Hey guys I was hoping some of you could help me out. I am looking to buy a hot tub that is 220v. Is there a problem running a 220v extension cord from where a stove is intended to be hooked up? What about converter options I am looking into. Does anyone have any suggestions? thanks a lot

7/23/2007 10:15:04 PM

If the jack for the stove is 220V then it will be fine if you can get it wired up correctly. I seriously doubt a hot-tub is going to draw more current than an electric range.

7/23/2007 10:41:46 PM

^ Why would you doubt that?

But, why not just get an outlet properly installed?

I'm sure an extension cord, of sufficient gauge, would work fine in the meanwhile though, but I can't say for certain.

7/23/2007 10:51:42 PM

^^ Shows you have no clue about either a range or spa current consumption.

7/23/2007 10:55:51 PM

Know what you're getting into.

My folks just snagged a $5k tub from someone locally for $1,200. And then spent some $300 in wiring as they tried for weeks to finally get the stupid thing wired up / grounded correctly. These things are NOT plug 'n play in any means.

Prepare to be frustrated and spend a lot getting it going (dedicated grounds, certain gauge wires, etc. etc.)

7/23/2007 11:22:55 PM

Sounds like normal wiring to me

7/23/2007 11:30:18 PM

hire an electrician. do not try to hack a 220V connection to a tub of water youre going to have people sit in.

YOU FUCKING IDIOT.

7/24/2007 12:56:03 AM

^ Agreed on the advice. Many people try to do wiring themselves and screw something up. My old house in upstate new-york was full of DIY wiring from the previous owner. Last time my dad tried to replace an outlet he almost died because the previous owner had run a hot wire to the faceplate screw (and this was in the bathroom around water too.) Get an insured licensed electrician if you're not entirely sure what you're doing and especially if water is involved.

7/24/2007 8:57:01 AM

I appreciate the words of caution but, I personally dont forsee a problem running it to a stove plug. Does anyone have a reson why that wouldnt work assuming I use a large gauge wire? Does anyone know if one of those step up voltage converters would work? thanks

7/24/2007 10:31:32 AM

Quote :

"I personally dont forsee a problem "

as an electrical engineer who used to be a journeyman commercial/industrial electrician...

i forsee the strong possibility of someone getting killed.

now call someone who knows what the fuck they are doing.




[Edited on July 24, 2007 at 11:16 AM. Reason : ]

7/24/2007 11:15:32 AM

haha will you elaborate on what problem you forsee?

7/24/2007 11:48:17 AM

i see dead people

7/24/2007 12:11:05 PM

Quote :

" Does anyone have a reson why that wouldnt work assuming I use a large gauge wire? "

Because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

And a step up transformer wouldn't work, because they can't handle anywhere near the power that you'd need for the hot tub.

7/24/2007 12:47:53 PM

thank you for the information on the transformer but, what would be the problem running a 15ft wire to a stove outlet assuming the circuit is rated for the proper amperage?

7/24/2007 12:56:56 PM

look

just go ahead and do whatever it is you were planning to do

you are going to do it anyway regardless of what anyone here says

just be sure to make a thread about what happens

(hint: the book on the electric code would definitely be beneficial to you)

7/24/2007 1:14:32 PM

use the biggest gauge you can get.

like, AWG 36. Those wires are huge.

7/24/2007 1:23:27 PM

im thinking 8awg should be more than enough

7/24/2007 1:36:26 PM

i guess im fairly qualified to help you out, so here is my advice. hire a damn electrician. this is not a difficult job by any means, but you need to know what you are doing.

7/24/2007 1:42:39 PM

Regardless of how competent you think you are, it's always good to get an electrician to do something like this. Depending on your homeowner's insurance, if something you did shorts and causes a fire you may not be covered since you performed unlicensed electrical work. Also, if it does hurt someone and an electrician installed it in a faulty way, you should be alright. If it hurts someone and YOU installed faulty wiring then you are absolutely fucked up the ass.

