sup all, im building a new comp to replace my old one (for sale on classifieds)

going for water cooling this time around

im looking for a full tower to give me more room to work with and MUST have side panel (prefferable as much viewable area as possible) OR if you know of a great way that i can add a see through panel myself as an aftermarket touch feel free to lend me your knowledge! this will be my 3rd build so give me all the cases you can!

so far the one im considering is

6/4/2007 6:46:18 PM

gah, i got rid of my tower because i seriously got sick of the massive thing...i now run one of those cube microfly microATX cases...i love it

6/4/2007 6:56:37 PM

yeah if i had to get down to it i prefer mid tower, but since ive never installed my own water system i wanted alot of room to make it look great, really get that tubing where i want it

6/4/2007 7:03:16 PM

now will the heat exchanger be inside or outside the case?

6/4/2007 7:45:12 PM

The thermaltake Armor series is good. The full tower is perfect for water cooling, and it already has precut holes for tubes.
http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/product/Chassis/fulltower/armor/va8003bws.asp
-They even sell this case with water cooling included. I just bought the case alone and installed the water cooling.

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 7:53 PM. Reason : .]

6/4/2007 7:51:01 PM

why a see through panel? You'll get better thermal performance with a solid aluminum or steel side panel, and it won't look completely gay.

6/4/2007 7:52:18 PM

caring about what your tower looks like is so 1990's

6/4/2007 7:54:40 PM

I used to think that, but it's more fun to be able to see your video card and various components plus lighting if you so desire.
-Plus i am able to see the dust build up so i know when to blow out the components.
-And when people ask what's in the computer it's easier to show them, then actually take the whole side panel off.

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 7:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/4/2007 7:55:55 PM

Antec P180B
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129017

6/4/2007 7:59:18 PM

^^ how is it fun? I mean, I can see the novelty for like 10 minutes, but after that, it's just a glowing beacon of nerd. Putting lights in your case does two things: increases your power bill and increases the load on your PSU.

As for the dust issue, if you just used, oh i dont know, FILTERS on your fans (which btw, almost all high end cases have, windows they tend not to) you wouldnt need to pop the case every so often to check.

And what ever happened to just verbally telling people what you have under the hood? I mean, I understand the manly urge to show off, but really cmon now.

6/4/2007 8:32:41 PM

I have filters on all my fans, but alas dust still gets through. And i like my window, deal with it.

6/4/2007 8:50:40 PM

I mean, to each their own. I almost went through the "let me try and show off my shit as much as possible/computer ricer" stage, but lucky for me I was broke and by the time I got my hands on money it had passed

6/4/2007 9:51:42 PM

ricing your computer is like arguing on the internet

6/4/2007 10:03:17 PM

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=480431

here's some gay shit right up your alley.

6/4/2007 10:15:23 PM

Quote :

"caring about what your tower looks like is so 1990's"

i echo this.

if you want good thermal and acoustic performance but don't want to give up the tower, i highly suggest the P180's , esp. the SE since it has custom grommets for water cooling

you know you can still mod cases without side panels & lights

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 10:41 PM. Reason : .]

6/4/2007 10:39:55 PM

ok i submit i must be gay if i have a case window and lights!!! oh nooo!!! I'm sorry it's just personal preference and you guys have a personal preference not to have those things which is fine. I like my 250mm fan on the side, and it does wonders to cool the motherboard.

-the only reason i got two black lights was because i noticed everything in the cage was UV reactant. The thermaltake fans, the sata cables, the radiator fan, and various things on the motherboard. I previously didn't really care for lights in cases, or even windows, but i found a pair of lights for 10 bucks, and i was like alright i'll try them out, and they are subtle and i like them.

-The P180 is a great case, i like the removable HD cages.

-Oh and wouldn't an epoxy, or polymer have better thermal conductivity than aluminum? Aluminum is what we call a "first generation thermal managment material". Epoxies and polymers that are becoming standard in most electronic devices (cell phones, laptops, etc) are far better thermal conducters and are lighter (second-generation thermal managment materials), but really haven't made it into the pc case market yet. So in actuality a polymer based door with a fan on it, would have better thermal conductivity than an aluminum door. HIgh performance thermal materials like monolithic carbonaceous materials, metal matrix composites, carbon/carbon composites, ceramic matrix composites, and polymer matrix composites are the new thing for efficient electronic cooling. And yes i did do the research. Had to get my materials science book out for that.

