting classes (S190 & S130)
-you'll have to take the arduous pack test. That means you'll have to hump 45 lbs 3 miles in 45 minutes or less

What you need to do is contact local firefighting agencies. These could be volunteer fire departments, paid fire departments, state forestry agencies, US Forest Service, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Indian Affairs, National Park Service, US Fish & Wildlife, etc.
Let them know you're interested and find out who offering S190/130.

Some agencies do offer seasonal jobs as firefighters. I know the USFS and BLM do.

Typically those who are interested, but not affiliated with an agency, can get the classes and the pack test whenever an agency offers it.
Sometimes those agencies will let you borrow some safety equipment (hardhat, nomex, pack, fire shelter).
Then, typically if they get a dispatch then they'll contact you and let you come with them or will let you know when another agency is looking for people. There are also some private contract crews that you might be able to work with.

Speaking of safety equipment, the NFPA requirements for wildland firefighting are:
-hardhat
-safety glasses or goggles
-leather or other NFPA approved gloves
-nomex pants & shirt (Don't bring structural firefighting turnout gear unless you want to have a heat stroke)
-natural fiber t-shirt, socks, and underwear (unless you want your spandex man panties to melt to your ass)
-8" tall leather boots
-fire shelter

I like wool socks. They're hot, but they keep blisters down and are more durable.
Also, your boots really need to have as little sythetic material as possible. I've seen boots with the midsoles squished out the sides after walking on hot ground. The best boots are made by Nick's, Whites, and Wesco and will cost you $3-500. Decent boots also include Redwing and Danner. Some seasoned guys use the La Sportiva Glaciers. Apparently they'll hold up pretty well even though they have synthetic midsoles.
If you're gonna get some new boots then don't be that new guy who shows up with a nice shiney pair of $400 Nick's. You'll get laughed at as you patch up your bleeding feet and ankles. Break them in reallll good before you get on a fire.

Other junk you'll need or would be a good idea to have:
-drinking water. Lots and lots of drinking water. Like 1.5 gallons a day. Six 32 oz nalgene bottles or the cheap GSA canteens should do.
-A headlamp is also a good idea.
-tent (may be provided by the agency you get dispatched with)
-sleeping bag
-baby wipes
-extra boot laces
-an 8" double cut bastard file in case they hand you a POS pulaski and expect you to cut stuff down with it
-hankerchiefs
-multitool
-camera
-lighter in case you have to set a backfire
Just keep in mind when you travel your pack is limited to 40 lbs and your travel bag is limited to 65 lbs. These limits are in case you get air lifted with helicopters.

Firefighting can be really hard work. It's not dangerous as long as you stay calm, keep your eyes and ears open, constantly think about the training you've had, and listen to your crew boss.
As far as the "as they burn to the ground" comment...there's nothing more beautiful than standing on the side of a mountain under the stars watching the glow of a fire and hearing it crackle.

If you've got more questions then I've got more answers.

[Edited on March 24, 2008 at 9:12 PM. Reason : damn typos]

3/24/2008 8:52:50 PM

^ Thanks a ton! that is extremely helpful.

I'm in Salem, Oregon right now and start taking the classes this Thursday. The man I talked to said they get shipped all over Washington, Oregon and California. I think the people I will be working with are a private crew, since the quoted pay rate was 11, but I would get overtime pay.

I guess I have to start shopping around for some good boots. When I was hitchhiking, that was my biggest mistake, not to have a good pair.

This might be a strange question, but I was wondering what kinds of people are usually out there fighting fires? I figure I'll be spending weeks at a time with them, along with having to trust them, sometimes, with my life.


Thanks again, im sure ill have more questions later

3/25/2008 12:59:24 PM

ALL sorts of people.

Government agency crews made of full time employees are typically well mannered regular white guys. BIA crews, naturally, are typically all native american. The guys range in age from 18-60 with most in their mid 20s-late 30s.
Contract crews range from real professional guys to drunkards. In the west you'll see quite a few hispanic contract crews who plant trees in the winter months.
Crews from volunteer fire departments (and seasonal gov employees) are typically younger guys with wide open personalities.
There are a few women scattered about. Most of them will probably be more fit than you are.

You'll see the occassional army national guard crews, prison crews (a few all women prison crews), and hotshot crews.

Without knowing who you're working for then it's hard to figure out what they might be like. Being a contract crew they're likely just a bunch of guys like you.

Overall, firefighters are a good bunch to be with.

As far as trusting your life to the guys you work with...you all have to watch each others' backs, but follow the oldest guy with the most worn out equipment who's in the best physical shape. He's most likely the most experienced...

[Edited on March 25, 2008 at 2:59 PM. Reason : ]

3/25/2008 2:56:07 PM

I forgot to mention...wildland firefighting goes like this:
-hurry up and pack for the dispatch
-wait while paperwork gets done
-hurry up and travel to the fire
-wait to check in
-wait to get your equipment
-wait to get your crew's assignment
-hurry up to get to your transportation to your division
-wait for transportation to your division
-get on the fire and bust your ass going up a mountain
-do that for 14 days
-reverse the waiting process on your trip home

Be prepared for a lot of hurrying up and a lot more waiting.

