Lets discuss.

What should the penalties be?
What should the penalty be if there is a loss of life?

Personally, I believe

DUI with no loss of life = revoke license for a year and community service, possible jail time if repeat offender

DUI with life loss = revoke license permanently, manslaughter charges

5/20/2007 6:17:39 PM

it's DWI in NC

5/20/2007 6:23:11 PM

AFTER IM DONE HITTING YOUR GRANDMA IM GOING TO POST MYSELF NAKED, COVERED ONLY BY A STOP SIGN.

[Edited on May 20, 2007 at 6:26 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2007 6:26:19 PM

Quote :

"DUI with life loss = revoke license permanently, manslaughter charges"

I don't know about NC, but I do know that in NY a DUI that results in a passenger's death is grounds for vehicular manslaughter. And I did know someone that served about a year in prison because of being found guilty of this (or maybe it was plea bargained down, I don't know the details). I will say that one year in jail isn't enough for any kind of manslaughter.

And don't lock this thread.

5/20/2007 6:31:54 PM

DWI with no loss of life

Is that at a check point? after being pulled over for suspicion? or after an accident?

Should it matter?

5/20/2007 6:32:34 PM

as it currently stands, drunk driving laws are so thoroughly impaired right now, that they need serious fixing. However, in order to do that, would require MADD to shut the fuck up and not bitch about "OMG THE CHILDREN"

Drunk Driving is not the problem it is being made out to be and the courts recognize that.

5/20/2007 6:35:08 PM

I don't think it should matter. a DUI is a DUI (or a DWI is a DWI) regardless.

So you were able to drive just as good as a normal driver while drunk 9 out of 10 times....theres always that chance though where their delayed reactions will hurt someone.

5/20/2007 6:35:22 PM

my problem with drunk driving is that there is no distinction between a .08 and .25. for some people driving while on a cell phone or extremely tired is just as dangerous as a .08 but we dont get as up in arms (some ppl do, but not as much). ive driven before after drinking and subsequently sitting out/drinking water for a while. im a small guy so i very well could have been over the limit, but ive driven much worse while tired. i feel like, for those types of situations, revoking licenses left and right is just as retarded as letting people with 15 dui's off the hook.

5/20/2007 6:36:38 PM

Quote :

"Drunk Driving is not the problem it is being made out to be and the courts recognize that."

What is it being made out to be? Why is that wrong? and what kind of problem is it really?

5/20/2007 6:37:26 PM

realistically speaking, it is a minor problem.

It will be entirely impossible to make it not happen, unless we institute real mass transit in the United States of America.

And outside of Urban areas, drunk driving isn't a real problem at all.

5/20/2007 6:41:35 PM

i agree to some extent with nutsmakr. i mean we act like someone who has a .08 is this raging alcoholic baby killer in this country when probably most drinkers have been the car at least once when they might have been at or near that point.

5/20/2007 6:42:11 PM

this post makes no sense now

[Edited on May 20, 2007 at 6:44 PM. Reason : .]

5/20/2007 6:42:57 PM

this is the lounge - keep the chit chat shit there please

5/20/2007 6:43:26 PM

Public Shaming

5/20/2007 7:29:48 PM

Quote :

"drunk driving laws are so thoroughly impaired"

its ok, so are the drivers that break these laws.

5/20/2007 7:37:24 PM

fact is, cars will always kill people. There is no way around it.

You cannot control everyone. You could always have people check in their keys at the bar when they start a tab...and only way to get them back is if someone who blows below the legal limit retrieves them

5/20/2007 7:39:22 PM

would be nice cuz i dont want to drive drunk, but i dont want to be at the bar all night either. i have to make a judgement call at some point.

5/20/2007 8:01:23 PM

if we are going to nanny-state cigarettes and everything else from seatbelts to 4-wheelers it is high time to ban alcohol in pubs... of course most politicians are drunks so it'll never happen.

5/20/2007 8:33:35 PM

who would of ever though a redlight camera would kill someone? Of all the ways to die.......


similiar to the the student that died not too long ago after the flag pole fell over and hit her.....

