what are the pro's and con's?

10/18/2007 2:28:47 PM

higher stability & pension vs. higher risk & earnings

That's a very broad summary because there are other factors involved that depend on the field of work.

In the end it will come down to what you value more.

10/18/2007 2:33:13 PM

from my understanding

There is more money in the private sector (true for the most part)

Better benefits(especially medical) and job security with the government

10/18/2007 2:35:34 PM

goof off
job security
pension
lower pay


work hard
market risk
401k
higher pay


(in general)

10/18/2007 2:39:17 PM

private- pro's more $$$$
less bureaucracy
easier to move up
likely better corporate culture
con's more likely effected by market fluctuations


Government- pro's -more job security
- greater retirement benefits if you stick it out
- network opportunity with big gov bigshots possible
con's - More difficult to move up
- More rigid work environment gotta deal w/ more procedural bullshit
- Would you really want to work for the gov??
- pay likely capped out due to specific pay grades w/o much HR or managerial input that would effect raises in the private sector
- Can't talk bad about George W as office talk

10/18/2007 2:44:36 PM

I pondered this too, I chose government work. Since I started working at NASA, they have really taken good care of me, even though I am the complete lowest on the totem pole. It's pretty much impossible to get fired (Unless you do something stupid like look at kiddie porn at work), the benefits are awesome, and I have guaranteed promotions. The job security is the main thing that appealed to me though.

10/18/2007 2:46:47 PM

job security vs higher pay

10/18/2007 3:30:47 PM

I took government...

over a 4k per year higher salary...

My rationale:

1) I felt more comfortable with the government group.
2) The commute is less difficult.
3) Pension w/ 401k option.
4) Better (read: free) health insurance options.
5) Own office.
6) Career banding in future will move to more of a private-sector way of giving pay raises.
7) New office and building within 2 years.
8) Job security.

10/18/2007 3:45:53 PM

Quote :

"easier to move up"

this is not true.

like wraith said, engineering positions in the government have pretty much guaranteed promotions which are already laid out for you. you know when you'll get a promotion and to what.

10/18/2007 4:49:02 PM

I work for the state...

Pros:
-retirement
-health benefits
-in the field of forestry gov jobs are much more diverse. i get to fight fire, travel (and get paid well when i do) out of state to fight fire, work on all aspects of forest management, it'd be fairly easy to move to other parts of the state if i wanted to
-job security. they aren't going to fire a chinese guy easily and my job security isn't based on how much money the company makes
-more holidays
-as stupid as it sounds, i feel like i actually do some good for people rather than rip them off by stealing their timber
-i don't have to buy work clothes
-the majority of the public treat you nicely

Cons:
-i'm tied down if we have fires or bad fire weather
-i'm on call on some holidays
-many people think they own you because you work for the gov
-loggers get pissed at you when you tell them to pull piles of debris out of the streams
-the scale of the beaurocracy is amazing...
-paperwork paperwork paperwork
-my work clothes make some people think that i'm a boy scout, game warden, or park ranger. "is it legal to shoot deer in city limits with a bow?" "sure, i don't give a fuck what you shoot, just don't set the woods on fire"
-i have to work with people who act like stereotypical state employees
-i have to listen to other state employees bitch about working for the state. well if it sucks then you're a damn moron for staying...
-i have to wait for the legislature to give me a raise
-i don't get paid overtime, only comp time, except for when i work on large project fires

In all, it's gotta be a decent job or else I would have left.

As far as merit raises go...you can work your entire career in one position and never max out in the pay grade. I know of only one person in the agency who's maxed out and he works so much I'm amazed he's still married. Really the only way to get a raise is to get promoted to a higher position, and that's not guaranteed. There're numerous examples of people getting promotions over others who have been around much longer (though usually it's because the people who've been around a long time are shitty workers).

[Edited on October 18, 2007 at 8:07 PM. Reason : +it's easy to get a holloween costume. I'll be a firefighter this year ]

10/18/2007 7:59:19 PM

I have a gov job, the main attraction is job security and benefits You can always make more money in the private sector. I am making enough to be satisfied right now, and the advancement opportunties are there also. You just have to stay 10 years and you can keep the benefits. Since 60% of the Fed workforce is approaching retirement age, the opportunties are there for quickly advancing your career.

Also, with a gov job, it is easier to advance if you dont have baggage(kids, wife), I have lived in Texas, Florida, Georgia, New York, Ohio, Mississippi, Alabama within the past 3 years. Mobility is a big plus.

[Edited on October 19, 2007 at 12:27 AM. Reason : w]

10/19/2007 12:22:21 AM

Don't fall for the "higher pay" myth about the private sector. I work for the State and pretty much make market salary for a software developer of my experience. Sure some make more, but I NEVER work more than 40 hours in a week. In fact, I can't work more than 40 hours a week. I can't come in on the weekends either. Most of the people I know that are programmers in the private sector work 50 to 55 hours per week (sometimes more). When you look at hourly wage I actually make more. I have zero job stress and I pretty much have to deal crack at work to get fired. The biggest drawback to government is being way behind the times in technology. If you work government for awhile it will seriously hamper your ability to get a decent private sector job in the future because what you work on/with will be outdated.

