It would literally make America have the highest tax brackets and most socialized state in the world. If you can't pay your credit card bills or mortgage, the government steps in and pays it for you. And a million other worthless pieces of shit spending plans like that. It is seriously, fucking retarded. People are already careless with their credit card spending. How much worse do you think it will get if there are absolutely zero consequences for them racking up more debt than they can afford to pay off? I guarantee the white/blaques/ and mexicant trash of this country will sign up for houses they can't afford and buy a shit ton of goods on credit card that they can't afford all bc they know then that the gubmint will come in and pay it off. It's a free ticket to spend.

Seriously, if Obama wins the election, the taxpayers in this country will be hiding their funds. The financial underworld is already talking about a black market business for hiding funds. So in addition to spending a shit ton of money, Obama will have to do it with less funds since the rich people will hide their income much better than they do now.

edit->

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-09-18-obama-tax-plan_N.htm

^plz make sure to read past the bullshit. the key to remember here is....
Capital gains goes from 15% to 28%
income tax 35% to 39%
social security tax would also increase
but here's the kicker....all of these tax increases STILL won't cover all the new programs he wants.
He wants the gov't to fucking take over.



[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 7:01 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 6:50:51 PM

Oh, almost forgot the best part -- capital gains tax goes from 15% to 28%. Fucking brilliant. That's a great way to put our economy in the shitter. Have fun working until the age of 80 now too. Anything outside of a 401(k) or IRA will be impossible to manage now. Seriously, watch the stock market if he gets elected. I am going to short the shit out of stocks everywhere.

2/28/2008 6:51:28 PM

link plz

2/28/2008 6:51:34 PM

words

2/28/2008 6:52:44 PM

Quote :

"I guarantee the white/blaques/ and mexicant trash of this country will sign up for houses they can't afford and buy a shit ton of goods on credit card that they can't afford all bc they know then that the gubmint will come in and pay it off. It's a free ticket to spend."

I'm sure that's exactly how it will work.

2/28/2008 6:53:23 PM

http://www.slate.com/id/2184480/

2/28/2008 6:53:32 PM

That article has nothing to do with his budget plan.

2/28/2008 6:56:46 PM

1st post updated.

2/28/2008 7:00:32 PM

Rat's just as bad as-

The whackjobs that hijacked greenpeace and make claims that the icecaps will melt 20% in the next 20 years.
The government sponsored film makers who claimed that marijuana would make you grow breasts, go crazy, and kill your friends.
People who claim that there a STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT link between moderate second hand smoke exposure and lung cancer in non smokers.
People who fight frankenfruit by claiming there is no testing or safety regulations for it.

Any point he might have is drowned by the fact that everything that comes out of his mouth is insane gibberish that fails to match up to any semblance of the real world.

2/28/2008 7:04:16 PM

^

wow. what part of math didn't you understand in school?

2/28/2008 7:05:38 PM

soap box this shit

2/28/2008 7:09:21 PM

take this shit to Soap Box

2/28/2008 7:09:26 PM

^^^What I understand is that any reasonable criticisms you might have for his plan are drowned out by absolutely moronic lines like:

Quote :

"I guarantee the white/blaques/ and mexicant trash of this country will sign up for houses they can't afford and buy a shit ton of goods on credit card that they can't afford all bc they know then that the gubmint will come in and pay it off. It's a free ticket to spend."

You've got to think that everyone else but you is a mentally retarded semi-aborted fetus if you think we'll buy rhetoric like that. Your arrogance, condescension (your last post is a good example of that) and lunacy make listening to you a chore at best and more often vomit-inducing. You're using the same bad argument techniques that left-wing alarmists use too and you don't even realize it.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 7:09 PM. Reason : ]

2/28/2008 7:09:28 PM

I don't understand why this news is coming as a shock to you. Have you been asleep since last September?

2/28/2008 7:10:04 PM

^^OMG NOBODY WILL BUY INTO MY MASTER PLAN NOW

^no. just finally realizing i don't want another $500 of my money each month going to shitty programs he is trying to start

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 7:12 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 7:11:12 PM

Rat, the Republicans sure did a good job with the economy in the past 8 years, eh?