[Edited on May 20, 2007 at 8:37 PM. Reason : w]

5/20/2007 8:36:19 PM

Quote :

"And outside of Urban areas, drunk driving isn't a real problem at all."

Where in the hell did you get that?

Suburban Texas has a HORRIBLE problem with drunk driving accidents and deaths.

I would argue that it's inside urban areas that it's not really as much of a problem. It's the sprawling cities where it's getting worse and worse.

5/20/2007 8:43:44 PM

Drunk driving is a problem everywhere. Just about everyone seems to have a friend or relative who has died or been seriously injured in an alcohol-related accident.

Now here comes the specious argument from nutsmackr about how cigarettes kill more people or how you cannot stop people from drinking and driving without forming a police state.

The fact is that all drunk driving accidents are preventable. If you don't value human life enough to abstain from drinking and driving, then perhaps you value your freedom enough. Thats why drunk driving laws are as strict as they are.

And yes, I mentioned in the other thread that I have driven drunk countless times. Hopefully I won't do it again. If I do and I get caught, I deserve the full punishment for my actions.

[Edited on May 20, 2007 at 9:00 PM. Reason : 2]

5/20/2007 8:59:52 PM

Quote :

"Drunk driving is a problem everywhere. Just about everyone seems to have a friend or relative who has died or been seriously injured in an alcohol-related accident."

No one I have ever been friends with have been involved in alcohol-related accidents or deaths until Emily. However, I do have a bunch of friends that have had DUI's.

5/20/2007 9:35:18 PM

Don't drink and drive and don't drink and get in a car of a drunk driver.

I just never drink to get smashed, buzzed or tipsy but its not my thing. I always volunteer to be DD, this way its stops me from drinking and I know that the saftey of my friends is secured and thats worth every night of not drinking. Sounds sappy but I have loved all my friends enough to sacrafice me drinking every single time. If I really want to drink, I make sure someone else stays sober and they do since I dd for them a lot.

5/20/2007 10:06:25 PM

i think the laws need revision because a .08 for one person means something entirely different than a .08 for another person.

5/20/2007 10:29:45 PM

whats the difference between driving under the influence and speeding significantly over the speed limit, besides of course that speeding (excessively) is so much more common

its still wreckless endangerment, yet it seems to be treated differently

5/20/2007 10:41:05 PM

Quote :

"Don't drink and drive and don't drink and get in a car of a drunk driver. "

Problem solved

5/20/2007 10:48:32 PM

I think anyone who's had a DUI should have their plates changed to flourescent pink for 2 years.... the embarrasment alone would do wonders

5/20/2007 10:50:59 PM

Quote :

"whats the difference between driving under the influence and speeding significantly over the speed limit, besides of course that speeding (excessively) is so much more common its still wreckless endangerment, yet it seems to be treated differently"

I disagree... if your doing >100 and you wreck and kill somebody you would face the same manslaughter charges... the fact that you did it sober would probably get you SOME leniency but you still took somebody elses life into your hands... I cry thinking about how easily a recent accident could have gone this same way if just small things were different... Its been 4months and I drive like a freaking grandma now... but I'm definitely haunted by it all and it puts perspective on things. I thank God every time I think about it too.

DWI: I'm very glad that I live downtown and haven't had to drive to a bar in a year...

I don't entirely agree with the .08 system, b/c it really does screw certain people over, like if you had a 1 beer right before you left and it was on your breath... life isn't a game and it shouldn't be toyed with by getting behind the wheel after heavy drinking. I know my limits and I've become a LOT more cautious when I'm meeting friends at a bar.

Responsibility is responsibility and life is precious, even more so when somebody else trusts you with theirs... I apologize for the somewhat incoherant thoughts, its a very emotional topic and its difficult to sort it all out sometimes.

5/20/2007 11:04:03 PM

^^Thats actually a pretty good idea.

Cops would target them, though (not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing)

[Edited on May 20, 2007 at 11:05 PM. Reason : 2]

5/20/2007 11:04:24 PM

I don't have a friend or relative who has died or been seriously injured in a drunk driving accident.

I think drunk driving is pervasive but not as serious as folks at MADD want us to believe. By pervasive I mean lots of people do it, and it's not a certain "kind" of person who does it.