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 11:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/4/2007 11:41:25 PM

u should get an antec...take your pick.

6/4/2007 11:53:28 PM

oh don't get me wrong, i care what my case looks like, just not what others think of it

if you are looking for a happy medium, the antec 900 (nine hundred) is a popular case-modder case and has similar features as p180

[Edited on June 4, 2007 at 11:58 PM. Reason : .]

6/4/2007 11:57:38 PM

oh yeah, if i cared what other people thought about my case i wouldn't have stuck the lights in there, my roommates already make fun of me. I just like how they light up the wall.

6/5/2007 12:06:57 AM

^ Epoxies and other advanced polymers might, but we are talking about either acrylic, plexiglass or PET (probably the most likely these days). Your case window, being made from one of the above is NOT conductive, and sure as hell isn't nearly up to par with aluminum.

If you want to break out the material science here, look at the engineering that has gone into enterprise enclosures, and then the engineering that has gone into your "super leet blacklight window tower". They hacked the damn side panel to put a window in it. No attention paid to the thermodynamics WHATSOEVER.

There are hundreds of ledges around the world perfect for jumping off of. Just because something is US reactant doesn't mean you need to go out and plop some blacklights next to it.

It's a computer. It's not a work of art. If you made your own case, or did something other than "open box, plug in" I could see the argument. But how is showing off that you managed to fit the card into the slot it fits into, and plugged in the cords properly worth displaying?

I've got a TON of respect for modders, and there have been plenty on this site alone. Doing something original, or at least doing it yourself is worth showing off. Buying a tacky ass case, throwing lights in it, and calling it cool is like the guy who just goes down to the porsche dealership and asks how much he can get for $50k.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:15 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 12:14:46 AM

aluminum (metals) is still the best heat transfer agent, the only advantage epoxy/resins and polymers have is their lower coefficient for thermal expansion

if you look it up there's already patents for hybrid materials mixing aluminum or alloy with a combination of epoxy and polymers to try to take the pro's of both.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:20 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 12:19:05 AM

Notice how i never said my case was "cool" or i'm trying to show it off. I simply said i enjoy my case and i like the lights. I never said anyone else liked them, i just said it was my personal perference and it's like putting magnets on your fridge, no harm done.

-And in terms of thermodynamic efficiency having a 25cm fan blowing on the motherboard (with a filter) cools the board much better than a solid aluminum door. I bought the side panel for the fan, not because i could see through it.

-Yeah those new designs are already being used though aren't they? Like the aluminum/polymer mixes in aerospace application, defense stuff, and i guess mostly commercial stuff.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:28 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 12:21:25 AM

look up tunneling, i'm sure Noen can go on and on about air circulation in cases, he built his own test case to research it.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:27 AM. Reason : ,]

6/5/2007 12:27:23 AM

That also actually depends greatly on the ambient room temperature. Another aspect of the HORRID engineering on so many "enthusiast" cases these days. People think that stick a fan on every available space somehow means better cooling efficiency.

You'd have lower temperatures with a uni-directional airflow and either a positive or negative internal case pressure, depending on the outside ambient temperature and your intake/exhaust configuration. I mean, don't take my word for it, there's about 40 years of HVAC research to back it up, not to mention tonnns of data from the launch of Intel's BTX form factor a few years ago.

Quote :

"-Yeah those new designs are already being used though aren't they? Like the aluminum/polymer mixes in aerospace application, defense stuff, and i guess mostly commercial stuff. "

Yea, they are fucking sweet too, and RETARDEDLY expensive. It's going to be a loong time until we see an application like that find it's way legitimately into a consumer PC product.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:29 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 12:28:18 AM

I know about tunneling, i'm actually working for a Mechanical engineering firm this summer doing a little hvac, and i tried to work out the intake/exhaust volumetric flowrates of each fan, and whether the case had a positive or negative pressure. It's my first build, so give me a little credit for trying to do that. Yeah and it's silly to think you can stick fans everywhere and expect the air flow to be efficient.

