So, I applied to a bunch of graduate schools and naturally they all denied me admission, so I'm trying to teach math in Wake County during 2007-2008. Does anyone have experience with this process/know how difficult it is? I have a B.S. and M.S. in math, but no education background, but I think I could get a lateral entry license. I've filled out all the paperwork, and I keep contacting schools with job openings in math, but none of 'em have replied. Any advice/shared experiences regarding this? I usually post in Chit Chat but am posting in the Lounge because I don't feel like being flamed to death.

6/18/2007 11:31:21 AM

6/18/2007 12:11:09 PM

You won't be able to do lateral entry in Wake County. Technically, lateral entry goes again federal guildlines in the No child left behind program, so these programs are technically illegal. Wake county has so many teachers with licenses wanting to teach here, that they don't have to resort to anyone without a license. You can do lateral entry in smaller counties, such as Johnston County. I looked into the process personally and it seemed like so much hassle, and decided to just go to school full time for 2 years to get my license. With the LE program, you have 3 years do do that same amount of coursework, yet you are working full-time on top of it.

6/18/2007 12:12:10 PM

The classes are all online. My wife went this route to be a business teacher. She is finished w/ it now and is almost finished getting her masters. ANd it didn't take her 3 years. It did take her 3 years to do the license classes and get her masters and that is only b/c she took a light load 2 semester b/c we had a child. She also knew someone who get her a job at a high school so she didn't have any problems.

6/18/2007 12:17:59 PM

^^
Well, thanks, that is valuable information even though it sucks abundantly

^ Thx, but I'm not looking at public school teaching as career; just something to do for the next 12 months while I apply to less prestigious schools. Nevertheless I'll keep that in mind, in case I change my plans.

6/18/2007 12:22:35 PM

For what it's worth, certified does not necessarily mean qualified. This is one of my big problems with NCLB and the K-12 education bureaucracy in general. If the system really needs math teachers, it should be able to place someone with an MS degree in math in a teaching position, right?

6/18/2007 12:34:36 PM

While LE opportunities are limited, they most definetly are not non-existant. During my last semester of school and while I was on the job hunt, I was a substitute teacher in Wake County and I had more than a few offers to come on board the following year as a lateral entry teacher. You may want to consider subbing as a way of making a name for yourself and making connections with the schools that you are interested in. Since it is the summer time, id imagine that the only options for this right now are middle schools and maybe one or two high schools on a non-traditional calendar.

Oh and I'm certain that you already know this but just for argument's sake, Do not mention to the schools that you are not interested in teaching as a career and that you only want to teach for one year.

6/18/2007 12:39:47 PM

I'm pretty sure Wake County doesn't hire child rapist

6/18/2007 12:45:02 PM

Quote :

"You won't be able to do lateral entry in Wake County. Technically, lateral entry goes again federal guildlines in the No child left behind program, so these programs are technically illegal. Wake county has so many teachers with licenses wanting to teach here, that they don't have to resort to anyone without a license. You can do lateral entry in smaller counties, such as Johnston County. I looked into the process personally and it seemed like so much hassle, and decided to just go to school full time for 2 years to get my license. With the LE program, you have 3 years do do that same amount of coursework, yet you are working full-time on top of it."

most of this is not accurate.

6/18/2007 12:57:23 PM

^^^ Yeah, I'll definitely do substitute work whenever it comes along, it would be good extra cash. And damn right I'm not going to tell them it's just for a year.

^
The statements I'm most concerned about are

Quote :

"You won't be able to do lateral entry in Wake County. "

Quote :

"Wake county has so many teachers with licenses wanting to teach here, that they don't have to resort to anyone without a license. "

If you know anything contrary to these two statements, please tell. And in any case I'm planning to keep on applying for any math teaching jobs that come along, just because it can't hurt.

6/18/2007 1:18:18 PM

yeah what exactly is inaccurate about that? because i just did all that research in the last 9 months, and most of that information came from education and lateral entry "professionals" at nc state, nc central, and johnston county.

depending on the courses you had taken as an undergrad, that might determine how many hours you will need to take to get your certification. my number was 60 ~ 2 years.

and the information about the lateral entry being technically illegal is absolutely true- i read it in the no child left behind legistlation just this past semester as part of elp344.

it doesn't really help ANYONE for you to simply post that information is inaccurate, "most of this is inaccurate" doesn't even specify what you are suggesting is inaccurate. and if you don't know any truly accurate information to present to the contrary, how can you say it's inaccurate!?!