2/28/2008 7:14:02 PM

Ratarded

2/28/2008 7:16:45 PM

I haven't seen an actual Republican in over 15 years

2/28/2008 7:20:06 PM

I haven't seen there hasn't been an actual Republican in over 15 30 years

2/28/2008 7:24:01 PM

Quote :

"Rat, the Republicans sure did a good job with the economy in the past 8 years, eh?"

yes. yes they have. i have more money in my pockets per paycheck and more consumer confidence than i have had in years. all of my friends and family have had little to no problems getting a great job.

thank you for pointing that out.

2/28/2008 7:28:52 PM

I've had more money in my pockets than I have had in years.

But I associate that with being out of college and having a job that pays.

GG Republicans on finding me a job

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 7:41 PM. Reason : ]

2/28/2008 7:41:00 PM

there is a section on the wolf web we like to call The Soap Box

this thread belongs there

2/28/2008 7:43:20 PM

wait, wait, wait . . . I can grow breasts on a marijuana plant?


sweet!

2/28/2008 8:15:30 PM

No one will call him on this.

2/28/2008 8:17:48 PM

wait wait, you make 150k/yr?

2/28/2008 8:29:19 PM

balack obama

2/28/2008 8:35:50 PM

Quote :

"Capital gains goes from 15% to 28%"

Quote :

"capital gains ... would be between 20% and 28% — the rate President Reagan set in 1986."

Quote :

"income tax 35% to 39%"

the only "39" I could find in the article, while the only instances of "income" refer to lowering taxes:

Quote :

"20% for capital gains and 39.6% for dividends"

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 8:41 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 8:38:02 PM

SHIT'S WEAK

2/28/2008 8:38:52 PM

also the title of the article is

Obama plan: $80B in tax relief

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 8:43 PM. Reason : .]

2/28/2008 8:43:14 PM

wait, someone tell me how this compares to Hillary's plan

2/28/2008 8:46:42 PM

Quote :

"yes. yes they have. i have more money in my pockets per paycheck and more consumer confidence than i have had in years. all of my friends and family have had little to no problems getting a great job. thank you for pointing that out."

Really?




Yeah I enjoyed that $49.03 gas bill yesterday: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/business/27cnd-gas.html?hp

Quote :

" The increases could not come at a worse time for the economy. With growth slowing, energy increases that were once easily absorbed by consumers are now more likely to act as a drag on household budgets, leaving people with less money to spend elsewhere. These costs could worsen the nation’s economic woes, piling a fresh energy shock on top of the turmoil in credit and housing. "

Oh, and that subprime mortgage situation is great. Do I even need to link an article for that?



Also, this: http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hiVtV2zuQIAFn_h-JnQjvVSfPTRgD8V3E1IO5

Quote :

" BERLIN (AP) — The dollar dipped to another record low Thursday as the Commerce Department reported that the economy braked to a near halt in the final quarter of 2007. Gross domestic product increased at a scant 0.6 percent pace in the October-to-December quarter, according to the report. The reading on gross domestic product underscored just how much momentum the economy lost in the final quarter, dragged down by a scarcity of credit and a plunging housing market. Gross domestic product (GDP) measures the value of all goods and services produced in the United States. That finding pushed the 15-nation euro to a record $1.5188 in late afternoon European trading — up from $1.5120 in New York the previous night and above its previous record of $1.5143 reached earlier Wednesday. The British pound rose to $1.9897 from $1.9842. The dollar dipped to 105.55 Japanese yen from 106.45 yen. "With sentiment becoming increasingly pessimistic as to the outlook for the U.S. economy, it seems as if it will take a notable shift in sentiment if we're to see any real recovery," said Gary Thomson, head of sales trading at CMC Markets. On the heels of the Commerce Department report, the Labor Department reported Thursday that new applications for unemployment insurance benefits rose by 19,000 to 373,000 last week, more evidence that the general economic sluggishness is spilling over into the job market. Despite reassurances from President Bush on Thursday that the U.S. was not headed into recession, the latest batch of economic news rattled investors, sending the Dow Jones industrials down more than 128 points in morning trading. The euro topped $1.50 for the first time since its 1999 introduction early Wednesday, then surged above $1.51 after markets took comments from the Federal Reserve chairman as a sign that yet more U.S. rate cuts are on the way. Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke said that "the economic situation has become distinctly less favorable" since last summer. "

I was going to bold parts, but the whole entire fucking article pretty much contradicts everything you're saying.

If you enjoy this situation, vote for John McCain.