Since you probably don't care what we have to say about all that->

1.) Use the thickest (LOWEST) gage wiring you can.
2.) Do not have any discontinuity in the power cables anywhere near the hottub or water.
3.) If possible use a SINGLE power cable. The points where extension cables join are the most likely places for a fire or short to happen.

Quote :

"like, AWG 36. Those wires are huge"

Haha, don't fuck with him like that. AWG 36 is .005 in diameter vs .1285 in for AWG 8.

[Edited on July 24, 2007 at 1:44 PM. Reason : ]

7/24/2007 1:43:00 PM

whats the breaker rated at for the stove, im not sure your idea is even a possibility.

also, i use future connections for most of my pump motor wiring needs

7/24/2007 1:48:04 PM

thanks a lot guth and Charybdisjim, the stove circuit the stove is on is rated for 100 amps and the person I bought the tub from had it on its own circuit rated at 50 amps so I think im fine there. Im not to worried about someone telling me to use 36awg wire. I was tempted to make a dick joke when he said 36 was huge but i decided to ignore it.

7/24/2007 2:14:49 PM

what size motor does it have? 1hp, 1.5hp? im assuming single phase?

7/24/2007 2:20:57 PM

i see dead people

7/24/2007 3:59:31 PM

since the circuit is rated for 100amp, i'd be safe and use 6awg, less voltage drop for 10-15ft at 100A, even if it doesn't reach the max., use 4awg for 15'+, 8awg for <10', i think your worst case scenario is 60A for a hot tub so you should be ok with 8awg now that i think about it.

one big thing is that the stove outlet probably isn't a GFC outlet, which would be a HUGE requirement for anything near/around water, much less a hot tub

also as many other's have pointed out, per any fire/accident/injury that results from this, the benefit of having an insured/bonded electrician do the work is common sense.

NEC (national electrical code) also requires a manual disconnect within 5ft. of the hot tub

so if you do it yourself, either do it right, or hope your home never gets inspected... if it doesn't meet code you can kiss any insurance goodbye as well.

[Edited on July 24, 2007 at 4:17 PM. Reason : ,]

7/24/2007 4:07:42 PM

ummm 100A seems like a lot... Hopefully your just spouting stuff off...

2HP(using 760W) @ 220Vac ~7Amps (14Amps @120V)

100A@220v =22kW or ~29HP

7/24/2007 4:18:50 PM

Then there is that pesky heater element that hot tubs have in them to heat them. I have no clue why they need a heatingelement in a hot tub.

7/24/2007 4:34:55 PM

^^^ yeah, needs GFC and safety switch. and ive never paid attention to how spas are bonded, but its needs to be bonded.

^^ just the heater is probably pulling about 25 amps

[Edited on July 24, 2007 at 5:14 PM. Reason : but yes, 100A is more than it will take]

7/24/2007 5:14:31 PM

Ah, yes, heating element... 4.5 KW/240 Volts was the first 19gallon water heater I found via google... so thats pretty beefy...

maybe it would need 100A for margin

7/24/2007 5:33:44 PM

you need a hell of a lot more power to start a motor than you need to run a motor

7/24/2007 7:36:01 PM

^

7/24/2007 7:37:32 PM

i was merely talking about the max the circuit could handle, i believe most hot tubs are between 40-50A with a couple at 60A

7/24/2007 7:56:51 PM

be safe

7/24/2007 9:05:41 PM

^ says the guy with only one fucking arm. LISTEN TO HIM!

7/25/2007 2:47:07 AM

Quote :

"I appreciate the words of caution but, I personally dont forsee a problem"

don't be an ass, unless you want people on here talking about how great of a person you were/weren't. Get a professional to hook it up b/c i would rather not link this post to some

DARWINISM THREAD

b/c with that attitude that is where you are headed

7/25/2007 4:30:42 AM

Quote :

"^ says the guy with only one fucking arm. LISTEN TO HIM!"

hah

i just know I've been zapped by 120 V and even 220 V a few more times than I would have liked, and know that adding water and people into the equation spells disaster if not handled properly.

