Quote :

""Do not assume that the diesel engine is a panacea and is going to make everyone get to a fleet of 36 miles per gallon," Lutz says in the video. The popular notion Lutz is trying to refute is that diesel vehicles, already popular in Europe, offer the fuel economy benefits of gasoline/electric hybrid vehicles but without all the added cost and complexity of gasoline/electric hybrid technology. The problem, according to Lutz, is that to make diesel engines work for the American passenger vehicle market, which is very different from Europe's, will require adding technology. That means adding complexity and cost, just like hybrids. What's worse, along with adding cost and complexity, is that these technologies will also reduce a diesel vehicle's fuel economy, taking away the very reason for turning to diesel in the first place, said Lutz."

http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/13/autos/lutz_on_diesel/

7/17/2007 9:09:53 AM

retarded

7/17/2007 9:39:37 AM

You have to look at it from Lutz's point of view.

From his perspective, the diesel engine must be a load of crap, and it's an understandable perspective, since the only diesels he's probably aware of are the ones made by his own company.

7/17/2007 10:01:35 AM

^ indeed.

It is no wonder GM is falling behind.

7/17/2007 12:18:28 PM

diesels get better gas mileage for 1 reason

Quote :

"When burnt, diesel typically releases about 40.9 megajoules (MJ) per liter, whereas gasoline releases 34.8 MJ/L, about 15% less."

bob lutz is a fuck-tard.

7/17/2007 12:44:32 PM

they also relaese more particulates and NOx due to higher combustion temp and pressure

7/17/2007 12:47:53 PM

No he's actually right.

Diesel standards in the US were drastically changed to the point that Euro-spec models have to go through an extensive redesign.

Doesn't change the fact that his company makes boring, unappealing cars.

7/17/2007 1:15:31 PM

^^that can now be trapped thanks to current technology.

^wasn't that just changed within the last year?

If Mercedes-Benz can do it with their Bluetec system then GM has no excuse whatsoever.

MB E-class gets over 35mpg with their diesel V6.

7/17/2007 1:31:58 PM

You just compared a MB E-class to a GM.

7/17/2007 1:44:14 PM

Bluetec doesn't meet California emissions standards. Neither does any other diesel currently on the market.

Particulates can be trapped and avoided with ultra-low sulfur diesel, but the higher combustion temperatures of diesel engines make NOx emissions almost unavoidable. You can either relax standards, or you can take a stringent approach like some US states.

Europeans just choose to ignore or downplay the harmful effects of NOx because they love their diesels.




[Edited on July 17, 2007 at 1:54 PM. Reason : 2]

7/17/2007 1:46:31 PM

Wow.

GM purchases half of Italian diesel maker VM Motori

Quote :

"General Motors has purchased 50 percent of VM Motori from Penske Corp., who will continue to own the other half of the Italian diesel manufacturer. According to Bob Lutz, GM is planning to use VM Motori's all-new 2.9 liter V6 diesel engine in European versions of the Cadillac CTS in 2009 with North American sales shortly thereafter. The move provides GM with a firm grip on the world diesel market. Previously, GM had used VM Motori for diesel engines in the European Opel/Vauxhall Frontera SUV, which was essentially a re-badged Isuzu Rodeo. Until recently, DaimlerChrysler had a 49 percent share of VM Motori; Penske bought that back earlier this year and sold it, as well as an additional 1 percent, to GM. DaimlerChrysler's interest in VM Motori had been in diesel engines for the Jeep Liberty/Cherokee SUV. GM is expecting a significant world-wide growth in emissions-friendly diesel engines. In the early part of the decade, GM partnered with Fiat Auto to create diesel engines. Despite the demise of various GM-Fiat alliances, GM was able to retain half-intellectual property of 1.3 and 1.9-liter engines and half of a Polish plant, which produces the 1.3-liter diesels. GM's share in VM Motori will provide access to - and development of - larger diesels aimed at the North American, Chinese, Indian and Russian markets. VM Motori is based in Cento, Italy, in the Reggio Emilia region - also home to Ferrari and Maserati, among others. Among other diesels, VM produces the engines for London-style taxicabs."

[Edited on July 17, 2007 at 5:49 PM. Reason : http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-purchases-half-of-italian-diesel-maker-vm-motori.html]

7/17/2007 5:48:46 PM

Quote :

"Bluetec doesn't meet California emissions standards. Neither does any other diesel currently on the market. "

I read that the new VW tdi and benz we're going to be released in Cali. did they change their tree hugging minds? Anways the new diesel jeep GC gets 33mpg/450miles per tank... a step in the right direction. and if the car companies market the diesel w/ lower hp we can save even more fuel... instead of a performance option like w/ f250s and such. of and what we really need in a diesel electric hybrid. idle that damn thing all day, even if your not in it... let it charge the battery while your a work. you can idle forever... big rigs use about 1gal per hour, imagine a little 3 or 4 cylinder sippin

7/17/2007 6:23:07 PM

The bluetec engines will need additives in order to meet California emissions standards.

