I have regular floorstanding front L/R speakers now and looking for some rear surrounds.....however, i don't like the look and sound of the smaller rear surrounds that are on the market now...

so i'm wondering if i can find another pair of cheap front L/R speakers, can I use those as rear speakers in a 5.1 surround setup while watching movies but then when listening to CD music, turn my receiver to Multi-Channel 5.1 and have them come out evenly in the rear as well?

this would be my ideal goal

i want to rock my neighbors and get expelled from the complex....j/k

[Edited on October 30, 2007 at 11:52 AM. Reason : k]

10/30/2007 11:52:06 AM

as long as you hook them up correctly, should be more or less ok

10/30/2007 12:13:03 PM

I doubt you care, but upmixing CD stereo music to 5.1 usually makes it sound kind of mushy anyways. Some of this has to do with the quality of the upmixing, but mostly it's because the THD for the rear channels on moderate/low priced receivers is about 10x that of the front channels. Basically, the rears are there for effect in cheap systems not for accurate sound reproduction.

Since you just care about it being loud, the short answer is yes you can use whatever speakers you want really as long as they have the right impedance and all. The same kind as your front speakers should be fine. Just be aware that if you're using 4-5 speakers with woofers instead of just 2-3 the music is going to sound a lot more bass heavy (with the same settings you've been using.) This might sound like a good thing, but if the response of your speakers in the bass range is sloppy and shitty then it's going to sound sloppier and shittier than it did before.

[Edited on October 30, 2007 at 12:14 PM. Reason : ]

10/30/2007 12:13:33 PM

what kind of speakers have you been looking at? cause i know of a few surround speakers that are still reasonably priced that sound well for music and movies. what speakers do you have now/price range to spend/reciever and other components. before i had a lot of speakers, my roommate had his (floor) speakers as surrounds and my jbl e50's up front just because they sounded better. but if you dont watch movies or care about volume instead of quality i guess it doesnt matter. also as said before, multi-channel stereo sounds way better than upmixing a non 5.1, etc formatted signal. when i had mine playing 7 channel stereo, it was pretty killer, but it sounded terrible upmixed.

10/30/2007 12:26:28 PM

Make sure the impedance rating on the new speaker matches the one you replace. They're likely 8ohm, but others aren't uncommon on cheap stereos. Go too low and you could blow your amp. Otherwise it'll be fine.

[Edited on October 30, 2007 at 12:31 PM. Reason : 8ohm = 8horseshoe symbol]

10/30/2007 12:31:01 PM

ok here's the details of my setup:
- onkyo tx-ds676 5.1 receiver
- polk front L/R R40 floorstanding speakers
- polk center CS245
- KLH subwoofer (yeah yeah yeah)

so I want to get a similar polk for my rear surrounds

this is what I use my setup most for
50% - TV (i set to 5.1 multichannel)
30% - music (i set to 5.1 multichannel)
20 % - movies (i set to whatever the receiver picks up, sometimes DTS)

so my question is if i get the same front L/R speakers as my rear L/R surrounds,
for music, will I get even output out of these 4 speakers when set to 5.1 multichannel?
and
for movies, will the rear L/R automatically output surround effects if on DTS

i will hook up the rear L/R to my rear outputs on the receiver....
or let me throw in a monkeywrench, what if I hook the rear L/R to my Speaker B outputs?

10/30/2007 12:35:52 PM

probably not unless its something silly like dvd audio or something formatted for 5.1. i would just match your polk fronts with surrounds, thats what i have and they sound good and the frequencies will match up well and sound better for stuff that is actually 5.1 like tv and movies. with the multi-channel stereo enabled it will still be fine and sound pretty good. your call but personally i think its a waste of money to pay so much for floor speakers in the rear - they wont be utilized well enough to make it worth it.

10/30/2007 1:09:08 PM

well, seeing that 80% of my listening will be in multichannel mode, that's why i thought getting rear floorstanding like my fronts would give me the best sound......i guess "best" as in even and loud...also i just like the look of these tall floorstanding speakers lol.....

but what surrounds do you have?

10/30/2007 1:17:17 PM

i have polkaudio rti4's which sound pretty good. if you like the looks and the volume of the floor speakers though, im sure that they will not sound "bad" by any means, just personally i dont know that i would do it, but i was looking for bookshelf speakers when i got mine for ease of placement and price. however in multi-channel mode like 5.1/6/7etc the speakers are not used evenly, for instance you might hear background noise or something to help with the setting of the particular scene or whatnot or anything that was meant to have direction to it. again personally i listened to music on mine, but was more picky about movies since i watch a lot of movies and im real anal about those qualities. im sure you will find people with different advice, i think sound is a lot of personal preference though and how you enjoy listening to your system.

