I'm drunk, and the Soap Box is filled with all these boring fights about details.

So here goes...

Men have it worse than women.

Women can be "domestic" professionals and real professionals. Women can be doctors or nurses, dental hygienists or dentists. Women can fight in the armed forces. Women can do jazzercise or become boxers. Girls can do sports or do dance. Girls can be in the science club or the drama club. Girls can play with Leggo's or Barbies. Women can drink appletinis or beers. Etc, etc, etc...

But if a man/boy is a househusband, a nurse, a dental hygienist, takes jazzercise, does dance, plays with Barbies, drinks appletinis, is in the drama club, well, he's a:

pussy
fag
fairy
wimp
mama's boy
pansy
gay
bitch
wussy
etc, etc, etc...

And what do we have for women? Butch, dykes, tomboys...?

So, yeah, women are still locked out of the cool guy exec bathroom and golf clubs. They still get paid less. They still have to do most of the house work.

But at least we can be who we want to be without too much shit...

I have thoughts on causes. But I have to go grab some more beers and get drunker...so for now, your thoughts?

[Edited on October 9, 2007 at 10:08 PM. Reason : ?]

10/9/2007 9:50:46 PM

My thoughts? Stop drinking and posting and thinking you're valid.

10/9/2007 9:53:23 PM

AHA

I am drunk. And I do think my opinions are more important than they actually are (not important at all).

I'm tempted to delete this thread and go hide in a corner.

But let's see if this thread is significantly bald bad enough to get some real flames.

[Edited on October 9, 2007 at 10:03 PM. Reason : bad, not bald. My bald.]

10/9/2007 10:02:25 PM

let me know how you go about deleting threads.

theres a couple that i want to get rid of before i make my run for state congress.

10/9/2007 10:08:30 PM

I can live with my "limited" options for not having to squeeze an 8 pound poop machine out of my dick.

10/9/2007 10:20:41 PM

its great being a woman.

10/9/2007 10:43:02 PM

10/9/2007 10:47:46 PM

Quote :

"I can live with my "limited" options for not having to squeeze an 8 pound poop machine out of my dick."

quote of the year

10/10/2007 12:09:46 AM

I'm a dog nurse

10/10/2007 12:28:53 AM

BridgetSPK prepares to post on T-Dub.

10/10/2007 12:54:11 AM

[Edited on October 10, 2007 at 1:14 AM. Reason : ]

10/10/2007 1:13:46 AM

msb2ncsu
wins

10/10/2007 1:14:08 AM

she's right

women can do just about anything they want

they control reproduction

childbirth keeps getting easier and easier

they suffer almost no stigma from being gay, dumb or unemployed

men all have to be clones of each other

or else they're outcasts

it's fucking stupid

10/10/2007 3:29:02 AM

this thread is completely wrong

Quote :

"And what do we have for women? Butch, dykes, tomboys...?"

That's right, we don't have a word that means "male and disgusting" because every time you describe a woman as having male qualities, it's seen as a good thing (tomboy = spunky girl, very independent, etc). Why, then, is it absolutely demeaning to call a guy any number of names like those you listed (which include female traits) when logically, it shouldn't be? Why aren't female traits desirable in a man? Oh right, 'cause we're the inferior sex. Our language seems to say that it's awful to be seen as associated with the female gender and not the other way around: that's interesting.

If the best women can do is to act like men, that doesn't mean we can do anything and somehow have it easier. It just means that when we try to do masculine things, we're praised for "being more male" (because that has been the better standard all along) instead of derided for "being more female."

Quote :

"But at least we can be who we want to be without too much shit..."

Also untrue.

[Edited on October 10, 2007 at 3:45 AM. Reason : .]

10/10/2007 3:41:44 AM

Quote :

"They still have to do most of the house work."

Last gf I had was a fucking slob. She deserves everything bad that comes with being a bitch.

10/10/2007 3:49:35 AM

periods, tampons, .79 for every dollar, rapes, babies, being labled a whore

Quote :

"And what do we have for women? Butch, dykes, tomboys...?"

what about slut, bitch, whore, skank, etc?