Quote :

"Mercedes-Benz became the first company to make the newest generation of clean diesel fuel. The German luxury brand calls its system Bluetec. It's only been on sale in 45 states this year, but it is modifying the system for all states for 2008. The E320 Bluetec achieves fuel economy of 30-35 mpg in most driving conditions -- impressive for a luxury sedan. To meet the more stringent emissions standards in California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, and Vermont, the 2008 E320 will rely on an additive called AdBlue. The tank of AdBlue will have to be replenished when a dashboard warning light is illuminated. "

Adblue is basically urea injected into the exaust. Maybe you could just piss into the Adblue tank to save money.

Quote :

"what we really need in a diesel electric hybrid. idle that damn thing all day, even if your not in it... let it charge the battery while your a work. you can idle forever... big rigs use about 1gal per hour, imagine a little 3 or 4 cylinder sippin"

GM's Volt concept looks like the way to go, IMO. It uses an electric motor as it's sole means of propulsion, eliminating the need for a tranny, crankshaft, and other drivetrain components used to channel mechanical energy directly to the wheels. Instead it uses a diesel generator to charge the battery and extend it's range to something like 600 miles, since batteries alone cannot hold that much energy. A lot of trolleys and trains use this powertrain setup, with a variable-speed electric motor and a constant-speed diesel motor charging the system. It's more efficient at lower revs and rapid start-stop applications, however. If this kind of hybrid is gonna be featured in automobiles, I would expect it to start out in heavy trucks and vans.

[Edited on July 17, 2007 at 7:08 PM. Reason : 2]

7/17/2007 6:55:59 PM

trains use that step up but they dont have batteries

i would imagine that banks of lead acid batteries in trains would be cool if they could be charged when the train was slowing down and discharged when it was starting

most likely cost prohibitive and battery technology isnt there for rapid charging

[Edited on July 17, 2007 at 7:27 PM. Reason : 

7/17/2007 7:26:37 PM

Supercapacitors would do a lot better job than batteries in that application because they can be rapidly charged and discharged.

Their energy density is atrocious, however.

[Edited on July 17, 2007 at 7:33 PM. Reason : 2]

7/17/2007 7:32:39 PM

yeah but what are a few train cars going to add to an entire consist

7/17/2007 7:33:49 PM

Huh?

7/17/2007 7:37:05 PM

Quote :

"If this kind of hybrid is gonna be featured in automobiles, I would expect it to start out in heavy trucks and vans."

International is currently selling a hybrid truck... I found out about it right after leasing a Ford F750 but when that lease is up, I'm very interested... and in 4 years I think it'll be more developed.

Quote :

"Axle Configurations 4x2 Wheelbase 152" to 254" Front Axle 8,000 - 14,000 lb. Capacity Rear Axle 12,200 - 23,000 lb. Capacity Engine International DT 225 HP @ 560 225 HP @ 620 Transmission Eaton Fuller Hybrid Drive 6-speed Automated Manual with or without ePTO Cab Conventional Cab Extended Cab Fuel Tank 50 gallon Steel of Non-Polished Aluminum, Right Side Mounted Only 70 gallon Steel or Non-Polished Aluminum, Right Side Mounted Only Electrical System Alternators- Leece-Neville - 145 Amp Alternators Delco-Remy America 145 Amp Alternators Battery Systems- 2 or 3 12-volt Battery Hybrid - 340 Volt Lithium Ion Battery (Nominal) Headlights- Long Life Halogen Body Circuit Switches- 6 or 12 switches in Instrument Panel, 20 Amps Per Channel, 80 Amps Max Output Exhaust System- Horizontal, Aftertreatment Device, Frame Mounted Right Side Back of Cab, Includes Horizontal Tail pipe. Steering- TRW, Sheppard Brakes- Air"

7/17/2007 7:52:06 PM

Quote :

"Huh?"

where are you confused?

7/17/2007 8:31:52 PM

Audi to debut new diesel engines in mid-2008 which will meet all future emissions limits, including California. So, these new models will be coming to the US as well.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/country/gcf/newsID/2070718.001/audi/audi-to-launch-next-gen-diesel-and-hybrid-engines

Quote :

"Due to the very low emissions which comply with BIN 5 requirements in the US (including California) as well as the upcoming new Euro 5 levels, the engines will be put into circulation worldwide. After the A4 and Q7 models, the engine will be gradually integrated into the remainder of the model range by 2010."

And they ain't no slouches either:

3 litres V6
240 hp
369 lb-ft (A4) (almost as much as the M5's!!!)
406 lb-ft (Q7) (other models to come in 2010)

Quote :

"Audi has announced they will launch their new generation diesel engines starting in the second half of 2008 starting with the 3.0 liter V6 unit in the Audi A4 and Audi Q7. The optimized engine gets a small increase in horsepower from 233 bhp to 240 bhp while torque generously bumps up an additional 50 Nm from 450 Nm to 500 Nm and 500 Nm to 550 Nm respectively."

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 8:00 PM. Reason : ]

7/18/2007 7:56:47 PM

Funny how GM can't do it, yet all these other automakers don't seem to have a problem at all.

7/18/2007 10:52:43 PM

Funny how you guys can't click on the link at the top of the page

Quote :

"For example, GM's diesel engines, which are planned be sold in all 50 states - including those that use stricter California emissions standards - would probably still be about 25 percent more fuel efficient than a similar gasoline engine, said Charlie Freese, executive director for diesel technology at GM"

7/19/2007 12:05:06 AM