^ Yeah i haven't had much experience, but i have heard it's all very expensive.

-Oh and i have access to a metal shop all summer and you guys have insipired me, maybe i'll try to build something and be a little more creative with the case building. For my first build i wanted a case i knew would work, so maybe next i'll build something. I'm sure it'll take multiple tries, but everyone's gotta start somewhere.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:47 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 12:33:02 AM

can i ask a slightly related question? (sry for the partial thread hijack kvr123)

so i bought a case fan for the front of my antec case, to suck air into the case.

i plugged the three pin connector onto the motherboard, and when i turn on the pc the fan just twitches. any ideas on how to fix it? maybe those fans run off of 5v and i can run it off of a molex connector...

6/5/2007 12:46:55 AM

^^first build? Ahhhh, I can excuse the ricer-boyness. I think we probably all went through it at some point or another. Lord knows I remember the days of Prospero and I as suitemates doing all kinds of terribly ereet things.

http://www.snotmonkey.com/articles/indepth-airflow-guide-for-pcs/
and the test pc
http://www.snotmonkey.com/articles/windtunnel-pc1/

Check em out. A lot of the data is pretty outdated, and it really needs to be updated to show the merits of a positive net pressure configuration, but it was all written in like 2001/02 and I made the case out of foamboard and hot glue for a total of like 15 bucks. Worked pretty damn well.

If you want to try building a case from aluminum/steel sheet, all you really need is a good metal brake, a shear, a rivet gun and a little tig/mig here and there. if you do some decent cad workups first, it'll make the whole thing a hundred times easier to make.

Also helps to go get some old ass cases at surplus for a few bucks to see the basic methods for rolling and bending sheets for rigidity.

^always use a molex.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:51 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 12:48:43 AM

Yeah sorry for the "ricer-boyness". I guess i did slightly fall into that catagory when i put lights in the case.
-In regard to your test pc, all i can say is wow, and I can see how much of the HVAC stuff i'm learning can go into designing more efficient cases for any type of electronic device. I originally thought that you need much more exhaust than input, to maintain a lower pressure for heat transfer so it all makes sense. Thanks for the links, and i'll look into the case building this summer.

6/5/2007 1:03:34 AM

i burned out some fan haders tryign to run some old mechatronics fans off the MB three pin. Fains arent getting enough power, they twich.

6/5/2007 6:56:15 AM

http://www.coolerguys.com/pca10.html

theres what I spent too much money on when I needed a new one and was tired of all the retarded blingness mine had gathered over the years.

6/5/2007 8:13:43 AM

Antec Nine Hundred
http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=15900

OR

LIAN LI PC-V1000B PLUSII
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112118


But my ricer days are over as well. I now have an Antec Solo and love it's complete silence and sophisticated style.

6/5/2007 11:02:37 AM

I don't even use a case. I just lay all my components out on my desk. This way you can see how cool my computer looks from every angle not just from the side of the window on a case. I even cut a sunroof into my house so airplanes flying overhead could see my utter coolness. I'm debating cutting down the walls on my house because its a disservice to humanity to hide my elite computer from peoples eyes. I was also having some trouble fitting all of my LED's and fluorescent lights (to show off my dyed water cooling system of course) in a normal case and now I don't have that problem. Sure my lights drain more power than my monitor and computer put together but I LOOK SO COOL. KEKE.

6/5/2007 11:35:14 AM

hahahah, gg

on that note, this was my troubleshooting rig for a while:



[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 11:57 AM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 11:56:52 AM

Gonna hijack this real quick, but it might apply to you as well...

What kind of filter is best, and do you need them on all the intakes or just the primary?
I've seen some aluminum ones online and everything claims that they're the best, but is there a particular brand or configuration I should look for?

The case I have has a side-exhaust 80mm, two 80mm in the rear, and a 120mm in the front. I know I need a filter on the intakes, but I'm equally concerned about maintaining good cooling around the my processor and the video card. (Both will be OC'd)

In light of the "wind-tunnel" suggestion, would I be better off WITHOUT a side-exhaust and just bump up the front-to-back cooling?