10/10/2007 5:18:40 AM

Quote :

"because every time you describe a woman as having male qualities, it's seen as a good thing (tomboy = spunky girl, very independent, etc)."

Umm, no. Here in reality, a chick labeled as a tomboy is not "seen as a good thing", it just means she isn't very feminine. At most, it has neutral connotation I imagine for most guys.

Quote :

"Why, then, is it absolutely demeaning to call a guy any number of names like those you listed (which include female traits) when logically, it shouldn't be?"

Logically? You can't apply logical in this situation. How about "genetically".

Quote :

"Our language seems to say that it's awful to be seen as associated with the female gender and not the other way around: that's interesting."

Again, try genetics. You can say that we are higher beings and able to overcome our genetics, but that would be a half truth.

Quote :

"If the best women can do is to act like men, that doesn't mean we can do anything and somehow have it easier."

How about the best thing women can do is act like women, perhaps?

10/10/2007 7:17:22 AM

I spent 2 minutes reading this thread....
















I want them back

10/10/2007 12:03:06 PM

i spent like 30 seconds thinking of this response to your 2 minute comment

10/10/2007 12:16:11 PM

Quote :

"Umm, no. Here in reality, a chick labeled as a tomboy is not "seen as a good thing", it just means she isn't very feminine. At most, it has neutral connotation I imagine for most guys."

It's not a BAD thing, though. You aren't calling her disgusting by having male traits. It's not anything like calling a man a "pussy" or "effeminate."

Quote :

"Again, try genetics. You can say that we are higher beings and able to overcome our genetics, but that would be a half truth."

Regardless of genetics, there's a fundamental problem with our rhetoric and the values we prize. Calling a woman "masculine" has better connotations than calling a man "effeminate."

Quote :

"How about the best thing women can do is act like women, perhaps?"

I don't know how you missed my entire argument, but you did.

10/10/2007 12:53:40 PM

10/10/2007 1:11:53 PM

Quote :

"every time you describe a woman as having male qualities, it's seen as a good thing "

this is 100% subjective

clearly there are positive "male qualities" that a female can have...for example, no man in their right mind wouldnt want their woman to watch football with them, be able to get ready to go out for a night on the town in less than 2 hours, etc

however nobody likes a manface or a mustache or whatever, or a chick whose idea of dressing up sexy is wearing pants and shit...unless they're those stretch pants they wear sometimes to work out in course manly chicks would wear some baggy ass sweats or something

[Edited on October 10, 2007 at 1:16 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2007 1:15:39 PM

.....because they marry women.

10/10/2007 1:26:35 PM

ibt move

10/10/2007 1:55:28 PM

a chick with male qualities is completely and irrefutably disgusting.

examples:

overly muscular women (i.e. the infamous trapezius women)
women with goatees
women who always try to be "one of the guys" but won't put out.
women with beer guts
women who dress like men
women with crew cuts
women who scratch their balls

10/10/2007 1:58:16 PM

^,^^^^ I wasn't talking about PHYSICALLY. I'm talking about a woman who acts like a guy. Thinking of a girl as a tomboy generally means she's spunky and a go-getter, etc. And calling a woman masculine in that way implies that she's more logical, too.

Calling a guy effeminate is much more insulting: it implies he's irrational and concerned with trivial things, etc.

[Edited on October 10, 2007 at 5:47 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2007 5:41:42 PM

If you keep narrowing "what you meant" it will look like you're never wrong, or, until you run out of anything to actually say.

10/10/2007 6:09:28 PM

I never meant physically.

I'm not wrong about this: you guys are misinterpreting me.

The original point was about calling a dude a wuss for how he acted, not about saying that he looked girly 'cause he was wearing a skirt.

So similarly, I wasn't talking about a girl being "masculine" in the sense that she has a moustache or a beer gut.