2/28/2008 8:46:42 PM

Quote :

"until the age of 80 now too"

by the time i'm 80 the life expectancy will prolly be like 100

2/28/2008 8:47:38 PM

[since the rich people will hide their income much better than they do now.]
why would rich people hide their money when they get the most tax cuts from bush?

2/28/2008 10:57:51 PM

first of all, this attitude of "fuck the rich" is retarded

second, did you actually read what he was saying? his point was that if you hike the taxes through the roof on the so-called "rich", it will become more financially advantageous to just find ways around paying the taxes.


i don't know such a huge % of our population thinks that MORE taxes are a good idea.

2/28/2008 11:01:48 PM

No new taxes!

No new taxes!

No new taxes!

hamirite?

2/28/2008 11:03:45 PM

i wish we could get rid of social security...

2/28/2008 11:04:25 PM

^^i wish

we need to start shitcanning lots of existing taxes, and shitcanning an even greater amount of money spent on federal programs. the gov't gets involved in TONS of things it has no reason or legal right to be involved in...if we're going to have gov't doing some of these things, at least let it be done on a state by state basis, and let's stop wiping our ass with the Constitution.

^maybe we could just stop enrolling new participants, allow any current participants to voluntarily opt out of further contributions, and just take the baby-boom red ink in the budgetary ass. it would hurt like a bitch in the short term, but be a good deal over the long haul.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:08 PM. Reason : asfd]

2/28/2008 11:06:28 PM

how do you recommend we pay for the 4 trillion dollars we spent on iraq?

2/28/2008 11:09:05 PM

i don't think a solution for America is coming from this thread

2/28/2008 11:09:49 PM

haha tdub to the rescue

2/28/2008 11:14:24 PM

well, that doesn't answer what i asked you, but...

we need to cut spending in tons of other places. i don't think we could cut enough to balance it out, but it would be a good start.

regardless, if we need more tax money to do something, burden everyone with it. Everyone thinks all sorts of dumbassery is a good idea, so long as they can say "Fuck it, we'll just have the rich pay for it!"

Finally, the so-called "rich", as defined by the tax code, are in many cases no such thing. Making a couple hundred grand per year will get you absolutely bent over by the IRS, yet you are still solidly upper middle class.

2/28/2008 11:14:47 PM

Quote :

"why would rich people hide their money when they get the most tax cuts from bush?"

The fact that you posted ^ proves that you have been living under a rock and have no clue how the world really works. You will most likely fail at life. Might be better if you just go ahead and curl up and die now.

Quote :