Also, your pay might be $11 per hr because you won't be a fully qualified FFT2, you'll be a FFT2 trainee.

And, don't skimp on the boots.
It's better to pay $300-400 on a good pair that fit your feet well and break in well vs spending $200 on a pair that never break in correctly and fall apart.
Being on the west coast, you'll probably find some local shops that stock the good boots. If you order from the companies then it could take up to 2 months to get a pair. Four months if you get them custom fitted or custom cut.
Typical firefighting boots (Nick's, Wesco, White's) will take at least 2 weeks of regular wear to break them in.
You can mix a spray bottle with 1/2 rubbing alcohol and 1/2 water. Put the boots on tight and spray them down with the diluted alcohol. When they dry out then wet them down again. It'll ruin your socks because of the leather dye, but it will also speed up the break in.
Once your boots are broken in then put on a good boot grease. The boot grease will make the leather somewhat waterproof, will keep the leather soft, will help reduce wear, and will prevent dryrotting.
I like Obenauf's boot grease.

When you're putting together your pack/travel bag, keep in mind you'll be gone for 2 weeks. You never know when, or if, you'll get to shower and you won't know if there will be any laundry service.
Some of the more hardcore handcrew guys in the NCFS like to pack 18 pairs of underwear, 18 pairs of wool socks, 9 undershirts, 3 nomex shirts, and 3 nomex (they use advanced nomex) pants. They wear one set of nomex for a week, then the clean set for the trip home.
Those are the hardcore guys...most everyone else adds enough nomex for a week.
You'll wanna bring any stuff you might like to have like books, ipods, etc. Definately bring a camera to document your trip. If you bring a digital camera then take it in a hard waterproof case...waterproof cause you never know when you'll get dumped on by an air tanker.
Just keep your weight limit in mind.

Who exactly are you going to be working for and will they provide your safety gear?

[Edited on March 25, 2008 at 4:23 PM. Reason : ]

3/25/2008 4:08:34 PM

I just got a text message from our ops room...my boss is asking for handcrew volunteers to go to a project fire in Stokes County.
I don't feel like going...I hope I don't get volunteered.

[Edited on March 27, 2008 at 12:16 AM. Reason : cant spell worth a carp]

3/27/2008 12:13:19 AM

^ THANKS MAN

http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=520294

3/27/2008 6:26:30 AM

Just finished the S190 & S130 and am certified. Now, I guess, all I have to do is wait for the call? (Well, and buy and break in my boots).

The company Ill be with is North Pacific Forestry, all sorts of people in the crews. I'm pretty excited.

3/31/2008 9:31:14 PM

Looks like Fumbler has it covered but I'll put in my 2 cents.

I worked with a guy who was a wildland firefighter. From what he told me, the work is 12 hours a day of digging a line in the ground with a pulaski. To be a firefighter he had to pass some test of walking 3 miles in 45 minutes wearing a 50lbs backpack. Said he was hallucinating at the end of it

4/1/2008 11:36:11 AM

Quote :

"-Typical work is 14-16 hrs/day, no time and a half -That's $1300-1500 per week -you'll have to take the arduous pack test. That means you'll have to hump 45 lbs 3 miles in 45 minutes or less"

Quote :

"To be a firefighter he had to pass some test of walking 3 miles in 45 minutes wearing a 50lbs backpack."

the pack test is 45 lbs.
i know from waiting to talk to him each day he's gone that it's usually a 14-16 hour day, esp if the fire is really bad. i think while he was in GA that he had to be "at work" by 7a and didn't get back to his hotel room until after 9p, iirc.

as far as what you do while you're there, you'll dig hand line if you're just starting out i guess. there are other things to do though, i don't remember what all they are...

Fumbler is coming home today (first time EVER that he gets to come home early...it's always later than they say initially) so he could tell you what the other jobs are.

4/1/2008 1:36:36 PM

This adds to the list of physically challenging things I want to do just so I can say I did them.

The other two things would be, (1) Get through Navy SEAL training and (2) Do the Crab boat thingee that's on Deadliest Catch.

4/1/2008 1:39:32 PM

sign up to be a smoke jumper out west somewhere. you parachute from a helicopter and you're up on the mountain with nothing but the stuff you brought in and camping for a couple of weeks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokejumper

4/1/2008 1:44:06 PM

I met a smoke jumper on an airplane once. he told me that a couple times a year he goes out into the South Dakota badlands and smokes peyote for a week to get his mind right

4/1/2008 2:32:05 PM

that sounds like a fun adventure to do, or a gratifying job, but shit - you'd have to pay me more than $15/hour to do backbreaking work for 16 hours a day, or at least include time and a half. That pay fucking sucks for such hard and dangerous work

4/1/2008 2:52:04 PM

^yeah, I'm not doing it for the $$. It just has always been something ive wanted to do. Ill post pictures when I get my first fire.

4/1/2008 3:32:08 PM

my brother did this for awhile, eventually got on the carson hotshot crew, i've thought about doing it

4/1/2008 5:24:24 PM