6/5/2007 12:00:17 PM

^in regards to the filters, it should be all or none, if you don't filter all, then why do some? it's pointless, if you filter all you should look at tape sealing as well where-ever possible, i've had to do this to keep all dust / pet dander out of my case.

in terms of the "type" of filter, the aluminum are nice because you can clean it out with water, and typically will give you the best air flow.. just be sure to get some good quality filters, if the screen is too open it'll be useless, if it's too closed it'll be loud and prohibit air flow

for the 'wind-tunnel' discussion you'll have to experiment, nearly all cases are different, the biggest thing to remember is pressure and flow, as long as you have a defined path of air flow and negative pressure then the temps will drop, without a defined path of travel the air will find places to mix and it won't circulate properly

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 12:10 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 12:08:57 PM

to all those who are suggesting legit cases that fit what i was asking for thanks

to all those that give a shit whether a window means im "showing off" to friends and ladies and bothered posting not to actually help on the thread but just to say how gay and unsofisticated a side panel is... /care

look at you! with your solid non see through side panel! all effecient and understated! so modest you are! i bet you dont even really talk about the stuff you did to it untill someone asked! and you are so right when you talk above someone who does have a side panel! fuck them you know? so gays and whatnot

6/6/2007 6:12:01 PM

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103016

This case would be pretty awesome, for airflow alone.

6/6/2007 7:57:09 PM

nice case, but im going water cooling so i want minimal fans. I do however like the minimal / empty insides

6/6/2007 8:13:56 PM

dipshit, had you even bothered to READ, there are several THERMAL reasons to stay away from the gay ass window. And if you think you are going to get away with "minimal fans" because you are using watercooling, hahahahahahaha you are in for a fuuuun time of overheating.

Watercooling makes for better regulation and slightly lower overall temperatures. In a performance system it is not going to make it any more quiet or energy efficient. You are still going to have to have monster ass fans blowing across that radiator, and some regular case airflow in place to catch the ambient heat.

Not to mention, the combined "haters" in this thread have built hundreds of machines, and probably have a bit of worthwhile knowledge that you could take advantage of.

[Edited on June 6, 2007 at 8:46 PM. Reason : .]

6/6/2007 8:45:13 PM

hrm, nice post


"worthwhile knowledge" im pretty sure throughout this thread from the "haters" has been something along the lines of how they got over their ricer pc days, with maybe 1 or 2 tips on thermal flow.

If you even followed the link to the case that mindstorm suggested you will see that its nothing as to what i described i was looking for in my first post.

Thanks for the explanation of what water cooling is, i wasnt sure, does it really "lower overall temperatures" ?

as far as reduction in fans, switching to a water system obv reduced the number of fans you would need in the machine, i never said i wanted zero, i said i wanted minimal. But you go ahead and take that as in i want way less fans then needed to cool my system / water.

you all obv know what your talking about, but l2read

6/6/2007 9:19:54 PM

you see, you need about the same amount of fans you normally would, because you STILL need airflow through the case. You are just replacing the CPU fan, GPU fan, and maybe Northbridge fan with 3 or 4 LARGER fans that have a net gain in noise.

Dude, I've built a half dozen high performance watercooling systems. They aren't quiet under load, they aren't as quiet as a well built air-cooled system. You will get lower temps or higher overclocks, but either way you are going to get more noise, UNLESS you plan on running it stock, then you might see a slight reduction in noise, but then, why in the world would you be overclocking.

And I'm referring to the transformer-esque retarded, 5 year old Antec ripoff case you posted in the original post.

But really, do what you want, it's your money. I mean, I know I'll get a good chuckle.

6/6/2007 9:45:10 PM

My suggestions for full tower cases, mostly disregarding the request for a window.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156077
It's got a huge fan as well. Air will flow through this thing without a problem, and you could probably pull it off quieter in this case than with other cases.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103012
Fairly classy and industrial looking. At least as far as cases with lights go. You could add a window using a "nibbler" tool to cut out a spot along the top of that side panel, then put in a plexiglass window and put in a rubber seal to keep it looking clean. Good airflow is good in any situation. Quiet good airflow is just awesome.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103011
Same as the one above, only black.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119042

...