6/18/2007 1:33:27 PM

Better off looking at a neighboring county.

6/18/2007 1:36:50 PM

^ Good idea. It's much easier to get in there, and the pay is much better than for a substitute.

Also, consider a community college (where your MS in math would be valued) or a private high school (which won't have as many governmental pressures regarding education degrees).

6/18/2007 3:25:31 PM

i second the private school approach or private tutoring...

6/18/2007 3:42:43 PM

^^^, ^^
If that is really so then I will definitely bust out my NC county map and see about Johnston, etc.
Any recommendations on which counties would be best?

6/18/2007 5:02:57 PM

Yes, wake county will be more difficult to get a lateral entry gig than surrounding counties due to it being a desirable school system for applicants already holding licenses but that does not mean that the opportunities do not exist. Like I said previously, I was offered a few positions and I do not have nor never held a teaching license. I would imagine that holding an MS in math would also give you a leg up on many other LE applicants. Also, if I remember correctly, many administrators will hire lateral entry applicants pretty late.

As others have said, check out private schools and community colleges.

6/18/2007 6:23:57 PM

many high schools in wake county probably won't hire an LE candidate over a licensed candidate, even if the former has a masters. contrary to popular belief, there's a lot more to teaching than just knowing subject material. but there are jobs out there, if you look in the right places. wake county is probably not one of them though. sorry.

6/18/2007 6:30:49 PM

you cant teach a kid how to add with a masters in math?

what the fuck is wrong with this country

6/18/2007 6:57:43 PM

^^ All things being equal, sure it would only make sense to go with the applicant that already has their license. However, there are plenty of factors that can and do cause administrators to go with the lateral entry applicant. Just having a license does not in and of itself demonstrate that a candidate has what it takes to be successful in the classroom. That said, it would likely be far easier to get a position outside of wake county

6/18/2007 7:00:57 PM

I was in a LE program for a while and found the people that are in it to be the most childish and assholish people I have ever encountered. Really soured me.

6/18/2007 7:33:54 PM

[Edited on June 18, 2007 at 9:50 PM. Reason : rawr. i hate stupid people]

6/18/2007 9:43:56 PM

Lateral Entry was a good entry maybe 3 years ago for Wake County. I was even reimbursed $2200 for classes and the Praxis through a grant program.

6/18/2007 9:48:00 PM

wake co schools has a page about lateral entry on their site.... check that out

6/18/2007 10:00:26 PM

An administrator would be stupid to hire some noob douchebag who is only going to stay a year.

6/18/2007 10:25:42 PM

I only skimmed this thread, so I apologize if this has been covered.

I'm a lateral entry English teacher in Lenoir County. I have a B.A. in English, and I worked for a newspaper for two years before deciding to try teaching. I filled out an application at the state DPI web-site and sent it to about half a dozen counties that were within about an hour's commute from my house. I got calls from Johnston (where the system knew me through the newspaper), Lenoir, and Pitt (which was a bit of a surprise since ECU cranks out so many new teachers in that area).

I took the job in Lenoir. I'm considered a full-time teacher, and I'll move up the pay-scale in August just like a licensed teacher. For all intents and purposes, I am a teacher.

The state imposes a three-year limit on all lateral entry teachers to complete the necessary course work to become fully licensed. In my case, I had to complete a "plan of study" that outlined what classes I needed in order to be considered fully licensed to teach English. With my B.A. from State, that worked out to six classes. I took one in the spring, and I'm taking five over both summer sessions. I'll take the Praxis this summer (another requirement), and then I'll be fully licensed by the first day of school. Sounds relatively painless, eh?

Other things to consider: My education is greatly, greatly discounted. Many counties (perhaps most now) have partnerships with the N.C. Model Teacher Education Consortium, which provides low-cost classes to working teachers (and assistants, I believe). Each of my classes cost $80 and came with a free book voucher. Five of the six courses are online. It's really not that much work.

I decided to cram all of my classes into one year to get them over with, but the state allows you to pace yourself over three years. You must complete six hours by the end of the first year, 12 after two years (I think), and any remaining hours by the end of the third year. I'm not sure when the Praxis is required, but it's at some point within that three-year window.