I can't remember the average number of drunk drivers that go unticketed per each person who gets a DUI, but it's a lot. If we really want to decrease drunk driving, without making any major changes to our society, we'd have to have tons and tons of checkpoints. I don't think we freedom-loving cowboys are ready to accept that though.

And, Smath74 is right--for a lot of people, .08 ain't shit. So I think we should rely more on the field test (touch your nose, walk the line, etc...) than we do now.

I also think we should encourage walking--well-lit sidewalks everywhere! Mass transit is something we need to think about, as well.

And lastly, I want more neighborhood bars. I know the cool kids want to go to an area where they can barhop and whatnot, but there are plenty of folks that would appreciate a place where they can knock back a few cold ones Friday night. Or are we still pretending we don't drink here in NC?

[Edited on May 20, 2007 at 11:06 PM. Reason : sss]

5/20/2007 11:04:34 PM

Quote :

"Cops would target them, though (not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing)"

If they aren't doing anything wrong, they don't have anything to worry about - do they?

Same goes for speeding, DUI, or anything related... When you follow the laws, there are usually very few problems.

5/20/2007 11:12:40 PM

^I like that idea, its true and those are the people that need to be targeted that would be a part of the punishment.

[Edited on May 20, 2007 at 11:40 PM. Reason : I dunno about the same .08 for everyone b/c it doesn't work.]

5/20/2007 11:40:16 PM

Quote :

" Where in the hell did you get that? Suburban Texas has a HORRIBLE problem with drunk driving accidents and deaths. I would argue that it's inside urban areas that it's not really as much of a problem. It's the sprawling cities where it's getting worse and worse."

It has to do with population density and the number of automobiles on the roadways. In an urban setting, you'll have more cars, hence the problem of drunk driving increases. In a rural setting, less automobiles. And in an rural setting the odds of an innocent bystander being injured due to drunk driving decreases.

Besides, more than likely, the majority of automobiles being driven late at night on a friday or saturday will be driven by an impaired driver.

You just hear about the drunk drivers more than you do the sober ones who cause accidents.

Quote :

"The fact is that all drunk driving accidents are preventable. If you don't value human life enough to abstain from drinking and driving, then perhaps you value your freedom enough. Thats why drunk driving laws are as strict as they are."

by that argument, all accidents are avoidable. As a society, we've taken a realitively minor problem and have turned it into a massive problem. Drunk driving laws are far too draconian to have a legitimate effect on society.

[Edited on May 21, 2007 at 12:42 AM. Reason : .]

5/21/2007 12:38:47 AM

Quote :

"If they aren't doing anything wrong, they don't have anything to worry about - do they? "

this type of thinking is flawed

5/21/2007 1:36:34 AM

to me, drunk driving laws can not be strict enough.

5/21/2007 4:46:24 AM

Quote :

"And outside of Urban areas, drunk driving isn't a real problem at all."

You've never been to catawba county have you?

Quote :

"whats the difference between driving under the influence and speeding significantly over the speed limit, besides of course that speeding (excessively) is so much more common its still wreckless endangerment, yet it seems to be treated differently "

You can lose your license for speeding too much over the limit

[Edited on May 21, 2007 at 8:54 AM. Reason : ]

5/21/2007 8:49:31 AM

^^I agree. I've been personally affected by drunk drivers and it's a reminder to me everyday that there's a bigger problem going on out there than just finding a cab or a DD.

[Edited on May 21, 2007 at 8:53 AM. Reason : ]

5/21/2007 8:52:43 AM

The moment you lose a friend from drunk driving, whether they are the driver or not, your opinion on drunk driving changes. It goes from the "not that big of a problem" to "damn huge problem"

It's kinda like cancer, don't think it can't happen to you, sometime in your life time you will probably know someone who has died or who has been seriously damaged from drunk driving, it could even be you.

Not saying be paranoid, but think twice before you want to leave the bar driving or you hop in a car with someone who could be drunk.