Yeah and so on. The ones with huge side fans will be easier to cool the interior of. They shouldn't sound like jet aircraft taking off.

6/6/2007 10:57:04 PM

I seem to agree with kvr123 about neons attitude toward the whole thing. One part of being experienced is not just knowing how to work with computers, but also knowing how to work with people. If you can't help yourself and put down other people then you're truely not experienced. i.e. :

Quote :

"dipshit, had you even bothered to READ, there are several THERMAL reasons to stay away from the gay ass window."

I also believe just because you have a window doesn't mean you're a "ricer" or unexperienced (or gay for that matter in any sense of the word). I know plenty of very experienced hardware euthuthists who decide for some reason they want a window. For future reference i bought my case with a window because it has a 25cm fan on it and i know the thermal disadvantage of the window is overrun by the thermal cooling efficiency of the fan.

Now for anyone who disaggrees i turned off that 25cm fan, and replaced it with a regular aluminum door and all the temp sensors in the case went up 4-5 degrees celcius. I have a digital thermometer and i maintained the ambient room temperature and simply changed doors.

Quote :

"And if you think you are going to get away with "minimal fans" because you are using watercooling, hahahahahahaha you are in for a fuuuun time of overheating"

My last point is, i'm not to experienced with water cooling, but couldn't you put the radiator outside the case (like many water cooled radiators are designed for) and minimize the number of case fans (like kvr123 mentioned). I just took my radiator out of the case and it reduced the system temp. For example i'm running at 48c with load right now (ambient=22c) and taking the radiator out caused the cpu to drop to 45c with full load. (I'm running the smp folding now). Thermodynamically i'm assuming this is because cooler air is blowing across the radiator then when it's inside the case.

Oh and neon no disrespect but i've seen plenty of water cooled systems that use a combination of passive and water cooling that you can hardly hear. It is possible to make a water cooled system that is quieter than air, mainly because you do need less fans and larger fans combined with radiators make for quieter systems.

Quote :

"In a performance system it is not going to make it any more quiet or energy efficient"

Yes a water cooled system CAN be more energy efficient and quieter. I haven't physically tested it myself, but i've seen plenty of set-ups where they test the power draw and acoustics coming from a system, and water cooled systems can be made to be both more energy efficient and quieter. Kinda like a house uses a radiator with a big ass fan, instead of lining the whole house with exhaust fans and intake fans (yes the analogy is rediculous but it's just saying how that type of liquid cooling can be more efficient then a bunch of fans)

Now we can continue to pick fights or we can help pick out a case.

[Edited on June 7, 2007 at 1:00 AM. Reason : .]

6/7/2007 12:31:12 AM

thanks for the links mindstorm!

for the 2nd and 3rd case you suggested and saying "using a nibbler tool" to cut out the side and add my own plexiglass, this is, in fact, exactly what i want to know more about. I have found very clean and simple/nice looking cases that i really would want yet they have no side panel. I was wondering if it would be possible to add my own side panel with still keeping it clean and whatnot, basically w/out making it look like a shit garage job.

could you post more info or link on how to do this? and if so, think i could do that modification to the pb1 or to this case



and to neodata i agree about hte side panel, i straight up like to look at the work ive done into my computer. Specially since this will be my first water job i want to be able to see my work and tinkering with how it looks visiually is half the fun to me. Dont understand all these haters, its like yelling at someone for wearing a hat when the exercise..."you know that hat retains like 40% of your heads thermal, why are you ricing out your head wtf so 90's"

[Edited on June 7, 2007 at 12:52 AM. Reason : .]

6/7/2007 12:51:25 AM

Yeah i'll post some links. You can make as big a window and of whatever shape as you feel comfortable with. This includes cutting the steel, cutting the plexiglass, etc.

http://www.xoxide.com/nibbler.html

Nibbler!

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/2389

Simple how-to, not descriptive.

http://www.directron.com/modwindows.html

Some kits.

You'll really need to google and ask around on a nerdier forum to get more help with a nibbler. Try: http://www.eocf.com Don't forget to post in the right section.

Site I used to be on, they used to be helpful on there (maybe they are now!!).