"Every day, ten men went to a restaurant for dinner. They always ordered the same meals, and the bill for their food always came to exactly $100.00. They did this day after day, year after year, without variation. They did not divide the cost of the bill up equally among them, however. Since some of the men were more wealthy than others, they all agreed that an equal split would be unfair to those with less money. So, the men decided to pay the bill in precisely the same way we all pay our income taxes. The first four men paid nothing at all. They ate for free. The fifth man paid $1.00; the sixth paid $3.00; the seventh paid $7.00; the eighth paid $12.00; the ninth paid $18.00. And the tenth man, who was by far the richest of them, paid exactly $59.00, which was most of the $100.00 bill. He didn't mind, however, since he could afford to pay that amount. All was well. The ten men were happy with this arrangement, and they continued to eat at the restaurant every single day, enjoying their time together. Then one day... the owner of the restaurant threw them a curve. As they stood at the counter to pay their bill, he announced that he would reduce the cost of the meals for them. "Since you are all such great customers, and I am so appreciative of your business," he said, "I am going to reduce the total bill for your meals by $20.00. From now on, your ten dinners will cost you only $80.00." The men were pleased. But the situation did present a problem. How were they to divvy up the savings among them? Obviously, they could not simply credit $2.00 (one-tenth of the $20.00 savings) to each of the ten men, since that would mean that the first four men would actually be getting paid $2.00 to eat! No good. It only seemed fair that the first four men, who paid nothing to begin with, should likewise not get any of this $20.00 refund. But still, there was a problem. If they now divided the $20.00 savings among the remaining six men, that would be $3.33 per man. If that amount were subtracted from each man's payment, then the fifth man and sixth man, who had been paying $1.00 and $3.00 respectively, would then be getting paid to eat. That wouldn't work, either. No, the solution to this problem required some ingenuity. Just then, the restaurant owner, who had been listening to the discussion, interrupted. He offered a solution. He suggested that the fairest way to settle this dilemma would be to reduce each man's bill by the same proportion as he had been paying in the first place. The owner walked over to his calculator and figured out the amounts each man should pay. And so it was agreed. The fifth man, instead of paying $1.00, now paid nothing, just like the first four men had always done. The sixth man paid $2.00 (reduced from $3.00); the seventh paid $5.00 (reduced from $7.00); the eighth paid $9.00 (reduced from $12.00); the ninth paid $12.00 (reduced from $18.00). This left the tenth man with a bill of $52.00, instead of his previous bill of $59.00. The men paid their bill according to this arrangement, and they left the restaurant, satisfied. Outside the restaurant, however, the men began to compare their savings. The sixth man started complaining. "I only got one dollar out of the $20.00 savings. That's not much," he said. He pointed to the tenth man and declared, "And he got $7.00. What gives? That's not fair. He's rich. He doesn't need the money. Why did he get $7.00, when I only got $1.00?" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that the rich guy got seven times more than I did! I surely have a much greater need for money the he does." "That's true," shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get back $7.00, when I got back only $2.00? That stinks! The wealthy get all the breaks. The rich just get richer." "Wait a minute!" yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. Not one stinking cent! The rich fellow, who drives here every day in a Lexus, got $7.00, and we all take public transit to this restaurant, and we got nothing at all. This system exploits the poor." With that, the men became angry. "And I lost everything," said one of the four. "My wife left me, my daughter is in the hospital, and I can't get work. I could sure use a break. Instead, I got not one lousy penny of the $20.00, and I have to watch this guy who's filthy rich take $7.00 of it! I won't stand for it!" The nine men surrounded the tenth. Their anger mounted as they continued to express their resentment at what they thought was a supreme injustice. Finally, they lost control of their senses. They beat up the tenth man. They left him bloody in the street, and they went home. The next day, the tenth man did not show up for their regular dinner. The nine men sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something: they were $52.00 short! Needless to say, that was the last time those men ever ate at that restaurant. I wish I could say that these nine men learned a valuable lesson, that they came to understand the principle upon which a tax cut is based. But they didn't. They were too stupid to understand. "

2/28/2008 11:18:54 PM

imagine if all the money spent in iraq went to our infrastructure

2/28/2008 11:20:01 PM

if you raise taxes, you need to raise tariffs as well.

just saying...

2/28/2008 11:23:47 PM

^^most of the infrastructure should be paid for by the states, whereas all of iraq should be paid for by the Feds.

it SHOULD be almost all from two different pools of money.

furthermore, there is no reason to spend that much on infrastructure--save it for a rainy day (or give it back to the taxpayers...which is kind of the same thing in the big picture) when you need big money like that again (you know, like...should we find ourselves at war again somewhere down the road).


^ fuck tariffs. protectionism is generally a bad idea.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:25 PM. Reason : asdfasd]

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:26 PM. Reason : ASFDasdA]

2/28/2008 11:25:00 PM

Quote :

"furthermore, there is no reason to spend that much on infrastructure"

what

2/28/2008 11:29:32 PM

Quote :

"Finally, the so-called "rich", as defined by the tax code, are in many cases no such thing. Making a couple hundred grand per year will get you absolutely bent over by the IRS, yet you are still solidly upper middle class."

And what about the ones that are middle class to start with?

2/28/2008 11:29:50 PM

democrats. More like spend o crats. AM I RIGHT?

2/28/2008 11:34:05 PM

^^^ you really think we need to spend the amount we're spending on Iraq on roads, bridges, dams, etc...in addition to what we already spend on them?

^^i'm not for regressive taxation. i'm just for neutral taxation (even effectively neutral, for lack of a better term, would be fine--i.e., accounting for the fact that money you make up to a certain point isn't really discretionary income). I'd really like to see a consumption based tax...maybe a VAT?

^yeah, you're right in a big way, but the Republicans aren't much, if any, better...at least not in the last 10 years or so (being generous on the timeframe).

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:35 PM. Reason : asdfadas]

2/28/2008 11:34:29 PM

Quote :

"fuck tariffs. protectionism is generally a bad idea."

your companies are competing against governments who don't collect as much money to protect the environment, its citizens, or Iraq. You need to adjust them accordingly.

[Edited on February 28, 2008 at 11:40 PM. Reason : 're]

2/28/2008 11:35:39 PM