[Edited on May 21, 2007 at 9:04 AM. Reason : ]

5/21/2007 9:03:59 AM

Quote :

"The moment you lose a friend from drunk driving, whether they are the driver or not, your opinion on drunk driving changes. It goes from the "not that big of a problem" to "damn huge problem" It's kinda like cancer, don't think it can't happen to you, sometime in your life time you will probably know someone who has died or who has been seriously damaged from drunk driving, it could even be you."

That's bullshit. I've lost friends to many things. That doesn't mean i'm going to irrationally start claiming something that is not a big problem is a big problem.

And to the person who brought up catawba county, it doesn't have that big of a DWI problem.

5/21/2007 9:57:10 AM

Quote :

"You can lose your license for speeding too much over the limit"

I dunno. Have any of you seen stuff on the N&O lately on how many ppl are getting away with major speeding violations??

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/growth/traffic/speed/

5/21/2007 10:42:46 AM

Quote :

" probably most drinkers have been the car at least once when they might have been at or near that point."

speak for yourself

I have never gotten behind the wheel after having more than 1 drink.

However, being a bartender, I see the retards who hit the roads after having more than 1.
I would LOVE it if bars could check car keys at the door (like a coat check) and you'd have to blow below to get them back but there's no way to know if they turn them in or if they have spare on them. Not that the fault falls entirely on the bars, but I wish we could do something to curb drunk driving. (other than cutting people off)
We used to have a breathalizer in my bar that was for fun.
I've stopped many many bar guests from getting behind the wheel. even when it took buying them a cab or driving them home myself ( if i knew them (regulars))

it's not macho or cool to think you can do it. it's just not worth it. go sleep in your car in the parking lot or call a friend/cab.
I hate people who brag about the times they've done it and made it home safely. I wish I could kick the living daylights out of you or put you behind bars - something to give you a wake up call.
you're an idiot. maybe you don't value your life but I sure as hell value mine.

i hate driving home after bartending - i've had drunk drivers swerve into my lane too many times to count. The license plates I could make out - I called the cops and I hope they were pulled over or at least given a visit.


Back to the topic - I think the laws are too lenient. I've known people who have gotten DUI's and still get behind the wheel. Some people never learn... and they won't until we make the laws stricter. we need more checkpoints around bars and campuses. More cops outside of bars and in parking lots. Cheaper cab fares (*incentives). Make it standard to have to blow into a breathalizer to start a vehicle.


i realize i'm talking to a bunch of college students (mostly male at that) so no one will agree with me but try seeing things from the other side of the bartop.

5/21/2007 11:07:50 AM

Quote :

"Drunk driving laws are far too draconian to have a legitimate effect on society."

Bullshit. Lets look at the statistics, shall we?

Quote :

" This is a chart of auto fatalities per year Total fatalities Alcohol related fatalities Year Number Number Percent 1982 43,945 26,173 60 1983 42,589 24,635 58 1984 44,257 24,762 56 1985 43,825 23,167 53 1986 46,087 25,017 54 1987 46,390 24,094 52 1988 47,087 23,833 51 1989 45,582 22,424 49 1990 44,599 22,587 51 1991 41,508 20,159 49 1992 39,250 18,290 47 1993 40,150 17,908 45 1994 40,716 17,308 43 1995 41,817 17,732 42 1996 42,065 17,749 42 1997 42,013 16,711 40 1998 41,501 16,673 40 1999 41,717 16,572 40 2000 41,945 17,380 41 2001 42,196 17,400 41 2002 43,005 17,524 41 2003 42,643 17,013 40 2004 42,518 16,919 39 2005 43,443 16,885 39 "

The percentage of alcohol-related fatalities in auto accidents has dropped markedly over the last 25 years, which coincides with increasingly tougher penalties and stricter enforcement on DUI / DWI laws.

[Edited on May 21, 2007 at 11:26 AM. Reason : 2]

5/21/2007 11:08:04 AM

I think it is retarded how someone riding there bicycle while intoxicated face the same "DUI" penalties as someone barreling down the road 80 mph after getting smashed at the bar. I could see a "public intoxication" charge as appropriate.

I saw a kid get a DUI this weekend in wrightsville beach while riding their bike drunk. It almost creates more incentive to get behind the wheel. Why ride your bike ( which is far less dangerous) when you can get in your car. Since your chances of being seen by a cop are a lot higher in a 20 min bike ride then say a 5 min car ride.

