http://tinyurl.com/33l3vd

6/28/2007 12:33:15 AM

That is awesome! regretfully, given the low price of oil, a plastic bottle is still worthless.

6/28/2007 12:41:54 AM

if they have a machine for the process, why is there a picture of some copper tubes, an upside down bottle, and a poorly attached plastic rod instead of the "hawk-10?"

6/28/2007 12:53:50 AM

there was a video with article, which showed the machine, but its been /.'ed

6/28/2007 1:02:25 AM

b/c the "hawk-10" is just a microwave... they just expanded the frequencies it generates and added a drain it seems

6/28/2007 1:35:35 AM

WILL IT BLEND???

6/28/2007 2:29:26 AM

oil has always been renewable. the earth regenerates new oil a lot faster than most people think.

6/28/2007 10:01:46 AM

^ RTFA

what you said has absolutely zero to do with this thread.

6/28/2007 10:13:59 AM

what I said had absolutely everything to do with the thread title. the earth regenerates oil, which makes it renewable. the article simply claimed that turning petroleum into plastics is a reversible process.

6/28/2007 10:45:20 AM

Quote :

"the earth regenerates new oil a lot faster than most people think."

not trying to be picky, but being a semi-technical thread, i made a correction.

anyway, i am feeling lazy, so can i please get a source on that? yeah i am sure the earth is making new oil, that's only logical, but i want a source on the "a lot faster than most people think". more importantly, whether it is a lot faster than most people think, or not, is a moot point. the actual question is does the earth make new oil fast enough for humans to keep using it SIGNIFICANTLY longer than the current predictions of 60-100 years?

6/28/2007 11:24:14 AM

can I get a source on your prediction of 60-100 years? That 60 year estimate was the same in 1900, 1960, and currently, but we haven't come close to running out of oil yet. In fact, we've had oil wells in the gulf coast the dried up in the 70's rejuvenate themselves. The earth will never run out of oil. there are predictions about at what time using current extraction technology that pumping out oil will no longer be economically feasible, but our technology is currently changing.

6/28/2007 11:54:32 AM

My thread:

?topic=432677

Current known Potential oil reserves will last till 2146 at current levels of consumption.

[Low end of] current known oil reserves will last till 2100 at current levels of consumption

[Low end of] current known oil reserves will last till 2070 assuming 2%/year increase in oil consumption.



OK, it is more than "60-100". More like 60-140 years.

6/28/2007 12:03:26 PM

Well then we're all saved!!




Until all the CO2 emissions send the climate out of control and we all die from extreme temperatures, weather, and food and water shortages.

6/28/2007 12:05:03 PM

wow, this went from a conversation about how stupid the concept of peak oil is into someone shouting off logical fallacies about the impact of CO2 on the environment. you people will regurgitate anything without scientific data backing it up, won't you?

6/28/2007 12:34:32 PM

Quote :

"My thread: ?topic=432677 Current known Potential oil reserves will last till 2146 at current levels of consumption."

your numbers are based on Peak Oil theory, and who benefits from peak oil theory? oil producers. who came up with your numbers? oil producers.

if you want any decent articles on abiotic oil theory, you're going to need Babelfish or some other type of online translator.

6/28/2007 12:45:17 PM

Quote :

"That is awesome! regretfully, given the low price of oil, a plastic bottle is still worthless."

Not sure this is a bad thing. We don't currently recieve anything for our refuse, in fact we pay for its collection through taxes. So, a company that is willing to collect said refuse and turn it into petroleum products would benefit from paying roughly $0 for the cost of the actual raw materials.

The question remains, can a profit be made given the other costs of doing business?

6/28/2007 12:58:10 PM

the article doesn't mention the amount of energy or time required to produce the petroleum products. This process might result in a negative net energy balance.

Either way, it sounds like a great possibility for how to get rid of heaps of used tires that are scattered across this country.

6/28/2007 3:06:42 PM

Didn't thermal depolymerization process also promise to give us oil?

Quote :

"the article doesn't mention the amount of energy or time required to produce the petroleum products. This process might result in a negative net energy balance."

That's my primary concern. If it takes more energy to make the oil than can be gotten out of the oil, then the process is worthless.

6/28/2007 4:06:53 PM

Not really. Its a typical recycling process. I think the main benefit is that it saves on stuff going into landfills

6/28/2007 4:17:22 PM

So basically it's only a way of recovering a few more drops of oil.

Don't get me wrong, it's always a good thing to keep oil from going to landfills (since they can leak out and intoxicate the environment). But it's not going to do anything to alleviate the impending oil shortage. We're still better off switching away from oil as quickly as possible.