I'm agreeing with Bridget that certain jobs have stigmas when associated with men, but that it's because we call them "effeminate" that we're actually demeaning women at the same time. Why should a guy be afraid of being called "effeminate" at all, really? It just means he's like a woman... but being "like a woman" is still not something guys want to be because the rhetoric implies that "being like a woman" is a derogatory thing. It really shouldn't matter, just as a woman acting like a guy shouldn't be seen as a good or bad thing, but it isn't the same: women who act "like men" are considered to have more positive behavior.

So our use of these terms still shows the feminine as something lesser than the masculine.

It shouldn't be that way, but there it is.

[Edited on October 10, 2007 at 6:23 PM. Reason : .]

10/10/2007 6:10:55 PM

Look you stubborn arrogant cunt

Quote :

"women who act "like men" are considered to have more positive behavior."

WHO THE FUCK CONSIDERS THIS? YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT TOMBOYS LIKE THEY ARE SOME COOL THING

IM A FUCKING MALE

AND IM HERE TO TELL YOU

THERE IS NOTHING COOL ABOUT A MASCULINE BITCH

NOT ONE IOTA

YOUR POINT IS DEAD

NO ONE IS MISINTERPRETING IT

STOP POSTING

10/10/2007 7:33:52 PM

you're so grumpy

and you still don't get it

I'm talking about the rhetoric used in describing what gender people act like, and the implications of the rhetoric, regardless of what it ACTUALLY should mean, to YOU or ANYONE.

[Edited on October 10, 2007 at 8:27 PM. Reason : Why don't you stop posting, if you think you're just not getting through to me? ]

10/10/2007 8:19:26 PM

Quote :

"Why should a guy be afraid of being called "effeminate" at all, really? "

because I value my identity as a male.

Quote :

" women who act "like men" are considered to have more positive behavior."

I still don't see how this is anywhere near true.

10/10/2007 9:02:58 PM

Quote :

"you're so grumpy and you still don't get it I'm talking about the rhetoric used in describing what gender people act like, and the implications of the rhetoric, regardless of what it ACTUALLY should mean, to YOU or ANYONE. [Edited on October 10, 2007 at 8:27 PM. Reason : Why don't you stop posting, if you think you're just not getting through to me? ]"

Grumpy? Shut the fuck up.

I don't get it?

I already told you multiple times you're a stupid arrogant cunt. Hello, you have this idea that just because you pwn some fools in Chit Chat, that you are somehow entitled to be valid around here. Shit doesn't work that way you crumb.

What the fuck does "talking about the rhetoric" even mean? That's not even what the debate is about.

10/10/2007 9:30:46 PM

Quote :

"WHO THE FUCK CONSIDERS THIS? YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT TOMBOYS LIKE THEY ARE SOME COOL THING IM A FUCKING MALE AND IM HERE TO TELL YOU THERE IS NOTHING COOL ABOUT A MASCULINE BITCH NOT ONE IOTA YOUR POINT IS DEAD NO ONE IS MISINTERPRETING IT STOP POSTING"

l o motherfucking l

10/10/2007 9:43:58 PM

Quote :

"I already told you multiple times you're a stupid arrogant cunt. Hello, you have this idea that just because you pwn some fools in Chit Chat, that you are somehow entitled to be valid around here. Shit doesn't work that way you crumb."

Hey, I'm sorry you think that your attempts at namecalling can make anyone back down from a conversation. It's tragic, really. I'm sorry you feel so threatened.

Quote :

"What the fuck does "talking about the rhetoric" even mean? That's not even what the debate is about."

The language used in this debate IS under discussion, as Bridget brought up in the first post (e.g. guys being called pussies or wimps for doing "girly" jobs, etc), and that's what I mean by "rhetoric."

The debate started by Bridget isn't being continued by anyone at all. If you want it to be, I'll just state that men don't have it "so much worse" than women.

Quote :

"because I value my identity as a male"

But why does it matter so much that you're male? Is one gender more preferable, or is it just because you have a certain anatomy that you feel you should be defined that way?

I mean, I don't like being called "girly," and I am a girl.

Quote :

"I still don't see how this is anywhere near true."