If you're destined to do it yourself, don't they have books on how to do these DIY projects at Home Depot and Lowes? Maybe check them out in addition to the NEC to see what all needs to be done safely and in compliance with the regulations and codes.

7/25/2007 7:19:23 AM

Just let this guy electrocute himself in peace, people.

7/25/2007 8:04:28 AM

moron:

Quote :

"^ Why would you doubt that?"

Because I seriously doubt a hot-tub draws as much current as an electric range. Oddly enough, it turns out I was right. His hot-tub worked fine on a breaker rated at only 50A while the breaker for his electric stove was 100A. So moron, Chance, others, it seems to be you that know nothing about this subject.

Remember how much heat your stove produces. In six minutes it can boil four pots of water AND heat 100lbs of metal to 400 degrees.

Now, I assumed you were not installing the outlet, just using an existing outlet that was installed by a certified electrician, so there is no problem there. To make sure you could borrow an outlet tester, or just borrow a friends multimeter.

When you first turn it on monitor the temperature of the extension cord; it will probably get warm, but if it ever gets hot then you need to replace it with a lower gauge.

But other than that, there is nothing dangerous here beyond the usual hot-tub dangers. Insulation breaks down over time, so make sure to test the ground-sense breaker from time to time. When the insulation fails, that breaker will be the only thing keeping you alive.

[Edited on July 25, 2007 at 10:03 AM. Reason : .,.]

7/25/2007 10:00:48 AM

does the stove have two 110v a ground and neutral? what about the hot tub? does it have a neutral as well?

IIRC most electric ranges only have 2x110v and a ground. while your dryer, for example, has 2x110v 1-neutral and 1-ground. (maybe not now that I think about it, a modern stove would require the neutral to run 110v electronics inside, clock etc...)

-----

I would also include an additional breaker at the hot tub with the recommended 50A, I don't think you want to allow it to draw 90A. if it does, something is wrong and the breaker should flip.


[Edited on July 25, 2007 at 10:28 AM. Reason : .]

7/25/2007 10:17:37 AM

^^ The usability of the outlet shouldn't have been a concern, only the liability that doing something like this entails - specifically since it seems like he'd be using some kind of extension or home-made cabling.

7/25/2007 10:55:22 AM

^^^ LoneSnark, you're not only a stupid motherfucker, you're dangerous -- and your ignorance-fueled arrogance can get someone killed.

don't anyone listen to a thing this idiot says about anything electric -- please.




[Edited on July 25, 2007 at 4:07 PM. Reason : ]

7/25/2007 4:07:05 PM

^ I would just like to throw this in...

If you find a typical stove on GE's website the power rating is:
http://products.geappliances.com/ApplProducts/Dispatcher?REQUEST=SPECPAGE&SKU=JS968SKSS&SITEID=GEA&TABID=2
Bake Wattage 2700W
Broiler Wattage 3600W
Convection Wattage 2500W
Amp Rating at 208V 40A
Amp Rating at 240V 40A

If you add those up, for everything to be on, that's about 9000w power draw.

If you look here:
http://www.sundancespas.com/680Series/HawthorneSpecs.php
Electrical Requirements:

North America (60 Hz): 240 VAC @ 40A, 50A or 60A

The power draw is pretty much the same, depending on your gettings (I assume that's what the different amps are for).

So, on average, a stove would be using less power (since most people don't use all 3 parts all the time) than a hot tub run for the equivalent time. And a hot tub can be pulling more amps than a stove too, on the medium and higher settings.

7/26/2007 4:39:38 PM

Quote :

"So, on average, a stove would be using less power (since most people don't use all 3 parts all the time)"

The outlet should still be able to support operation of the entire stove at once, regardless of how often this actually occurs.

7/26/2007 5:02:38 PM

^ yes.

7/26/2007 5:57:00 PM

get a gas one . "Certified electricians" are a bunch of pinko commy state certified morons.

7/26/2007 9:47:33 PM

So is sharkwing1 still alive or what?

8/7/2007 8:10:26 PM

guess so, he's moved from electrical sharkwing wiring 101 to going into history without papers

8/7/2007 9:23:03 PM