[Edited on October 30, 2007 at 1:29 PM. Reason : check out crutchfield.com for some reviews/products/etc and it might help you decide]

10/30/2007 1:28:44 PM

get the same, or similarly powerful speakers for the rear as you have for the front.

10/30/2007 1:33:02 PM

YOU NEED TO VISIT MY HOUSE!

HAHAHA YOU'D <3 IT.


I don't have floor standing rears because it would over- power the bass (500 watt hsu 12"sub + 6 8" mid bass + 6 8" kevlar mid ranges total between the other speakers is plenty). The smaller speakers may not sound good alone but mixed with your fronts you may not want to have any more bass in the room.

i think your center channel can also be used as rears... if so thats what i would do.

(cs =center/satellite?)

10/30/2007 2:14:25 PM

if i go with surround speakers for the rear, and play music on 5.1 channel stereo, will it sound unbalanced? like if i'm standing in the middle of the room, will the back sound weaker? b/c that is my main gripe i want it to sound evenly throughout the room...esp if i'm gonna throw a party

i would love to hook up another center in the back but alas i only have 5.1 and one center speaker connection on the receiver.

10/30/2007 2:27:16 PM

i meant you should buy 2 more speakers like your center to use as the rears. if i remember correctly the "c/s" designation means they can be used as centers or surround speakers.

mine sounds balanced in 5.1 and i have

fronts

rears

center




and this sub http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-ho.html

bass is omni-directional so you don't need every speaker to have a bass driver. and little speakers will produce mid-highs just as well as big ones... i would try to stick with the same series if possible (search timbre matching in google) and as long as you do that the volume should be consistent across each speaker. my rears are intentionally turned down 2db from the fronts because they're RIGHT behind my couch and the fronts are 10' away so when sitting on my couch equal sound is coming from each speaker and it makes a delightful *sweet spot* but you don't really notice that its been done throughout the rest of the room.

[Edited on October 30, 2007 at 3:20 PM. Reason : clarify 1st line]

10/30/2007 3:18:20 PM

sumfoo! you are some fool! i'm drooling with your setup.....what kind of receiver do you have? what did this all cost you....so far i'm up to $200 lol i'm a cheapskate

10/30/2007 3:51:35 PM

yamaha rx-v 1600 right now shortly going to be a 3800 prolly around xmas
or i may split and get an amp and a separate audio processor


to be honest though.... its almost annoying when your stereo is decent enough to be able to tell a huge difference between and mp3 and a lossless format like flac or the original track.



[Edited on October 30, 2007 at 4:26 PM. Reason : there are people on here with better setups than mine tho]

10/30/2007 4:20:00 PM

nice receiver...just give me a few years...i'll be up there...j/k

10/30/2007 4:29:28 PM

cd's are stereo you're ruining it!

10/30/2007 5:20:19 PM

hahaha yeah i know... i play good recordings in pure direct... other than when i'm having a party and want more louder.
i do have some audio dvds now too which is fun.

10/30/2007 5:38:09 PM

Quote :

"if i go with surround speakers for the rear, and play music on 5.1 channel stereo, will it sound unbalanced? like if i'm standing in the middle of the room, will the back sound weaker? b/c that is my main gripe i want it to sound evenly throughout the room...esp if i'm gonna throw a party"

i think thats what i was getting at. using 5.1 MAKES the back sound weaker because thats what its supposed to be. 5.1 is for sitting facing the tv, using the back (surround) speakers as the ambient 'surround' sounds coming from the scene. using X.X (5.1 in your case) channel stereo would fix that, and in this case it wouldnt matter where the speakers were placed (since they all play the same thing) and yes it might be more beneficial to have identical speakers - like a club/venue - good for filling a room with loud sound, but not made for watching tv/movies.

edit: and i think sumfoo hit it pretty much directly on the head, smaller speakers are fine for rears. just change the setting on your receiver when you listen to music to stereo rather than 5.1 and it will be fine. mine on 7ch stereo was louder than anyone elses house ive been to at a party and would move the neighbors fan downstairs.

[Edited on October 30, 2007 at 11:00 PM. Reason : .]