It's not actually true, it's the way they're described. I'm probably just explaining this badly. The other day I was having a conversation and my professor mentioned that the women he liked best acted "like men," though he didn't know another way to say it.

10/10/2007 9:56:33 PM

^ Slow your roll, and know your role, girl.

10/10/2007 11:28:37 PM

I like my women confident and ambitious. Not submissive and superficial. I think "girly" often means the latter, and "manly" the former, but I don't know if that's what StillFuschia is going for.

10/10/2007 11:42:29 PM

Yeah I would imagine that the girl wears the pants in your relationships.

10/10/2007 11:55:37 PM

Usually I don't believe in Chance, but here I'm going to make an exception

10/11/2007 12:27:19 AM

^ Yes, his level of contempt for StillFuchsia is intoxicating--I find myself unable to look away.

10/11/2007 12:40:44 AM

10/11/2007 3:09:14 AM

wtf are you people still going on about?


the so-called "masculine bitch"... at least the one that is aggressive and self-confident, is the one that is going to make the money and gain the power in the business world. and its very attractive to a lot of men... at least men who have some self-confidence of their own. the weak scared men, talk shit and try and drag her down by making disparaging remarks about her sexuality.


or are you talking about the scowling ugly gal, with the bowl haircut, who is built like a tank and wears combat boots and flannel shirts? well, yeah, she's not really going to have it very easy. but neither is the mincing fellow who wiggles his hips and talks with a lithp. they're equally ostracised.


IMO women have it tough for a number of reasons, and men have it tougher for some others. the balance overall still favors men, though. oral contraceptives and bra burning may have helped a bit, but it's still a man's world.

10/11/2007 3:19:55 AM

this argument got really stupid. Why can't girls just act like girls and guys just act like guys and everyone be happy with that? You guys pretty much have strayed far from the original post.

Oh and a woman can be independent and still be quite feminine.

Quote :

"If the best women can do is to act like men, that doesn't mean we can do anything and somehow have it easier. It just means that when we try to do masculine things, we're praised for "being more male""

women aren't supposed to "be more male." We are supposed to be female.

10/11/2007 10:09:01 AM

Women who try to act like men end up coming off as stiff Robots.

See: Hillary Clinton.

Men have plenty of examples of testosterone excess to use as role models while women don't really have anybody that pulls off power and sensuality.

Not to mention, if scrubbing shit was my life long dream, then I'd scrub shit and not give a damn what anyone else thought. I'd consider effeminate any man that let the opinions of others negatively influence his own likes and dislikes.

10/11/2007 10:42:57 AM

Quote :

"women don't really have anybody that pulls off power and sensuality"

10/11/2007 10:50:20 AM

it's great being a woman.

10/11/2007 12:56:53 PM

Quote :

"women aren't supposed to "be more male." We are supposed to be female."

I never suggested that at all.

But the fact that you'd subscribe what you're "supposed to be" by the fact that you have a vagina is telling. It shouldn't really matter in your personality, it's just what you've got going on downstairs, regardless of gender roles.

You're all confused about what I mean. I give up.

10/11/2007 1:09:04 PM

btw yulia is a milf in that pic

Quote :

"StillFuchsia"

I'd be careful guys StillFuchsia as crossed the forbidden gap by being a Chem Engineerin/English major. She is all knowing.

[Edited on October 11, 2007 at 1:18 PM. Reason : l]

10/11/2007 1:15:11 PM

I am not, and nor have I ever claimed such.

Grow up.

10/11/2007 1:45:21 PM

I can pee standing up. I'm happy.

10/11/2007 2:40:39 PM

Quote :

"But the fact that you'd subscribe what you're "supposed to be" by the fact that you have a vagina is telling. It shouldn't really matter in your personality, it's just what you've got going on downstairs, regardless of gender roles."

telling of what? I didn't subscribe to any idea, I'm just saying people should be what they are. Guys who try to act female are annoying. Gender roles don't matter anyways, they have changed over time and even in different cultures.

10/11/2007 3:23:46 PM