6/7/2007 1:22:26 AM

If you use a nibbler, or a dremel, it's going to look like a hack job.

the only way to get a good, clean cut is going to be either on an indusrial laser cutter, or with a bandsaw, then come back and grind and sand it smooth and repaint the entire panel.

the option most go for is to use a nibbler/dremel and then use a grommet to overlap the cut, hiding the edge itself. It looks pretty ghetto too IMHO, but its at least clean.

Quote :

"i straight up like to look at the work ive done into my computer. Specially since this will be my first water job i want to be able to see my work and tinkering with how it looks visiually is half the fun to me. Dont understand all these haters, its like yelling at someone for wearing a hat when the exercise..."you know that hat retains like 40% of your heads thermal, why are you ricing out your head wtf so 90's" "

I can absolutely understand wanting to admire the fruits of your labor. Wouldn't that be ON SCREEN though? I have yet to understand what's to admire about plugging in a kit, following the instructions, and turning your computer back on.

I could see if you were milling your own waterblocks, or if there was something actually new or special about it. If you want to look at it, pop the case off. I may be acting like a parent about this, but so far, I haven't come across a single person who has had a windowed case that didn't regret buying it down the road.

Quote :

"Oh and neon no disrespect but i've seen plenty of water cooled systems that use a combination of passive and water cooling that you can hardly hear. It is possible to make a water cooled system that is quieter than air, mainly because you do need less fans and larger fans combined with radiators make for quieter systems. "

As I said, stock for stock, watercooling can be substantially less noisy. But that isn't the application here.

Quote :

" Kinda like a house uses a radiator with a big ass fan, instead of lining the whole house with exhaust fans and intake fans "

One problem with this theory. Noise isn't cumulative. Having 5 fans at 56db is still more quiet than one fan at 65db. And the bigger the fan doesn't necessarily mean less noise, it's just a lower frequency/pitch.



Case recommendations:

Antec P180 (http://www.antec.com/us/productDetails.php?ProdID=81802)
Enermax CS-10182 (http://www.enermaxusa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_24&products_id=45)
Soldam Altium X (http://www3.soldam.co.jp/case/altium-x/index.html their US site is currently being updated)
Lian-Li PC-2100B PLUS II(http://www.lian-li.com/product/product06.php?pr_index=29&cl_index=1&sc_index=2&ss_index=7&type=b)
Lian-Li PC-201B (http://www.lian-li.com/product/product06.php?pr_index=31&cl_index=1&sc_index=2&ss_index=9&type=b)
Chieftec CX-01B-B-SL /CX-01B-SL-B (http://www.chieftec.com/products/Workcolor/CX01.htm the one with the black mesh front, no gay asian lettering, and no gay window looks pretty damn slick)

6/7/2007 1:53:10 AM

Quote :

"Fairly classy and industrial looking. At least as far as cases with lights go. You could add a window using a "nibbler" tool to cut out a spot along the top of that side panel, then put in a plexiglass window and put in a rubber seal to keep it looking clean. Good airflow is good in any situation. Quiet good airflow is just awesome. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811103011 Same as the one above, only black. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119042"

I thought these looked okay until you throw in the glowing blue discs of doom. Who in the fuck thought it would be a good idea to throw two giant worthless fans on the side of a case? They look so damn flimsy, it's a wonder they even move air, much less create any kind of pressure differential.

6/7/2007 2:01:17 AM

call bobby gately

I'm sure he can fabricate you something

http://www.gatelyaudio.com/

6/7/2007 3:21:55 AM

thanks for the info all, cases look jammin

noen, i actually had planned on going to home depot / online and ordering raw parts for my watercooling. I 100% agree that it would be worthless to want to look at the "fruits of my labor" if i had just bought a kite and installed it. But i really wanna do everything manually i can A: to save money and B: to get exactly what im wanting

6/7/2007 8:36:40 AM

^count me slightly wronged then And good luck on it man. If you get a case with optional windowed side panel, please buy both so at least when the time comes you can make it normal again.

^^or he could just go down to plastics and fiberglass and get a sheet of acrylic or PET for cost and pay the 35 bucks to use the craft center and make his own.

6/7/2007 9:23:53 AM