10/19/2007 12:34:59 AM

retirement after 20 yrs sounds pretty tempting, and i wont have to relocate.

but the pay differential is hard to pass up


btw, im juggling 2 offers in case anyone's wondering

10/19/2007 1:04:48 AM

Wow, just graduated and already thinking about working somewhere for 20 years? That's pretty foolish

10/19/2007 1:15:10 AM

i know right

i graduated in 2004 though

10/19/2007 1:43:34 AM

I have a state job (local school system). It is great for me. Here are my pros and cons:

Pros:
Very stable and secure.
Specific raises and promotion path/payscale.
Great benefits
Guaranteed retirement that will not be gone if a company goes under
40 Hours, and NEVER over that, so I have more time at home with the kids.
Massive fucking vacation/sick time. EVERY holiday off, and no problem to take lots of time off around holidays.

Cons:
Sometimes have to play office politics, but then you do that even in the private sector.
No overtime, even if I wanted it, jut comp. time.

10/19/2007 8:05:05 AM

Quote :

"The biggest drawback to government is being way behind the times in technology. If you work government for awhile it will seriously hamper your ability to get a decent private sector job in the future because what you work on/with will be outdated."

As a programmer, how are you (or how is your agency) behind the times with technology? Is the reason you're "behind the times" because you're working for the state and not the feds? seems like the feds, with their deep pockets, can afford to stay with all the latest technologies etc...and maybe not the state. seems like your point would be more dependent on what organization/group you work for...can't apply it broadly to all govt jobs.

Quote :

"but the pay differential is hard to pass up btw, im juggling 2 offers in case anyone's wondering"

Whats the pay difference between the two offers...maybe compared to your current salary or something.

10/19/2007 9:06:43 AM

it depends on the field. some of the government jobs pay more (depending the on the level local vs. state vs. fed).

10/19/2007 10:06:36 AM

difference in pay is >$10k per yr starting out

i dont really need the money

both jobs are more than i currently make now

i dont want money to be the only reason i choose a job

10/19/2007 11:15:10 AM

shouldnt be the only reason, but it should be a big one.

10/19/2007 12:02:07 PM

damn, that was one of the hardest decisions ive ever had to make

10/19/2007 2:08:54 PM

and the choice was..?

10/19/2007 2:11:34 PM

i went with the money, not the government job

too early in my career to NOT establish a good baseline

10/19/2007 2:16:51 PM

well, only you'll be able to tell if you made the right decision later on

and it's not like you can't jump from one to the other

10/19/2007 3:47:05 PM

Quote :

"Wow, just graduated and already thinking about working somewhere for 20 years? That's pretty foolish"

How is that foolish. I mean if your contemplating taking a job at a bakery and staying there for 20 years, yeah... but if you find a company you like that is stable, you have the opportunity for upward mobility and start at a competitive salary why not think about working their longterm.

10/19/2007 4:16:38 PM

A new graduate does not have the breadth of experience required to competently judge whether a work environment is the best he possibly can do.

You have to be pretty devoid of ambition or risk averse to settle for "good enough."

[Edited on October 19, 2007 at 6:34 PM. Reason : 46]

10/19/2007 6:34:42 PM

Quote :

"Wow, just graduated and already thinking about working somewhere for 20 years? That's pretty foolish"

Well it's not just "somewhere" in my case.
It's not so simple as picking a small shop to spend the rest of my working career.

The NCFS employs 600 people all over the state with positions ranging from
simple smoke chasers
rangers
forest fire equipment operators
service foresters (forest management consulting)
water quality foresters
forest inventory and analysis foresters
pest/disease specialists
law enforcement rangers
tons of supervisors at all levels of the beaurocracy
urban foresters/arborist
pine research specialists
hardwood research specialists
we have a whole pine genetics improvement section with the nursery
we have an aviation branch
hell, we even have 4 full time cooks if you want to go that route.

You can just about go whatever route in forestry you want. In private industry you have far fewer options.
Sell timber, buy timber, manage timber.

10/20/2007 9:30:54 AM

^ are you based out of the downtown office?

I worked there 9 years ago.

10/20/2007 10:55:01 AM

No, I'm in District 5, Rocky Mount.

10/20/2007 1:18:42 PM

- beaurocracy
- inefficiency
- thanks to being politically correct, the people hired and/or promoted aren't always the most qualified
- thanks to the aforementioned politically correctness you can get in trouble for some pretty stupid stuff

Now that isn't to say you won't run into this stuff in the private sector, but if you don't like this stuff you can find a smaller business that wouldn't have it to the degree the government does. No matter what the government job you will have to put up with this crap.

10/20/2007 11:16:40 PM

Quote :

"As a programmer, how are you (or how is your agency) behind the times with technology? Is the reason you're "behind the times" because you're working for the state and not the feds? seems like the feds, with their deep pockets, can afford to stay with all the latest technologies etc...and maybe not the state. seems like your point would be more dependent on what organization/group you work for...can't apply it broadly to all govt jobs."

State government is what I am talking. Federal government is a GREAT work environment. The state is not really held back by budget (at least not the DOT) as much as it is held back back retarded ass politics and poor management. Just to give you an idea... NONE of the programmers have local admin access on their machine, we are using windows 2000 and office '97, we just got upgraded to VS 2005 in the last two months (half the team still has 2003), we don't have source control or versioning of any kind, etc. I will be jumping to a federal job in a couple of years when my wife finishes up her residency. Working for the State is like pulling your hair out.

10/20/2007 11:23:01 PM

^Feds arent the fastest in updating either...lol

Now is a great time to get a Fed job, with the baby boomers retiring..if you can get in and you are any good, you could really advance. Not all the salaries are terrible...when I started I was making a lil more than my private sector job and I have about doubled that in less than 3 years and next year this time I will get about a 10k raise.

10/21/2007 12:29:26 AM