5/21/2007 11:24:14 AM

i would be in favor of stricter laws if the dui laws required proving impairment as well, not just using a number to define what drunk is.

5/21/2007 11:31:52 AM

^ yeah i agree.

i think there is a big difference between someone who has a 0.09 BAC and someone completly wasted driving with a 0.2. On the other hand you can have a very inexperienced drinker who is a complete hazard on the road with only a 0.05 and a hard core alcoholic who is barely even effected by having a 0.1. I do not disagree with punishments but i think the judicial process should consider a lot more factors then just an arbitrary number.

[Edited on May 21, 2007 at 11:35 AM. Reason : ;]

5/21/2007 11:33:59 AM

oh and people getting DUIs on bikes is exactly why I think MADD is retarded, theyre using hysteria to get people to support laws which they know are ridiculous.

theyve gotten so powerful politicians can't really go against them either.

5/21/2007 11:39:02 AM

I don't know if this has been posted or not, because I didn't want to read this whole thread. The problem with revoking licenses is that people don't care. I know plenty of people who has revoked licenses and still drive. There is not a penalty, other than jail time, that is going to stop someone from driving. Therefore, it will continue, because putting someone in jail for the rest of their life for a DWI is most definitely cruel and unusual punishment. This will be a lifelong debate until technology is developed that insures that the person driving is sober. (In car breatalyzers do not work, simply because another person can blow in it and the drunk person can drive off).

As far as a DWI that takes a life...I'd say a mandatory 10 year minimum.

5/21/2007 12:26:02 PM

interesting statistics from wikipedia:

Quote :

" The following list of DUI symptoms, from a publication issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (DOT HS-805-711),[3] is widely used in training officers to detect drunk drivers. After each symptom is a percentage figure which, according to NHTSA, indicates the statistical chances through research, that a driver is over the legal limit. Turning with wide radius 65 Straddling center or lane marker 65 Appearing to be drunk 60 Almost striking object or vehicle 60 Weaving 60 Driving on other than designated roadway 55 Swerving 55 Slow speed (more than 10mph below limit) 50 Stopping (without cause) in traffic lane 50 Drifting 50 Following too closely 45 Tires on center or land marker 45 Braking erratically 45 Driving into opposing or crossing traffic 45 Signaling inconsistent with driving actions 40 Stopping inappropriately (other than in lane) 35 Turning abruptly or illegally 35 Accelerating or decelerating rapidly 30 Headlights off 30 "

Makes ya realize how many drivers are probably impaired on the roadway. Then again I go to bars alot and can see it happening first hand so it's no suprise.

5/21/2007 1:27:30 PM

Quote :

"It has to do with population density and the number of automobiles on the roadways. In an urban setting, you'll have more cars, hence the problem of drunk driving increases."

But in urban settings almost nobody drives to bars. They use public transportation. Saying its a bigger problem in a truly urban setting is retarded.

5/21/2007 1:39:38 PM

Quote :

"interesting statistics from wikipedia: Quote : " The following list of DUI symptoms, from a publication issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (DOT HS-805-711),[3] is widely used in training officers to detect drunk drivers. After each symptom is a percentage figure which, according to NHTSA, indicates the statistical chances through research, that a driver is over the legal limit. Turning with wide radius 65 Straddling center or lane marker 65 Appearing to be drunk 60 Almost striking object or vehicle 60 Weaving 60 Driving on other than designated roadway 55 Swerving 55 Slow speed (more than 10mph below limit) 50 Stopping (without cause) in traffic lane 50 Drifting 50 Following too closely 45 Tires on center or land marker 45 Braking erratically 45 Driving into opposing or crossing traffic 45 Signaling inconsistent with driving actions 40 Stopping inappropriately (other than in lane) 35 Turning abruptly or illegally 35 Accelerating or decelerating rapidly 30 Headlights off 30 " Makes ya realize how many drivers are probably impaired on the roadway. Then again I go to bars alot and can see it happening first hand so it's no suprise."

any possibility there's a lot of bs in these numbers?

5/21/2007 2:21:46 PM