10/30/2007 10:55:38 PM

heh you never came to a party at my house then (and I threw a shit-ton)

yes, fine to use front speakers as rears, speakers are speakers... some are nicer than others... every speaker is different, matched sets are made to have the same general characteristics throughout the set and are good for balancing, but you can overcome this by properly adjusting your reciever settings(as everyone else said)... my rear speakers are a lot more sensitive(5dB, 87vs92) than my front AND are directly beside the couch so I have them turned down like 8dB... another room I have a 15" speaker on each corner and then the center... and yet it's still nice to have a sub b/c of the LFE channel...

If your stereo has 5channel/7channel stereo put it on that when your listening to music, or put it on a music setting not a Home theater setting

[Edited on October 31, 2007 at 1:49 PM. Reason : just to have contributed something other than banter...]

10/31/2007 1:42:45 PM

yeah i actually have 5.1 channel stereo

10/31/2007 6:11:05 PM

Question for the masses.

Do your receivers have some sort of mode (call it 5.1 'stereo') where it drives the rear channels with the same amount of power that it drives the front two? I have a pretty old DD/DTS 5.1 receiver and when I played a stereo track in 5.1 mode, it definitely seemed like the rear channels were some "sampling" and possibly frequency banded version of the main track. But I can definitely see a newer receiver having a specific mode where you can replicate the front two channels onto the rear.

10/31/2007 6:54:43 PM

yes 7.1 surround like a mofo... cept fronts are bi amped

10/31/2007 7:14:03 PM

What?

10/31/2007 7:38:21 PM

its odd it doesn't just play stereo in two pairs if you set it that way

i don't know why you would want to mirror a stereo source but music is preference based.....

10/31/2007 8:22:21 PM

mine i meant 7 channel stereo is what my receivers cost

10/31/2007 10:18:25 PM

update....

so i found a good deal on a used polk center cs250 and a pair of polk floorstanding that i'm now using as my surround...the mids on these are actually more powerful than my current front L/Rs albeit they are a much older model.

so i popped in my cd and cranked it to 5.1 channel stereo and blasted away....couldn't be any happier with my setup now....haven't tried surround sound...got too consumed with the music...my ears are ringing now

so my person opinion would be....if you want to just blast music loud, get floorstanding and use them as your surrounds...set to 5.1 channel stereo.....also, as others have said, it is ideal to get matching speakers, esp all of the same brand

11/1/2007 1:59:36 AM

Quote :

"mine i meant 7 channel stereo is what my receivers cost"

What? I'm not trolling here, I can't fucking figure out what you are trying to say.

Simply asked

Does your receiver output the same amount of power when switched to 5.1 or 7.1 mode to the rear surrounds as it does to the front mains as it would in normal 2 channel stereo mode when the source it is receiving is 2 channel 44khz audio (ie, from a CD), either via spdif or rca?

On my older 5.1 reciever, when switching to 5.1 mode, it seemed like it was doing some sort of processing where frequencies above some point went to the center channel, frequencies below that point went to mains in some sort of reduced output (ie, not loud)...perhaps the lows were being sent to the sub line (which I didn't have a sub hooked to it), and the rear channels were receiving some sort of compressed and output limited version of these 2 channels

in short

it sounded like complete and utter shit, and I can't imagine that much output was getting to the rears.

Having said that, I can imagine a newer system having a 5 or 7.1 mode where it drives the front mains as they are, drives the rear surrounds the same with the same amount of power, and perhaps uses the center channel for frequency ranges for the vocals.





HAVE ANY OF YOU TRIED THIS

KNOW OF THIS

VERIFIED THIS

ETC?

11/1/2007 2:51:22 PM

Quote :

"Does your receiver output the same amount of power when switched to 5.1 or 7.1 mode to the rear surrounds as it does to the "

i think this was my original question all along....and i think the experts here have attempted to answer it...

but like i said, based on my own novice ear, and now that i have rear floors setup, when I switch to 5.1 channel stereo, it sounds evenly throughout all speakers, thus appearing to output the same amount of power....however, it most likely won't sound the same if you use regular surround speakers as your rears.....due to obvious reasons..

thus why i was leaning towards getting floors for my rears...and i did...and i am happy now with the result

Quote :

"Having said that, I can imagine a newer system having a 5 or 7.1 mode where it drives the front mains as they are, drives the rear surrounds the same with the same amount of power, and perhaps uses the center channel for frequency ranges for the vocals."