As a potential math teacher, you stand a greater chance of being hired than those of us in the humanities. There are shortages in math and science throughout the state. Many counties give additional supplements to certified teachers in those areas (though you won't qualify since you're pursuing lateral entry).

If you decide to go into teaching, I'd strongly advise quick action. Principals are already making plans and lining up interviews to fill vacancies. The sooner you get your name out there, the better chance you'll have.

If you (or anyone else) has any questions about lateral entry teaching, shoot me a PM.

6/18/2007 10:45:04 PM

they do allow it for math because there are fliers all over next to my office. But I ageee i think its funny that they say "we need so many teachers" but don't allow someone with a master in for most programs.

I mean shit a lot of us have taught classes at a flagship university, but since we don't have a license we can't teach (for shitty wages) without doing a ton of bs.

6/18/2007 10:46:35 PM

definitely try some private schools in raleigh. there's a shit-ton to choose from. just go to greatschools.net and search for private schools in raleigh. a lot of times they hire based on your subject major rather than having an "education degree". when I was trying to get a job in social studies in private schools, i just e-mailed all the principals (or headmaster, whatever) and asked them if they had any openings for next school year. with math, you should have noooo problem whatsoever finding openings

6/18/2007 11:20:09 PM

Quote :

"You won't be able to do lateral entry in Wake County. "

i'm lateral entry and I'm working in wake county in the fall.

I do have a year experience though working in johnston county, and most of my lat entry requirements have been completed.

6/18/2007 11:51:04 PM

theres more to teaching than just knowing the material. you can be a fucking genius and not have the slightest clue how to teach someone. espeically when it comes to technical stuff.

havent we all had a brilliant professor, who you just couldnt learn a damn thing from? i know it's common in engineering college to have a few of those guys.

my personal experience: i tutored calculus to high school seniors, college freshmen and sophmores for about a year. I did really well at it. many people repeatedly returned to me, i felt bad because they would often avoid other tutors in the same group.

then i tried a move into tutoring adults (17-50 years old) trying to get their GED's who needed help with the general math stuff.

i tell ya, i didnt have much luck with this group. i could explain how to integrate and differentiate all day long, but how the hell do you explain something like ratios and fractions to someone who just doesnt have a damn clue about them. i tried so many different ways, and even when i'd feel like i made a connection, and they'd say "yeah, yeah, i get it now"... the next damn day they'd have forgotten it all and be back at the beginning.

obviously, it was my fault. i didnt know how to teach it. a big part was i didnt really have the patience needed. i gave up after a couple weeks and went back to tutoring calculus.

so anyhow, i'm not down with all this certification bullshit.

because some teachers out there can fill out paperwork, connect the dots, and pass their core competency exams on their subject matter, but they just cant reach a motherfucker who is struggling to learn.

6/19/2007 1:30:48 AM

i agree, just because you know material doesn't mean you know how to teach. and while there are many many certified teachers that are crappy teachers, there is a reason people go through certification and student teaching. you do get graded on how well you teach, and while it may not stop you from getting your teaching license, employers will see how well you did or did not perform in the classroom.

and like someone said earlier, you shouldn't try to go into teaching if you only want to do it for a year. ass.

6/19/2007 1:51:57 AM

^ I know that I mentioned that he shouldnt mention to administrators that he only intends to teach for one year but I really don't see too big of a problem with only teaching for a year. If someone is a gifted teacher who knows their subject well yet doesnt see themselves making a career in teaching, what is the problem with only doing it for a year? It's not as though they are shortchanging the students since they will only be in his class for one year and then move on.

6/19/2007 1:57:37 AM

^^ well, i didn't mean to say that i'm against certification in general -- obviously teachers need to be certified, and the process should be fairly rigorous. teaching is not just a job someone picks up on a whim

im against what i perceived to be a movement to force veteran teachers to line up and be graded by some bureaucrat's vision of "core competency" where, say, a Middle School math teacher would have to repeatedly prove that they could do math at their BS degree level ... Differential Equations, Linear Algebra, Number Theory, etc... when the concepts they teach are fractions, ratios, decimals, maybe some simple pre-algebra concepts.


^ no, i think you miss the point. it would be a complete waste of time for a school district to spend the resources on trying to train a teacher who leaves after one year. you're not even going to be competent to teach until at least one year into it. teaching is not something you can just wander into and start doing. i dont care what 80's movies you might have watched where it all worked out in a funny and entertaining manner..