6/28/2007 4:36:40 PM

I don't think this is a way to prevent any kind of oil crisis but its a good way to get rid of a bunch of old tires and stuff

6/28/2007 4:46:03 PM

Quote :

"If it takes more energy to make the oil than can be gotten out of the oil, then the process is worthless. "

if it can be applied to particularly nasty landfill items such as tires and vulcanized radial belts, then it's worth the extra energy. I'd rather waste a little energy to convert these products into relatively useful products instead of letting them sit around in a landfill just waiting to catch on fire and dump all sorts of nasty toxins into the atmosphere.

Also, don't kid yourself about an oil shortage. There isn't one, and there never has been one. OPEC is the only group claiming Peak Oil to be a reality, yet they increase their reservoir estimates every year. countries like Russia and the Ukraine ditched peak oil philosphy 20 years ago and somehow managed to become among the largest oil producers in the world.

6/28/2007 5:52:36 PM

Quote :

"current predictions of 60-100 years?"

they have been saying that for how long now?

you need oil for other things than power and fuel...

[Edited on June 28, 2007 at 5:56 PM. Reason : oil]

6/28/2007 5:53:53 PM

people have been crying wolf about oil reserves running out for the entire industrial revolution. the facts are that our reserve estimates are higher than ever, our production and consumption are higher than ever, and yet our prices marginalized for inflation are fairly consistent with what they were decades ago.

There were US estimates in the 1870's that there was only enough oil left to fuel kerosene lamps for another 4 years.

The driving politics behind the 1973 oil embargo predicted that the US was on the verge of an energy gap that would hit its peak by the year 2000. While our transmission system in this country is bottlenecked to near capacity, we have an abundance of generation capacity.

Also, no one ever wants to consider shale oil reserves into their oil estimates, yet we already have the technology and the economics at hand to tap into the trillions of barrels worth of shale reserves on the planet.

6/28/2007 6:08:58 PM

Quote :

"Didn't thermal depolymerization process also promise to give us oil?"

I think the process should be retitled

"Create no new oil and make 33 cents a gallon on federal subsidies"

6/28/2007 6:23:41 PM

hahaha $5 to the person who can find the website/article eleusis keeps paraphrasing

he mentioned babelfish. hint

6/28/2007 7:47:35 PM

There are several good research documents on how much of a farce peak oil is, but they're all written in Russian.

6/28/2007 10:34:41 PM

OMG I HATE GEORGE BUSH K

6/29/2007 12:19:24 AM

^why?

6/29/2007 9:24:50 AM

Quote :

" the article doesn't mention the amount of energy or time required to produce the petroleum products. This process might result in a negative net energy balance."

From the article:

"GRC says its Hawk-10 can extract enough oil and gas from the left-over fluff to run the Hawk-10 itself and a number of other machines used by Gershow."

Wouldn't this suggest that there is a positive energy balance?

[Edited on July 1, 2007 at 7:03 PM. Reason : .]

7/1/2007 7:01:56 PM

they don't mention what other machines the fuel could power. If it's just running some sensory equipment and not the grinder that pulverized the tire sections before going in the microwave, then that wouldn't imply a positive energy balance.

7/1/2007 7:15:28 PM

IF IT WASN'T FOR GEORGE BUSH WE WOULDN'T NEED OIL K

7/1/2007 8:35:32 PM

i love how a finite resource can be unlimited in the eye of eleusis. the earth does not make oil anywhere NEAR the rate we use it.

7/1/2007 8:52:23 PM

you can not prove that, so don't act like you know what the fuck you're talking about. 250 year old folklore is not going to be used to prove your case. oil doesn't come from dinosaur fossils; it's not going to run out in the next 60 years, and we haven't even come close to tapping into the hydrocarbon reserves on this planet.

Russia ditched that dumbass theory of biogenic oil and has somehow become one of the largest oil exporters in the world. Natural gas and petroleum reserves in the gulf coast have replinished themselves in the last 20 years after they were previously thought to be completely exhausted. Does that mean absolutely nothing to you, or are you just scared of the economic ramifications of finally admitting Hubbart's propaganda was wrong?

7/2/2007 4:11:20 PM

post some links to something, eleusis

it'd make it a lot easier to believe you

7/2/2007 5:27:44 PM

Quote :

"Russia ditched that dumbass theory of biogenic oil and has somehow become one of the largest oil exporters in the world. "

What the fuck does ditching a theory have to do with being an oil exporter? For fucks sake.