with my new setup to my naked ear, i would say YES.....my receiver isn't that new though, Onkyo TX-DS676

so i think the power output is even...but your 4 speakers themselves need to be even as well, weaker surrounds will sound weaker naturally


but what do i know...i'm just a novice

[Edited on November 1, 2007 at 3:19 PM. Reason : k]

11/1/2007 3:16:46 PM

^^ play nice if your not trolling...

not all recievers offer 5.1/7.1 stereo mode. typically lower cost recievers don't... All yamaha surround recievers with dolby digital offer full stereo...

there are recievers out there, expecially ones that come in box sets that can't really produce the power necessary to drive all channels in stereo...

so I can vouch for Yamaha's being able to and she seems to be able to vouch for Onkyo being able to... I know the panasonic my old roomate had wouldn't... but it'll either be a surround setting or it won't be.

and yes, it's just: left signal goes to left speakers, right signal goes to right speakers, center gets a mix (but not doubled) and the surround gets a Low pass version of the signal... On my yamaha the sub is significantly louder in 5.1stereo than it is when it's getting an LFE signal...

11/1/2007 3:34:20 PM

hahah sometimes my mind is thinking 2 different thoughts at once and the come out mixed

mine has 7.1 stereo (but its only 5.1 really cause the fronts are bi-amped) and in this mode the only processing it does is to the signal going to the center, it compares the left and right signals and what matches between them it sends to the center.
i have no idea what i was thinking about that made me bring up cost, probably something to do with an estimate @ work or something.


And my amp is ass backwords, my sub will blow up the place with an lfe signal but doesn't do much in music unless its synthesized low frequencies like rap & techno have.

I wish my amp would have a switch to ignore location settings for the speakers (probably the reason your rears are quieter than the front is they are meant to be closer to your head. if i remove the -2 db offset mine self programed with the room mic they're every bit as loud as the fronts.


[Edited on November 1, 2007 at 3:55 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on November 1, 2007 at 3:56 PM. Reason : .]

11/1/2007 3:50:29 PM

Quote :

"Do your receivers have some sort of mode (call it 5.1 'stereo') where it drives the rear channels with the same amount of power that it drives the front two? I have a pretty old DD/DTS 5.1 receiver and when I played a stereo track in 5.1 mode, it definitely seemed like the rear channels were some "sampling" and possibly frequency banded version of the main track. But I can definitely see a newer receiver having a specific mode where you can replicate the front two channels onto the rear."

I know that my Harmon Kardon has a setting for the {front, rear, mid, center} speaker(s) to be {none, small, large}... none just doesn't send any signal to them. large will send the full signal, and small will just send high/mid frequencies. It has nothing to do with power.

Quote :

"i think thats what i was getting at. using 5.1 MAKES the back sound weaker because thats what its supposed to be. 5.1 is for sitting facing the tv, using the back (surround) speakers as the ambient 'surround' sounds coming from the scene. using X.X (5.1 in your case) channel stereo would fix that, and in this case it wouldnt matter where the speakers were placed (since they all play the same thing) and yes it might be more beneficial to have identical speakers - like a club/venue - good for filling a room with loud sound, but not made for watching tv/movies."

most of the sound from tv/movies comes out of the center speaker, not the front-right and front-left.

11/1/2007 4:27:06 PM

most of the voices... tracks are still typically mixed to where big sounds.. go to right and left because most center channels can't handle much bass at all.

my fave thing about my amp is you can tune it or it will tune its self based on your speaker sizes... ( you can tell it or it can measure from inductance i presume cause you don't even have to have the mic plugged in.)

also many recievers have built in crossovers so it will not send big sounds to the rears, and others don't even have the same size amps for the rears.

11/1/2007 4:38:36 PM

^^yeah, my pioneer has the same thing for adjusting for speaker size. and yes the whole thing about even output is what i meant all along, although i do know that some receivers ive seen dont offer that. mine had 7ch stereo but i had two speakers on channel 6 and 7 in different zones (next room) so they worked independently as a pair but playing the same input - just good for parties. im not sure if it was taken wrong but when i said "matched" speakers i didnt mean the same or equal power handling i meant ACTUALLY matched like (i know polk does it) these floor speakers have the same wave balance as these surrounds and this center, etc. also i hope no one thinks im talking about the tiny satellites when i said surrounds earlier - those would definitely be a bad match for floor speakers.

11/2/2007 3:35:49 PM

As long as the ohms are correct, you can do whatever.

But don't listen to CDs in 5.1 CDs are recorded in stereo, and intended to be listened as such.

11/3/2007 11:36:41 AM