[Edited on June 19, 2007 at 2:09 AM. Reason : ]

6/19/2007 2:02:27 AM

Quote :

"and like someone said earlier, you shouldn't try to go into teaching if you only want to do it for a year. ass. "

I remember my chemistry class back in high school had a new teacher. Prior to teaching he played baseball (spent a few weeks in the pros) then decided to teach. It was his first year and he took a new job around the Feb/March time frame. The rest of the year we had the new 22 yr old PE coach teach us Chemistry that he didn't really know. He was taught it earlier in the day by some other teacher and then he had to try to teach us. I felt really bad for that guy.

6/19/2007 2:19:07 AM

damn. sounds like everyone got fucked.

here's a hint for Jeffrey: go work at Manpower or Aerotek or something til you can do what you really want to do..

if you really want to be a teacher... start subbing while you work on your certification like everyone else.

6/19/2007 2:43:58 AM

Quote :

"start subbing while you work on your certification like everyone else."

You are entirely misguided.

6/19/2007 9:32:25 AM

Quote :

"^ no, i think you miss the point. it would be a complete waste of time for a school district to spend the resources on trying to train a teacher who leaves after one year. you're not even going to be competent to teach until at least one year into it. teaching is not something you can just wander into and start doing. i dont care what 80's movies you might have watched where it all worked out in a funny and entertaining manner.."

Sure, it is a waste of resources for the school district to train and support a new teach who only stays for one year but is it really that much different from the tons of new education graduates who only last a year? In general, i certainly agree that teaching is not something that you can just wander into. However, there are people that are naturally comfortable in the classroom and end up doing a fine job in their first year. This is the type of person that i was referring to in my previous post, not every lateral entry applicant that is only using teaching as their fallback. It doesn't take an 80's movie to distinguish between the two

6/19/2007 9:50:34 AM

Durham public schools needs teachers badly

we also need subs

I'd apply to be a substitute if I were you. They make decent money.

6/19/2007 11:12:37 AM

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I am working on applying to Johnston, Chatham, Franklin and Harnett counties. And also checking out greatschools.net for private school openings.

Regarding

Quote :

"you shouldn't try to go into teaching if you only want to do it for a year. ass."

I see your point, but this isn't a matter of principle, this is a matter of naked self-interest, and supporting myself comes before anything else.

Also, it's true that a Master's degree doesn't imply ability to teach, but it so happens that I CAN teach. I wouldn't even be pursuing this option if I couldn't. I've taught a couple precalculus classes and a private SAT course, and also tutor 2-3 hours a week.


[Edited on June 19, 2007 at 1:11 PM. Reason : /]

6/19/2007 1:07:29 PM

Quote :

"I mean shit a lot of us have taught classes at a flagship university, but since we don't have a license we can't teach (for shitty wages) without doing a ton of bs."

i had a professor at nc state who is teaching edu classes... with 2 BA degrees, 1 MA, 1 PhD and had taught for 5 years in VA schools... yet she couldn't teach in NC without going back to school for at least a year

Based on that and some other information I have read, NC has one of the more substantial licensure programs in the country- as in you are required to take more edu classes, etc. to be licensed.

6/19/2007 3:12:37 PM

My 2 cents.

I am a licensed English teacher who graduated a couple of years ago in December. Because of personal circumstances, my job hunt was confined to Wake County. I spent a year looking for a job (eventually pursued other options) and noticed a few things:

A lot of experienced teachers from other school systems are trying to get into Wake County -- just attend a WCPSS job fair and you will see what I mean. Since there are a lot of experienced teachers trying to get in, the prospects for initially licensed teachers and lateral entry applicants just aren't what they are in other counties. I saw a few of my peers get hired right into Wake County as the result of long term substituting or phenomenal student teaching experiences, but many sat without jobs until schools became desperate because of teachers leaving mid-semester or just moved on to other counties.

If you really want to teach in Wake County, you will have a better chance of getting a job if you go to another county and teach for a while or work in Wake County as a substitute. It's just hard to get into Wake without any experience or connections with people in the schools. Wake County is just not in the same desperate position that other school systems are in.

If you do not mind moving or commuting, you won't have any problem finding a job. You would not believe the need in other counties. I was floored by the number of phone calls and inquiries that I received from other schools looking for teachers.