7/2/2007 6:28:22 PM

I trust Smath74 over eleusis. After all, Smath74 is a geologist.

7/2/2007 10:52:34 PM

it's a very big deal for the former Soviet Cell block states to have recently become major exporters because they are drilling super deep wells to get their petroleum. Based on the previous theory of biogenic oil being produced by decaying organic matter and the fact that organic matter is rarely found below 18,000 feet, Russia and the Ukraine were thought to be extremely deficient in petroleum reserves. During the cold war, they ditch that theory in favor of research indicating petroleum comes from abiogenic reactions deep within the earth's core. They start drilling super deep wells in the range of 30,000+ feet during the 1970s, and now they produce more oil than any other country in the world.

Right now the US Department of Energy is giving large incentives to American companies to invest in deep well R&D through their "Deep Trek" program. That's pretty much a dead giveaway that our own country is on the verge of dumping the biogenic theory.

7/2/2007 10:53:19 PM

If Smath is so smart about this shit, then maybe he can explain to everyone why peak oil has not occurred yet and why all the models that have been made for peak oil have been so far off the mark?

7/2/2007 10:55:27 PM

Quote :

"petroleum comes from abiogenic reactions deep within the earth's core."

haha what sort of nonsense is that?

Quote :

"If Smath is so smart about this shit, then maybe he can explain to everyone why peak oil has not occurred yet and why all the models that have been made for peak oil have been so far off the mark?"

ok, i'm just going to answer this as if the statement above is true...
because techniques have been developed to tap into areas that were previously too deep or too geologically complex. this trend will not last forever, as better technology can't find oil that isn't there, or suddenly make small areas of oil requiring complex and expensive rigs become profitable.

[Edited on July 3, 2007 at 8:45 AM. Reason : ]

7/3/2007 8:33:52 AM

Quote :

"suddenly make small areas of oil requiring complex and expensive rigs become profitable."

But new technology can make the rigs required to access it simple and cheap.

That said, high prices make even the most expensive means of production profitable.

7/3/2007 9:03:28 AM

^^good job on avoiding answering the questions. technology should have absolutely nothing to do with the vastly increasing reserve estimates. Saudi Arabia and Kuwait one several occasions have drastically increased their reserve numbers without having any major new finds. All OPEC countries have been lowballing their reserve estimates for decades in an attempt to inflate prices.

How do you explain the petroleum fields in the gulf coast that have regenerated themselves after being depleted only a couple decades ago? Would you be completely shocked to find out that the exact same thing is happening all over the world and that it is not being reported for political reasons?

7/3/2007 11:11:51 AM

Quote :

"How do you explain the petroleum fields in the gulf coast that have regenerated themselves after being depleted only a couple decades ago?"

link, plz

7/3/2007 2:53:15 PM

This just smacks of something that uncle sam is going to be getting involved in, and not in the good way.
think of all the middlemen that will be cut out by this...
just saying, i wouldn't be surprised if it's banned for local-usage (if it hasn't already)

at least huge roadblocks for the smaller groups



[Edited on July 3, 2007 at 4:03 PM. Reason : .]

7/3/2007 3:56:28 PM

we're going to run out of oxygen soon!

7/3/2007 4:01:37 PM

oh noes!

7/3/2007 5:26:17 PM

^^^Eugene Island 330

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf124/sf124p10.htm

7/3/2007 7:03:43 PM

^ meant ^^^^.

7/4/2007 1:28:52 AM

way to find one 8-year old article to support all the bullshit you're spewing

7/4/2007 8:46:36 AM

Before you attack him, do a little digging. There is an entire book written by T. Gold about this subject. And, just by reviews on Amazon about it, you can get the idea that there has been considerable work done in regards to discovering the truth about where oil really comes from. A reviewer commented:

Quote :

"Multinational oil companies use microbes that feed on oil to break up oil spills by digesting oil. Evidently the fossil fuel myth is just for public consumption. Gold tells us in this book that Vietnam's White Tiger oil field is producing oil from basement rock, and that hundreds of holes have been drilled down to oil and gas found in basement rock in Russia(Tatarstan), Canadian Shield, and Swedish Siljan Shield."

Quote :

"Gold's book describes research done largely by Russians and Ukrainians on the origin of oil, which has been shamefully discounted and ignored in the West. The Western dogma, he claims, is just another one of those things that nearly everyone believes, but is wrong. "

It's obviously a different view than we are used to. I'm probably going to pick this book up and see what it has to say.

7/4/2007 10:49:53 AM