6/19/2007 3:48:00 PM

perrrvite skools

6/19/2007 3:51:46 PM

^^ i guess i was one of those with a really good student teaching experience because i got hired in wake county 3 days after graduation.

also, johnston county might be a little tough too- some of my friends are having a hard time finding a job in JC high schools.

i still don't think you should try to teach if it's only for one year, but i understand the "i need a job" issue. fyi, private schools often pay less than public schools, weird, but true.

[Edited on June 19, 2007 at 5:30 PM. Reason : doo da doo]

6/19/2007 5:28:25 PM

I did lateral entry very easily at Clayton High School in Johnston County. Johnston is dieing for math teachers so it shouldn't be a problem for you.

6/19/2007 5:39:58 PM

look at other counties. If you feel like moving to MD, we desperately need math teachers in my county. I was literally hired after interview for 5 minutes, without having any teaching experience or a teaching degree...just B.S. in math. If you do get a job, it will probably be teaching all Algebra, or whatever the lowest level of HS math is down there. Make sure you will be happy doing this, or it will make for a very long year. Dont just do it because you cant find anything else. Also, you dont just work from 8-3:30. Your first year, you will probably be putting in 3+ hours at home grading papers and doing lesson plans. I know even now I still work all but about 3 hours of my waking day.

6/19/2007 6:26:53 PM

^ what he said

your job isn't over when the bell rings.

My first year I spent AT LEAST 2 -3 hours every night and most of Sunday working on lesson plans, grading assignments, and other duties.

And I have my B.S. in education a second B.S. and a nearly completed Masters in education. I had a great student teaching experience and know the content I teach inside and out for the most part.

There are department meetings and faculty meetings, open houses, parent-teacher conferences, IEP & 504 meetings, developmental workshops, and a thousand other things that come up and make you stay after school an extra few hours. Plus you'll need to stay after school with students who need extra help.

parents can be pretty difficult to deal with. either they don't care about their child or they care too much and you'll hear from them more often than your own parents.

But teaching can be an extremely rewarding experience. It really is a calling. If I didn't enjoy it most of the time then I wouldn't be doing it. Most people with 3 degrees get paid a lot more than I do in this world. but i love the classes I teach and I like most of my students. I've made a difference and want to continue doing so.

If you really enjoy teaching and realize all the extra duties and responsibilities that come along with it than go for it.

6/19/2007 7:09:06 PM

My first year teaching I got 99% of my grading/planning/etc done during planning and an hour or so after school.

6/19/2007 7:52:16 PM

In response to V

I don't suppose I'm eligible for the stipend if I'm finishing my coursework through the NCMTEC this summer, am I?



[Edited on June 19, 2007 at 8:04 PM. Reason : because that'd be awesome]

6/19/2007 7:53:59 PM

Hello, My name is Emily and I am "Panthro's" wife. I am a coordinator for NC TEACH, a cohort lateral entry program run through UNC-General Administration. We provide the education coursework lateral entry teachers need at 12 different host universities. It takes about a year to complete and you can take the coursework face to face, online or in a blended model. If you commit to teaching in a high-need school district (both Wake County and Lenoir are considered high-need) for a minimum of three years you would be eligible for the NC TEACH II stipend of $3000. The host university coordinator at the university you attend can assist you with job placement and preparation. Lateral entry teachers are considered highly qualified and have up to 3 years to complete all of their education coursework. Wake County does hire lateral entry teachers. As a Math teacher you should have no problem finding a job as this is a very high-need subject area. Check out www.ncteach.net for more info! And best of luck!

6/19/2007 7:55:59 PM

As a student teacher, I spent quite a few hours outside of my school day doing things related to school. English papers take a long time to read and grade, making up your own tests and worksheets can be a bitch, and creating and prepping for lessons can be all consuming depending on how well you know the material.

I don't mean this in a bad way at all because I think that a good teacher is a good teacher no how they do their job. But one of my friends is doing lateral entry in another school system and I watched her go through her first year teaching last year. And I think that people who have gone through an ED program may actually do a lot of extra crap than someone who hasn't gone through an ED program because we are taught that we *have* to do certain things in order to prep and teach a lesson. In reality, we could probably still be damned good teachers without it, but we haven't figured out what's really necessary or we feel obligated to do things exactly as we were taught.

6/19/2007 8:12:51 PM